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Total battery discharge

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Anonymous
June 15, 2005 11:22:27 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

A year or so ago I recall reading in the forums about this happening
to others, but I think today was the first time it bit me. On
returning to my cradled iPAQ 2210 today, it was OFF, and nothing would
get it back. I fiddled around, removed and replaced battery, switched
from cradle to 'direct' charger connection, and somehow it started up
again. Had to restore of course, but I had my latest Sprite backup on
CF card so that was easy enough.

One immediate puzzle is how this can happen while PPC is cradled, and
hence getting AC power? I suspect it's the same reason I sometimes see
'Not Connected', when PPC is in cradle, i.e. some sort of faulty
connection or some confused software.

Anyway, when I finally got started, up popped the obvious cause of the
discharge: a non-dismissed Reminder (from SPB Pocket Plus). I'd gone
out earlier than planned (without PPC) to a dentist appointment, and
so hadn't been around when the reminder came up.

But that is supposed to be prevented by the WM2003 Power settings.
Under 'On Battery Power' I have checked the option 'Turn Off Device if
not used for' = 3 mins.

Also, in Pocket Plus settings for Repeating Alarms, I have 'Stop when
battery' = 10%

So, with both restrictions in place, can anyone suggest why the
battery still discharged please?

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 3:28:38 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Terry Pinnell wrote:
> A year or so ago I recall reading in the forums about this happening
> to others, but I think today was the first time it bit me. On
> returning to my cradled iPAQ 2210 today, it was OFF, and nothing would
> get it back. I fiddled around, removed and replaced battery, switched
> from cradle to 'direct' charger connection, and somehow it started up
> again. Had to restore of course, but I had my latest Sprite backup on
> CF card so that was easy enough.

Unfortunately, I can't tell you why this happened, but I can tell you
that your timing is great. I have had a 2215 for about 1.5 years and
this just happened to me the other day. The only difference is that
mine was not in the cradle when it happened. In fact, I had charged it
all night long, took it out in the morning (had 100% on the indicator)
and by early afternoon is was stone cold dead. So dead, in fact, that I
thought the whole unit had died or the screen had died.

On a hope and a prayer, I plugged it back into the cradle when I got
home later and it immediately came back to life. The main battery was
at 0%, but the backup had held long enough to retain everything. I did
another full charge and it has been holding just fine much like it has
for the past 1.5 years.

There is only one thing that I have done differently with this unit
recently -- used a Sandisk 128MB Wi Fi Connect Plus card. The morning,
that this happened, right after I pulled the unit from the cradle, I
plugged the Wi Fi card into the unit and did some stuff with it. Then,
I removed the Wi Fi, turned the unit off and took it to work with me. I
am not sure if there was some bug in the driver for the Wi Fi card
(which I had to d/l from Sandisk's web site) or if there was some
hardware issue that caused the Ipaq to continue to draw full power from
the battery even though the unit appeared to be turned off.

I do know that there was some issues with Ipaq and SD cards drawing more
power than they should, but it was supposedly fixed with the latest ROM
for these units. Further, my Wi Fi card is CF not SD -- so I doubt that
it was the same issue.

I do hope that someone answers your original post, however, as I would
like to get some insight as to what happened with my unit as well.

Regards...

Mike T
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 3:28:39 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

I can't give you a for sure, but I'm sure you've encountered a device
lockup, where no input is accepted and you can't even turn the thing off.
All you can do is a reset. If something similar happens when it is up with a
reminder, that could most certainly prevent the routine that shuts the
device down from working. You've likely seen something run amuck on your
desktop too that pegs the processor at 100% utilization and doesn't let
anything else run, or if it does, it runs slooow. I can believe that if you
get the right combination of bad things happening, processor pegged,
backlight full, alarm lights flashing or fixed, you could be using more
power than even the cradle is supplying. Most of the time when in the cradle
and charging the units are pretty idle. It happens to all of us sooner or
later, which is why backups are mentioned so often. If it happens once a
year consider yourself lucky. If it happens once a month, start looking for
a cause, generally a less than cooperative program.

