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New Water Cooling setup

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March 21, 2007 3:07:29 PM

Pump:Eheim 1048

Radiator:Black Ice Stealth GTS 240

Water Blocks-
CPU:AquaExtreme MP-05 LE or Danger Den TDX or Swiftech Apogee
Northbridge: Swiftech MCW30

Reservoir:T-Line with fill port reservoir or Danger Den Single 5 1/4" Bay Reservoir

Coolant: Fluid XP+ Xtreme

Tubing:10ft Tygon 1/2"

Hose Clamps:15 Plastic Snap Tubing Clamps

(installation will be done in a thermaltake armor case)

This is what i came up with after a little research so let me know if theres anything wrong with it.(First time buying watercooling)

I'm looking for a very quiet and high performance watercooling setup for my cpu and northbridge. I'm not sure about the waterblocks and reservoir yet.How does the aquaextreme flow rate compare to the tdx or apogee?Also would it slow it down if i had a bigger reservoir instead of a t-line and fillport resevoir?Would the swiftech MCW30 work on an asus p5w dh delux motherboard with 975x chipset?I've heard about accelerator plates/nozzles,do u think i need them and if so which one would work best for my setup to acheive the highest flow rate.?

More about : water cooling setup

March 21, 2007 4:06:55 PM

From all the comparisons that I have seen the apogee seems the be the best. That is way I bought one and I have seen my temps drop a few degrees below ambient temp...idling of course. Instead of the Eheim pump check out the DD Mag II, it is quiet and move a very good amount of water. For the liquid I suggest MCT-5 or MCT-40 because it's cheaper and seems to work fine.
March 21, 2007 4:18:05 PM

Quote:
From all the comparisons that I have seen the apogee seems the be the best. That is way I bought one and I have seen my temps drop a few degrees below ambient temp...idling of course. Instead of the Eheim pump check out the DD Mag II, it is quiet and move a very good amount of water. For the liquid I suggest MCT-5 or MCT-40 because it's cheaper and seems to work fine.


Ya i was thinking about getting the mag II but i heard they break pretty easily and after a certain amount of time they get noisy.Also about the mct-5 (which i also wanted),i heard it's really bad to breathe that stuff in,read this on the fluid xp site: http://fluidxp.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=vi...
I don't mind the cost of fluid xp and i'd rather not worry about getting some disease or something from using that.
Related resources
March 21, 2007 5:13:00 PM

Take a look at the Swiftech minires. It is inexpensive, well made, works great and fits just about anywhere. Makes it easire to purge the system if you have a reservoir. The Apogee is a very good block and is easy to work with as is the MCW30.

That set up should be more than enough to cool the NB and CPU. Makes sure those plastic clamps fit the outside diameter of your tubing. There is 1/4" wall tubing and 1/8" wall tubing.
March 21, 2007 5:35:12 PM

Quote:
Take a look at the Swiftech minires. It is inexpensive, well made, works great and fits just about anywhere. Makes it easire to purge the system if you have a reservoir. The Apogee is a very good block and is easy to work with as is the MCW30.

That set up should be more than enough to cool the NB and CPU. Makes sure those plastic clamps fit the outside diameter of your tubing. There is 1/4" wall tubing and 1/8" wall tubing.


ya that reservoir looks nice

I'm still not sure about the cpu block though.I need to have a water block that provides the highest amount of flow and best cooling for the kind of pump i want to get which is not a very powerful one.Which would be the better choice ?- the swiftech apogee gtx or the danger den tdx

Also,how much better would a black ice gtx 360 or Thermochill PA120.3 be compared to the gts 240 (i may watercool my video card in the future)
March 21, 2007 5:51:07 PM

I couldn't really say Chris. I have the plain old Apogee and I'll keep running it till it no longer fits the sockets of rots away. Everyone has their favorites and their are some real venomous fanbois aut there but if you match any of the better blocks to the right tubes and pumps the performance differences are minimal.

