Athlon 64 3500+ 939 and GeForce 8800GTS problem

phreakindee

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I just bought a EVGA GeForce 8800GTS for my older system, thinking it would be a step up from my 7600GT. It certainly should be, but it's almost running worse! Games such as Dark Messiah and FEAR have horrible stuttering problems as bad as when I had my 7600GT.
It'll be running about 60fps and then something starts loading whenever I turn a corner and it freezes up and the sound stops for a second or two.

I run Windows Vista 32 bit, don't know what this plays into my issues either, but it didn't run so great on XP either!

Simply put, which parts do I need to upgrade for the best results? CPU? RAM? Mobo?
I just want the stuttering to stop! Any advice is appreciated.

Specs are 450W Asys PSU, Athlon 64 3500+ 939pin Venice, ASRock 939Dual-SATA2 mobo, 1GB Corsair ValueSelect PC3200, Seagate 160GB SATA2 7200rpm
 

nightscope

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I would guess that the CPU is bottlenecking the video card. Also, FEAR is a very CPU hungry game. You get a slightly better CPU, and you'll notice the difference in performance. I would suggest thinking about upgrading to a Core 2 Duo or AM2 platform in April when the price cuts take place.
 

phreakindee

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I would suggest thinking about upgrading to a Core 2 Duo or AM2 platform in April when the price cuts take place.

I'll keep that in mind as I've been meaning to go to AM2 for a while now, it's just that to do that I'll need another mobo and then DDR2 RAM to go with it and budget's kind of slim right now.

As far as the Asys PSU, is it possible for it to kill performance? I don't even know what kind of rails it has, if at all.
 

nightscope

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I would suggest thinking about upgrading to a Core 2 Duo or AM2 platform in April when the price cuts take place.

I'll keep that in mind as I've been meaning to go to AM2 for a while now, it's just that to do that I'll need another mobo and then DDR2 RAM to go with it and budget's kind of slim right now.

As far as the Asys PSU, is it possible for it to kill performance? I don't even know what kind of rails it has, if at all.

I wouldn't think it would affect the performance much, since it seems sufficient. What are the 12v rails set at? Check the label on your PSU and let me know.
 

Wolfshadw

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Actually, this is an issue that I'm curious about as well, given that I have the same board. I was looking into another hyrbid board for a question in a different forum was reminded of the ASRock VGA Compatibility lists. For our boards the list is small. I assume this is because the list hasn't been updated. I'm wondering if these newer graphic cards require a BIOS update in order for them to work on these boards...

-Wolf ponders.
 

phreakindee

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all i see on my PSU is "+12v -- 18A (yellow)"

wolf, that is a good point too. ive updated my bios a while back to the latest version and it helped with my 7600GT, it could be a matter with the 8800 as well. is your system pretty well stable though, i mean have you run into any of these stuttering issues, as i see you have double the RAM and a better CPU
 

Wolfshadw

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Nope. No stuttering, but I did have an issue when I first dropped in the 7800GS (AGP) that I believe is due to an inferior power supply. Underclocking the graphics card by 10% remedied the "No Signal" black-out/System locks.

When I picked up the board, last July, the first thing I did was flash the BIOS to the latest version available at the time.

-Wolf sends

Edit: Since the underclock, the system's been rock solid. Recently upgraded to a 22" widescreen monitor (1680x1050) and still get 40FPS in CoH (City, not Company).
 

nightscope

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Yep, your power supply isn't the problem. Like I said before, it's probably your CPU that is bottlenecking your card since FEAR is very CPU intensive.
 

Scougs

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What you described makes it sound like you are running out of RAM and caching to virtual memory to me. Make sure that you close any unecessary programs before running games to free up as much memory as possible.

If you can, while the game is running (not just in the menus, but with a level loaded and everything) minimize it and look in the task manager to see how much Page File you are using. If you are close to or over 1GB, then lack of memory is your problem.
 

nightscope

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I may be mistaking about the bottlenecking, I just assumed that since most CPU benchmarks use FEAR as one of their games to test since it relies on the CPU mostly. Furthermore, this shows the difference from using an Athlon x2 5000+ and your Athlon 3500+:

http://tomshardware.co.uk/cpu/charts.html?modelx=33&model1=489&model2=465&chart=170

As you can see, there's roughly a difference of 18-20 fps between the processors (take notice that the game doesn't use two cores, so it's mainly the difference of the speeds of the processors and yes, the memory also, but that's at best a 2-4% percent boost).

But yes, as stated above, check your memory usage. If you have any scans (or any other programs that are eating away your memory), they can GREATLY decrease your fps. If that's not the case, defrag (as stated above) your hard drive, and IF that's not the case either, then maybe you need to run some virus/spyware/adaware scans and check your computer. And if THAT'S not it, then I would assume that it is bottlenecking.
 

endyen

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The biggest difference between Vista and XP, hardware wise, is the amount of ram required.
If you are saying that the problem is a lot worse with Vista, I'd guess memory is the problem.
 