--
Sven
MVP - Mobile Devices
"Mike T." <mbtins_nojunk@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:GWnse.1716$aa2.993@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
> Terry Pinnell wrote:
>> A year or so ago I recall reading in the forums about this happening
>> to others, but I think today was the first time it bit me. On
>> returning to my cradled iPAQ 2210 today, it was OFF, and nothing would
>> get it back. I fiddled around, removed and replaced battery, switched
>> from cradle to 'direct' charger connection, and somehow it started up
>> again. Had to restore of course, but I had my latest Sprite backup on
>> CF card so that was easy enough.
>
> Unfortunately, I can't tell you why this happened, but I can tell you that
> your timing is great. I have had a 2215 for about 1.5 years and this just
> happened to me the other day. The only difference is that mine was not in
> the cradle when it happened. In fact, I had charged it all night long,
> took it out in the morning (had 100% on the indicator) and by early
> afternoon is was stone cold dead. So dead, in fact, that I thought the
> whole unit had died or the screen had died.
>
> On a hope and a prayer, I plugged it back into the cradle when I got home
> later and it immediately came back to life. The main battery was at 0%,
> but the backup had held long enough to retain everything. I did another
> full charge and it has been holding just fine much like it has for the
> past 1.5 years.
>
> There is only one thing that I have done differently with this unit
> recently -- used a Sandisk 128MB Wi Fi Connect Plus card. The morning,
> that this happened, right after I pulled the unit from the cradle, I
> plugged the Wi Fi card into the unit and did some stuff with it. Then, I
> removed the Wi Fi, turned the unit off and took it to work with me. I am
> not sure if there was some bug in the driver for the Wi Fi card (which I
> had to d/l from Sandisk's web site) or if there was some hardware issue
> that caused the Ipaq to continue to draw full power from the battery even
> though the unit appeared to be turned off.
>
> I do know that there was some issues with Ipaq and SD cards drawing more
> power than they should, but it was supposedly fixed with the latest ROM
> for these units. Further, my Wi Fi card is CF not SD -- so I doubt that
> it was the same issue.
>
> I do hope that someone answers your original post, however, as I would
> like to get some insight as to what happened with my unit as well.
>
> Regards...
>
> Mike T
Related resources
June 17, 2005 11:34:42 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Terry Pinnell wrote:
> So, with both restrictions in place, can anyone suggest why the
> battery still discharged please?


I think maybe your mains lead wasn't in the stand's socket correctly,
even then if you only left it for a few hours it shouldn't be so low. I
guess like I now do, you will backup on every sync from now on..!

So much for having a backup battery! I swear its just for show.
I now backup daily, because a few weeks back when my PDA crashed for the
50th time that day, I got p*ssed off with pressing the reset button and
just took the battery out the back (thinking, like a mobile phone it
would just reset).

Well, bad idea! The backup battery did nothing at all, and I lost all
the data. So if any of you thought the backup battery in your PDA would
save you on such occasions, don't rely on it.

--
Marc
See http://www.imarc.co.uk/ for contact details.
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 12:55:02 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

"Sven" <sejohannsen@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I can't give you a for sure, but I'm sure you've encountered a device
>lockup, where no input is accepted and you can't even turn the thing off.
>All you can do is a reset. If something similar happens when it is up with a
>reminder, that could most certainly prevent the routine that shuts the
>device down from working. You've likely seen something run amuck on your
>desktop too that pegs the processor at 100% utilization and doesn't let
>anything else run, or if it does, it runs slooow. I can believe that if you
>get the right combination of bad things happening, processor pegged,
>backlight full, alarm lights flashing or fixed, you could be using more
>power than even the cradle is supplying. Most of the time when in the cradle
>and charging the units are pretty idle. It happens to all of us sooner or
>later, which is why backups are mentioned so often. If it happens once a
>year consider yourself lucky. If it happens once a month, start looking for
>a cause, generally a less than cooperative program.

Thanks, that seems a reasonable explanation.

