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Evolving, what good is it?

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Anonymous
March 7, 2005 10:57:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

Just a stupid series of questions maybe, but, I am curious about
something and thought maybe some of you poke-masters could throw a
little wisdom to a beginner.

I understand that waiting on evolving your pokemon allows them to learn
all their natural moves at an earlier level. So, what is the advantage
in evolving? When a pokemon evolves do their stats go up maybe? For
example, would a squirtle with all his moves learned, at Level 53, be as
good as a Blastoise with all his levels learned at 53 (or whatever level
he would learn his last move), I'm just hypothetical guessing for
comparison here?
I guess what I'm asking is if it is better to cancel the evolution every
time, until all moves are learned, and then letting it evolve, or just
let it evolve when it tries? What are the pros and cons of either way?
Thanks.

AstronomerSmith

More about : evolving good

Anonymous
March 7, 2005 12:39:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

"Astronomer Smith" <astronomersmith@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:112on17ot8mkv11@corp.supernews.com...
> Just a stupid series of questions maybe, but, I am curious about something
> and thought maybe some of you poke-masters could throw a little wisdom to
> a beginner.
>
> I understand that waiting on evolving your pokemon allows them to learn
> all their natural moves at an earlier level. So, what is the advantage in
> evolving? When a pokemon evolves do their stats go up maybe? For
> example, would a squirtle with all his moves learned, at Level 53, be as
> good as a Blastoise with all his levels learned at 53 (or whatever level
> he would learn his last move), I'm just hypothetical guessing for
> comparison here?
> I guess what I'm asking is if it is better to cancel the evolution every
> time, until all moves are learned, and then letting it evolve, or just let
> it evolve when it tries? What are the pros and cons of either way?
> Thanks.


In the end, if you keep your Squirtle (mind you it's a bad example) a
Squirtle until it learns it's moves earlier then evolve it and raise it, it
will have about the same stats, depending on EVs from the pokes fought, as
if you had let it evolve at the earliest points and then raised it.

But the Advanced games are different than the Original games. In the
Original games you could max out every stat with Experience points. In the
Advanced games you are limited to 512 Experience Stat points in total for
each poke. This means that there can be much greater variations in stats
for any poke depending on what it fought while it was gaining EVs. Once the
Vitamin Guru's Wife gives your poke it's Effort Ribbon, you can fight
anything because you have reached the 512 EVs allowed.

Mind you Squirtle, and some of the other pokes, learns different moves than
it's evolved forms. Sometimes this means that if you really want a move you
might have to breed for it.

I did this with Shroomish, raising both a male and a female up to level 54
to learn Spore then breeding them to pass the move on to their offspring. I
then raised the offspring, and let it evolve as soon as it wanted to because
it's evolved form learns different moves. If you raise something that knows
False Swipe and can breed with Shroomish, you breed for a male Shroomish
that knows False Swipe, then up to level 54 for Spore, and then breed with a
female Shroomish that knows Spore (level 54) to get a Breloom that knows
Spore and False Swipe and you have a Pokemon catching machine.

So it really depends on why you want to evolve. Sometimes it can take a
very long time for a poke to know the move you want, and if you are trying
for a level 50 team, but want Spore on your Breloom, you have to breed for
it and then raise the offspring.

daramark
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 11:43:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

Whew...this is a lot more complex and deep than I ever thought! I've
gotten two of my little nephews interested in pokemon and I am too, I
have to admit. We've only played the red and yellow, and a little of
the silver games. I just assumed it would be quicker for our pokemon to
learn all the moves, then evolve them.
I've got sapphire, but it sounds a little bit too complicated for six
year olds (or 43 year olds!) I'm encoutering things I have no idea what
to do with. The main reason I started playing it was because a friend
of my nephew has ruby and keeps wanting to battle with us and we can't
with our older games.
Too bad...I keep hearing him bragging that his level 57 Blaziken could
'whip' my 54 Blastoise...ah well, moot point, its a battle that cannot
be. Thanks for the information, daramark, but I may be getting in over
my head with all the complexities and delicacies you mention that I've
never even heard of some!

