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Can I MOVE my router successfully....?

Last response: in Networking
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January 19, 2007 10:56:57 PM

okay, i'm not going to lie, i'm pretty confused and also pretty frustrated. so i'll try to keep this post kinda short, but i have more information as required.

so we have dsl in my house, and one router, its (although irrelevant) a BEC technologies 7402gt or something like that. so anyway, we have it wired in my parents room, and as you can imagine, that is quite frustrating. i finally have the option to reclaim my computer and move it to my room, and here's the problem: wiring.

there is no easy way to run actual ethernet cable from the router, if it was left in its current location. so i decided to actually move the router and save myself the trouble. i figured, it works off just phone line, so it'll work fine. so it didn't work, and i've tried multiple times to rewire the phone jack to the way the one it CURRENTLY is on is wired. and boy is that frustrating with those iddy biddy wires..... anyway, my question is, is it POSSIBLE to rewire my phone jack...? or am i S.O.L.?

thank you first of all just for reading, i'm quite pissed about this whole thing, but if you for any reason need some more specifics feel free to ask.
January 20, 2007 10:42:48 PM

Any properly wired phone jack will work. What you need is the spliter used to connect the dsl modem to the line. I have seen some modems sensitive to polarity. Radio Shack and others have phone line testers for ~$10.
January 20, 2007 10:53:37 PM

Quote:
Any properly wired phone jack will work. What you need is the spliter used to connect the dsl modem to the line. I have seen some modems sensitive to polarity. Radio Shack and others have phone line testers for ~$10.


yeah, see, there's the problem, my house was wired wrong 8O

so my jack worked with phone, but my house was wired wrong (there are shorts somewhere).... so shouldn't the router just work right then in that phone jack? well, it didn't. when the dsl guy came, he had to rewire the current jack to work the router. so what i attempted to do was rewire MY jack like the working one. should work in theory, has yet to in practice. so what does this tester test, exaclty? is it worth my investment? does it test the polarity like you mentioned?

i believe my mother called my isp and they said like, "oh, routers are jack-specific." thats total crap, right? i'm thinkin they want me to buy another router 8O but it shouldn't matter, right....?!

oh well, thank you for the reply. could you elaborate on this splitter? i do think i heard something about them when the dsl guy came (even tho i wasn't home when he did)..... is the splitter.... ah n/m could you explain it to me?
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January 20, 2007 11:05:11 PM

These testers do test parity.

Your modem should work if plugged in with out the splitters if you do not need a phone.

If you check where your phone line enter the house you will find a box. The newer boxes have test ports for the phone company to check the incoming line. And in some houses all of or part of the house wiring terminates there. So it's possiable the dsl is not connected to all of the jacks to save on filters. So you can disconnect the line then work with a house wiring with a tone generator. This will allow you to trace wires.
January 21, 2007 3:03:48 PM

mmmh yeah our house was cheapo so they probably didn't allow dsl to all parts of the house.... and my room being farthest away just kinda adds to that.... nuts. thats not cool. GHA.

so if everything was wired correctly, hypathetically, and a specific jack had a working phone on it, the dsl SHOULD work also if it is allowed on that line? well i'm getting frustrated.... i still wish i could just leave the router and run actual ethernet cable, but that'd be tough also.... maybe i'll just wait till we get fiberoptic. we're supposedly wired for it, and there's a big fiber optic box, but my question is, what kinda cabling does it need? coax?

i'll go look for my box, maybe later, see if i can figure that out. stupid cheapo house......
January 21, 2007 4:23:07 PM

I have FIOS installed in my house. Have all 3 services, TV, Phone & internet. The way it works is the FO transceiver requires power to work. They then make 1 drop with a cat5e cable, this is where you want your router setup. At that point a coax connection is made to the TV rg6. This is for PPV and Video on demand.

I have been through may houses correcting phone wiring. It was more criticle when modems were used. If you had phone jack that was wired wrong and connected kicked noise on the ground side. Having all jacks wired correctly improved the dialup speed. For old Analog systems it doesn't matter, digital it does.