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK
Using iPAQ 2210 with WM2003.
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 2:56:00 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Something else is wrong. That is exactly what the backup battery is for. It
is not really to hold your data for a day with the main battery dead, it is
more to allow you to get to a charger within a half hour to an hour usually,
or to swap in a new battery. If yours hard resets when removing the battery
waiting ten seconds and putting it back, there's a problem.

Mobile phones incidentally are radically different. Typically you can leave
the battery out indefinitely and recover. The storage in them is typically
non-volatile. That is also true of Windows Mobile Smartphones, and the
memory architecture for WM 2005 allows that for PPCs as well.

--
Sven
MVP - Mobile Devices
"Marc" <see@signature.url> wrote in message
news:1119033288.72464.0@doris.uk.clara.net...
> Terry Pinnell wrote:
>> So, with both restrictions in place, can anyone suggest why the
>> battery still discharged please?
>
>
> I think maybe your mains lead wasn't in the stand's socket correctly, even
> then if you only left it for a few hours it shouldn't be so low. I guess
> like I now do, you will backup on every sync from now on..!
>
> So much for having a backup battery! I swear its just for show.
> I now backup daily, because a few weeks back when my PDA crashed for the
> 50th time that day, I got p*ssed off with pressing the reset button and
> just took the battery out the back (thinking, like a mobile phone it would
> just reset).
>
> Well, bad idea! The backup battery did nothing at all, and I lost all the
> data. So if any of you thought the backup battery in your PDA would save
> you on such occasions, don't rely on it.
>
> --
> Marc
> See http://www.imarc.co.uk/ for contact details.
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 5:01:35 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Sven wrote:

>
> Mobile phones incidentally are radically different. Typically you can leave
> the battery out indefinitely and recover. The storage in them is typically
> non-volatile. That is also true of Windows Mobile Smartphones, and the
> memory architecture for WM 2005 allows that for PPCs as well.
>

With the price of flash coming down more and more every day, I don't see
why just about all PDA manufacturers aren't moving to NV RAM in all of
their devices. If they did this, the whole issue of lost data and dead
batteries would be moot.

Also, I think the public's perception of their reliability would go way
up as well. I'm an electrical engineer, so I know how these things work
and why they fail the way they do....most folks don't know or appreciate
that. Something as simple as NV RAM in all PDA would restore some
confidence in these devices.

Of course, flash is slower than RAM, but for what most of the folks do
on these things, that would hardly be noticeable anyway.

Mike T
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 5:01:36 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

As I said, stay tuned. When these devices came out the price and speed of
NVRAM/Flash Rom wasn't where it is today. A lot of the last batch of PPCs
were designed with a memory complement to take advantage of WM2005's new
architecture. My Dell X50v is one. It has a ROM space of 128M, which is
currently divided into the OEM ROM space of about 35M and the rest is left
for me to use as a sort of hard drive. The 64M RAM is used as file storage
and execution space, split and managed dynamically by the OS. The issue now
is that a great deal of vital info is stored in RAM. When the power goes, it
goes with it. When the Windows Mobile 2005 update is loaded, I'll have
something more like my PC, with a 128M 'disk' that holds the OS, OEM and my
apps, and the vital info. The 64M RAM will be purely execution space. It
should run more efficiently with the increased RAM. and when the power dies
all the info is preserved in the ROM space. It's a significant improvement
that is really possible because of the advances in the hardware technology
over the last few years to make it an affordable option, that will also
provide the desired performance.

--
Sven
MVP - Mobile Devices
"Mike T." <mbtins_nojunk@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:p WUse.5465$on5.5452@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
> With the price of flash coming down more and more every day, I don't see
> why just about all PDA manufacturers aren't moving to NV RAM in all of
> their devices. If they did this, the whole issue of lost data and dead
> batteries would be moot.
>
> Also, I think the public's perception of their reliability would go way up
> as well. I'm an electrical engineer, so I know how these things work and
> why they fail the way they do....most folks don't know or appreciate that.
> Something as simple as NV RAM in all PDA would restore some confidence in
> these devices.
>
> Of course, flash is slower than RAM, but for what most of the folks do on
> these things, that would hardly be noticeable anyway.
>
> Mike T
!