>
> In the end, if you keep your Squirtle (mind you it's a bad example) a
> Squirtle until it learns it's moves earlier then evolve it and raise it, it
> will have about the same stats, depending on EVs from the pokes fought, as
> if you had let it evolve at the earliest points and then raised it.
>
> But the Advanced games are different than the Original games. In the
> Original games you could max out every stat with Experience points. In the
> Advanced games you are limited to 512 Experience Stat points in total for
> each poke. This means that there can be much greater variations in stats
> for any poke depending on what it fought while it was gaining EVs. Once the
> Vitamin Guru's Wife gives your poke it's Effort Ribbon, you can fight
> anything because you have reached the 512 EVs allowed.
>
> Mind you Squirtle, and some of the other pokes, learns different moves than
> it's evolved forms. Sometimes this means that if you really want a move you
> might have to breed for it.
>
> I did this with Shroomish, raising both a male and a female up to level 54
> to learn Spore then breeding them to pass the move on to their offspring. I
> then raised the offspring, and let it evolve as soon as it wanted to because
> it's evolved form learns different moves. If you raise something that knows
> False Swipe and can breed with Shroomish, you breed for a male Shroomish
> that knows False Swipe, then up to level 54 for Spore, and then breed with a
> female Shroomish that knows Spore (level 54) to get a Breloom that knows
> Spore and False Swipe and you have a Pokemon catching machine.
>
> So it really depends on why you want to evolve. Sometimes it can take a
> very long time for a poke to know the move you want, and if you are trying
> for a level 50 team, but want Spore on your Breloom, you have to breed for
> it and then raise the offspring.
>
> daramark
>
>
Related resources
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 2:44:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

"Astronomer Smith" <astronomersmith@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:112q3tjegthmf59@corp.supernews.com...
>
> Whew...this is a lot more complex and deep than I ever thought! I've
> gotten two of my little nephews interested in pokemon and I am too, I have
> to admit. We've only played the red and yellow, and a little of the
> silver games. I just assumed it would be quicker for our pokemon to learn
> all the moves, then evolve them.
> I've got sapphire, but it sounds a little bit too complicated for six year
> olds (or 43 year olds!) I'm encoutering things I have no idea what to do
> with. The main reason I started playing it was because a friend of my
> nephew has ruby and keeps wanting to battle with us and we can't with our
> older games.
> Too bad...I keep hearing him bragging that his level 57 Blaziken could
> 'whip' my 54 Blastoise...ah well, moot point, its a battle that cannot be.
> Thanks for the information, daramark, but I may be getting in over my head
> with all the complexities and delicacies you mention that I've never even
> heard of some!


It's really not so bad. But then again I am an addict. :)  And I always tend
to learn the moves first and then evolve. It's a holdover from my
Red/Blue/Yellow days.

I doubt that the kid's Blaziken could beat your Blastoise, but I have been
wrong before. If you want to find out you can buy Leaf Green or Fire Red and
raise up a new Blastoise.