In a real world you should be able to connect DSL to any phone jack and ant works. I have done many repairs for friends and neighbors.
January 21, 2007 4:43:23 PM

yeah, thats what pisses me off, it SHOULD work, but DOESN'T, so now i get to probe the limitless possible causalities of this problem.... sux. so i'm not sure who i could ask, do you know a way to tell if the line is filtered correctly for dsl? i really hope we can switch to FO, not only because its so cool, but because hopefully we'll get a better deal on it. this dsl we get is almost as much as cable 0_o but we're supporting the local "little guy" so i guess its not all bad.... kinda.....

i can't believe this is not working. i'm going to rewire the jack to its original config, and then try again, but if that doesn't work, i'm just going to assume that its not filtered correctly and revert to the illustrious plan "b".... whatever that is.

so with FO do you have a good tv service? i don't have time to watch, but thats like all my dad does after work, so i'm wondering if he'd like it or stick with digital cable? oh well, i'm all for switching EVERYTHING to FO, but we'll see how that goes.
January 21, 2007 5:02:11 PM

If you house was not wired during construction like mine. Look at the box on the side of the house. It's highly possiable they did not connect the all of the wires and swapped colors (polarity). Most of the time phone lines are daise changed from 1 box to the next. So it requires you to go to every wall jack to check all connections.

I did discover at 1 site I was out that the modem was polarity sensitive. The installed swapped the wires at the outside box. I made the change and every thing worked. Once a jack is confirmed wired correctly plug in the dsl/modem and see if it sees the signal. Takes several minutes for some to detect.

So spend $10 for a phone line tester or 15 for a net/phone line tester. The go through all your jacks. If you have 2 lines get a 2line tester. I have seen installers swap pairs too.
January 31, 2007 2:47:05 PM

I'm going to disspell some DSL mis-information here, as I worked heavily on DSL setup and troubleshooting at the Telco/ISP I worked for.

1. If you have DSL coming into your house on 1 phone line, it only rides on 1 physical wire of the 2-wire pair.

2. If your house was wired incorrectly, that probably just means that the colors of the wires are switched, as even your phones may not work properly if it wasn't. In order for the DSL to work in your parents room, that means the tech made 1 thing absolutely sure: that there was a direct line from the DSL router on the correct wire (we'll say wire 1) all the way to the Demark (the box where the inside/outside wiring meets up along with the test jack) to the Telco's wire 1, no matter what actual color the line is. coloring is to help tech's setup wiring in standard ways, it's not actually affecting how things work.

3. As far as why the other jack doesn't work, I think of a few possibilities. One is that the wires are crossed, but that would really start screwing with your phones too, so the Second possibility I can think of is that they wired a DSL filter into your house wiring.

4. DSL filters work by cancelling out DSL noise, only so that you can plug in a phone, fax, dialup modem, etc into a phone jack and not get the DSL static. DSL needs to stay unfiltered in order to work properly. Check anywhere you can see the phone wiring, basement or etc. to see if there is a small white box tied into your phone line, might say DSL filter or DSL conditioner, or not anything at all. if it's wired in, it's a good possibility the tech hadn't thought you might want to plug it into other jacks and filtered the rest out, not thinking you'd want to move the router.

5. what makes me think this is that they said it was tied to a certain phone jack, which is bunk.

6. Only 1 DSL router can be on a DSL line at a time, but any DSL router compatible with your ISP can be configured to connect and it would be fine to use it from any jack by default, as long as there were no DSL filters on the line inside your house.

7. Wiring can be done by going to Home Depot, Compusa, Micro Center, or any place that sells anything to do with phone/network wiring that would sell what's called a punch-down tool. that's what takes the frustration out of getting jack wiring in place.

see if any of this helps you out, let me know if you have any further questions.
January 31, 2007 9:17:15 PM

thank you very much for such a comprehensive post. it really helped a lot. so up to this point it time, i've put a halt on the router-moving; however your post has convinced me to keep trying. i still feel pretty in over-my-head, but i really think that if i work this out atleast PHYSICALLY by myself, it will be an amazing feat and a great learning experience.

so, anyway, first an observation. when i was comparing the wiring of my parent's phone jack to mine, i noticed that there appeared to be two large wires coming to their jack. thats kind of unclear, so let me try to explain better. there are two large blue tubes coming in, that contain all the lil phone lines. i can't tell you for sure at this point whether those main tubes have the same colored wires, but i have noted that some wires go to one port on the jack, and some to the others. i believe even a few go to both. however, in my phone jack, there is only one such blue tube containing wires. is this significant? i fear it is.