If that pump is a low flow then make sure you match it with a low flow block and maybe 3/8" tubing. running 1/2' tubing you may want to get a D5 type pump. Lot's of used ones available over at HardForum for $50 -$55 shipped. That's how I got mine. Either that or write the manufacturers and see what they recommend. BTW, that Apogee GTX is a great looking block? Machined aluminum etc. Not sure i like mixing aluminum and copper in the same loop however.
March 21, 2007 6:08:02 PM

The Apogee GT show a few degrees cooler than the TDX, that's why I went with it.
March 21, 2007 6:11:21 PM

Hey taco, the RBX has been out for years.

So...do you use the store bought hard shell for your tacos or do you fry your own.
March 21, 2007 6:12:49 PM

Quote:
I couldn't really say Chris. I have the plain old Apogee and I'll keep running it till it no longer fits the sockets of rots away. Everyone has their favorites and their are some real venomous fanbois aut there but if you match any of the better blocks to the right tubes and pumps the performance differences are minimal.

If that pump is a low flow then make sure you match it with a low flow block and maybe 3/8" tubing. running 1/2' tubing you may want to get a D5 type pump. Lot's of used ones available over at HardForum for $50 -$55 shipped. That's how I got mine. Either that or write the manufacturers and see what they recommend. BTW, that Apogee GTX is a great looking block? Machined aluminum etc. Not sure i like mixing aluminum and copper in the same loop however.


The problem with getting a high flow pump is finding one thats quiet and i have no way of telling if it is until i actually hear it in my case,some people say the d5 is quiet and others say its noisy and makes a high pitched wine.I can't tolerate those kinds of noises so would u recommend a more powerful eheim?,cause i want something that will give more than enough power for 1/2" tubing and will give the flexibility to add more to my setup ,such as my video card, later on.
March 21, 2007 6:27:25 PM

$5-10 difference for 2-3 degrees. They are both very good blocks and I was very close to going with the TDX for the lucite top, because it looks cool and you can see if it needs maintenance. I just couldn't ignore those few degrees though.
March 21, 2007 6:35:03 PM

The D5 I have is very quiet, just don't run it dry. Run it dry and it hurts the pump (probably why some guys have screeching D5s and others don't). The D4 was pretty loud from what I have heard.

If you plan on including a GPU in that loop then definitely get a strong pump. You'll need the pressure to get everything through the loop with decent flow. You don't want too much flow and you don't want too little, you ned to balance it as best you can keeping in mind that the blocks are designed to work at a certain flow rate. I'm not sure about that $100 pump Taco was showing above as it would be really pushing the liquid and it may be too strong for the blocks to work efficiently.

That rad needs some strong fans, don't go with the quiet ones. It is a thick, dual pass rad and a low speed fan will not ventilate it effectively. You have to push that air through all those fins so match it up with the manufacturer's recommended CFM rating fan. I like those Deltas that Swiftech sells as they are cheap, not obnoxoiusly loud and push some air.
March 21, 2007 10:34:26 PM

I think,after looking at reviews for a while, I've decided on getting the Swiftech MCP655 Pump on newegg for $60

Do u think i should go for the triple radiator incase i add my video card which will be the r600 btw (if it ever decides to come out)?,if so which would be better-the black ice gtx 360 or Thermochill PA120.3,i plan on using 50-65cfm fans.
March 22, 2007 12:40:41 AM

i thought that the MCP655/d5 pump was considered powerful, especially compared to the Eheim 1048 i originally wanted.

950gph?,thats insane,wont that be loud?Its gonna sound like F***** Niagra Falls..lol
March 22, 2007 1:14:13 AM

if i added a peltier how much lower would my temps be? ,how do u install them and what are the risks of using them?
March 22, 2007 1:14:24 AM

I think what he has got planned out is good

and a swiftec micro res is nice or a T line is fine if thats what he wants
March 22, 2007 11:23:09 AM

Peltiers use a lot of electricity and if uncontrolled, and depending on how strong they are, they can cause condensation and frost on the mobo. Depending on the strength of the Peltier you are using you may need to insulate the entire mobo.

There are some models out there, sold as a packaged HSF units, that shut the peltier off 10c above room temp to avoid condensation problems. They seem to work pretty well.

