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Best Buy Service Plan for Samsung DLP HDTV - Advice needed

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September 30, 2004 1:57:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Hi, we purchased a Samsung 61" DLP HDTV almost a month ago and we are
still debating the purchase of the Best Buy Service Plan. We have
some concerns, however:

1) Our TV was purchased on sale for approx. $3800-3900, the service
plan price quoted was $400 for 4 years. This seems high to me. Is
it?

2) Is Best Buy reliable with their service? ie. Will they do what
they say? We are interested in knowing if anyone has had any
experience with actually trying to get things fixed.

3) We felt the sales manager was exaggerating with his stories of all
that could go wrong, even in the first year, with these TV's. He had
horror stories of possible $1500 repairs and such. At the minimum he
suggested that the bulb would need to be replaced at least every 2
years, which at $200/bulb would recoup the cost of the service plan.
I question this. With a 6000 hour bulb life, say we watch a maximum
of 5 hours/day on average, that gives us 1200 days which is over 3
years.

4) We are not even sure the service plan WILL cover the bulb as the
sales manager claims. It does not specifically mention the bulb. It
does offer "complete coverage if your product fails due to normal wear
and tear/usage", BUT it also says "not covered are replacement costs
for lost or consumable parts (knobs, remotes, batteries, bags, belts,
etc.)" We are afraid they could argue that a bulb is a "consumable
part".

We are not naive enough to think that just because the sales manager
says something is covered, that it is. I have read the performance
plan brochure carefully, and unfortunately, it is written for a
variety of products and not specifically for an HDTV.

So, should we or shouldn't we? $400 is a lot of money and we don't
want to throw it away. Thanks!
September 30, 2004 9:37:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

There is nothing to argue about. A bulb IS a consumable and not covered by
any warranty.

But also understand that BB will NOT provide service to any device that is
out of warranty...even when you bought it at their store!
Do you have a good service source in your area BESIDES BB?




"Jim" <jra@ncrb.org> wrote in message
news:fe23f062.0409300857.43bf1aee@posting.google.com...
> Hi, we purchased a Samsung 61" DLP HDTV almost a month ago and we are
> still debating the purchase of the Best Buy Service Plan. We have
> some concerns, however:
>
> 1) Our TV was purchased on sale for approx. $3800-3900, the service
> plan price quoted was $400 for 4 years. This seems high to me. Is
> it?
>
> 2) Is Best Buy reliable with their service? ie. Will they do what
> they say? We are interested in knowing if anyone has had any
> experience with actually trying to get things fixed.
>
> 3) We felt the sales manager was exaggerating with his stories of all
> that could go wrong, even in the first year, with these TV's. He had
> horror stories of possible $1500 repairs and such. At the minimum he
> suggested that the bulb would need to be replaced at least every 2
> years, which at $200/bulb would recoup the cost of the service plan.
> I question this. With a 6000 hour bulb life, say we watch a maximum
> of 5 hours/day on average, that gives us 1200 days which is over 3
> years.
>
> 4) We are not even sure the service plan WILL cover the bulb as the
> sales manager claims. It does not specifically mention the bulb. It
> does offer "complete coverage if your product fails due to normal wear
> and tear/usage", BUT it also says "not covered are replacement costs
> for lost or consumable parts (knobs, remotes, batteries, bags, belts,
> etc.)" We are afraid they could argue that a bulb is a "consumable
> part".
>
> We are not naive enough to think that just because the sales manager
> says something is covered, that it is. I have read the performance
> plan brochure carefully, and unfortunately, it is written for a
> variety of products and not specifically for an HDTV.
>
> So, should we or shouldn't we? $400 is a lot of money and we don't
> want to throw it away. Thanks!
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
September 30, 2004 10:02:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

When did they start that policy? A few years ago, I took a JVC SVHS I
bought at Circuit City to BB for service, and they fixed it no questions
asked.

"curmudgeon" <curmudgeon@buzzoff.net> wrote in message
news:p __6d.6021$yp.4092@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> But also understand that BB will NOT provide service to any device that is
> out of warranty...even when you bought it at their store!
Related resources
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 1, 2004 12:02:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"curmudgeon" <curmudgeon@buzzoff.net> wrote in message
news:p __6d.6021$yp.4092@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> There is nothing to argue about. A bulb IS a consumable and not covered
> by
> any warranty.
>

Actually depending on the manufacturer, the bulb is covered up to 1 year. 90
days for Sony and Hitachi. 1 year by Mitsubishi. (Please correct me if I'm
wrong anyone)
Also where I work, the largest independently owned department store in the
US (located in NE US), we cover the bulb under our service plan. Plus we
provide yearly maintenance service.

Scott
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 1, 2004 12:06:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

The bulb will not be covered. Rest assured that Service Plans bring in
more profit to the retailer than any other item that they sell. That
alone should tell you that it is in their interest, not yours.

The Samsung has four components inside it - the power supply, the analog
board, the digital board, and the light engine. The first three cost
about $200 each to replace. The last costs about $1500. If you lose
the Light Engine during year 1, the warranty will cover it. Samsung
provides in-home service under warranty (1-800-Samsung), no need to
involve Best Buy in the process. They'll replace the light engine even
if it's just noisy, or if it has a single bad pixel.

If you lose the Light Engine during years 2, 3, or 4, then the Service
Plan will have been a good purchase. However, the probability of the
Light Engine working for a full year, and then failing within the next
three, is very, very small.

Jim wrote:
> Hi, we purchased a Samsung 61" DLP HDTV almost a month ago and we are
> still debating the purchase of the Best Buy Service Plan. We have
> some concerns, however:
>
> 1) Our TV was purchased on sale for approx. $3800-3900, the service
> plan price quoted was $400 for 4 years. This seems high to me. Is
> it?
>
> 2) Is Best Buy reliable with their service? ie. Will they do what
> they say? We are interested in knowing if anyone has had any
> experience with actually trying to get things fixed.
>
> 3) We felt the sales manager was exaggerating with his stories of all
> that could go wrong, even in the first year, with these TV's. He had
> horror stories of possible $1500 repairs and such. At the minimum he
> suggested that the bulb would need to be replaced at least every 2
> years, which at $200/bulb would recoup the cost of the service plan.
> I question this. With a 6000 hour bulb life, say we watch a maximum
> of 5 hours/day on average, that gives us 1200 days which is over 3
> years.
>
> 4) We are not even sure the service plan WILL cover the bulb as the
> sales manager claims. It does not specifically mention the bulb. It
> does offer "complete coverage if your product fails due to normal wear
> and tear/usage", BUT it also says "not covered are replacement costs
> for lost or consumable parts (knobs, remotes, batteries, bags, belts,
> etc.)" We are afraid they could argue that a bulb is a "consumable
> part".
>
> We are not naive enough to think that just because the sales manager
> says something is covered, that it is. I have read the performance
> plan brochure carefully, and unfortunately, it is written for a
> variety of products and not specifically for an HDTV.
>
> So, should we or shouldn't we? $400 is a lot of money and we don't
> want to throw it away. Thanks!
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 1, 2004 12:23:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

We purchased a Samsung 50" on the pedestal, considered 2nd generation DLP.
Love it!!! I usually do not purchase service plans, except on expensive
items like the Samsung. Best Buy has been slammed about their service
policies and is know on the up and up. Too much media exposure last time.
They are worried about class action law litigation. Good Luck, Alan

--
This Message is certified Virus free by Norton AntiVirus 2004
"Jim" <jra@ncrb.org> wrote in message
news:fe23f062.0409300857.43bf1aee@posting.google.com...
> Hi, we purchased a Samsung 61" DLP HDTV almost a month ago and we are
> still debating the purchase of the Best Buy Service Plan. We have
> some concerns, however:
>
> 1) Our TV was purchased on sale for approx. $3800-3900, the service
> plan price quoted was $400 for 4 years. This seems high to me. Is
> it?
>
> 2) Is Best Buy reliable with their service? ie. Will they do what
> they say? We are interested in knowing if anyone has had any
> experience with actually trying to get things fixed.
>
> 3) We felt the sales manager was exaggerating with his stories of all
> that could go wrong, even in the first year, with these TV's. He had
> horror stories of possible $1500 repairs and such. At the minimum he
> suggested that the bulb would need to be replaced at least every 2
> years, which at $200/bulb would recoup the cost of the service plan.
> I question this. With a 6000 hour bulb life, say we watch a maximum
> of 5 hours/day on average, that gives us 1200 days which is over 3
> years.
>
> 4) We are not even sure the service plan WILL cover the bulb as the
> sales manager claims. It does not specifically mention the bulb. It
> does offer "complete coverage if your product fails due to normal wear
> and tear/usage", BUT it also says "not covered are replacement costs
> for lost or consumable parts (knobs, remotes, batteries, bags, belts,
> etc.)" We are afraid they could argue that a bulb is a "consumable
> part".
>
> We are not naive enough to think that just because the sales manager
> says something is covered, that it is. I have read the performance
> plan brochure carefully, and unfortunately, it is written for a
> variety of products and not specifically for an HDTV.
>
> So, should we or shouldn't we? $400 is a lot of money and we don't
> want to throw it away. Thanks!
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 1, 2004 3:28:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On 30 Sep 2004 16:54:29 -0700, jeremy@pdq.net (JDeats) wrote:

>DO NOT PAY BEST BUY MONEY FOR AN EXTENDED WARRENTY. Ever! Espeically
>not on a HDTV, something like this you'll want only an authorized
>service tech to touch your set should something go wrong.

Best Buy does not have service techs. Factory authorized (I would
assume) subcontractors perform warranty work on the electronic items
they sell.
October 1, 2004 3:34:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I don't believe THEY service anything. They contract it out. Their
service policies didn't used to be theirs either, meaning that they
sold a policy serviced by another company. I don't know if that's
still true.