so i'm interested in this punch-out or punch-down, i will certainly look into that this weekend, as well as maybe a wiring book to help. but at this point in time, i've reverted the wiring of MY jack to its original state, and now have a working phone plugged up to it. i really am not sure about the white box of which you speak, but i will look for that asap. i did look in one of the two or three boxes on the outside of my house, and saw what i thought was a test jack. can i use this to my advantage somehow?

i also saw a place that was labeled DSL, and it had two wires coming out (the colors that i rewired my jack to), and one had a green sticker under it and the other a red. so i tried to get my polarities right on my jack, and tried a bunch of combinations, but to no avail.

is there any way that i can wire a filter in like RIGHT on my jack? are filters really big? i know this is a total misconception, heh, but i'm just picturing coffee filters. i know thats absolutely irrelivant and a horribly wrong image of a "filter," but i thought it was funny.
February 2, 2007 1:58:45 PM

a store bought filter is about the size of a pack of gum with 1 end that plugs into your wall outlet, and another that you plug your phone cord into. They're usually about 10 dollars and there is also a wall version that looks like a flat plate that makes your wall-mounted telephone stick out from the wall about 1/2 to 1" further from the wall.

The coffee filter image made me laugh, btw.
February 2, 2007 10:36:51 PM

Quote:
a store bought filter is about the size of a pack of gum with 1 end that plugs into your wall outlet, and another that you plug your phone cord into. They're usually about 10 dollars and there is also a wall version that looks like a flat plate that makes your wall-mounted telephone stick out from the wall about 1/2 to 1" further from the wall.

The coffee filter image made me laugh, btw.


YES! you don't know how happy that makes me. so do you think, with the limited information that i am able to provide with my lack of experience (sry), that a filter will work? should i rewire my jack again to the setup that it is in my parents room, or try it just the way it is now first, currently wired with a working phone? i'll also look into a punch-down this weekend, but i've got some soccer stuff going on so i may not be able to. i must say that you've reignited my drive, though! yay!

yeah, i knew that coffee filter was so horribly wrong, but it just popped into my mind. like i don't think of myself as stupid, but thats the second time thats happened to me recently. the other time was an image of a massive ground-type (actual BUS) airbus when we were talking about omnibus bills in civ... lol. my class thinks i'm so baked now after saying that :cry: 
February 3, 2007 1:19:53 AM

Hey dude, I'd say you would probably want to leave it alone unless you can find any of those filters on the line. I would take off those filter/s and then you could try to mess with the wiring. don't try testing the DSL router anywhere unless you're sure that the phone works off that jack 1st

(better a cheap phone than an potentially more expensive router) not that the wrong wiring would hurt anything, as phone signal isn't strong enough...but I've seen crazy things happen when customers would do their own thing.
February 3, 2007 5:14:46 PM

awh nuts. damn. maybe i won't go for that then. okay so how can i get intarweb in my room then? alls i want to do is hook my computer up to my JBLs.... :( 

if we went to fiber optic, which we're "wired" for, does that run on coax and could i just get it from my cable line in my room? because i wanna stay away from that infernal phone jack.

can you think of any other ways to get intarweb in my room?
February 4, 2007 3:50:32 AM

Wireless. If you have a working DSL router, it might have wireless built in. if not, buy a wireless router. that would plug into the DSL, and you could plug a wireless card into your comp to get the connection that way.
February 4, 2007 5:11:10 PM

yeah, but i hate wireless. especially because i play games every once in a while. i just really am spoiled with my stable, fast, nice wired internet... should i just run some ethernet cable through the house? i'll be really tough, but i don't really see any alternatives.
February 4, 2007 5:57:17 PM

have your ISP send a tech out to fix the wiring in your house so your room or all rooms can have the DSL router hooked up.
February 4, 2007 6:09:38 PM

yeah, well, that goes back to the first point: i don't understand what they can do that i can't try to figure out and do myself for FREE. but i was thinking about that, and i think i'll go for it. because i'm tired of messing around, don't wanna brick my router, and yeah. its like $50 an hour, tho, and that sux... why i wanted to do it myself. they better be able to fix it, because if they don't i'll slap a hoe... just kidding. well thank you for all your help!
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