For the projector pros out there, need help quick

[fishboi]

Hey guys,

I might be able to get this projector at a reasonable price. Plz take a look and tell me what you think.

GOAL: Hook it up to my PC, and output movies and games onto a wall.

QUESTION: What will the quality look like? I see it has a max res of 1280 x 1024 which seems good. I've never had a projector before. Are they any good for my goals?

http://www.aboutprojectors.com/3M-MP8755-projector.html

Please help quick if you can. TY!

 

[cleeve]

Max res doesn't matter... it's the NATIVE res you're looking at, and this machine has a native res of 1024x768. Which is decent for a projector. Any res higher than that, and it's interpolating.

For movies and games, you'll want a better contrast ratio.

I bought an Optoma EP719 for gaming/movies (and other stuff in an upcoming article) and I'm REALLY happy with it.

DLP is the way to go, much better than LCD in my opinion... DLP has MUCH darker blacks. The projector you listed is 250:1 contrast, wheras my EP719 DLP projector is 2000:1

You should also look for HDCP inputs, so that you can run protected bly-ray or HD DVD movies on it in the future. (which the EP719 also has)

Just remember, you're going to have to be able to control the light in the room to get good results. Ambient light = bad.

 

[pauldh]

I guess my big questions are new or used? and how much?


I'm no guru, but I have a projector that I use for movies, tv, and also gaming. It's been great, especially at the current low prices. The one you are looking at has been out of production for 4 years... a bit old, but very nice in it's day. Is it used? Don't let that retail price fool ya as they have plummetted.

Thing to keep in mind on a used one is how many hours are on the bulb, and bulb replacement cost. You can buy brand new prjectors for as low as $500 now, but they will be native 800x600. That one is native 10x7 and capable of 12x10. You can get new native 10x7 (12x10 capable) projectors with DVI inputs for $750, maybe less. Newer ones might be smaller and quieter too. Just some things to keep in mind, I'd hate for you to buy a $300 used projector to find out it's about to need a $500 lamp. On the spec side, the brightness isn't bad, but the contrast ratio seems very low. Some of the new numbers are inflated bologna, but my little projecor is listed with a 2500:1 contrast ratio. http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Specifications-of-Optoma-Multimedia-Projector-EP-719/sem/rpsm/oid/146754/rpem/ccd/productDetailSpecification.do#tabs

This site seems to have writeups/reviews of most projectors:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/3M-MP8755.htm
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projector-reviews.cfm

 

[pauldh]

LOL, beat me to it. BTW, you bought the projector that I have. Quiet little guy isn't it. I like the case too, been carting it around lately. I want two more for bezeless surround gaming. My wife doesn't agree though.

 

[cleeve]

Yeah, awesome projector. I got it on boxing day for cheep and I love it.

I'm using it for a review coming up very soon... where I pair it up with wireless 3d glasses for the ultimate wall-sized 3d gaming experience.

 

[pauldh]

Hey that sounds like alot of fun. That is something that could interest me if it works real well. Looking forward to the review, too bad no impressive 3D screenies. :tongue:

I tell ya, I bought one of those matrox TH2go adaptors, and am itching to try 3 projectors for racing games. Shoot, just walking around in the world of Oblivion even, would be so cool. I have only used it on 3-19" CRT's, which about buckles the table it's on. Works OK, but I need smaller bezels. I can't imagine GTR 2 sitting in front of 3-4ft wrap-around screens with zero bezel. With the projectors positioned just right with zero keystone, we have like 1/4" overspill, which could be overlapped and I'd think basically hidden.

http://www.surroundgaming.com/


This screenie is 3072x768 medium details and was hammering my GF6800U, but imagine an 8800GTX (or two) cranked doing 3840x1024 on 3 projectors. Then put on the 3d glasses :lol: . Talk about immersive.

 

[ches111]

Fish,

I agree with the above statements...

I have an Optoma H78 with the DC3 and 720P native... It looks phenominal..

If you are looking for a low cost NEW projector, I think you can still find the Infocus Screenplay 4805 new... ~$700.00.

Great 480P projector built for great playback of DVDs..

Also, you could get the best price entry level 720P projector the Panasonic AE-900 for anywhere from 1300 - 2000..

Those are my recommendations..

