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A Beginner's Guide For WaterCooling Your PC - Page 2

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Last response: in Systems
March 28, 2007 6:39:47 PM

Further to mr_fnord's suggestions, I would say that I am very interested in hearing more about the potential drawbacks of liquid cooling. So far I understand:

Cost
Complexity of installation
Risk of leaks

I'm fairly comfortable with those, and that probably has to do with my familiarity with them. Questions I'm still not sure about, which prevent me from thinking liquid cooling is viable for my own use are:

What's required for maintenance?
What are the failure modes?
- What can be done to prevent damage in case of failure?

The first question you allude to already in your first page, but I still don't know what I'm going to need to do on a regular basis while using a liquid cooled computer. As well, I leave my computers running 24/7 and under constant load. What risks do I take leaving a liquid cooled computer unsupervised? Is pump failure a big concern? What about spontaneous leakage? What can I do to make sure anything that goes wrong with the cooling system doesn't result in damage to expensive electronics?

I think these were the main questions of mine that I would like answered if/when you put out an update to the primer.

Cheers,

HotFoot
March 28, 2007 7:08:38 PM

Quote:
Further to mr_fnord's suggestions, I would say that I am very interested in hearing more about the potential drawbacks of liquid cooling. So far I understand:

Cost
Complexity of installation
Risk of leaks

I'm fairly comfortable with those, and that probably has to do with my familiarity with them. Questions I'm still not sure about, which prevent me from thinking liquid cooling is viable for my own use are:

What's required for maintenance?
What are the failure modes?
- What can be done to prevent damage in case of failure?

The first question you allude to already in your first page, but I still don't know what I'm going to need to do on a regular basis while using a liquid cooled computer. As well, I leave my computers running 24/7 and under constant load. What risks do I take leaving a liquid cooled computer unsupervised? Is pump failure a big concern? What about spontaneous leakage? What can I do to make sure anything that goes wrong with the cooling system doesn't result in damage to expensive electronics?

I think these were the main questions of mine that I would like answered if/when you put out an update to the primer.

Cheers,

HotFoot


I'm no expert in WC, but there are some important issues that must be taken account, regarding to risks:

- Corrosion:

This is a major issue, cause it can damage your pc, as corrosion will impact on the heat dissipation and can lead to leaks.
The major cause for corrosion is oxidation, due to the appearance of algae in the system (hot water tends to make life appears... :x). This can be prevented using a biocide along with the coolant.
Other thing that can lead to corrosion is the use of Aluminium and Copper water blocks in the same loop. These metals along with water create a chemical reaction that may lead to corrosion.

- Leaks:

One thing that should have been mentioned in the article is to test your setup before mounting on the motherboard. Just set all outside of the case and run in to make sure there are no leaks.
The use of non-conductive coolants diminish the possibility of major issues if a leak happens as well, the con is that these usually have worse heat transference that water and distilled water (which is the best for wc).
If a leak happen and your pc gets wet, turn it off imediately and wait for 24 hours before turning it on, so you can make sure it has dried up you can use a hair blower to dry it also). Even then, your PC may not come back to life.
March 28, 2007 7:36:10 PM

Quote:

What's required for maintenance?
What are the failure modes?
- What can be done to prevent damage in case of failure?


Maintainance mostly consists of paying attention, inspecting the coolant regularly for contaminants that would indicate corrosion, and replacing the coolant once in a while (every year or so).

Talking about the danger of mixing aluminum/copper components is something I'd definitely include if I could re-write the piece, the only real regret I have is not mentioning it.

Failure modes... not sure what you mean by that. There would be two main types of failure though, either the coolant would stop pumping or it would begin to leak.

If it stops pumping, there are failsafes. As I mentioned there are options that will shut your PC down in the event of overheating, hell most people have them in the motherboard's BIOS temperature monitor. But there are others, in the case of the EXOS2 you can wire it to the power switch of the mobo to shut down in case of failure.

Leaking... well, that's more of a problem. In the first place an ounce of prevention would equal a ton of cure, you should be very careful when setting up to make sure your fittings are tight & proper.

If it actually decides to leak, well, that's a pickle. you could get non-conductive coolant if it was a real worry for you - if that leaks it won't harm the system. Or you could mount the motherboard in such a way that leaking coolant wouldn't touch the mobo, but that's pretty extreme. But if leaking conductive coolant actually happens there's not too much you can do, there's probably going to be some dead hardware.
Related resources
March 28, 2007 8:00:43 PM

Quote:
Wikipedia has a good article about heatpipes, and explains how they can work over a broader range than the working fluid at atmospheric pressure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heatpipe

An interesting comparison would be heatpipes v watercooling. Heatpipes have many orders of magnitude greater thermal capacity in their operating range, but water coolers have much more effective dissipation with their external radiators.


Thanks for the link. I had never heard of heat pipes before - I like the idea of the thermosiphon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermosiphon

I wonder how big it would have to be to be effective?
Anyone know if this has been tried on a PC processor?
March 28, 2007 8:02:32 PM

Cool, thanks!
March 28, 2007 8:02:59 PM

Quote:

Maintainance mostly consists of paying attention, inspecting the coolant regularly for contaminants that would indicate corrosion, and replacing the coolant once in a while (every year or so).

Talking about the danger of mixing aluminum/copper components is something I'd definitely include if I could re-write the piece, the only real regret I have is not mentioning it.