Clay
"Jeff Henkels" <jeff@mapson.privatemail.com> wrote in message
news:ttydnYI2CY77H8HcRVn-vQ@speakeasy.net...
> When did they start that policy? A few years ago, I took a JVC SVHS
I
> bought at Circuit City to BB for service, and they fixed it no
questions
> asked.
>
> "curmudgeon" <curmudgeon@buzzoff.net> wrote in message
> news:p __6d.6021$yp.4092@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> > But also understand that BB will NOT provide service to any device
that is
> > out of warranty...even when you bought it at their store!
>
>
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 1, 2004 6:24:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

True. Best Buy sells warranties administered by NEW, National
Electronics Warranty Corporation. Not knowing how they work for HDTV,
but I can speak for my experience. My wife handles claims for DirecTV
for them. Claims are scheduled with factory authorized contractors who
install, set up, and provide warranty service. The contractor that came
out to service our multi-satellite receiver knew his job and was
finished promptly. We would have received the same treatment even if my
wife didn't work for NEW, as she has to play the bad guy and send a tech
out if there are still problems with a subscriber's equipment after they
closed the job. And the tech gets paid by the job, not by the clock.

HDTV-slingr wrote:

> On 30 Sep 2004 16:54:29 -0700, jeremy@pdq.net (JDeats) wrote:
>
>
>>DO NOT PAY BEST BUY MONEY FOR AN EXTENDED WARRENTY. Ever! Espeically
>>not on a HDTV, something like this you'll want only an authorized
>>service tech to touch your set should something go wrong.
>
>
> Best Buy does not have service techs. Factory authorized (I would
> assume) subcontractors perform warranty work on the electronic items
> they sell.
>
>
October 1, 2004 8:54:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Thanks for everyone's advice. I think we have decided against the
Best Buy Service Plan. We were wondering, however, if Samsung offers
an extended warranty towards to the end of the year as the original
manufacturer's warranty expires.

We have purchased items in the past where we have received information
in the mail about extending the manufacturer's warranty, so we wonder
if that will be the case for this TV.

jra@ncrb.org (Jim) wrote in message news:<fe23f062.0409300857.43bf1aee@posting.google.com>...
> Hi, we purchased a Samsung 61" DLP HDTV almost a month ago and we are
> still debating the purchase of the Best Buy Service Plan. We have
> some concerns, however:
>
> 1) Our TV was purchased on sale for approx. $3800-3900, the service
> plan price quoted was $400 for 4 years. This seems high to me. Is
> it?
>
> 2) Is Best Buy reliable with their service? ie. Will they do what
> they say? We are interested in knowing if anyone has had any
> experience with actually trying to get things fixed.
>
> 3) We felt the sales manager was exaggerating with his stories of all
> that could go wrong, even in the first year, with these TV's. He had
> horror stories of possible $1500 repairs and such. At the minimum he
> suggested that the bulb would need to be replaced at least every 2
> years, which at $200/bulb would recoup the cost of the service plan.
> I question this. With a 6000 hour bulb life, say we watch a maximum
> of 5 hours/day on average, that gives us 1200 days which is over 3
> years.
>
> 4) We are not even sure the service plan WILL cover the bulb as the
> sales manager claims. It does not specifically mention the bulb. It
> does offer "complete coverage if your product fails due to normal wear
> and tear/usage", BUT it also says "not covered are replacement costs
> for lost or consumable parts (knobs, remotes, batteries, bags, belts,
> etc.)" We are afraid they could argue that a bulb is a "consumable
> part".
>
> We are not naive enough to think that just because the sales manager
> says something is covered, that it is. I have read the performance
> plan brochure carefully, and unfortunately, it is written for a
> variety of products and not specifically for an HDTV.
>
> So, should we or shouldn't we? $400 is a lot of money and we don't
> want to throw it away. Thanks!
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 1, 2004 10:06:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Jim Gilliland" <usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote in message
news:EL-dnXJlR-s4AsHcRVn-pg@adelphia.com...
> The bulb will not be covered. Rest assured that Service Plans bring in
> more profit to the retailer than any other item that they sell. That
> alone should tell you that it is in their interest, not yours.
>
> The Samsung has four components inside it - the power supply, the analog
> board, the digital board, and the light engine. The first three cost
> about $200 each to replace. The last costs about $1500. If you lose
> the Light Engine during year 1, the warranty will cover it. Samsung
> provides in-home service under warranty (1-800-Samsung), no need to
> involve Best Buy in the process. They'll replace the light engine even
> if it's just noisy, or if it has a single bad pixel.
>
> If you lose the Light Engine during years 2, 3, or 4, then the Service
> Plan will have been a good purchase. However, the probability of the
> Light Engine working for a full year, and then failing within the next
> three, is very, very small.

Does the $200 for the boards other than the light engine include labor and a
service call? Is that dealer cost or retail? Are you sure that there are
not other parts that can fail that are not part of those assemblies? I have
heard this claim about the cost of repairing the Samsungs before and asked
these questions, but never get an answer... What happens if a fan, safety
switch, or temperature sensor goes bad (most LCD and DLP sets have several
of each and they have been some of the most common failures in most)? Do
you have to replace a $200 board to replace a $14 fan?

Bottom line is that replacing a power supply, analog board, or digital board
will likely cost more like $400 on average and from what I hear from the
guys servicing Samsungs, replacing light engines is much more likely than,
for instance, replacing a CRT.

Leonard
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 1, 2004 11:45:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Leonard Caillouet wrote:
>
> Does the $200 for the boards other than the light engine include labor and a
> service call? Is that dealer cost or retail? Are you sure that there are
> not other parts that can fail that are not part of those assemblies? I have
> heard this claim about the cost of repairing the Samsungs before and asked
> these questions, but never get an answer... What happens if a fan, safety
> switch, or temperature sensor goes bad (most LCD and DLP sets have several
> of each and they have been some of the most common failures in most)? Do
> you have to replace a $200 board to replace a $14 fan?
>
> Bottom line is that replacing a power supply, analog board, or digital board
> will likely cost more like $400 on average and from what I hear from the
> guys servicing Samsungs, replacing light engines is much more likely than,
> for instance, replacing a CRT.

Certainly there are other minor components, some of which may (rarely)
fail. Certainly service companies charge for their labor, making a
total repair bill higher than the cost of the parts. My information was
simply intended to put things into perspective. It is possible that a
service plan will pay for itself, just unlikely. If you can't afford
the repair, then buy the insurance.

But before you buy the service plan, consider whether you may be able to
be "self insured". That means you save the cost of the service
contract, but take the risk of paying for the repair yourself. On
average, you'll be far, far ahead if you can absorb that risk. A very
few owners will find that they do, in fact, wind up with an expensive
repair. The rest will come out way ahead.

There is no dispute about this: Service Plans are a HUGE profit center
for the retailers that sell them and for the insurers who hold the
policies. That huge profit comes from the difference between what you
pay for the service plan and what they have to pay out to make repairs.
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 1, 2004 12:09:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Jim Gilliland" <usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote in message
news:bbednXMDGqvw3sDcRVn-iA@adelphia.com...
> Leonard Caillouet wrote:
> >
> > Does the $200 for the boards other than the light engine include labor
and a
> > service call? Is that dealer cost or retail? Are you sure that there
are
> > not other parts that can fail that are not part of those assemblies? I
have
> > heard this claim about the cost of repairing the Samsungs before and
asked
> > these questions, but never get an answer... What happens if a fan,
safety
> > switch, or temperature sensor goes bad (most LCD and DLP sets have
several
> > of each and they have been some of the most common failures in most)?
Do
> > you have to replace a $200 board to replace a $14 fan?
> >
> > Bottom line is that replacing a power supply, analog board, or digital
board
> > will likely cost more like $400 on average and from what I hear from the
> > guys servicing Samsungs, replacing light engines is much more likely
than,
> > for instance, replacing a CRT.
>
> Certainly there are other minor components, some of which may (rarely)
> fail. Certainly service companies charge for their labor, making a
> total repair bill higher than the cost of the parts. My information was
> simply intended to put things into perspective. It is possible that a
> service plan will pay for itself, just unlikely. If you can't afford
> the repair, then buy the insurance.
>
> But before you buy the service plan, consider whether you may be able to
> be "self insured". That means you save the cost of the service
> contract, but take the risk of paying for the repair yourself. On
> average, you'll be far, far ahead if you can absorb that risk. A very
> few owners will find that they do, in fact, wind up with an expensive
> repair. The rest will come out way ahead.
>
> There is no dispute about this: Service Plans are a HUGE profit center
> for the retailers that sell them and for the insurers who hold the
> policies. That huge profit comes from the difference between what you
> pay for the service plan and what they have to pay out to make repairs.

I was not disputing this at all. In fact, I have stated many times that
extended warranties are usually NOT a good value. It is importance to
understand what the actual cost of repairs are likely to be. What I was
pointing out was that you seem to be estimating on the very optimistic side
of things...not a useful perspective, but a biased one that is stacked
against the decision to purchase the warranty. I think it is more important
to get real info. I asked some questions and still have not received
answers. Has anyone actually priced these repairs with a Samsung ASC to see
what they would actually charge out of warranty?

In the case of newer, expensive products that are likely to be serviced
primarily by board swapping, it is possible that extended warranties may be
worth considering. You have to do your homework and consider the details of
the particular product and warranty before coming to this conclusion.

Leonard
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 1, 2004 12:19:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 20:06:59 -0400, Jim Gilliland wrote:

> The bulb will not be covered. Rest assured that Service Plans bring in
> more profit to the retailer than any other item that they sell. That
> alone should tell you that it is in their interest, not yours.