For pokedex info as well as other info you can check out www.gamefaqs.com

And remember, this is fun! You are having fun right?
daramark




>> In the end, if you keep your Squirtle (mind you it's a bad example) a
>> Squirtle until it learns it's moves earlier then evolve it and raise it,
>> it will have about the same stats, depending on EVs from the pokes
>> fought, as if you had let it evolve at the earliest points and then
>> raised it.
>>
>> But the Advanced games are different than the Original games. In the
>> Original games you could max out every stat with Experience points. In
>> the Advanced games you are limited to 512 Experience Stat points in total
>> for each poke. This means that there can be much greater variations in
>> stats for any poke depending on what it fought while it was gaining EVs.
>> Once the Vitamin Guru's Wife gives your poke it's Effort Ribbon, you can
>> fight anything because you have reached the 512 EVs allowed.
>>
>> Mind you Squirtle, and some of the other pokes, learns different moves
>> than it's evolved forms. Sometimes this means that if you really want a
>> move you might have to breed for it.
>>
>> I did this with Shroomish, raising both a male and a female up to level
>> 54 to learn Spore then breeding them to pass the move on to their
>> offspring. I then raised the offspring, and let it evolve as soon as it
>> wanted to because it's evolved form learns different moves. If you raise
>> something that knows False Swipe and can breed with Shroomish, you breed
>> for a male Shroomish that knows False Swipe, then up to level 54 for
>> Spore, and then breed with a female Shroomish that knows Spore (level 54)
>> to get a Breloom that knows Spore and False Swipe and you have a Pokemon
>> catching machine.
>>
>> So it really depends on why you want to evolve. Sometimes it can take a
>> very long time for a poke to know the move you want, and if you are
>> trying for a level 50 team, but want Spore on your Breloom, you have to
>> breed for it and then raise the offspring.
>>
>> daramark
>
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 6:01:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

In article <tIZWd.6919$JH1.370627@news20.bellglobal.com>,
daramark <dara.butler@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>"Astronomer Smith" <astronomersmith@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:112on17ot8mkv11@corp.supernews.com...
>> Just a stupid series of questions maybe, but, I am curious about something
>> and thought maybe some of you poke-masters could throw a little wisdom to
>> a beginner.
>>
>> I understand that waiting on evolving your pokemon allows them to learn
>> all their natural moves at an earlier level. So, what is the advantage in
>> evolving? When a pokemon evolves do their stats go up maybe?

Yes. They also can change types, and other features.

For
>> example, would a squirtle with all his moves learned, at Level 53, be as
>> good as a Blastoise with all his levels learned at 53 (or whatever level
>> he would learn his last move), I'm just hypothetical guessing for
>> comparison here?

The Squirtle would be weaker.

>> I guess what I'm asking is if it is better to cancel the evolution every
>> time, until all moves are learned, and then letting it evolve, or just let
>> it evolve when it tries? What are the pros and cons of either way?
>> Thanks.
>
>In the end, if you keep your Squirtle (mind you it's a bad example) a
>Squirtle until it learns it's moves earlier then evolve it and raise it, it
>will have about the same stats, depending on EVs from the pokes fought, as
>if you had let it evolve at the earliest points and then raised it.
>
Right. Either path has the same end result. If you want the evolved
form earlier, you can evolve and get moves later. If you want to
get the moves faster, you can get the moves and then evolve. No
big deal. (Right now, in Leaf Green, I'm trying to decide whether
to evolve a Rhyhorn now, or wait for it to learn Earthquake and then
evolve.)

In Sapphire, when I wanted a L50 Salamence for the Battle Tower,
I kept it as a Bagon until it learned Dragon Claw, then evolved
it, and it became a Salamence at level 50.

>Mind you Squirtle, and some of the other pokes, learns different moves than
>it's evolved forms. Sometimes this means that if you really want a move you
>might have to breed for it.
>
For example, in Ruby/Sapphire, if you evolve a Nincada as soon as you
can, it won't learn False Swipe. If you let it go up to L25 (IIRC),
it does learn False Swipe, and then you can let it evolve and get a
nice fast Ninjask with False Swipe (not to mention Shedinja...).

>I did this with Shroomish, raising both a male and a female up to level 54
>to learn Spore then breeding them to pass the move on to their offspring. I
>then raised the offspring, and let it evolve as soon as it wanted to because
>it's evolved form learns different moves. If you raise something that knows
>False Swipe and can breed with Shroomish, you breed for a male Shroomish
>that knows False Swipe, then up to level 54 for Spore, and then breed with a
>female Shroomish that knows Spore (level 54) to get a Breloom that knows
>Spore and False Swipe and you have a Pokemon catching machine.
>
You can only do that in Ruby. Get a male Zangoose, and raise it to L55
or so until it learns False Swipe. Breed it to a Seedot/Nuzleaf/Shiftry,
get a mail Seedot who knows False Swipe, breed it to a female Shroomish/
Breloom, raise a male offspring to know Spore, breed it to another
female Shroomish/Breloom who knows Spore.