Scougs

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The biggest difference between Vista and XP, hardware wise, is the amount of ram required.
If you are saying that the problem is a lot worse with Vista, I'd guess memory is the problem.

Good point. Somehow I overlooked the fact that he was using Windows Vista.
Insufficient memory is almost certainly the problem. An upgrade to 2GB would almost certainly improve performance. A CPU limitation wouldn't cause sudden stuttering like that. It would just limit the maximum FPS and could bog down in heavy action/detail regions.
 

Scougs

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How is a 450W PSU with a single 18A +12v rail good enough to power that system? There is no way it can support that system. At least not for very long. It will end in disaster.

You guys may be right about the PS being too weak to operate reliably for long, but I still think that the performance issue he is facing is due to too little RAM. With Vista, 1GB is definately not an overabundance.
 

reader850

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MPilch is right. Also, once he gets a decent PSU, he should overclock the CPU to 2.5 at least. His 3500+ Venice should overclock easily, though I don't know that motherboard's OC capabilities. Don't buy more DDR RAM, it will be wasted when you upgrade and need DDR2. If a new PSU and overclocking don't help, I'd try reloading windows with a new install of WinXP plus ONLY the necessary drivers and your game, then see if it runs smoothly (with the new PSU and overclocked CPU). If so, then add VISTA to see if that causes the problem (it may want too much RAM). If WinXP clean doesn't work, then give up and upgrade to a C2D. But personally, I'd put off the upgrade as long as possible, since prices are dropping and maybe AMD will have something worth waiting for in early '08. Maybe you could even skip over DDR2 entirely, to DDR3. (That is my dream.)
 

HA_ZEE

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I just purchased an Ultra infinity power supply today. It says 350 watts on the box and when I checked the 12v rail it has...18 amps. The only thing I intend to use it for is an old Athlon XP 3000 with a 9800 pro. There is no way it would power up a 8800 GTS (it's tongue wouuld be hanging) LMAO.
 

rickpatbrown

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would inadequate power cause decrease performance or would it cause the card to completely crash? It sounds like this guy needs to upgrade just about everything.
 

Grimmy

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Pretty much. It isn't healthy to keep pushing the PSU like that. I've seen some PSU heat up very hot from simply having too many components (my early years :lol:).

Clearly the PSU can't give the power needed when the system is under load. That card does need 26 amps on the rail it is on, from what I remember reading on requirments for a GTS card. If it is in SLI mode, if memory serves, the amps should be around 32.

I pretty much agree with mpilchfamily. It is very likely, when that PSU goes, it may take out other components.
 

Grimmy

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Gah... 50 amps?? holy mother of god!! :lol:

Ya, I guess I had the GTX mixed up in my mind (7900?). I didn't look it up, due to my laziness and well.. it's 4:53 am. :lol:
 

Dahak

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I recommend either getting a faster processor or over clock the 3500.Either way you'll get a performance boost.You really should also consider purchasing another power supply.The 450watt might do it,but I somehow don't think it's good enough for the 8800gts.I would go with nothing less than a 550watt w/30amps on the 12v rail.Just to be safe.Goodluck.Oh ya,Vista sucks for games right now.You should re-install XP,and that stuttering should go away.And try installing another gig of ram.Some games do like to use a gig of system memory.

Dahak

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Grimmy

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I'm not that great in teaching PSU ratings. But I'd like to try to understand the situation better, for myself, and perhaps others. Correct me if I'm wrong, plz. :D

Using the PSU Cal - I only put in (what was on the 1st post, plus DVD recorder) the CPU/RAM/1HD/2-512MB RAM/DVD recorder

At 100% TDP that is 172Watts

Now if the 8800GTS is wanting 26A, that would be 26x12=312 watts?

If I understand, the PSU wants to balance that out, so its kinda like balancing things on a seesaw.

Adding 172+312=484Watts

But since is 12v is at 18amps, which is 216watts plus 172, is it only capable of 388 watts? which would indicate that it is not sufficient, since it is short of 400? And would also mean he is really pushing that PSU beyond it's limit?
 
It is an old psu. Its crap, throwing that much at the 5 volt. Im running a 420 watt enermax, 18 amps PER rail, duo rail, at 29 amps peak for both. Im also running a 1900 xt 512 mb. My system BARELY covers this. Tho its very similar to his. I agree with you. The 8800 gts draws more than my 1900xt. His psu is severly inferrior to my enermax, which like I said barely covers my system. His system draws more simply BECAUSE of the 8800. The going around corner thing I dont know about, but I do know that there have been posts recently discribing this same thing happening with a 8800. The OP was finally convinced to go and get a new psu. IT WORKED. And btw, he also had a very similar setup nuff said