What makes you say that the bulb isn't covered? When I bought a 50" Sony
LCD projection TV from Best Buy they said the bulb was covered.
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 1, 2004 12:40:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:34:39 GMT, "Badger"
<cferriola@1removenumbers2triad.3rr.4com> wrote:

>I don't believe THEY service anything. They contract it out. Their
>service policies didn't used to be theirs either, meaning that they
>sold a policy serviced by another company. I don't know if that's
>still true.

That's still true. Sears is the ONLY major retailer that performs
it's own warranty work. Sears employees wearing Sears uniforms,
trained by the individual manufacturers, driving Sears vans turn the
screwdrivers on all of the televisions they sell... when it comes to
selling & servicing appliances and electronics, Sears is a HUGE "mom &
pop" in that sense.
October 1, 2004 12:56:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"General Schvantzkoph" <schvantzkoph@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:p an.2004.10.01.12.19.38.873814@yahoo.com...
> On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 20:06:59 -0400, Jim Gilliland wrote:
>
>> The bulb will not be covered. Rest assured that Service Plans bring in
>> more profit to the retailer than any other item that they sell. That
>> alone should tell you that it is in their interest, not yours.
>
> What makes you say that the bulb isn't covered? When I bought a 50" Sony
> LCD projection TV from Best Buy they said the bulb was covered.

They lied to you. Sorry, but that's the truth. It's a consumable item,
like tires on a car. Call the number on the plan and ask, they'll tell you.
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 1, 2004 1:31:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

General Schvantzkoph wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 20:06:59 -0400, Jim Gilliland wrote:
>
>>The bulb will not be covered. Rest assured that Service Plans bring in
>>more profit to the retailer than any other item that they sell. That
>>alone should tell you that it is in their interest, not yours.
>
> What makes you say that the bulb isn't covered? When I bought a 50" Sony
> LCD projection TV from Best Buy they said the bulb was covered.

They'll "say" all sorts of things. Read the contract. It says
consumables are not covered.
October 1, 2004 3:06:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"curmudgeon" <curmudgeon@buzzoff.net> wrote in message news:<p__6d.6021$yp.4092@bignews1.bellsouth.net>...
> There is nothing to argue about. A bulb IS a consumable and not covered by
> any warranty.

I totally agree that most extended warranties are much more favorable
to the retailer than the customer, and in general I won't buy them.
However, in fairness to Best Buy, I *did* buy a 3-yr warranty with my
new Canon S400 digital still camera for two reasons: a) it *does*
cover both the original and the additional rechargeable battery I
purchased - both of which are clearly "consumables"; and b) I was told
the warranty would even cover damage if the camera accidentally fell
in the lake. Since I'll clearly have to replace both batteries within
3 years, it seemed like a no-brainer.

So - about 14 months later, the camera was dropped on concrete. The
lens tube was out at the time, and was bent at a 30-degree angle.
Obviously, the camera was trashed. I took it into Best Buy and showed
it to them. The tech took one look, said it was not repairable and
that they no longer carried the S400 model. So I was given full
credit for my original $500 cost and told to go pick out a
replacement. I walked out with a new 5-megapixel S500, which had
replaced the S400 for the same $500 cost. The whole transaction took
less than 15 minutes.

I'm still not a big believer in warranties, but this time was sure
glad I had it. You have to read the fine print re. consumables - some
cover these; most don't.

Rob
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 1, 2004 5:59:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Regarding this bulb/warranty issue, a salesman at Ultimate Electronics told
me that they used to sell two versions of their extended service (3 years)
plan for HDTV's, bulb-included & bulb not-included at a lower price. But
now, he said, they only have one plan, bulb-included, 3 years, $300. Can't
vouch for his accuracy. Salesmen are known to be wrong, and worse.

I would probably not buy an extended warranty, anyway. But to my way of
thinking, a non-bulb, lower-cost, extended warranty would be preferable. I
would rather buy a spare lamp and keep it in my closet in case the original
goes out since I can replace it, following the manual instructions, in a few
minutes. Why wait for a service tech to show up to do what I can do myself?

mack
austin


"Jim Gilliland" <usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote in message
news:BJqdndUypPmpwcDcRVn-jw@adelphia.com...
> General Schvantzkoph wrote:
> > On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 20:06:59 -0400, Jim Gilliland wrote:
> >
> >>The bulb will not be covered. Rest assured that Service Plans bring in
> >>more profit to the retailer than any other item that they sell. That
> >>alone should tell you that it is in their interest, not yours.
> >
> > What makes you say that the bulb isn't covered? When I bought a 50" Sony
> > LCD projection TV from Best Buy they said the bulb was covered.
>
> They'll "say" all sorts of things. Read the contract. It says
> consumables are not covered.
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 1, 2004 6:27:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:31:29 -0400, Jim Gilliland wrote:

> General Schvantzkoph wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 20:06:59 -0400, Jim Gilliland wrote:
>>
>>>The bulb will not be covered. Rest assured that Service Plans bring in
>>>more profit to the retailer than any other item that they sell. That
>>>alone should tell you that it is in their interest, not yours.
>>
>> What makes you say that the bulb isn't covered? When I bought a 50" Sony
>> LCD projection TV from Best Buy they said the bulb was covered.
>
> They'll "say" all sorts of things. Read the contract. It says
> consumables are not covered.

It doesn't say if a light bulb is a consumable the only thing specifically
mentioned is batteries. BB is making this representation to everyone,
several different salesmen said it to me and someone said it to the OP,
presumably in another part of the country. BB is inviting a lawsuit if
they don't honor these service contracts.
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 1, 2004 6:30:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:27:00 -0400, General Schvantzkoph wrote:

> On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:31:29 -0400, Jim Gilliland wrote:
>
>> General Schvantzkoph wrote:
>>> On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 20:06:59 -0400, Jim Gilliland wrote:
>>>
>>>>The bulb will not be covered. Rest assured that Service Plans bring in
>>>>more profit to the retailer than any other item that they sell. That
>>>>alone should tell you that it is in their interest, not yours.
>>>
>>> What makes you say that the bulb isn't covered? When I bought a 50" Sony
>>> LCD projection TV from Best Buy they said the bulb was covered.
>>
>> They'll "say" all sorts of things. Read the contract. It says
>> consumables are not covered.
>
> It doesn't say if a light bulb is a consumable the only thing specifically
> mentioned is batteries. BB is making this representation to everyone,
> several different salesmen said it to me and someone said it to the OP,
> presumably in another part of the country. BB is inviting a lawsuit if
> they don't honor these service contracts.

One more thing, I bought the service plan for my cell phone from them
because they said it covered batteries. My battery wore out and they
replaced it, no questions asked.
October 1, 2004 10:31:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Actually, on the PSP brochure it lists AIG Warranty Guard Inc. I went
to their website and it is the most convoluted mess I ever saw. The
information there is NOT aimed at the individual consumer. I was
hoping to find a number to call to ask about the bulb coverage, but no
such luck. (The 1-888 number listed on the front dialed directly to
Best Buy, not AIG).




Richard Ray <richardray@cox.net> wrote in message news:<nC77d.280255$4o.90580@fed1read01>...
> True. Best Buy sells warranties administered by NEW, National
> Electronics Warranty Corporation. Not knowing how they work for HDTV,
> but I can speak for my experience. My wife handles claims for DirecTV
> for them. Claims are scheduled with factory authorized contractors who
> install, set up, and provide warranty service. The contractor that came
> out to service our multi-satellite receiver knew his job and was
> finished promptly. We would have received the same treatment even if my
> wife didn't work for NEW, as she has to play the bad guy and send a tech
> out if there are still problems with a subscriber's equipment after they
> closed the job. And the tech gets paid by the job, not by the clock.
>
> HDTV-slingr wrote:
>
> > On 30 Sep 2004 16:54:29 -0700, jeremy@pdq.net (JDeats) wrote:
> >
> >
> >>DO NOT PAY BEST BUY MONEY FOR AN EXTENDED WARRENTY. Ever! Espeically
> >>not on a HDTV, something like this you'll want only an authorized
> >>service tech to touch your set should something go wrong.
> >
> >
> > Best Buy does not have service techs. Factory authorized (I would
> > assume) subcontractors perform warranty work on the electronic items
> > they sell.
> >
> >
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 2, 2004 12:20:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I think the way you have to think about extended warranties is not in terms
of one individual transaction, but rather in terms of the overall practice
of buying them -- or not buying them -- over a long period of time, for many
products. On average, over time, does the practice of buying extended
warranties pay off for you, or are you better off to just "self-insure"? I
believe that, over the long term, it is cheaper for me not to buy them.

You also have to consider special circumstances. If a product has some
problem that seems very likely to arise, then that may make buying the
extended warranty more rational in that circumstance. That is, if the
service you would get under the extended warranty would be of sufficient
quality. That can be hard to determine.

mack
austin


"Rob" <rvonder@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:f18ff6c4.0410011006.6f45fd15@posting.google.com...
> "curmudgeon" <curmudgeon@buzzoff.net> wrote in message
news:<p__6d.6021$yp.4092@bignews1.bellsouth.net>...
> > There is nothing to argue about. A bulb IS a consumable and not covered
by
> > any warranty.
>
> I totally agree that most extended warranties are much more favorable
> to the retailer than the customer, and in general I won't buy them.
> However, in fairness to Best Buy, I *did* buy a 3-yr warranty with my
> new Canon S400 digital still camera for two reasons: a) it *does*
> cover both the original and the additional rechargeable battery I
> purchased - both of which are clearly "consumables"; and b) I was told
> the warranty would even cover damage if the camera accidentally fell
> in the lake. Since I'll clearly have to replace both batteries within
> 3 years, it seemed like a no-brainer.
>
> So - about 14 months later, the camera was dropped on concrete. The
> lens tube was out at the time, and was bent at a 30-degree angle.
> Obviously, the camera was trashed. I took it into Best Buy and showed
> it to them. The tech took one look, said it was not repairable and
> that they no longer carried the S400 model. So I was given full
> credit for my original $500 cost and told to go pick out a
> replacement. I walked out with a new 5-megapixel S500, which had
> replaced the S400 for the same $500 cost. The whole transaction took
> less than 15 minutes.
>
> I'm still not a big believer in warranties, but this time was sure
> glad I had it. You have to read the fine print re. consumables - some
> cover these; most don't.
>
> Rob
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 2, 2004 9:22:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Jim" <jra@ncrb.org> wrote in message
news:fe23f062.0410011731.2a780951@posting.google.com...
> Actually, on the PSP brochure it lists AIG Warranty Guard Inc. I went
> to their website and it is the most convoluted mess I ever saw. The
> information there is NOT aimed at the individual consumer. I was
> hoping to find a number to call to ask about the bulb coverage, but no
> such luck. (The 1-888 number listed on the front dialed directly to
> Best Buy, not AIG).