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Funny thing is I can't appreciate those projectors.

I get wicked DLP rainbow effect issues with them. Worse on rear projection, but even the reflective kind I can't track something (like a puck on a screen) without an RGB flare showing up.

I wish there was a good balance (like LCOS) where you had the beniftis of DLP and none of it's drawbacks fom the colour wheel. Also 3 DLP projectors are too big and expensive for them to be in the same category. Sure they're great, but hard to justify compared to a 65" 1080P Plasma IMO.

BTW my projector is an old skool ASK960, a beast, but it did the trick for SDTV with DVD/S-BETA/SVHS content. Just not in the same class anymore. My first projector was an Eiki (can't remember the number, thought I knew it, but the pixels were HUGE and hexagonal) that I bought from work, then upgraded to the ASK.

 

[cleeve]

I've been lucky - either I have a good projector or I'm not capable of seeing the rainbow effect. I made sure to get one with a high refresh rate which is supposed to help (and it also helps the 3d side of things, part of the reasion I got it)...

Still. that next gen projector stuff looks very promising. Can't come fast enough IMHO.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Yeah I agree.
I was looking forward to LCOS for so long, and then Intel dropped out of the game and the market development sort of collapsed on itself.

The Gen2 DLP still doesn't seem to work for me, not as bas as first gen which was ridiculous, but now I notice it like every 5-15minutes in a hockey game if we watch it at a friends' or a pub the next gen are better, but oie still gets me. The old ones I'd occasionally get a huge long line all the way downthescreen in RGB.

I'd tell you how to notice it using a trick to make it more pronounced, but I don't want to ruin it for anyone for the possibility it will be something people notice more. Best if you see nothing, because it might be a survival strategy that I can, but we're no longer running from tigers and hunting mammoths. If you don't notice anything (hockey is definitely the worst for it IMO) then that's a good thing, because the other benefits of DLP are awesome.

BTW, I don't think it's 'high refresh' so much as fast wheel, the DLP can achieve mental refresh rates with latency in the ns, but it's the speed of the colour wheel that was improved from gen 1 to gen 2. But likely the sales rep told you the colour refresh rate which I think was doubled to 120-R/G/Bs, but I can't remember the RPM that is, I think it's a 4 x 4(3+1) segment wheel IIRC.

 

[pauldh]

I get wicked DLP rainbow effect issues with them

One of my best buds sees the rainbow effect on mine. It's especially during rolling white on black movie credits, but anytime there are darks and whites mixed he can look back and forth and get the rainbow to appear. Of all the people to watch my projector, he is the only one who has seen it, and I have asked a few to try and see it during movie credits. He felt it was because he had superhuman vision, then we looked it up on howstuffworks at his request and it says most people eyes do a good job of blending white light. So we have a joke going "superhuman vision vs. flawed vision". Anyway it's real to him so he'd have to go LCD or a high end DLP that doesn't use a single segmented wheel.

 

[cleeve]

It blows me away how some people are able to see it so prevalently. To be honest, I'm really glad I'm incapable of noticing it (knocks on wood).

It was something I was quite worried about when I was looking to buy because I have done alot of work in graphic arts - as a rule I find that I will spot color differences and little artifacts or details that the average joe will miss.

God knows I can't stand LCD televisions. I find them really harsh and I don't like the degredation of quality at odd angles. Don't even get me started on *barf* rear projection TVs.

Plasmas, those are real perty. But DLP projectors are so dirt cheap, hell I've got a 100" movie theatre in the livingroom for under $1500 (including screen).

As far as DLP projectors go, I'm giddily ignorant of the bad stuff so far...

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

One of my best buds sees the rainbow effect on mine. It's especially during rolling white on black movie credits, but anytime there are darks and whites mixed he can look back and forth and get the rainbow to appear.

Yeah and hockey with the black puck on a white background, with my Black Bruins, is F'in Brutal! Worst case scenario no joke.

He felt it was because he had superhuman vision, then we looked it up on howstuffworks at his request and it says most people eyes do a good job of blending white light. So we have a joke going "superhuman vision vs. flawed vision".

Yeah, and the thing is what's better? We're seeing what's there, you're seeing the effect they're trying to achieve. It's annoying regardless of what the +/- explanation is. But considering I can see the refresh of some LED clocks I have a feelilng it's a sensetivity, and not just component white light processing, although that may also play a factor, with the sensetivity just making it more accute.