It's a *lot* of work, but boy does it catch fish!


--
David H. Thornley | If you want my opinion, ask.
david@thornley.net | If you don't, flee.
http://www.thornley.net/~thornley/david/ | O-
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 6:01:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

David Thornley wrote:

> In article <tIZWd.6919$JH1.370627@news20.bellglobal.com>,
> daramark <dara.butler@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>>"Astronomer Smith" <astronomersmith@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:112on17ot8mkv11@corp.supernews.com...

>>>example, would a squirtle with all his moves learned, at Level 53, be as
>>>good as a Blastoise with all his levels learned at 53 (or whatever level
>>>he would learn his last move), I'm just hypothetical guessing for
>>>comparison here?
>
>
> The Squirtle would be weaker.

For example (purely made up numbers), a Squirtle at lvl X will have say,
50 Defense. A Blastoise at the same level would have, maybe 75 Defense.
This is ignoring all the experience and different IV stuff.

Like one of the other guys said, if you want to battle a Blastoise
against a Blaziken you need to get Fire Red and or Leaf Green.
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 5:53:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

In article <OeadndmpcetWlbPfRVn-3Q@comcast.com>,
Brion K. Lienhart <brionl@lienhart.name> wrote:
>
>Like one of the other guys said, if you want to battle a Blastoise
>against a Blaziken you need to get Fire Red and or Leaf Green.

Yup. And I'm betting on the Blastoise, given reasonably close levels.
One Surf and it's all over.

I think the biggest advantage I as a player have over the computer is
that I usually can wind up with the type advantage.

--
David H. Thornley | If you want my opinion, ask.
david@thornley.net | If you don't, flee.
http://www.thornley.net/~thornley/david/ | O-
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 10:51:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

I want to thank you guys for all the wonderful information and ideas.

I have started sapphire, and chose Mudkip...I guess I'm partial to Water
and Grass types. Is Bayleaf available in sapphire? I'm hoping to get
my mudkip bigger and stronger and evolved so I can eventually get into a
battle with our friend. But I am in a catch 22...I can't win for
losing. If I lose to the little boy, he'll gloat and brag and be
generally obnoxious with "I told you so!". On the other hand, if I can
beat him, I'll be accused of child abuse by crushing his fragile ego and
perhaps damaging him for life! <grin...I'm just joking here) I can
hear it now..."Look at that old man being mean to that little boy. He
ought to be ashamed of himself!".
Oh well, maybe I won't ever battle him, I can't win.

AstronomerSmith

Brion K. Lienhart wrote:

>> The Squirtle would be weaker.
>
>
> For example (purely made up numbers), a Squirtle at lvl X will have say,
> 50 Defense. A Blastoise at the same level would have, maybe 75 Defense.
> This is ignoring all the experience and different IV stuff.
>
> Like one of the other guys said, if you want to battle a Blastoise
> against a Blaziken you need to get Fire Red and or Leaf Green.
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 7:45:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

Once upon a time daramark decided to write:

> "Astronomer Smith" <astronomersmith@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:112q3tjegthmf59@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> Whew...this is a lot more complex and deep than I ever thought! I've
>> gotten two of my little nephews interested in pokemon and I am too,
>> I have to admit. We've only played the red and yellow, and a little
>> of the silver games. I just assumed it would be quicker for our
>> pokemon to learn all the moves, then evolve them.
>> I've got sapphire, but it sounds a little bit too complicated for
>> six year olds (or 43 year olds!) I'm encoutering things I have no
>> idea what to do with. The main reason I started playing it was
>> because a friend of my nephew has ruby and keeps wanting to battle
>> with us and we can't with our older games.
>> Too bad...I keep hearing him bragging that his level 57 Blaziken
>> could 'whip' my 54 Blastoise...ah well, moot point, its a battle
>> that cannot be. Thanks for the information, daramark, but I may be
>> getting in over my head with all the complexities and delicacies you
>> mention that I've never even heard of some!
>
>
> It's really not so bad. But then again I am an addict. :)  And I
> always tend to learn the moves first and then evolve. It's a
> holdover from my Red/Blue/Yellow days.
>
> I doubt that the kid's Blaziken could beat your Blastoise, but I have
> been wrong before. If you want to find out you can buy Leaf Green or
> Fire Red and raise up a new Blastoise.