Seems to me, you probably have to pay extra for "bulb coverage" and you have
to question if you really want it, anyway. The lamp is something that is
fairly likely to go out at some point but is easy to replace, following
instructions in your TV's manual. If you buy a spare one (about $200 for a
Sony RP-LCD HDTV lamp) and keep it on hand, you can get your TV up and
running in 10 minutes instead of waiting a week for the tech to get there.
If you are lucky and never need the spare lamp while you have the TV, it's
still sealed in the box and you can probably sell it on Ebay for much of
what you paid for it.

mack
austin
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 2, 2004 12:44:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"HDTV-slingr" <NOSPAMMERS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4inql0leurie3pvlahh2dneiofg6d41ih3@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:34:39 GMT, "Badger"
> <cferriola@1removenumbers2triad.3rr.4com> wrote:
>
> >I don't believe THEY service anything. They contract it out. Their
> >service policies didn't used to be theirs either, meaning that they
> >sold a policy serviced by another company. I don't know if that's
> >still true.
>
> That's still true. Sears is the ONLY major retailer that performs
> it's own warranty work. Sears employees wearing Sears uniforms,
> trained by the individual manufacturers, driving Sears vans turn the
> screwdrivers on all of the televisions they sell... when it comes to
> selling & servicing appliances and electronics, Sears is a HUGE "mom &
> pop" in that sense.

That does not mean that they are any good, nor that they are a good value
for service. In this market, I have had to go behind Sears techs who had
not a clue about how to deal with very routine service problems.

Consumers need to shop for service as carefully as for the products.

With respect to extended warranties, one should read the fine print, contact
the company that underwrites the contract, contact the servicer that
supports it, and be sure that they are both reputable, experienced,
accessible, and can answer the questions that need to be asked.

Leonard
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 3, 2004 1:11:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 08:56:12 -0400, "Rich" <rich@nospam.com> wrote:

}They lied to you. Sorry, but that's the truth. It's a consumable item,
}like tires on a car. Call the number on the plan and ask, they'll tell you.

BB replaced the lamp on my 40 inch Panasonic Rear Projection LCD in May
which was under their extended warranty (bulb blew literally on the 366th
day of the factory 1 year warranty period). I bought the extended warranty
because the salesman (their TV dept manager no less) said it was covered
and NOT a consumable. Note that Panasonic does cover their lamps for a full
year along with the warranty of the set itself. I specifically asked the BB
salesman if the lamp was considered a consumable as it is rated by the
manufacturer at 5000 hours (he said it was covered even if it smelled
funny).

According to the BB service tech, BB changed their corporate replacement
policy on lamps literally the week before -- nearly a year after I bought
the set. He said they were replacing them but it was costing them so much
money, they now consider it a consumable item and no longer covered. Due to
my complaining about being lied to they replaced it no charge this time
only (mainly due to the sympathetic service tech -- he called the local
store manager direct). Otherwise, I would have been out a $300+ lamp AND a
$300 extended warranty. Bottom line is the salesman will say anything to
get you to buy their warranty, so caveat emptor...

Read the BB extended warranty carefully. It is written so generic that they
can change almost anything at will, making ANY part they find to fail often
a consumable and hence not covered. Think about it this way, the normal TV
picture tube gets used up too, but over several years and not in 1000's of
hours...

What I did was this, I bought a replacement lamp off eBay for less than 1/2
the factory cost. It is here waiting for the replacement bulb to fail next
time. As for the extended warranty, I figure getting the lamp replaced once
paid for it but I still feel cheated and lied to. Had I known the set could
cost me nearly $300 a year in lamp replacements, I never would have bought
a $2400 rear projection set no matter how good the picture is...

Later,
Dave
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 3, 2004 1:15:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:27:00 -0400, General Schvantzkoph
<schvantzkoph@yahoo.com> wrote:

}It doesn't say if a light bulb is a consumable the only thing specifically
}mentioned is batteries. BB is making this representation to everyone,

You are correct. The BB salesman said even if the lamp smelled funny it was
covered (see my earlier post).

Later,
Dave
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 3, 2004 1:24:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

In article <f17eb878.0410022206.5b2d6ff2@posting.google.com>
funeguy0@lycos.com (Mr. Viagra) writes:


>Up until last week, I worked for Best Buy for 22 months in the Home
>Theater dept. For 22 months, I was placed under EXTREME pressure to
>sell their PERFORMANCE SERVICE PLAN to 'every customer, every time.'

>IMHO, BBY exaggerates to the extreme, the so-called 'need' for their
>PSP. The bottom line is that a $400 PSP costs BBY less than $100 and
>it is a HUGE source of revenue. I was instructed to 'tell the customer
>whatever was necessary' in order to close the sale for a PSP.

>Yes, things can go wrong after a mfg's warranty expires--but as long
>as the unit is protected by a high quality surge protector, the chance
>of anything failing is minimal on a high quality product. My advice
>would be: If you plan on keeping the set for more than 4 yrs and use
>it a lot, it might be worth considering--However, w/all the
>technologiical advances coming at such a rapid pace, you might be
>surprised that you'd be willing to 'upgrade' your set in 4 yrs, and do
>w/o handing BBY another $300 in pure profit.

Mr. V. is absolutely correct on all points.

....and it's not just Best Buy either. Sears, Circuit City, Tweeter,
independent retailers, etc., along with virtually all automobile
dealerships ***PUSH*** these plans because they are *extremely*
profit-laden. Minimum 100% markup, occasionally as much as 400%. In most
retail stores (Sears, etc) the salesperson's performance is measured not
so much by their gross volume of sales as it is by how many of these
service plans (extended warranties, maintenance agreements, etc) they are
able to sell to their customers. The product pretty much sells itself, or
your customer has already decided which one they want. Prices are already
cut to the bone due to local competition. Therefore, your job as
salesperson is to **SELL** the customer on the embellishments! Faten the
deal! Convince them that their new $2000 widget not only -might- melt but
no doubt *will* melt like chocolate on the stove if they don't protect it
right now with this plan!!! Their pay and bonuses (and even job tenure)
are in large part predicated on their ability to successfully sell the
contracts.

The "high quality" surge protector is an excellent idea, but what's he
mean by high quality? No one teaches a course in Quality Recognition
anymore, so how do you know what to buy? Hint: quality doesn't come cheap.

In my opinion, the several hundred you're going to piss away on some
"protection plan" might be much better spent on a sufficiently-sized UPS
(backup power supply) that includes over-voltage as well as under-voltage
protection, sometimes referred to as "Buck 'N Boost" technology. Buck 'N
Boost/sinewave UPS systems are considerably more expensive than the
el-cheapo hundred-dollar variety currently being sold at SAM's Club, but
are the only ones really worth having. Here is one example of a very
excellent UPS that I can personally recommend as being up to the task;
<http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID...;
total cost (including shipping) is $399.28 from buy.com in fact, here's
the link if you'd like to order one;
<http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10224166&Sear...;

I am not affiliated with this mfr or product or the retailer in any way.
Merely a very satisfied and very pleased customer.
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 3, 2004 5:36:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Thanks for clearing this up. I assume my bad experience with warrenty
repair work wasn't the fault of Best Buy. Staying on the subject,
there's still very little value in extended warrenties. From an
engineering standpoint, electronic products operate on a "bathtub
curve":

Life span of consumer electronic device, chance of failure:

High \ /
\ /
\ /
Low ------------
|****|
*extneded warrenty coverage

As is taught in any school of engineering, if anything serious is
going to go wrong (with any manufactured product relying on
components) it will happen near the begining or the end of the life of
the product. On consumer electronics products the acuracy of this
curve is somewhere between 75-85%. The majority of the time, the
chance of something going wrong is extreemly low, this makes the
decision to buy an extended warrenty a very bad choice for the
consumer and a very good thing for the retailer.

Having said that, instead of complicating their extended warrenties as
Best Buy does by making consumers wait 4-6 weeks and having strick
policies against exchanging product under extended warrenty. Some
retailers will take the opportunity to demonstrate outstanding service
when they are required to honor an extended warrenty. One such
retailer is Electronics Boutique/EB (popular mall outlet retailer for
computer and video games). Having worked as an assistant manager for
this chain, I am aware of their policies (which may have changed, it's
been six years). Electronics Boutique had a policy for extended
warrenties where if anything went wrong within the 3 year "extended
warrenty" period they would exchange old product for new (identical)
product, no questions ask and no waiting period.