Anyway it's real to him so he'd have to go LCD or a high end DLP that doesn't use a single segmented wheel.

Yep, that's why LCOS has always been my projector choice. I don't like the flaws of LCD with ghosting, and mediocre contrast (and early versions with noticeable wirelines), and the good stuff is too expensive.

My ASK will do for the mediocre stuff. But if I spend money I want it to be for good image quality at least as good as my current TVs. And that only leave 1080P Plasmas or the future of LEDlit LCD. Neither of which is cheap, although I did see a 58" 1080P Plasma for 'only' $3,500 on sale from $6,000. But I'm not that needy yet.

 

[pauldh]

Yeah, I'm so relieved it's him not I that sees it. And I bought it while my wife/kids were away visiting her folks(wasted no time inviting the guys over), so I had to wait a week worrying she might see it too. Had either of us seen the rainbow, I would have returned it even if just for in-store credit.

I had borrowed an Infocus X3 from my brother-in-law, and after many a night watching TV/movies/games neither of us had seen the rainbow effect. So I felt pretty safe going DLP. I was originally going to buy that same projector since I liked it, but it was out of stock/production when I looked around. I am happy I got the quiet little Optoma instead. But yeah, feeling lucky to not be able to see the rainbow.

 

[pauldh]

Yeah and hockey with the black puck on a white background, with my Black Bruins, is F'in Brutal! Worst case scenario no joke.

:lol: Ugh, that stinks. As he described it, I can see that ruining a game. Wow, downhill skiing must bug ya too right? You'll have to watch synchronized swimming instead.


Edit: The new tech is always interesting. Come the day a couple years from now when I need a new lamp, I'm hoping to get a nice HD Home Theater projector. Who knows what will be out by then. I only have 220 or so hours on my lamp so far, so I can wait.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Yeah and hockey with the black puck on a white background, with my Black Bruins, is F'in Brutal! Worst case scenario no joke.

:lol: Ugh, that stinks. As he described it, I can see that ruining a game. Wow, downhill skiing must bug ya too right? You'll have to watch synchronized swimming instead.

Funny thing is that it's only my hockey friends who have DLP (one a habs fan, which explains things and leads me to believe that being fine with DLP is actually an affliction :twisted: ), the only other person I know who watches Skiing, most just do it, and don't watch much TV at all. Well the only other person his wife works for LG and he has a nice 50" Plasma so no problem there., I coud've gotten in on for a good deal when they ordered theirs, but at the time I decided, I don't need 50" 720P, so I'm waiting, and Plasmas are coming even further down in price.

Edit: The new tech is always interesting. Come the day a couple years from now when I need a new lamp, I'm hoping to get a nice HD Home Theater projector. Who knows what will be out by then. I only have 220 or so hours on my lamp so far, so I can wait.

Yeah one of the things that always concerned me about switching to all projector, is the lamp life, my old Proscan show 12K hours on it, and it's now a second bedroom TV, so I can only imagine how quickly I'd go through lamps if I were using it as my primary. I still have the original one for my ASK, and that's ANCIENT, but it only comes out for parties.

 

[fishboi]

Hey guys,

I was offline yesterday, so didnt see all the activity in my post. Thanks for the great tips. I didnt even know about "the rainbow effect".

That projector was for sale from a friend of a friend for $75. It seemed real cheap so even if the bulb broke a couple of months later, its not that much of a loss.

What I did though was look into others, and noticed that prices have plummeted. I looked at projectors about 1.5 years ago, and they were way too expensive. Now, 100" screen for ~$700 is a bargain. Never owned a projector, but they've always looked so cool. Being owners, what are some of the other considerations I should be looking out for? Obviously a plasma will be a better quality image. How big is the difference with a projector. Its always so hard to get info and make a decision, unless you have the thing setup in your room and call pull the trigger.

Anyway, what do you think about this one instead?
http://www.projectorcentral.com/InFocus-LP70.htm

Very small, 1024x768 etc.

THANKS!

 

[cleeve]

Very small, 1024x768 etc.

That's not really very small, it's the same native resolution as the first one you considered, and it's the norm nowadays.

