Upgrading Gone MAD!

[djmerlin]

I recently upgraded my PC with 2gb DDR and a Radeon x1950 AGP, which was a bit of an installation nightmare, if you want to read it just search "look" and "look part 2"

Anyway, even though it was a nightmare getting it working; I did enjoy it immensly. The feeling of conquering what at the start seems impossible is very addictive.

So there we have my new system with a new lease of life. I tweak a setting here, run a benchmark there. Oh hell, come on, you have been arsing around for two hours now; play a bloody game!....Load oblivion and spend an hour watching FRAPS in the corner as I climb the mountain to get as much detail in so I can check the frame rates and marvel at the percentage increase over my previous graphics card.

Not really 'playing' the game at all; just satisfying my need to see improvement.

Now at the moment (and please think properly about this), we arent exactly flooded with games that exploit all our new hardware to the fullest potential. Hell, I recently played Tower Defence and that was more fun than ANY of the games I currently have; it was a pure addictive hit, and you can run that on a 486!!

It seems as everything gets faster, and we have more power, games just get worse. A friend of mine said to me the other day "there is a limit to where we can go with games you know".

Is there? Is there a point at which we will exhaust all 'new' gaming avenues and experiences?

I pondered his point and then thought of my own gaming highlights....defining moments in my gaming history.

Tomb Raider on PS1...mind blowing and a true revelation

Half Life on PC. Again, it blew me away with its structure and flow.

Quake 3, a game which I love dearly for its simple smooth online play.

So, thats about it! Yes there are a few other games which did impress me...Far Cry, parts of F.E.A.R (watching the making of film improved that experience greatly); System Shock 2.

But everything else is forgettable. Everyone at the moment is clamouring for the latest release S.T.A.L.K.E.R, now I know nothing about this game; I know its been some time coming; but I already know that it wont interest me. I have heard mixed reviews on it; but im using it as an example because it is typical of the state of our games at the moment...nothing exciting; nothing new. Oh I forgot, battlefield 1942 was great.

So are we more interested now in how fast we can go and how much we can tweak than the actual games?

Think about it....we must be mad...Crysis is coming out sometime this year; and to play it in all its glory, we have to change to Windows Vista which at the moment is pointless, upgrade everything in our rigs if we havent done so already; and then hope to god the game really does deliver....dont sit there and pretend it has...is it really delivering on an upgrade that costs hundreds of pounds/euros/dollars??

I have faith it will be a good game, and undoubtedly will impress if you have a strong enough rig to run it.

I know some of you will agree and some wont, all I know is that there are a lot of people making games which just arent as good as they used to be.

Discuss!!

M 8)

 

[3Ball]

I agree to an extent only after my first upgrade to my computer in the area of 8 years ago when I realized how bad my comp was actually running the games I was playing. I fell into this pattern up constant upgrades and never being satisfied because all I really care about is how well my game is running the game and not really the game itself over the past year I have really realized this and attempted to sway my way of thinking and am now really starting to enjoy my games much more than I have in the past. I love upgrading and tweaking, but I would also love the be able to just sit down and enjoy my games, which is hard for me to do if I see even a single hickup now. I think that it isn't really the games getting worse, but more of less my expectations of my system getting higher and then also my need of it just to run the game well. I may get stalker, but from what I see its graphical achievements may be minimal. This is actually the reason I may get it because I find that when I play games that I know my system can handle with no problem and highest settings that I tend to not worry about it as much as I do when I have to actually tweak / guess and check to find the optimal frame/quality setting for another game. Interesting to see how this may turn out!

Best,

3Ball

 

[petevsdrm]

I agree with you 98% with the one point that I disagree is on stalker, which I installed last night and has been engrossing so far. It is really very different from any other FPS that I have played. Honestly I can't give it a thumbs up/down based on one night of play though.