Buy an extended warrenty at Best Buy and the best case you could hope
for is to wait four weeks to get back your product in working order.
Worse case, you're going to have to wait eighteen weeks (three six
week periods) and you'll be given someone elses "refurbished" product
at the end. You'll likely come in somewhere inbetween best and worse
case. Regardless, you're most likely giving the retailer free money.
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 3, 2004 9:23:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

MrFixit@msn.com (Mr Fixit) wrote in message news:<26vvl0h7a5eecclceo9hcg6uvcfpgcguu9@4ax.com>...
> In article <f17eb878.0410022206.5b2d6ff2@posting.google.com>
> funeguy0@lycos.com (Mr. Viagra) writes:
>
>
> >Up until last week, I worked for Best Buy for 22 months in the Home
> >Theater dept. For 22 months, I was placed under EXTREME pressure to
> >sell their PERFORMANCE SERVICE PLAN to 'every customer, every time.'
>
> >IMHO, BBY exaggerates to the extreme, the so-called 'need' for their
> >PSP. The bottom line is that a $400 PSP costs BBY less than $100 and
> >it is a HUGE source of revenue. I was instructed to 'tell the customer
> >whatever was necessary' in order to close the sale for a PSP.
>
> >Yes, things can go wrong after a mfg's warranty expires--but as long
> >as the unit is protected by a high quality surge protector, the chance
> >of anything failing is minimal on a high quality product. My advice
> >would be: If you plan on keeping the set for more than 4 yrs and use
> >it a lot, it might be worth considering--However, w/all the
> >technologiical advances coming at such a rapid pace, you might be
> >surprised that you'd be willing to 'upgrade' your set in 4 yrs, and do
> >w/o handing BBY another $300 in pure profit.
>
> Mr. V. is absolutely correct on all points.
>
> ...and it's not just Best Buy either. Sears, Circuit City, Tweeter,
> independent retailers, etc., along with virtually all automobile
> dealerships ***PUSH*** these plans because they are *extremely*
> profit-laden. Minimum 100% markup, occasionally as much as 400%. In most
> retail stores (Sears, etc) the salesperson's performance is measured not
> so much by their gross volume of sales as it is by how many of these
> service plans (extended warranties, maintenance agreements, etc) they are
> able to sell to their customers. The product pretty much sells itself, or
> your customer has already decided which one they want. Prices are already
> cut to the bone due to local competition. Therefore, your job as
> salesperson is to **SELL** the customer on the embellishments! Faten the
> deal! Convince them that their new $2000 widget not only -might- melt but
> no doubt *will* melt like chocolate on the stove if they don't protect it
> right now with this plan!!! Their pay and bonuses (and even job tenure)
> are in large part predicated on their ability to successfully sell the
> contracts.

> The "high quality" surge protector is an excellent idea, but what's he
> mean by high quality? No one teaches a course in Quality Recognition
> anymore, so how do you know what to buy? Hint: quality doesn't come cheap.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The suggestion of a power supply backup is excellent and in my
opinion, money much better spent than on $400 for a PSP.

Perhaps I need to clarify the use of the term 'high quality surge
suppressor'--

Surge prtection units are rated in 'Joules'--the higher the joule
rating, the greater protection. You can 'throw away' money for an
overpriced Monster Power Center, rated at around 1400 joules ($140) or
buy an 'Acoustic Research' also sold by BBY for $40, 2150 joules--both
have 'clean power filtering' to help
eliminate noise from the AC line. The A R is just as efficient as the
'comparable' Monster for $100 less--BBY cost on these units--The A R,
$16, the Monster, $70. I sold these things day-in, day-out--I know
from where I speak.
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 4, 2004 2:53:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 08:44:26 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet" <no@no.com>
wrote:

>> That's still true. Sears is the ONLY major retailer that performs
>> it's own warranty work. Sears employees wearing Sears uniforms,
>> trained by the individual manufacturers, driving Sears vans turn the
>> screwdrivers on all of the televisions they sell... when it comes to
>> selling & servicing appliances and electronics, Sears is a HUGE "mom &
>> pop" in that sense.
>
>That does not mean that they are any good, nor that they are a good value
>for service. In this market, I have had to go behind Sears techs who had
>not a clue about how to deal with very routine service problems.
>
Actually, if you look at the Consumer Reports online, you'll find that
Sears' servicing organization ranks #1. They are good and they know
what they're doing.

I'm not referring to the Sears extended warranty / "Maintenence &
Protection Agreement", just the abililty of the techs to perform the
work to factory standards. The techs aren't perfect but they're
ranked #1. Something to be said for that.
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 4, 2004 10:27:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"HDTV-slingr" <NOSPAMMERS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:65i1m0ls4ug72ic8u4ekjpc56dl35429eu@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 08:44:26 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet" <no@no.com>
> wrote:
>
> >> That's still true. Sears is the ONLY major retailer that performs
> >> it's own warranty work. Sears employees wearing Sears uniforms,
> >> trained by the individual manufacturers, driving Sears vans turn the
> >> screwdrivers on all of the televisions they sell... when it comes to
> >> selling & servicing appliances and electronics, Sears is a HUGE "mom &
> >> pop" in that sense.
> >
> >That does not mean that they are any good, nor that they are a good value
> >for service. In this market, I have had to go behind Sears techs who had
> >not a clue about how to deal with very routine service problems.
> >
> Actually, if you look at the Consumer Reports online, you'll find that
> Sears' servicing organization ranks #1. They are good and they know
> what they're doing.
>
> I'm not referring to the Sears extended warranty / "Maintenence &
> Protection Agreement", just the abililty of the techs to perform the
> work to factory standards. The techs aren't perfect but they're
> ranked #1. Something to be said for that.

Ranked #1 compared to what? The competition that a consumer has to choose
from did not get considered in those rankings. That is like saying that
Monster Cable is the #1 maker of overpriced cables. It doesn't mean that
what they are selling is a good value. Factory standards, BTW, is largely a
myth. Other than board swapping as a standard practice, Sears doesn't do
much of anything that maintains "factory standards." I have seen some
pretty lousy substitute parts used by Sears techs because they wanted to
"fix" the set without having to make a return trip rather than repair it
correctly.

One of the problems with a big system like Sears is that as soon as
something is encountered that is a little "out of the box" or not on the
troubleshooting chart, they become ineffective. Like shopping for
electronics, CU is not going to tell you much useful information.

Most service is still provided mostly by independent servicers and dealers
and you will find that, like Sears, the quality of the service varies from
terrible to excellent. It will depend mostly on the experience and
professionalism of the tech that happens to be doing the work. Most
experienced techs would not even consider working for Sears.

So how do you find the best service? It takes some effort and is not easy.
First, you need TALK to each shop. The ones that are any good will usually
be willing to discuss how they charge for repairs and what they will be
doing at each step in the process. They will have experience on your
specific product and have access to the service literature and test
equipment needed. They are likely to be an ASC for the manufacturer of your
product, but not necessarily. I recommend getting to know the local
servicers before you buy. Find out what the service options are on the
products you are considering and only buy products that you are confident
have good quality service support locally.

Otherwise, you can spend $96 for a service call from Sears only to have the
tech give you an estimate that your $250 problems will cost you $600 because
they want to swap boards rather than repair the problem. At least that's
what I have seen happen in our market.

The fact is that most servicers are pretty lousy, including Sears. There
will be a handful of good techs in most markets (some at Sears) and many
more who are half-assed yahoos that will do whatever it takes to get your
money as quickly as possible. Anyone who thinks a large service operation
like Sears is going to protect you from this reality is deluded.

Leonard
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 4, 2004 1:22:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

In article <qma8d.43352$aW5.17697@fed1read07> "Leonard Caillouet"
<no@no.com> writes:

[snip to the chase...]

>Otherwise, you can spend $96 for a service call from Sears only to have the
>tech give you an estimate that your $250 problems will cost you $600 because
>they want to swap boards rather than repair the problem. At least that's
>what I have seen happen in our market.

>The fact is that most servicers are pretty lousy, including Sears. There
>will be a handful of good techs in most markets (some at Sears) and many
>more who are half-assed yahoos that will do whatever it takes to get your
>money as quickly as possible. Anyone who thinks a large service operation
>like Sears is going to protect you from this reality is deluded.

Leonard makes some excellent points.

Almost any minimum-wage high school dropout, with little more than the
I.Q. of a common houseplant and only 15 minutes of training, can bench
your expensive system, follow a troubleshooting chart, swap an expensive
subassembly and charge you full price for the new board. It might get you
going, but that's not a "repair" and furthermore you just got hosed.

It is not at all uncommon for these shops to subsequently send out the
pullout boards, pay a flat rate of $50 each to actually get them
"repaired" (whether they're bad or not) and return them to inventory so
they can shotgun someone elses set and charge them $600 again.

Darn few "repair" shops are in existence anymore because those techs are
the true craftspersons and command a living wage. If you're fortunate
enough to find an honest-to-God "repair" shop, keep them in your Rolodex.
If you find that they actually specialize in servicing a specific brand,
or they recommend a certain brand, then that might be the brand you ought
to be considering.
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 4, 2004 1:50:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

In article <f17eb878.0410031623.7e8e63f0@posting.google.com>
funeguy0@lycos.com (Mr. Viagra) writes:


>The suggestion of a power supply backup is excellent and in my
>opinion, money much better spent than on $400 for a PSP.

>Perhaps I need to clarify the use of the term 'high quality surge
>suppressor'--

>Surge prtection units are rated in 'Joules'--the higher the joule
>rating, the greater protection. You can 'throw away' money for an
>overpriced Monster Power Center, rated at around 1400 joules ($140) or
>buy an 'Acoustic Research' also sold by BBY for $40, 2150 joules--both
>have 'clean power filtering' to help
>eliminate noise from the AC line. The A R is just as efficient as the
>'comparable' Monster for $100 less--BBY cost on these units--The A R,
>$16, the Monster, $70. I sold these things day-in, day-out--I know
>from where I speak.

