A confused reader's question about Black

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Bouncer wrote:
>
> I spent much of this afternoon listening to a salesman at a BestBuy
> telling me about the advantages of each of the fine sets he had for
> sale.
>
> Perhaps someone here can help me sort through the bullshit for the
> nuggets of truth.
>
> Thanks if you can.
>
> Point 1 -- The Plasma's will have the best black of any of the big
> screens.

I'll bet big screen excludes the 34" HiDef CRTs.. cause
CRTs have superb blacks.... I favor Sony CRTs...


>
> Observation. Many of the other sets looked damned fine, too. Is it
> just that they didn't tweak the plasmas to be wonderful, or perhaps
> are they all so close that the average video viewer wouldn't be able
> to tell a difference (sort of like the old audiophiles saying they
> could tell a moving magnet coil on their turntable, while I couldn't
> perceive the difference?)
>
> Point 2 -- The JVC lcos type set is very good, and without the smear
> effect that motion seems to produce on dlp's and lcd's.
>
> Observation. I could not see the effect I've read about here, but
> perhaps it was the choice of the demo feeds they had to make it look
> good. Or, are the third generation dlp's and the lcos on pretty equal
> ground now?
>
> Point 3 -- All the plasmas will have a better viewing angle than any
> of the dlps, projection lcd's and so on.
>
> Observation -- perhaps by a bit, but again they all looked pretty
> good.
>
> Point 4 -- All the newer, expensive sets are good so no matter where
> you drop your $3000, most everyone will be satisfied, so go ahead,
> pick one out and go from there.

Plasma sets under ~$4000 usually are not Hi Def TVs (1080i)
but rather a lesser quality Ext Def which is 480p...
Sets $4200 and up will usually be of Hi Def quality..

Plasmas TVs are at a premium price... They Should require a
longer term warranty... They are hard & expensive to fix...



> Observation -- I dunno, but that kind of cash isn't chicken feed for
> me, so I need to choose the best I can, since I'm going to have it
> awhile.
>
> Final Point -- even if you have your own video setup disk and have
> done it with the tube you have, you'd better leave the delivery and
> setup of this type of set to our installation pros (for a price, of
> course, and I can't take it home with me right now).
>
> What about this comment?
>
> Well, thanks for any comments on these items. I sincerely appreciate
> it.

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Bouncer (humz@alot.net) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> Point 1 -- The Plasma's will have the best black of any of the big
> screens.

CRT-based sets (either direct-view or rear-projection) have the best and
most accurate display of blacks.

> Point 4 -- All the newer, expensive sets are good so no matter where
> you drop your $3000, most everyone will be satisfied, so go ahead,
> pick one out and go from there.

This is just plain wrong. The difference in all sorts of quality (both
picture and build) in the $2500-$3500 display range is huge. Yes, they
*all* look far better than SD-only sets, but that's not hard to do.

> Final Point -- even if you have your own video setup disk and have
> done it with the tube you have, you'd better leave the delivery and
> setup of this type of set to our installation pros (for a price, of
> course, and I can't take it home with me right now).
>
> What about this comment?

More nonsense. Delivery is your call...if the set isn't too big/heavy
and you want to do it yourself, that's fine. If delivery is free, then,
sure, let them do it.

But, 99% of delivery people *cannot* set up a display for anything more
than basic use, and *none* of them will calibrate it in any way for free.
Use that DVD (Video Essentials, Avia, etc.) to set it up yourself...follow
the instructions and you *will* get the best picture possible out of
that display.

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SPAM bait: | terrorists blew up the Death Star, killing
AskDOJ@usdoj.gov | thousands. The Rebel Alliance, a fringe group
spam@ftc.gov | of anti-Empire fanatics, has claimed
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| victims."
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Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Alan Figgatt" <afiggatt@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:bYadnTmk17IUtsvcRVn-qA@comcast.com...
> Leonard Caillouet wrote:
> >
> > Allan, where did you get the 60,000 hour number on the Panasonic sets?
> >
> > Leonard
>
> The 60,000 hour number comes from postings on www.avsforum.com. People
> have asked Panasonic what the rated life span is for the current
> generation 6UY (commercial version) and the consumer PD/PX25 versions
> and Panasonic specifically states it as 60,000 hours to half brightness.
> I don't see it in the specs on the website, but it may be the marketing
> dept doesn't see the need to publicize it. Chances are few people will
> ever keep these sets as their main TVs long enough to get anywhere close
> to 60,000 hours given the falling prices and improving displays we will
> see over the next few years.