In general, yes absolutely, games have been stagnating for some time now, and I think the big game franchises that are so popular nowadays are making it worse. I think game developers are scared to innovate or deviate from the "succesful game" formula because then they might not make money. so now we end up with BF 2142 which is the 4th in a line of sequels, and the most boring out of the bunch, not that its a BAD game, it's just nowhere near as fun as 1942 was, with nearly identical gameplay just better graphics. It's like every game I play I have already played to death. (with the exeption of stalker, but we will see how that ends up )

 

[CuddleBunny]

Yeah i totaly agree with you too though i have to say you probably didn`t play so many games as there ware alot of other games that didn`t have monsterous requirements and ware quite good out of which id nominate Mafia City of last Haven which was trully a revelation for me and Unreal II and Jedi knight Outcast and Star Wars Commando(GREAT EXPERIENCE and GREAT graphics) and they all run great on my current Geforce 2 Ti (64Mb ram with Dx7) and on top of that they looked GREAT especially Jedi Knight,what ive learnt from this games is that YOU CAN if you WANT to make GREAT games with GREAT graphics and gameplay the bad part is that with so much hardware being thrown at us by Nvidia,ATi,Intel and AMD programmes just don`t bother so much too optimize as well as they should/could just look at Call of Juarez (GREAT GAME,with some inovative features but TERRIBLE optimization)or UberSoldier which was just dezastrous regarding loading times/fps personaly i think that programers are to blame as they don`t take time to optimize the game and publishers that just push games out the gate no matter how many bug`s/issues a game has but also the Chip manufactureres here id add nvidia with theyr "ment to be played program"i mean if they give the studios the latest hardware to test optimize of course they totaly over look the older(1 year at most) and the game will play like crap on your year old graphics card preaty much all i have to say it just makes me feel like just buy a console

 

[Dr_asik]

I really miss the Infinity Engine and the original Command and Conquer engine. I think they both allowed so much artistic detail at no cost in performance and so much less costs for the developpers... now that everything just HAS to be 3D and use the latest and greatest of DX9 and 10, games cost a lot more and so there is smaller room for innovation; they have to use classic designs that are known to be successful and appeal to as many people as possible.

Though we have recently seen some games that reflect true genius in conception: Half-Life 2 is IMO the most precious gem of game programming there has been recently. Around 2001 there has been Baldur's Gate 2 (best game ever period) and Warcraft 3 which were impressive pieces of software.

Have you taken notice of Galactic Civilizations II and its expansion pack Dark Avatar? It's worthy of old Civilization II from what I have played until now; I was much more excited with it than the piece of crap based on Gamebryo which they said was the sequel to CivII.

So in short, video games are like everything else; most is crap and it's up to you to dig out the rare pearl which emerges from time to time. I don't think that was so different 10 years ago.

 

[petevsdrm]

Ditto on baldurs gate 2 - I think that was the best rpg I've ever played. I have replayed that one more than any other rpg by a lot.

 

[kinneer]

Part of the problem is the way games are made these days. Gones are the days of wacky games coming out from the bedrooms.

Publishers are only willing to fund the development cost if there is a high probability of recuperating that cost.

This partly explains why there are very little original games out and many sequels. It is because market research, trends, etc points to what type of games sales and the publishers follow these.

It takes a very persistence and persuasive game designer to sell an original idea to a publisher. Having a known and successful track records helps as well. Very few people in the industry have that kind of power to be given the opportunity to try something new.

 

[DrussTheCrazy]

i agree wholeheartdly ive been getting the same way lately and haven't been enjoying my games so much as i used to not sure if its the whole need/want for a better system or the fact that games have gotten crappy...on another note i love baldurs gate 2 and have finished about 6 times and everytime i finish i find a new mod i like and replay the whole all over again im also playing stalker and i must say im a bit dissapointed considering its taking years to make its storyline seems really hollow and the guns are wildly inaccurate at times for no apparent reason...every1 says its something that has never been done but im not sure if many people of heard of the game called boiling point road to hell its pretty much the exact same thing except stalker has more weapons.

 

[slashzapper]

Yeah i agree with all you guys , i mean i more interested in seeing shadows and reflections (no i am not color blind :lol: ) GRAPHICS i must have BEAUTIFUL GRAPHICS .. time for my medication.*swallows pills*

Uhh yeah so like i was saying gameplay is very important , NO i am just lying the greatest game which i played after which it has been downhill was COMMAND AND CONQUER red alert. it was awesome.