Rule no. 1: Avoid "Monster" brand products - they are a ripoff and hype
Rule no. 2: See rule no. 1

If anyone bothered to follow the link I gave to a recommended backup power
supply, <http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID...; you
would have noticed that it provides 1800 Joules of surge protection with
an "instantaneous" response time and $200,000.00 worth of connected
equipment insurance. In other words, the manufacturer (TrippLite) is
pretty doggone sure this one single unit will give you all the protection
you might possibly need. Just *MAKE SURE* you also connect your TIVO
and/or Satellite receiver to the phone line protector.

If you want to spend $400 for a "protection plan" this device is the only
"plan" I would choose and provides the best bang for the buck. You will
definitely get your moneys worth out of this unit. In (typically) 4 to 6
years when the batteries need replacing, you can replace them for less
than $100 and get another 4 to 6 years out of it meanwhile your extended
warranty service plan will have long since expired and not be renewable.
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 4, 2004 4:34:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 06:27:32 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet" <no@no.com>
wrote:

>> >
>> Actually, if you look at the Consumer Reports online, you'll find that
>> Sears' servicing organization ranks #1. They are good and they know
>> what they're doing.
>>
>> I'm not referring to the Sears extended warranty / "Maintenence &
>> Protection Agreement", just the abililty of the techs to perform the
>> work to factory standards. The techs aren't perfect but they're
>> ranked #1. Something to be said for that.
>
>Ranked #1 compared to what? The competition that a consumer has to choose
>from did not get considered in those rankings.

Leonard, you make excellent points. I'm just stating the fact that
consumerreports.org has Sears ranked #1. Outside of that, I don't
have enough info to argue with you, only that most of the customers
I've personally dealt with seemed to be fairly to highly satisfied
with Sears' servicing techs, while a few others (every here and there)
are not satisfied at all. I guess it's just like anything else that
is consumer oriented... you can't please everybody all the time but
you can certainly try to and I believe Sears *tries*.
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 6, 2004 4:44:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Maybe this concept exists and I just don't know about it, but if it
doesn't it might be a great business opportunity for someone. The
concept is to be an independent repair (local) service that is
authorized to work on these various new HDTVs, but one that you don't
necessarily buy at the place where you bought the set.

I seems that without the rape and pillage prices that a BB,Tweeter, or
whomever charges you, an independent company could sell you the exact
same quality service plan for 50% of the normal $400-$500 and still
make a profit. It's basically an insurance policy. Whether or not
this could blossom into a franchise business is up in the air, but
everyone I know who has worked at an appliance store admits that the
profit margin in the extended warranty plans is in the hundreds of
percent.

OTH, you could also attempt to negotiate a lower price for the plan
when you buy, but if you don't have any competition, the store will
hold the best cards.

On 30 Sep 2004 09:57:18 -0700, jra@ncrb.org (Jim) wrote:

>Hi, we purchased a Samsung 61" DLP HDTV almost a month ago and we are
>still debating the purchase of the Best Buy Service Plan. We have
>some concerns, however:
>
>1) Our TV was purchased on sale for approx. $3800-3900, the service
>plan price quoted was $400 for 4 years. This seems high to me. Is
>it?
>
>2) Is Best Buy reliable with their service? ie. Will they do what
>they say? We are interested in knowing if anyone has had any
>experience with actually trying to get things fixed.
>
>3) We felt the sales manager was exaggerating with his stories of all
>that could go wrong, even in the first year, with these TV's. He had
>horror stories of possible $1500 repairs and such. At the minimum he
>suggested that the bulb would need to be replaced at least every 2
>years, which at $200/bulb would recoup the cost of the service plan.
>I question this. With a 6000 hour bulb life, say we watch a maximum
>of 5 hours/day on average, that gives us 1200 days which is over 3
>years.
>
>4) We are not even sure the service plan WILL cover the bulb as the
>sales manager claims. It does not specifically mention the bulb. It
>does offer "complete coverage if your product fails due to normal wear
>and tear/usage", BUT it also says "not covered are replacement costs
>for lost or consumable parts (knobs, remotes, batteries, bags, belts,
>etc.)" We are afraid they could argue that a bulb is a "consumable
>part".
>
>We are not naive enough to think that just because the sales manager
>says something is covered, that it is. I have read the performance
>plan brochure carefully, and unfortunately, it is written for a
>variety of products and not specifically for an HDTV.
>
>So, should we or shouldn't we? $400 is a lot of money and we don't
>want to throw it away. Thanks!
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 24, 2004 7:02:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"You're correct - Sears does their own warranty work with
factory-trained techs with experience on DLP's, LCD's CRT's, etc. As
I understand it, in some places, Sears techs actually perform the
warranty work under contract for other retailers. Those Sears vans
travelling around your town are carrying factory parts and
factory-trained Sears employees who are performing warranty repairs at
manufacturer standards. No other major retailer does this."

Wow, I din't know this at all.
Well, then why would people buy from anyone else?
I was on their website the other day, and i saw that they offer
price-matching + 10% of the difference.

I think my next TV is going to be coming from Sears...
How an you beat that?
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 25, 2004 12:39:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Lola" <hoppie_2k3@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9508a051.0410241402.539f3358@posting.google.com...
> "You're correct - Sears does their own warranty work with
> factory-trained techs with experience on DLP's, LCD's CRT's, etc. As
> I understand it, in some places, Sears techs actually perform the
> warranty work under contract for other retailers. Those Sears vans
> travelling around your town are carrying factory parts and
> factory-trained Sears employees who are performing warranty repairs at
> manufacturer standards. No other major retailer does this."
>
> Wow, I din't know this at all.
> Well, then why would people buy from anyone else?
> I was on their website the other day, and i saw that they offer
> price-matching + 10% of the difference.
>
> I think my next TV is going to be coming from Sears...
> How an you beat that?

Don't assume that Sears techs are any good, nor that they are very much
trained. Some may be but the vast majority are likely techs that can't cut
it elsewhere. We go behind them all the time and fix things that they
couldn't, wouldn't, or botched.

Leonard
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 25, 2004 3:31:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 20:39:40 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet" <no@no.com>
wrote:

>> Wow, I din't know this at all.
>> Well, then why would people buy from anyone else?
>> I was on their website the other day, and i saw that they offer
>> price-matching + 10% of the difference.
>>
>> I think my next TV is going to be coming from Sears...
>> How an you beat that?
>
>Don't assume that Sears techs are any good, nor that they are very much
>trained. Some may be but the vast majority are likely techs that can't cut
>it elsewhere. We go behind them all the time and fix things that they
>couldn't, wouldn't, or botched.
>
Maybe it's just in-store propaganda (every company has that) but they
tell us the customer satisfaction ratings for our techs is 97% out of
a possible 100%. Sears service also has an 86% "problem fixed on
first visit" record currently. Not perfect but respectable enough to
have Consumer Reports rate their service at #1.

Yesterday, one of our local techs was telling me that since we sell so
many different brands and models (almost 300 on display in my store -
one of our superstores), he often goes on a service call to work on a
TV he's never even seen the guts of. He explained to me that they are
directly "online" with the individual manufacturers' engineers in the
repair vans who instantly send the schematics to them for these
instances. They are talking on the phone with the manufacturer's
engineers as they are looking directly at the schematics for that
particular television. I found that to be quite an interesting
concept... but it works quite well!

Sure, mom & pop techs tend to be the best in the biz. It would stand
to reason that the best of the best would wish to go into biz for
themselves and make the BIG BUCKS instead of working for the largest
service and repair agency in the country. If one wants _the_ best
service, one should buy from their local "mom & pop". In our area,
you pay a lot more for the item and for the labor from a "mom & pop"
because they simply do not have the margins the Best Buys, the Circuit
Citys, or the Sears' have.

On the other hand, if you want to get a great price on your product,
buy from a big box and take advantage of their price-matching
policies. If you want to get a great price on your product AND get
some very decent and capable service from the same place, buy from
Sears or find a "mom & pop" who's willing to sell at little or no
profit on the front-end in hopes of winning your back-end buck. I'm
sure they're out there if you can wheel and deal and if you can find
an open-minded "mom & pop" in your area. Like I said, these don't
exist in my own metro area.
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 25, 2004 3:31:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"HDTV-slingr" <NOSPAMMERS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bvuon0pit2uj6qhevddc13h8bbdr34up7k@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 20:39:40 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet" <no@no.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> Wow, I din't know this at all.
>>> Well, then why would people buy from anyone else?
>>> I was on their website the other day, and i saw that they offer
>>> price-matching + 10% of the difference.
>>>
>>> I think my next TV is going to be coming from Sears...
>>> How an you beat that?
>>
>>Don't assume that Sears techs are any good, nor that they are very much
>>trained. Some may be but the vast majority are likely techs that can't
>>cut
>>it elsewhere. We go behind them all the time and fix things that they
>>couldn't, wouldn't, or botched.
>>
> Maybe it's just in-store propaganda (every company has that) but they
> tell us the customer satisfaction ratings for our techs is 97% out of
> a possible 100%. Sears service also has an 86% "problem fixed on
> first visit" record currently. Not perfect but respectable enough to
> have Consumer Reports rate their service at #1.
>
> Yesterday, one of our local techs was telling me that since we sell so
> many different brands and models (almost 300 on display in my store -
> one of our superstores), he often goes on a service call to work on a
> TV he's never even seen the guts of. He explained to me that they are
> directly "online" with the individual manufacturers' engineers in the
> repair vans who instantly send the schematics to them for these
> instances. They are talking on the phone with the manufacturer's
> engineers as they are looking directly at the schematics for that
> particular television. I found that to be quite an interesting
> concept... but it works quite well!
>
> Sure, mom & pop techs tend to be the best in the biz. It would stand
> to reason that the best of the best would wish to go into biz for
> themselves and make the BIG BUCKS instead of working for the largest
> service and repair agency in the country. If one wants _the_ best
> service, one should buy from their local "mom & pop". In our area,
> you pay a lot more for the item and for the labor from a "mom & pop"
> because they simply do not have the margins the Best Buys, the Circuit
> Citys, or the Sears' have.
>
> On the other hand, if you want to get a great price on your product,
> buy from a big box and take advantage of their price-matching
> policies. If you want to get a great price on your product AND get
> some very decent and capable service from the same place, buy from
> Sears or find a "mom & pop" who's willing to sell at little or no
> profit on the front-end in hopes of winning your back-end buck. I'm
> sure they're out there if you can wheel and deal and if you can find
> an open-minded "mom & pop" in your area. Like I said, these don't
> exist in my own metro area.
>
Purchasing a service contract from a company who admits their technicians
aren't trained on many of the items they sell (because there's just too many
differnt models to choose from) doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence.
That might work for a treadmill or a dishwasher but not something like a
HDTV,
I looked into Sears earlier this year and when I asked them if part of the
set up and warranty was a professional calibration they said no it wasn't.
In fact all they would guarantee is that a broken set would be restored to
factory specs and settings. They don't even offer calibrations