I would recommend you hold off on the Peltier. It is an extreme solution requiring specialized hardware, possibly a secondary PSU and a lot of knowledge. They are also prone to failure. If you go that route then do a lot of research and get an experienced guy to help you out and give you some pointers.

Personally, I would recommend that you get experienced using watercooling and learning all the ins and outs of that before attempting Peltier cooling. If watercooling doesn't give you the performance you want then you can modify down the road and stick a Peltier in the loop. I think what you'll find is that the CPU, on water, will peak long before the temps become an issue.
March 22, 2007 12:18:11 PM

Quote:
Peltiers use a lot of electricity and if uncontrolled, and depending on how strong they are, they can cause condensation and frost on the mobo. Depending on the strength of the Peltier you are using you may need to insulate the entire mobo.

There are some models out there, sold as a packaged HSF units, that shut the peltier off 10c above room temp to avoid condensation problems. They seem to work pretty well.

I would recommend you hold off on the Peltier. It is an extreme solution requiring specialized hardware, possibly a secondary PSU and a lot of knowledge. They are also prone to failure. If you go that route then do a lot of research and get an experienced guy to help you out and give you some pointers.

Personally, I would recommend that you get experienced using watercooling and learning all the ins and outs of that before attempting Peltier cooling. If watercooling doesn't give you the performance you want then you can modify down the road and stick a Peltier in the loop. I think what you'll find is that the CPU, on water, will peak long before the temps become an issue.


ya i agree with you, i can always do that later when i gain the experience,for now i'm just gonna stay with the watercooling.
March 22, 2007 1:35:32 PM

ok,so far I plan on getting a swiftech apogee gt or gtx cpu waterblock,a Swiftech MCW30 chipset waterblock,a thermochill pa 120.3 radiator,fluidxp+xtreme coolant,1/2" tygon tubing,plastic snap tubing clamps,either the Danger Den Single 5 1/4" Bay Reservoir or the swiftech micro res,and i still dont know what to do for the pump.I've heard alot of bad things about the reliability of the hydors and thats definately something i dont want to deal with especially since its my first time doing watercooling.The only things i've ever heard bad about the eheim pumps were that they were big and made a little vibration.If its necessary to get such a powerful pump then i could get the eheim 1260 which is 634 gph.If i decided on getting this how noisy would my computer be?I'm not looking for a dead silent computer,i actually like having some kind of noise as long as its not too loud and its not some kind of annoying sound.also, should i replace some of the plastic fittings that come with the waterblocks/reservoir.If so then what should i buy,just the danger den highflow fittings?
March 22, 2007 2:30:35 PM

One of the great things about the apogee is that it is very effective with a low flow pump. I still recommend the Mag II, it has been working great for me and it is whisper quiet.
March 22, 2007 5:05:18 PM

I'm not gonna go with a high flow pump.Theres almost no advantage accept for making it a few degrees cooler and i want something quiet.I just want to know which pump will work best for my situation(1/2" tubing, a triple radiator,1cpu block,1 nb block,and possibly a video card block in the future).If u had to chose from these in my situation what would you get? the swiftech mcp655(317 GPH),the eheim 1048(158 gph),or the eheim 1250 (317gph).

I found this video of the mcp655/d5 pump on google video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=515005753402140... Can someone verify if this is what this pump actually sounds like at full speed or did this guy just do something wrong,like leave too much air in.

I also found a video on the Hydor L30 II Pump (320gph) which is much quieter and has a much less annoying noise to it then the d5: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-35963259737313...

still cant find anything on the eheim pumps though.
March 22, 2007 7:10:43 PM

That is the 650 pump in the video which is the D4 and yes it was very loud. The 655 is a D5 and it is much quieter. D5 was produced to fix the high noise of the D4. The D5 even has a dial on it to lower the RPMs if there is any noise but I run mine at top speed and it is very quiet. Go to the Swiftecg site and look up 655 for a full explanation. http://www.swiftnets.com
March 22, 2007 10:08:59 PM