I mean i love FEAR for the graphics and innovation but the gameplay is not always the most intriguing .

Look at Supreme Commander GREAT GAME am i ever going to play it NOOO why cause i dont and cant afford a frigging QUAD CORE CPU at this time for 1 GAME 8O

Its like the games are drying up and only crappy coded games let see here we go GRAW -VEGAS-NFMW-TIGERWOODS etc.

I mean its like i keep getting a bigger engine but the fuel keeps getting worse.

Soon we will have to make a computer just to BUY and even run a particular game MS X simulator anyone :x

Its ridiculous But i can never compare a console to my comp..cause after all its faults i still love it :trophy:

So long live PC gaming and Please if they are any developers reading this don't make crappy games Pleease :tongue:

 

[djmerlin]

Im glad im not alone on this! 8)

 

[SirCrono]

I agree with u 100%, nowadays gamemakers focus a lot more resources into making a better-looking game that they spend in improving gameplay or storytelling, I mean even if crysis looks more real than life if the story and gameplay sucks the whole game'll suck.
I disagree with you though about the lack of good/grat games, I mean in the last 2 or 3 years we'v seen some pretty good games releases in the PC (I don't own any console but I think there must be some good releases too), F.E.A.R was great and I'm still playing it, the sims 2 was OK, do I even have to mention WoW? or HL-2, HL-2 E:1?? titan's quest, Oblivion, battlefield-2 and the list can go on and on and on..... and on.

So my humble conclusion is that even though the game industry is currently obsessed with übergraphics (PS3 I'm looking at you) there are still some great games coming out, let's hope nintendo can turn this trend around, at least they're aiming in the right direction focusing on simple fun games and casting graphics aside IMHO

best to you all!!!

PD: I think this is my longest post ever

 

[yakyb]

i both disagree and agree at the same time.

i do spend most of my tme moving files around on my computer organising Media files than i do using my rig to its full potential.
but that is only because no game has been able to grab my attention since FF8. well unless you include WOW which was innovative (in the way it brought MMORPG to the masses)and as you say Far Cry which almost came from nowhere.

I read a reveiw on farcry in a mag that contained the demo so decided to fire up the demo(dont play demos often) and was awestruck it was a far better game than Half Life2 or Doom3 tht were released at the same time.

a lot of the more recent games have been in developement for years and we know everything about them before they are even released. i.e stalker, CnC3, Crysis, doom3, half life2 now the dury is still out on 3 of them but i feel that the last two did not have the replayability that previous games did. my favourate game right now is Red Alert 2 but its got to the point where im too good for the rest of my family and so cant play it anymore (i can beat 7 expert ememies on the same team for christs sake - well sometimes anyway LOL)

the last bedroom programmers that brought us games like Uplink and Defcon where fantastic for a short while but only that, no real depth in the games, but that is the cost of lowbbudget games.

im currently awaiting my stalker copy and CNC3 next week and hope that at least one of them delivers (oh i do have supcom but my 3500 struggles).

i have a very strict upgrade routine of a major upgrade every 2 years (dependant on market) im currently due an upgrade but feel that the current market suggests waiting 6 months.

So now im going to go home continue the case mod for my next build a design my WCing so i can spend some time tweaking my computer to run 25% faster than stock. in the hope that i can find a game that will grab my attention so that i can use it to its full potential.

I am a Gamer but games do not grab my attention anymore.
are we just part of an aging generation that long for the days gone by of mindless afternoons building bases and shooting imps. but actually our minds need a little more than this now? what is going to fill this void? (and before you ask yes i do have a girlfriend and she does fulfill my other needs) I personally feel that i need more information in games a game that spans two monitors that requires masses amounts of micro management where i have to balance resources against each other whilst also looking to the left and right watching for impending attacks

both Crysis and supcom should fulfill this need but guess what i need a new comp for them (aaahhhh) are we going round in circles.

i will build in August (be it AMD or Nvidia / AMd or Intel) and see what DX10 etc has to offer. hopefully a game will come from Leftfield that will blow developers into the water maybe a new genre. and change the way big companies have to design there games (or even just open up a new avenue for them to explore)

anyway hope you enjoyed my ranting heres to the future [_]b

 

[jeff_2087]

It seems as everything gets faster, and we have more power, games just get worse. A friend of mine said to me the other day "there is a limit to where we can go with games you know".