Yes, but a level 54 Blastoise on an older game would proably have all maxed
out stats, so it would be a lot stronger than a Blaziken at level 57 anyway.
Personally I like Swampert out of the main new staters best.
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 7:59:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

In article <112tvehmscm19fd@corp.supernews.com>,
Astronomer Smith <astronomersmith@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>I have started sapphire, and chose Mudkip...I guess I'm partial to Water
>and Grass types. Is Bayleaf available in sapphire?

Not as such.

For the current line of games (Ruby/Sapphire/Fire Red/Leaf Green),
the only way to get Bayleef is in the Gamecube game Pokemon
Coliseum. Once you've captured the Bayleef there (and removed
the shadow influence), you can trade it to one of the Gameboy
cartridges and breed it.

The same is true of the other Gold/Silver/Crystal starters and some
other Pokemon.

--
David H. Thornley | If you want my opinion, ask.
david@thornley.net | If you don't, flee.
http://www.thornley.net/~thornley/david/ | O-
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 11:56:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

Aww shoot. I have colosseum, and am playing it too, but I messed up
early on in the game and got Quilava where I could have gotten Bayleaf
in the Phenac city. I like quilava okay, but I didn't realize there
were other options until it was too late. Maybe some other trainers
will have one later on in the game? The only grass pokemon I have so
far is skiploom...kinda boring, except he can sometimes use sleep which
is handy. In that game, I like Misdrevious - she's a real cutey pie!
<grin>
The manual says you can't trade with gameboy until you finish the story
mode, so I guess that is true?

Back to sapphire....Is makuhita worth raising? What about Aron? I'm
not familiar with those, except from the cartoons. Oh, what was this
Sableye I ran into in a cave? Seemed like a ghost type, but I tried 3
times to catch him and finally knocked him out trying to lower his HPs.
I saw...SAW Abra, and he teleported before I could blink!

Sorry....I am rambling....

Astronomersmith

David Thornley wrote:
> In article <112tvehmscm19fd@corp.supernews.com>,
> Astronomer Smith <astronomersmith@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>I have started sapphire, and chose Mudkip...I guess I'm partial to Water
>>and Grass types. Is Bayleaf available in sapphire?
>
>
> Not as such.
>
> For the current line of games (Ruby/Sapphire/Fire Red/Leaf Green),
> the only way to get Bayleef is in the Gamecube game Pokemon
> Coliseum. Once you've captured the Bayleef there (and removed
> the shadow influence), you can trade it to one of the Gameboy
> cartridges and breed it.
>
> The same is true of the other Gold/Silver/Crystal starters and some
> other Pokemon.
>
> --
> David H. Thornley | If you want my opinion, ask.
> david@thornley.net | If you don't, flee.
> http://www.thornley.net/~thornley/david/ | O-
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 11:56:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

Astronomer Smith wrote:

> Aww shoot. I have colosseum, and am playing it too, but I messed up
> early on in the game and got Quilava where I could have gotten Bayleaf
> in the Phenac city. I like quilava okay, but I didn't realize there

You get a chance to catch the other 2 later in the game.

> The manual says you can't trade with gameboy until you finish the story
> mode, so I guess that is true?

Yep.

> Back to sapphire....Is makuhita worth raising? What about Aron? I'm
> not familiar with those, except from the cartoons. Oh, what was this
> Sableye I ran into in a cave? Seemed like a ghost type, but I tried 3
> times to catch him and finally knocked him out trying to lower his HPs.

Sableye is a Ghost/Dark type.
!