Ed.
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 25, 2004 8:04:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:55:13 -0800, "Ed T"
<ed.wilson@acsalaskanospam.net> wrote:

>
>"HDTV-slingr" <NOSPAMMERS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:bvuon0pit2uj6qhevddc13h8bbdr34up7k@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 20:39:40 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet" <no@no.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> Wow, I din't know this at all.
>>>> Well, then why would people buy from anyone else?
>>>> I was on their website the other day, and i saw that they offer
>>>> price-matching + 10% of the difference.
>>>>
>>>> I think my next TV is going to be coming from Sears...
>>>> How an you beat that?
>>>
>>>Don't assume that Sears techs are any good, nor that they are very much
>>>trained. Some may be but the vast majority are likely techs that can't
>>>cut
>>>it elsewhere. We go behind them all the time and fix things that they
>>>couldn't, wouldn't, or botched.
>>>
>> Maybe it's just in-store propaganda (every company has that) but they
>> tell us the customer satisfaction ratings for our techs is 97% out of
>> a possible 100%. Sears service also has an 86% "problem fixed on
>> first visit" record currently. Not perfect but respectable enough to
>> have Consumer Reports rate their service at #1.
>>
>> Yesterday, one of our local techs was telling me that since we sell so
>> many different brands and models (almost 300 on display in my store -
>> one of our superstores), he often goes on a service call to work on a
>> TV he's never even seen the guts of. He explained to me that they are
>> directly "online" with the individual manufacturers' engineers in the
>> repair vans who instantly send the schematics to them for these
>> instances. They are talking on the phone with the manufacturer's
>> engineers as they are looking directly at the schematics for that
>> particular television. I found that to be quite an interesting
>> concept... but it works quite well!
>>
>> Sure, mom & pop techs tend to be the best in the biz. It would stand
>> to reason that the best of the best would wish to go into biz for
>> themselves and make the BIG BUCKS instead of working for the largest
>> service and repair agency in the country. If one wants _the_ best
>> service, one should buy from their local "mom & pop". In our area,
>> you pay a lot more for the item and for the labor from a "mom & pop"
>> because they simply do not have the margins the Best Buys, the Circuit
>> Citys, or the Sears' have.
>>
>> On the other hand, if you want to get a great price on your product,
>> buy from a big box and take advantage of their price-matching
>> policies. If you want to get a great price on your product AND get
>> some very decent and capable service from the same place, buy from
>> Sears or find a "mom & pop" who's willing to sell at little or no
>> profit on the front-end in hopes of winning your back-end buck. I'm
>> sure they're out there if you can wheel and deal and if you can find
>> an open-minded "mom & pop" in your area. Like I said, these don't
>> exist in my own metro area.
>>
>Purchasing a service contract from a company who admits their technicians
>aren't trained on many of the items they sell (because there's just too many
>differnt models to choose from) doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence.
>That might work for a treadmill or a dishwasher but not something like a
>HDTV,

Ed, they're in a joint-venture with the original manufacturer. If
they can't fix the problem, they replace the set. The manufacturer's
engineers train the Sears techs and they stay in direct contact with
them. In the vast majority of the calls, the set is fixed on the
first visit. In the remaining cases, the set is replaced, or if parts
need to be ordered, a rental tv of equal comparison is paid for while
waiting for the parts. What more do you want?


>I looked into Sears earlier this year and when I asked them if part of the
>set up and warranty was a professional calibration they said no it wasn't.
>In fact all they would guarantee is that a broken set would be restored to
>factory specs and settings. They don't even offer calibrations

Sears apparently does offers calibrations. It costs $179.99 above and
beyond the standard set up and delivery fee. See your salesman for
more information.
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 25, 2004 10:08:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"HDTV-slingr" <NOSPAMMERS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bvuon0pit2uj6qhevddc13h8bbdr34up7k@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 20:39:40 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet" <no@no.com>
> wrote:
>
> >> Wow, I din't know this at all.
> >> Well, then why would people buy from anyone else?
> >> I was on their website the other day, and i saw that they offer
> >> price-matching + 10% of the difference.
> >>
> >> I think my next TV is going to be coming from Sears...
> >> How an you beat that?
> >
> >Don't assume that Sears techs are any good, nor that they are very much
> >trained. Some may be but the vast majority are likely techs that can't
cut
> >it elsewhere. We go behind them all the time and fix things that they
> >couldn't, wouldn't, or botched.
> >
> Maybe it's just in-store propaganda (every company has that) but they
> tell us the customer satisfaction ratings for our techs is 97% out of
> a possible 100%. Sears service also has an 86% "problem fixed on
> first visit" record currently. Not perfect but respectable enough to
> have Consumer Reports rate their service at #1.
>
> Yesterday, one of our local techs was telling me that since we sell so
> many different brands and models (almost 300 on display in my store -
> one of our superstores), he often goes on a service call to work on a
> TV he's never even seen the guts of. He explained to me that they are
> directly "online" with the individual manufacturers' engineers in the
> repair vans who instantly send the schematics to them for these
> instances. They are talking on the phone with the manufacturer's
> engineers as they are looking directly at the schematics for that
> particular television. I found that to be quite an interesting
> concept... but it works quite well!
>
> Sure, mom & pop techs tend to be the best in the biz. It would stand
> to reason that the best of the best would wish to go into biz for
> themselves and make the BIG BUCKS instead of working for the largest
> service and repair agency in the country. If one wants _the_ best
> service, one should buy from their local "mom & pop". In our area,
> you pay a lot more for the item and for the labor from a "mom & pop"
> because they simply do not have the margins the Best Buys, the Circuit
> Citys, or the Sears' have.
>
> On the other hand, if you want to get a great price on your product,
> buy from a big box and take advantage of their price-matching
> policies. If you want to get a great price on your product AND get
> some very decent and capable service from the same place, buy from
> Sears or find a "mom & pop" who's willing to sell at little or no
> profit on the front-end in hopes of winning your back-end buck. I'm
> sure they're out there if you can wheel and deal and if you can find
> an open-minded "mom & pop" in your area. Like I said, these don't
> exist in my own metro area.

I'd be willing to bet that the best techs in your area are not at Sears.
Look for the local independent servicers who are factory authorized for a
given brand or who service a lot of that brand. Sears techs have no access
to tech reps and documentation that other ASCs don't have. It might sound
impressive to be able to access schematics online while on the job, but it
is only a matter of being authorized to do so and having a computer.

When it comes to price, Sears service in our area is no bargain. They are
mostly board swappers even on things that can be fixed much much less
expensively with a little troubleshooting. As for percentage of fixes on
the first trip, I'll bet that includes declined estimates that other shops
go behind and fix for half the cost, after Sears has charged $96 for a
service call to guess at which board needs to be changed. I just did
another of these last week.

Leonard
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 25, 2004 10:20:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"HDTV-slingr" <NOSPAMMERS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tdfpn0p3dagjf3hdfb1tv7j0bsg1stuul2@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:55:13 -0800, "Ed T"
> Ed, they're in a joint-venture with the original manufacturer. If
> they can't fix the problem, they replace the set. The manufacturer's
> engineers train the Sears techs and they stay in direct contact with
> them. In the vast majority of the calls, the set is fixed on the
> first visit. In the remaining cases, the set is replaced, or if parts
> need to be ordered, a rental tv of equal comparison is paid for while
> waiting for the parts. What more do you want?

You keep touting Sears' techs being factory trained. What does this mean?
"Factory Trained" can mean lots of things. I was at the only factory
training offered recently for a major manufacturer sold by Sears and there
were exactly zero Sears techs there. Sony offers classes on line that we do
every couple of months and I rarely see a Sears tech on the list of
attendees. From what I have heard from former Sears techs, their "factory
training" is mostly hype. Why don't you check it out.

Leonard
October 25, 2004 11:38:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Leonard Caillouet wrote:
>
> "HDTV-slingr" <NOSPAMMERS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:tdfpn0p3dagjf3hdfb1tv7j0bsg1stuul2@4ax.com...
> > On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:55:13 -0800, "Ed T"
> > Ed, they're in a joint-venture with the original manufacturer. If
> > they can't fix the problem, they replace the set. The manufacturer's
> > engineers train the Sears techs and they stay in direct contact with
> > them. In the vast majority of the calls, the set is fixed on the
> > first visit. In the remaining cases, the set is replaced, or if parts
> > need to be ordered, a rental tv of equal comparison is paid for while
> > waiting for the parts. What more do you want?
>
> You keep touting Sears' techs being factory trained. What does this mean?
> "Factory Trained" can mean lots of things. I was at the only factory
> training offered recently for a major manufacturer sold by Sears and there
> were exactly zero Sears techs there. Sony offers classes on line that we do
> every couple of months and I rarely see a Sears tech on the list of
> attendees. From what I have heard from former Sears techs, their "factory
> training" is mostly hype. Why don't you check it out.
>
> Leonard

I've checked it out, and they get Sears-specific classes from the factory.