The reason that I ask is that I have repeatedly asked tech reps at Panasonic
this question and they say that they do not have any published life
expectancy. They have said that their experience is that the numbers will
be much lower than this, probably less than crts. Most of the numbers that
I have seen actually in publication have been from Fujitsu and Zenith, or
simply hearsay from forums.

From what I can tell, these kinds of numbers are very, very optimistic. I
would not expect 60,000 hours out of any CRT, much less a PDP (for 50%
brightness level).

Leonard

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Leonard Caillouet wrote:
> The reason that I ask is that I have repeatedly asked tech reps at Panasonic
> this question and they say that they do not have any published life
> expectancy. They have said that their experience is that the numbers will
> be much lower than this, probably less than crts. Most of the numbers that
> I have seen actually in publication have been from Fujitsu and Zenith, or
> simply hearsay from forums.
>
> From what I can tell, these kinds of numbers are very, very optimistic. I
> would not expect 60,000 hours out of any CRT, much less a PDP (for 50%
> brightness level).
>
> Leonard

Leonard, go to the Panasonic website for the commercial models -
http://catalog2.panasonic.com/weba [...] upId=14624


- which you may notice now has a bunch of new 7UY models, click on one
of the models and then select brochure. You will get a PDF file for
either the 6UY or 7UY models. In the 7UY brochure, on the left hand
column of page 4 it states "panel structure boasts a long service life
of 60,000 hours". In the 6UY brochure, the same statement appears on the
right hand column in page 5. So there is an official source for this.
Given that 60,000 hours is 6.8 years, they are presumably basing this on
extrapolating much shorter duration tests, so yea, take the number with
a pinch of salt - a large pinch of salt.

BTW, I was just looking at the web pages on the 7Uys and they put the
60,000 hour number on there.

Alan

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Alan Figgatt wrote:
> Leonard Caillouet wrote:
>
>> The reason that I ask is that I have repeatedly asked tech reps at
>> Panasonic
>> this question and they say that they do not have any published life
>> expectancy. They have said that their experience is that the numbers
>> will
>> be much lower than this, probably less than crts. Most of the numbers
>> that
>> I have seen actually in publication have been from Fujitsu and Zenith, or
>> simply hearsay from forums.
>>
>> From what I can tell, these kinds of numbers are very, very
>> optimistic. I
>> would not expect 60,000 hours out of any CRT, much less a PDP (for 50%
>> brightness level).
>>
>> Leonard
>
>
> Leonard, go to the Panasonic website for the commercial models -
> http://catalog2.panasonic.com/weba [...] upId=14624
>
>
> - which you may notice now has a bunch of new 7UY models, click on one
> of the models and then select brochure. You will get a PDF file for
> either the 6UY or 7UY models. In the 7UY brochure, on the left hand
> column of page 4 it states "panel structure boasts a long service life
> of 60,000 hours".

Which begs the question: What is "service life"? In my experience with
that term in computer products it means when the device is so dead that
a power cycle will not restart it, not that it has lost 3dB of some
characteristic.

Matthew

--
Thermodynamics and/or Golf for dummies: There is a game
You can't win
You can't break even
You can't get out of the game

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Matthew L. Martin wrote:
>
> Which begs the question: What is "service life"? In my experience with
> that term in computer products it means when the device is so dead that
> a power cycle will not restart it, not that it has lost 3dB of some
> characteristic.
>
> Matthew

In this case, it means "The time until panel brightness is reduced to
half its initial value". So, it is a 3 dB drop in max brightness. Since
most people run their plasmas set at < 50% of max brightness to begin
with, the real issue will likely be a loss of contrast as the screen
approaches its spec service life. But, realistically, what they are
saying is that either the power supply, the control & scalar
electronics, the high voltage components are probably going to fail
before the display screen does. Of course, these are fixable by swapping
in a new part, although if you get a plasma TV and one of these fails 6
years from now, by then you will likely be able to buy a new bigger
better flat screen TV using SED, OLED, LCD, Plasma, whatever, at a much
lower price than what you paid in 2004.

Alan