I don't think that's quite fair. I see where you're coming from, though. Pretty graphics are great but they don't make a good game. Sure, a lot of new fancy pretty games have no depth or interest. But that's always been true- we just remember the great old games because that's what they were, great. You can bet your boots that for every great game from however long ago, there are many more total trash games. Probably more, actually. They are forgotten.

Oblivion is a good example. Hugely hyped, unprecedented graphics. I got bored of it after 15 minutes and installed Baldur's Gate 2. What a brilliant work that was- most complex story I've ever seen in a game. Baldur's Gate 1 and Planescape: Torment, also good stuff.

As for "there is a limit to where we can go with games you know", I don't believe that at all. No more than there is a limit to where stories and literature can go, and they've been going strong for millenia.

 

[petevsdrm]

F.E.A.R was great and I'm still playing it, the sims 2 was OK, do I even have to mention WoW? or HL-2, HL-2 E:1?? titan's quest, Oblivion, battlefield-2 and the list can go on and on and on..... and on.

Man did you just say Titan Quest and Battlefield 2? I think games like that are what this thread is about.

Titan quest is a blatant diablo rip-off, only it is years after the fact. Diablo was a Great game for its time, but I couldn't play titan quest for more than an hour, because I was already tired of it.

FEAR was a good shooter, but hardly a GREAT game. I understand why you are still playing it though - it's because all of the other shooters released recently are even MORE vanilla than FEAR.

Ditto with battlefield 2. I mean really, It's the 3rd in the series, and gameplay is identical with the first one. It's not new or interesting.

A great game is something that will be replayable for years to come because it is better or different from other games. Take half life 1 for instance. Now that was a Great shooter. I played that game online for a solid 3 years, as well as counterstrike and TFC because it was a great game and no one had anything even close to gameplay like that out at the time.

What makes a great game is not copying another game with better graphics.

Sorry man I don't mean to flame you, I do appreciate your post and your opinions, but I respectfully disagree.

Now HL2 was a Great game I agree with you 100% on that one - I think I am a Valve groupie.

 

[AndonSage]

Great games don't have to require a state-of-the-art computer. The one game that took over the longest part of my life was Civilization, which I played for TWO YEARS straight. I only had to start worrying about upgrades when I got into MMORPGs, beginning with Everquest. Now I'm playing Vanguard, and my computer that plays Everquest 2 quite well is screaming for an upgrade The only part I _can_ upgrade (since I'm maxed with 2G RAM and I'd have to get a new motherboard for a new CPU) is my X850 XT PE AGP video card, and if I waffle long enough on deciding to get an X1950 Pro, it'll be September, and I can just buy a new computer.

I used to think that buying one step down from top-of-the-line was the best way to purchase a new computer. I'm now convinced that buying anything less than cutting edge just isn't worth it anymore, if you want a computer to last three years.

And if PCI-e 2.0 isn't out by September, I'm going to wait...

 

[kinneer]

If a great game is defined by the replay value, then for it must be Baldur`s Gate 2 Shadow of Amn.

The number of times I have replayed that game. My friends always ask why I am always replaying it.

I would also likte to add Morrowind although I have not replayed that as much as SoA. Partly because of the tracking and getting the necessary mods to work correctly.

I partly agree with Titan Quest. I played the demo and while I was a big fan of Diablo 2, I was not as interested in Titan Quest, but I liked Divine Divinity a lot.

 

[mitch074]

Personally the games I played most were:
- Final Fantasy 7. Absolute king of RPGs (the various Hi-Def mods don't hurt). Love.
- Chrono Trigger - close second to FF7. Zelda on steroids.
- Blood Omen Legacy of Kain. Has anybody found the 100 secrets? Sadistic powers and weapons, story, nice 2D graphics, and the Musics...
- Soul Reaver (the first). Nice follow-up to the former. Think Tomb Raider with story.
- Max Payne. Bullet Time. 'Nuff said.
- Chromium B.S.U. So ok, it's a vertical space scroller with few enemies, few weapons and only a single music piece. But damn, talk about adrenaline rush...