Quote:
That is the 650 pump in the video which is the D4 and yes it was very loud. The 655 is a D5 and it is much quieter. D5 was produced to fix the high noise of the D4. The D5 even has a dial on it to lower the RPMs if there is any noise but I run mine at top speed and it is very quiet. Go to the Swiftecg site and look up 655 for a full explanation. http://www.swiftnets.com


ya good thing u pointed that out cause i was gonna stay away from the d5,but i read about the problem they fixed on there website and many other people have said its silent so i'm pretty sure thats the one im gonna get now,i'm gonna be making a big purchase from newegg soon so i'll just buy it then and if i dont like it ,which im pretty sure i will,i can always get a refund.
March 22, 2007 10:35:18 PM

I second FrozenCPU. Incredibly fast shipping, great prices and huge selection. Xoxide is also very good.
March 23, 2007 11:01:25 AM

One thing more about FrozenCPU, besides good prices and an incredible selection, they ship faster than any other e-tailer I have ever used. Every order I have placed with them has shipped ON THE SAME DAY! I've waited two days for Newegg to ship. Xoxide is nearly as good. I use Newegg a lot but I go to the Ox or FrozenCPU if they have what I want.
March 23, 2007 9:40:17 PM

FrozenCPU is an excellent e-tailer. Great choice going DIY.
March 23, 2007 10:10:27 PM

Xoxide is like one big sale. FrozenCPU is the first place I found Noctua stuff so I am sticking there and they have great stuff.
March 23, 2007 10:34:13 PM

Now I just need to find a place in the USA thatsells Aqua Computer and PolarFlo liquid cooling system components. That way when everyone else is upgrading their 8800GTX to an 8900GTX I will be working with my dad's friend who is a blacksmith (incredibly elegant work) to make my liquid cooling setup.

Aqua Computer Aquatube
PolarFlo TT Three Port CPU Block
Custom North Bridge Water Block
Custom South Bridge Water Block
HDD Water Blocks for my Cheetahs
Custom Voltage Regulator Water Block
Dual Aqua Computer 8800GTX Water Blocks
Modified Mini Fridge to house the condensor powered passive chilling.
(The coolant will start at the top of the fridge where a pump sits a\that pumps the coolant through a network of copper coils that are submeresed in liquid (haven't decided what yet) that is constantly cooled by two condensors with a simmilar network of coils except they are on a closed loop. The water then exits the bottom of the (water tight) fridge and is pumped to the case.

Uneccesary? Yes. Uber badass? Yes.
March 23, 2007 10:47:18 PM

Get the dTek FuZion waterblock. In comparisons, it seems to beat out the appogee in a slightly greater amount of benches. Plus, it has the lowest flow restricition of all of the high end blocks.

Radiator, swiftec 2fan or above; thermochill 2fan or above.

Fluid, penatosin G11+ some petrastech Biocide.

Good, respectable watercooling sites:
www.petrastech.com
www.crazypc.com
Both committed to customer satisfaction.
March 23, 2007 11:42:44 PM

I want that radiator cause it looks cool lol. It is just going to be part of the loop. I am a student with 3 jobs to support my computer addiction lol.
March 23, 2007 11:47:23 PM

If you're really worried about sound, one major thing you can do is mechanically isolate the pump from the case. A lot of the annoying noises come from pump vibration being passed along to the big metal case surfaces and resonating. I've seen quite a few interesting setups, one fellow even hung his pumps from the top of the case on strips of rubber. There are, of course, less insane ways to go about this, but if noise becomes an issue, check that pump mounting and see if you can dampen its vibrations. Air in the lines can cause really annoying sounds too, so be sure to purge and have your resovoir up near the top to catch air if its possible.
March 23, 2007 11:56:15 PM

The G7 is awsome but the Razer DeathAdder is... well... a Razer. The DeathAdder is the $hit. I love that fcking mouse.
March 24, 2007 12:27:50 AM

It never, ever, ever misses a single frame.
March 24, 2007 12:28:34 AM

And highschool.
March 24, 2007 12:38:27 AM

They're all good. I love my G5, whereas my brother loves his Adder. Just demo them all if you can and go with what works for you. Don't let the Laser/Optical thing sway you too much, it's primarily marketing. And you'd be hard pressed to notice the difference between 1800 and 2000 dpi.
March 24, 2007 1:31:22 AM