What do you recommend instead of Sears?

At least Sears will backup up their warranty -- if they can't fix it, or if
there are more than 3 failures of the same part, they replace the set w/ a new
(equivalent) set. I speak from experience, they couldn't fix an intermittent
screen blank problem on a top of the line Hitachi RPT that developed near the
end of my 3 year contract, so the told me to go an pick out something new at
the store based on my original $4000 purchase price. Got a brand-new Hitachi
60" LCD projection set, couldn't be happier. Not many service contracts are
willing to do a $4000 replacement that I'm aware of...
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 25, 2004 3:38:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 06:20:02 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet" <no@no.com>
wrote:

>> On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:55:13 -0800, "Ed T"
>> Ed, they're in a joint-venture with the original manufacturer. If
>> they can't fix the problem, they replace the set. The manufacturer's
>> engineers train the Sears techs and they stay in direct contact with
>> them. In the vast majority of the calls, the set is fixed on the
>> first visit. In the remaining cases, the set is replaced, or if parts
>> need to be ordered, a rental tv of equal comparison is paid for while
>> waiting for the parts. What more do you want?
>
>You keep touting Sears' techs being factory trained. What does this mean?
>"Factory Trained" can mean lots of things.

Leonard, I'm not arguing with you. Call 1-800-4-my-home and demand to
speak to a tech if you want to know the answer to that. All I do is
sell the tv's and somebody else twists the screwdriver on them. They
may or may not be the world's best techs but we're the only big box
that has them and they seem to impress most everybody who isn't a
competing "mom & pop" tech in my own personal experience.
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 25, 2004 4:51:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

The only thing I would buy from Sears is craftsmen tools.
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 25, 2004 5:10:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"HDTV-slingr" <NOSPAMMERS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:lkaqn01jo7hdr3q1nv2d6323bq4nfpdsjv@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 06:20:02 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet" <no@no.com>
> wrote:
>
> >> On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:55:13 -0800, "Ed T"
> >> Ed, they're in a joint-venture with the original manufacturer. If
> >> they can't fix the problem, they replace the set. The manufacturer's
> >> engineers train the Sears techs and they stay in direct contact with
> >> them. In the vast majority of the calls, the set is fixed on the
> >> first visit. In the remaining cases, the set is replaced, or if parts
> >> need to be ordered, a rental tv of equal comparison is paid for while
> >> waiting for the parts. What more do you want?
> >
> >You keep touting Sears' techs being factory trained. What does this
mean?
> >"Factory Trained" can mean lots of things.
>
> Leonard, I'm not arguing with you. Call 1-800-4-my-home and demand to
> speak to a tech if you want to know the answer to that. All I do is
> sell the tv's and somebody else twists the screwdriver on them. They
> may or may not be the world's best techs but we're the only big box
> that has them and they seem to impress most everybody who isn't a
> competing "mom & pop" tech in my own personal experience.

I don't mean to argue, but when you repeat the hype like "factory trained"
it leaves an impression that IME is unjustified.

BTW, at the last training that I went to where there were no Sears techs,
there were a bunch that work for Best Buy.

Leonard
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 25, 2004 5:33:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:10:56 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet"
<nospam@noway.com> wrote:

>I don't mean to argue, but when you repeat the hype like "factory trained"
>it leaves an impression that IME is unjustified.

Sorry, Leonard, I'm not a tech so I'm not aware of the sematics of the
techhie terms so if I'm abusing any of those, please just correct it
and give me a pass.

In your other post, you said the Sears techs are most likely to just
swap out a board and go on their way. As a consumer, I'm trying to
understand why that is a bad thing. I bought my Sony from Sears and
it's still under warranty. If the thing fails, I call Sears service,
a service tech comes out, takes the back off the TV, swaps out a board
in 10 minutes, puts it back together and it works.... then I'm a happy
camper! Why would I have a problem with that?

If rebuilding a diode takes 3 hours and swapping out a board takes 10
minutes, again, as a consumer, I'm just fine with that and in fact
would be happier with the latter.
>
>BTW, at the last training that I went to where there were no Sears techs,
>there were a bunch that work for Best Buy.
>
Best Buy doesn't have any service techs on the payroll, they are
outside contractors. Again, Sears is the only big box retailer with
employees on the payroll who perform the warranty work.

To Best Buy's credit, have you seen their addition of the "Geek
Squad"? I don't know if they are employees or contractors but they
will be going on calls to customers' homes to hook up DVD players,
computers, etc. (not actually performing technical repairs or anything
like that), for a fee.

What a great idea, if it's reasonably priced. I know Sears charges a
regular service call fee to go do stuff like that, which would cost an
arm and a leg.

I have a feeling BB's "Geek Squad" will help boost their sales (which
they hardly need... lol). I love the name!
Anonymous
a b Ô Samsung
October 26, 2004 2:40:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Julie" <julie@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:417D0FD6.B57D1D50@nospam.com...

> I've checked it out, and they get Sears-specific classes from the factory.

On what products? How often? What percentage of their techs get them?

>
> What do you recommend instead of Sears?

I recommend that you ask some tough questions of Sears or any servicer. You
should check out all of the options and you will likely find that the best
tech for your set is not at Sears. If you do, and the prices are
reasonable, then you should use Sears. In most markets you will find better
techs fixing sets more effectively at lower prices at independent servicers
and independent dealers who service what they sell. You have to shop for
service just like you shop to buy the product.

> At least Sears will backup up their warranty -- if they can't fix it, or
if
> there are more than 3 failures of the same part, they replace the set w/ a
new
> (equivalent) set. I speak from experience, they couldn't fix an
intermittent
> screen blank problem on a top of the line Hitachi RPT that developed near
the
> end of my 3 year contract, so the told me to go an pick out something new
at
> the store based on my original $4000 purchase price. Got a brand-new
Hitachi
> 60" LCD projection set, couldn't be happier. Not many service contracts
are
> willing to do a $4000 replacement that I'm aware of...

Virtually any reputable dealer can sell you a service contract that will do
the same. You have to shop and ask the tough questions, but you can usually
do better than the service contract at Sears. Like everyone else, margins
at Sears are much higher on service contracts than on the product.
Negotiate and read the fine print.

Chances are pretty good that Hitachi would have done the same if the set
could not be fixed. There was a customer that we serviced a while back that
had a set nearly three years old that had a problem that could not be fixed
and we arranged for them to exchange it for a new model for the customer.
The set was purchased at Circuit City and there was no extended warranty.
Over the years I have administered hundreds of thousands of dollars of
repairs on products out of the warranty period that manufacturers have
covered, including replacing entire sets as old as 5 years. I have also
seen extended warranty companies do the same thing. Most of the better
policies have a "lemon" clause.

Sears may have the best deal. They might have the best option for service
in some cases. To assume so without exploring the options is just what they
want you to do. It is also foolish.

Leonard
October 26, 2004 2:40:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Leonard Caillouet wrote:
>
> "Julie" <julie@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:417D0FD6.B57D1D50@nospam.com...
>
> > I've checked it out, and they get Sears-specific classes from the factory.
>
> On what products? How often? What percentage of their techs get them?
>
> >
> > What do you recommend instead of Sears?
>
> I recommend that you ask some tough questions of Sears or any servicer. You
> should check out all of the options and you will likely find that the best
> tech for your set is not at Sears. If you do, and the prices are
> reasonable, then you should use Sears. In most markets you will find better
> techs fixing sets more effectively at lower prices at independent servicers
> and independent dealers who service what they sell. You have to shop for
> service just like you shop to buy the product.
>
> > At least Sears will backup up their warranty -- if they can't fix it, or
> if
> > there are more than 3 failures of the same part, they replace the set w/ a
> new
> > (equivalent) set. I speak from experience, they couldn't fix an
> intermittent
> > screen blank problem on a top of the line Hitachi RPT that developed near
> the
> > end of my 3 year contract, so the told me to go an pick out something new
> at
> > the store based on my original $4000 purchase price. Got a brand-new
> Hitachi
> > 60" LCD projection set, couldn't be happier. Not many service contracts
> are
> > willing to do a $4000 replacement that I'm aware of...
>
> Virtually any reputable dealer can sell you a service contract that will do
> the same. You have to shop and ask the tough questions, but you can usually
> do better than the service contract at Sears. Like everyone else, margins
> at Sears are much higher on service contracts than on the product.
> Negotiate and read the fine print.
>
> Chances are pretty good that Hitachi would have done the same if the set
> could not be fixed. There was a customer that we serviced a while back that
> had a set nearly three years old that had a problem that could not be fixed
> and we arranged for them to exchange it for a new model for the customer.
> The set was purchased at Circuit City and there was no extended warranty.
> Over the years I have administered hundreds of thousands of dollars of
> repairs on products out of the warranty period that manufacturers have
> covered, including replacing entire sets as old as 5 years. I have also
> seen extended warranty companies do the same thing. Most of the better
> policies have a "lemon" clause.
>
> Sears may have the best deal. They might have the best option for service
> in some cases. To assume so without exploring the options is just what they
> want you to do. It is also foolish.
>
> Leonard

My 3 year service contract on a $4000 set w/ Sears was $199. It is a waste of
my time and money to do any more research at that price. At the end of the 3
years, the set, out of warranty, moves up to the bedroom and I head back to the
store for the latest and greatest.
!