I must admit not giving much attention to graphisms - I like Max Payne better than FEAR, eventhough the latter has everything the former has with much better graphics and trickier AI. Still...

 

[pongrules]

The best games I ever played in my life were:

Half-Life - I used to play console games, played this on the PC when it came out and I was hooked.

Unreal - It was, for a new PC player...unreal. Really got the feeling that I was somewhere lost on a foreign and very dangerous planet.

Unreal Return to Na Pali - This was even better than Unreal, IMHO.

Unreal Tournament 2004 - One of the best online FPS ever. The graphics could still hold up today because they were coded so well the first time.

Deus X - Very deep and involving game with tons of atmosphere. Great FPS/RPG hybrid and a breakthrough at the time.

Ragnarok - This is not the name of the game, I don't think, but you were a viking character and it was just a lot of fun.

No One Lives Forever - Flew way under the radar but was one of the best FPS's I've ever played. Plus Cate Archer was HOT!!!

Battlefield 1942 - Some of the most fun I've ever had in MP because of all the different things you could do. Secret Weapons was a fantastic mod.

Far Cry - I loved the expansiveness, the storyline and the graphics of this FPS. It was unlike anything I had ever played before. I actually liked not being able to save anytime I wanted to--it added to the tension and forced me to play more carefully.

Morrowind - Another breakthrough in its day. I loved the fact you could do anything you wanted. The storyline was well done, politics ran deep and the whole thing felt very ominous and mysterious. Oblivion doesn't have the same feel for me.

Neverwinter Nights - This was the first RPG I ever played and I loved it. I must have played with at least 6 or 7 characters and through every expansion. I missed out on playing any of the BG games, but I had a blast with this one. Unfortunatley, NWN 2 didn't hold the same type of epic feel for me that the first one did. The story was lame, but I loved to see the progress of my characters.

Total Anihilation - Until Supreme Commander, the best RTS ever made. Lots of mileage out of this one.

Supreme Commander - Total Anihilation redone and even better. It's perfect.

Mafia - Driving old cars, outrunning the cops, going against the mafia...excellent story. Very well done FPS.

KOTOR 1 - Awesome FPS/RPG hybrid, epic and with a great storyline. Had an absolute blast with this one.

Star Wars Jedi Knight - When I finally played it, it had outdated graphics but I had a ton of fun playing it anyway.

Duke Nukem - Again, the graphics were outdated by the time I played it, but for some reason it kept my attention until the very end--way cool game.

Max Payne 1 and 2 - Great, gritty storyline, breakthrough in gameplay, awesome atmosphere.

Guild Wars - First MMO game that did everything right including no subscrition fees. Storyline sucks, but everything else keeps me and apparently a lot of other people, coming back.

I missed out on BG and System Shock, unfortunately, and they're really too old for me to play now and get immersed in them. But I know they've captured the hearts and minds of many. And, there a probably a few that I missed because memory escapes me. But count me in on what some of the people here are lamenting about graphics improving but storyline and gameplay lagging behind.

Great graphics, no captivating gameplay or storyline:

Doom 3 (was fun though as a pure FPS)
FEAR (sort of)
PREY (blech, yawn)
Oblivion (sort of)

 

[jeff_2087]

Neverwinter Nights - This was the first RPG I ever played and I loved it. I must have played with at least 6 or 7 characters and through every expansion. I missed out on playing any of the BG games, but I had a blast with this one. Unfortunatley, NWN 2 didn't hold the same type of epic feel for me that the first one did. The story was lame, but I loved to see the progress of my characters.

Really? I liked the NWN2 campaign better than NWN1. Although I thought I'd never say this but I actually miss the radial menu. I played online for a long time and got incredibly fast using that radial, now I wish they hadn't taken it out. Both great games though.