Yea, I dunno, I'm more of a wired guy myself, but that's just preference. Seriously, if you can, just try them out and see which feels most natural for you. They G's are kinda bulky, but I like that. Some people love the way the hand just kinda drapes over the Razers. No matter what, you'll have a good mouse. Newegg had the G5's for only 40 bucks a while back.
March 24, 2007 1:34:21 AM

Will replacing the LED in the mouse affect the performance?
March 24, 2007 2:32:57 AM

You mean the actual optical emitter? Not really. It depends on the surface you're using it on, certain wavelengths will reflect better off certain surfaces etc etc. But it's cheaper and less a pain in the @ss to just replace mousepads.
March 24, 2007 2:40:35 AM

I want to replace the one in my G7 with a pink one...
March 24, 2007 3:17:19 AM

Yeah for radiators i would stick with Danger Den they make some nice stuff. When i built one setup for my old pc the tech guy even emailed me a pdf file with the full blown CAD drawing of there 3x120mm black ice radiator so i could start my mod early that was soooo nice.
March 24, 2007 3:18:25 AM

Quote:
Then go for the 450gph hydor, it's still cheaper than the swiftec anyways, but I don't think it would be that loud, e especially if you have a nice case


Speaking of cases, I got a new case today for my future build. It wasn't what I ordered, unless my finger clicked on the wrong case when ordering from Newegg. That might have happened, twitchy fingers and all that stuff. I had wanted a Thermaltake Armour series, number VA8000BWS, with four fans, two 120mm and two 90mm. What I got was a Eureka VC8000BWA with two 120mm fans, but also with a preassembled mounting for a liquid cooling system. Its also a little deeper and therfore may provide extra space for DX10 video cards.

Not sure whether to send it back or think of it as a blessing in disguise. Now I have the extra space for water cooling if I should go for that, or a least extra space for one of those super large heatsinks; Tuniq Tower, Gemini, or whatever. Bah! Decissions, decissions, keep what I got or trade it back. Air cool or water cool. Still haven't decided what cpu and motherboard to put into it.
March 24, 2007 12:21:53 PM

On the pump: "gph" is not the most important rating on a pump. The rating that you should pay the most attention to is the "maximum head". This will tell you how many vertical feet this particular pump can push the coolant. Even though flow rate is important, your pump needs to be strong enough to push the water up.

On the case: I may seem like a salesman but the CoolerMaster Stacker 83xs are the BEST full tower cases, bar none. The airflow, the asthetics, the quality, the size, the features, everything about them is just the best. They are more than big enough to accomodate a full liquid cooling system and two DX10 cards. I will post the pics of mine when I am done with it.
March 24, 2007 7:11:06 PM

Quote:
I would look into the antec p190 then if I were you, its pricey (well, it's supposed to be anyways), but it's massive, has watercooling ports on it, 4 120mm fans, a 200mm fan, dual psus for up to 1200w, it's deeper and wider than the p180 for bigger dx10 cards, I think you'll like it, but it aint gonna be cheap, but that's going to be the number one full tower to get once it comes out, until then, I'd say it's a tie between the armors with 250mm fans, or the 83x cm stackers


As for the mouse, I like the weighted bulky feel on the logitechs, which is the thing deterring me from getting a razer, I don't like their flat feel, but I can't decide whether I want to put up with the problems of wireless, or give up desk space to wires


Price is a consideration to me, so I was looking at a case in the 150-170 dollar range. Also, I've got this Eureka sitting here now and it would cost $20 or so just to send it back to get the Armor that I wanted. I looked on Anandtech for their case reviews and they said they liked it overall, but then I noticed they tried to say nice things about every case they reviewed, so their review may not mean much.

@ Proof, I liked the looks of Stacker 830, but it seemed like a lot of money for a case. Some cases that I saw that seemed nice were way up in price. Can't really see how they justify $400-500 for a case. Maybe snob appeal, don't know. I've used $100 cases for many years and they did a decent job, so I find it hard to spend lots of money for something that sits on the floor and gets ignored most of the time.
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