If you're friend will sell you that prjector for $75, buy it! Try it out and see if you like it. For $75, how can you lose?

 

[fishboi]

I meant that the unit is very small lol. Very portable.

Whats the best projector I can get for $300 (even if its used)?

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Not sure about pricing in your area, so its hard to suggest, I have only looked at higher end since I'm looking to replace adequate units already. Sorry. Like Cleeve says $75 is a good price, and replacement bulbs are much cheaper now (relatively speaking).

Being owners, what are some of the other considerations I should be looking out for? Obviously a plasma will be a better quality image. How big is the difference with a projector. Its always so hard to get info and make a decision, unless you have the thing setup in your room and call pull the trigger.

Well the main issues is the type of environment you'll be projecting into, darkened rooms are great for projectors (and bad for LCD panels, and even Plasmas to a lesser extent). However a bright room usually results in slight wash out. And if you have changing conditions you will want to ensure you have some preset settings you can easily flip between. You can minimize that with specialized screens, and there's even a special reflective paint. But many people use white walls or DIY screens can achieve good results too, but are more prone to outside influences.

As my experience at home is limited to my decade old behemoth (about 3ft long) and then the basics for ours at work, I'm probably not the best person to ask about mixed and HD content as I use DVD or SDTV content at home (for specific activities) and just M$ Office docs at work (we use the Plasma for gaming caue it's infront of the big couch 8) ). Like Paul or Cleeve can give you some insight into the mixed media handling of their model.

Also lamp life is dependant on brightness (as well as contast in that it's a function of brightness), usually lamp hours are about 2/3 to 1/2 or less than listed because that's under ideal conditions with low brightness and not contrast+ features enabled. Also adequate cooling affects them, especially towards end of life.

DLP projectors have better (less noticeable but still sharp) pixel borders than LCD, so I've found them to be great for text and video, without noticeable grid patterns, etc; and if you don't experience the rainbow effect, it's an awesome display best in class IMO, the 3 DLP models beat Plasma IMO. The only weak spot like I mentioned is bright environments.

 

[pauldh]

$75, working, and from a friend! Like these guys said BUY IT! Or better yet, let me buy it.

Prices will continue to drop, more options will be out and who knows you may be happy with that one for a long time, or find out projectors aren't for you. Anyway, again, if it works, buy it and join the projector club on the cheap.

 

[fishboi]

Shoot! I hesitated yesterday wanting to get more info, and the guy sold it to someone else. Can you handle that! After all this.

So instead of wallowing in my own poop, I've now been looking for others. What do you think about this one?

http://www.projectorcentral.com/InFocus-LP600.htm

It seems pretty good, except that it only outputs at 720p. I am actually pretty excited about this project. I've been trying to get a big screen for ages, for gaming and movies, and I think this will solve the prob and not bust my wallet.

One thing that's bugging me, is that why arent projectors more popular?? Heck, 100 inches for $400 (incl. a $50 pull down screen) seems like a bargain! Whats the catch?

 

[fishboi]

Do you guys know Draper? Will this screen work?

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=202958625&SearchEngine=PriceGrabber&SearchTerm=202958625&Type=PE&Category=Comp&dcaid=15890

 

[fishboi]

So listen guys, with this setup, do you think it will be good enough? I am going to pick up the unit tonight, so plz let me know ASAP.

I know there is always something better out there, but I'm trying to spend the least amount of money possible. All I need is satisfactory quality in this setup, and I'll be happy (S-video works too vs. the ten thousand $ a piece Monster cables etc). If its noticeably poor, then I would have wasted my money. I cant afford the $3000 extreme setup and am just looking to buy myself a year or so, until plasmas come down alot.

Thanks for the tips. Again, why doesnt everbody have one at these price points?

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

The two seem to be a pretty good combo. If you can get the InFocus for $400 that's pretty good.

The main drawbacks that don't have everyone onboard, are that you need space for both the projector and the screen, and they've only recently been above 800x600 for cheap. Also lamps are expensive if you watch alot of TV, so considering that InFocus is 2,000hr, if you have it turned up above 'econo' mode, then you're talking about probably closer to 1,500 hours, whcih for me would be around a year +/- a few months if it was my only TV. So $100/year for bulb replacements makes it a tough sell, but easier than when they were $300-500.