I found that the NWN1 campaign was too much boring "go here and find this". The NWN2 one is a lot more interesting so far, though I haven't finished it.

You really ought to install Baldur's Gate II. The graphics will seem horrendous, I know, but it's a very good RPG. The best ever made, IMO.

 

[engrpiman]

Dude how can you say that Prey was "blah" that game rules. while it was easy compared to other, the comments that tommy made and the way that gravity was handled mad it a great game.

as for doom 3 you have to install the classic doom mod before you trash it. not only does the mod open things up but the AI improves 100% when you give them space. in the original doom3 the humans never rolled on the floor and ducked for cover .. in the mod they are hard to hit .. it's not that the AI is bad it is that the AI need larger rooms to shine and that is what that mod does.

 

[dirian]

I think the problem is game developer consolidation, especially would like to mention the name.......... EA... everytime they see a game or franchise they like, they buy the developer and shut down everything but that one title or franchise they bought them for. A great example of this is Maxis, i used to love the "sim" games. EA bought them for the "the sims" franchise and everything else disappeared. Theres many other such examples, im sure everyone can come up with a different one.

Anyhoo.. that my two pennies.

 

[Rripperr]

Truly, graphics don't make a game great. All it can do is make a good game better. Personally, one of my favorite games of all time is the MechWarrior 2 series by Activision. I'd really like a graphically updated version of the game, because it was something you could literally sit for HOURS and play.

"Heat approaching critical levels. Shutdown imminent.. Shutting down.".

Everything, from the AI, to weapons, to the music just intergrated into the perfectly immersive experience. Unfortunately, now it's so outdated I don't have a rig to run it anymore.

Heck I have Doom3, and I STILL don't think it can match the original for sheer fun. I even have all the expansion packs for the original Doom including Ultimate Doom, Doom 2, Masters of Doom (a map Pak) and Final Doom. Even after 13+ years, it's still fun as hell to play.

I suspect that game designers and programmers had to be a lot more innovative back then. Because systems were so limited, they had to focus more on the gameplay, and NOT so much on looks and mechanics. Maybe todays designers need to take a cue from the past..

 

[AndonSage]

Hehe, just remembered a great game from a LONG time ago that didn't require state-of-the-art... Empire. That one sucked up a lot of my play time also.

 

[Blacken]

Absolutely. Doom and Doom 2 were quite addictive for me - it took the 386 style Wolfenstien3D game (released just a year earlier) 3 steps up. I don't believe there will ever be such an innovation in gameplay and graphics again.

The Origional Doom mod for Doom3? - Headtrip. I bet I've played a year away in hours on Doom, Doom2, and CS(S).

Duke3D was one for map making and just as fun as Dm.

I think we all tend to have an attachement to times we've had playing certain games; with buddies and taking the game to depths (mods, maps, ect.). You tend to immerse yourself and become clannish - when something else comes along, like a bunch of old stubborn men who fought a war being force-fed rap; we want nothing to do with it. :roll: Oh well.

 

[jaguarskx]

Although high quality graphics is definitely nice to have, I would tend to agree that the game itself has to be enjoyable no matter how good the graphics are. I play my fair share of first person shooters like Half Life, Halo, Far Cry, etc. but I prefer strategy games which didn't need a powerful video card in the past.

However, strategy games are becoming more demanding on the video card. Examples would be Supreme Commander, Civilization 4 and Caesar 4, none of which I have played yet. Supreme Commander looks interesting, but I'm more of a turn based gamer. Civ 4 is turn based and is on my list to play, but not yet. Caesar 4 seems to be a game that has placed graphics ahead of gameplay based on the reviews that I've read that basically stated Caesar 4 is missing a number of gameplay elements thaty were in Ceasar 3.

Sort of a sidebar but the gaming industry and Hollywood are focusing too much on graphics. Halo the movie has been placed on the back burner because Fox and Universal are unwilling to take a financial risk on a movie who's budget has ballooned to $300 million dollars.

That much money for a movie is ludicrous. I'm almost positive it will not be an all star cast, so the bulk of it must be going towards CGI and other special effects. For that much money, I expect the graphics to jump off the screen without the need to wear 3D glasses.