Well, you can add a part two and write about it. :D 
I really enjoyed your article (text was objective, nice written and easy to understand) and would like to see a series on it. :) 

You could write next a "Dangers and Pitfalls of watercooling".
Then a "How to choose a setup: going with a kit or a DYI?", where you could review some kits and add some comparisons with some member's DIY setup. Also could discuss the diferences of a setup with a single loop and Y conectors or a 2 pump/loops setup.
You could also write an article on coolants and tubing (diferences in coolants, water and distilled water, impact of tubing on flow).

One article that would really be great would be something on pumps...how does it work, how to choose for your setup, etc.
March 28, 2007 8:05:25 PM

I like that idea. Oh, and once you're done, package it all together and call it a book! I'm being serious, not sarcastic.
March 28, 2007 8:10:41 PM

Quote:
Thanks for the link. I had never heard of heat pipes before - I like the idea of the thermosiphon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermosiphon

I wonder how big it would have to be to be effective?
Anyone know if this has been tried on a PC processor?


The phase-change thermosyphon is very similar to the heatpipe, but it requires gravity for liquid feedback. There is such a cooler on the market: the Asetek VapoChill Micro. The big difference is the lack of a wick inside the tubes, and the diameter of the tubes. I suppose that, technically, a thermosiphon would have a separate return path, to form a loop instead of a pipe, but that might just fall under design variation.
March 28, 2007 8:13:55 PM

Actually, I'm thinking of writing an article specifically on the VGA card cooling - stock cooling VS premium air cooling (Thermalright HR-03), vs. water cooling - and really hone in on that.

To be honest, I prefer to split up complex subjects into more than one article...

It's difficult to make an article accessible to the masses if you make it too cumbersome, or delve too deeply into the minutia. That's why articles targeted at an uninformed audience rarely work with the knowledgable audience, and vice versa.

I've written articles that focus on a small part of PC tech, and they get great feedback from the hardcore, but newbs find them intimidating and don't even read them. So there's always a balance you have to strike, you have to really know what you're trying to accomplish and focus on it. But you can't please everybody, someone's always going to want more - or less - than you give. Part of the writing biz I suppose. :) 
March 28, 2007 8:23:55 PM

Quote:
Actually, I'm thinking of writing an article specifically on the VGA card cooling - stock cooling VS premium air cooling (Thermalright HR-03), vs. water cooling - and really hone in on that.

To be honest, I prefer to split up complex subjects into more than one article...

It's difficult to make an article accessible to the masses if you make it too cumbersome, or delve too deeply into the minutia. That's why articles targeted at an uninformed audience rarely work with the knowledgable audience, and vice versa.

I've written articles that focus on a small part of PC tech, and they get great feedback from the hardcore, but newbs find them intimidating and don't even read them. So there's always a balance you have to strike, you have to really know what you're trying to accomplish and focus on it. But you can't please everybody, someone's always going to want more - or less - than you give. Part of the writing biz I suppose. :) 


Yeah...I know, you can never please everyone. But you can always increase the complexity with a "chapter" format. Start easier for the uninformed ones and increase gradually, until you can reach the knowledgeable crowd. This way you not only post info that appeals to all sometime, but you create a bigger knowledgeable crowd. (mmm...I think that this is what they call a course ;) ... lol).
March 28, 2007 8:37:44 PM

Besides the fact that the graphs are not there, lol. Is that not an overkill of a PSU lol.
March 28, 2007 8:40:33 PM

Quote:
Is that not an overkill of a PSU lol.


Yeah, that 1200w beast is crazy. I'm running it against two other 1200 watters - thermaltake's and E-power's - in an upcoming PSU review.
March 28, 2007 9:24:33 PM

Quote:
Is that not an overkill of a PSU lol.


Yeah, that 1200w beast is crazy. I'm running it against two other 1200 watters - thermaltake's and E-power's - in an upcoming PSU review.

I'll handle the 2000w microwave review once you complete that.
March 28, 2007 10:24:24 PM

Non Conductive Fluids like FluidXP suck.
They leave residue and eventually become conductive later on as they pick up ions from the blocks.
Distilled water is great as long as you clean out the parts before running water through them. Because of residue from the machining process isnt cleaned out. Alcohol 91% and distilled water is great to clean stuff up.

Mixing metal is a no no... either stick with copper and brass or get all aluninum.

Another thing... Its better to pick your own parts. Koolance being a good company, doesnt have the best blocks or best radiator for the money.
They also use weak pumps and small ass tubing that slows down flow.
Low flow = low performance...
And check out all those 90 degree metal elbows around the blocks... those kill flow as well.

Frankly that setup is pretty crappy... The tubes could've been cut shorter, less tubes = better performance. Even if it takes cutting a few holes in the case it'll increase performance.

I put together these parts,
CoolerMaster Stacker - case
yate loon fans cheap fans that push alot of air and are silent.
Fuzion Dtek - CPU water block
MCW60 - GPU water block
Some Memory heatsinks
PA120.3 radiator - Thermochill
EK resviour - which feeds the pump
DDC+ Pump
some Tygon 1/2in 2075 tubing www.mcmaster.com
Distilled water of course,
and some algecide

All that cost me only... $350
And it gets better performance than Koolance's setup.

You can read more at the forum.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=...
March 28, 2007 10:42:25 PM

I keep coming across statements that 90 degree bends and smaller tubing significantly restrict flow and reduce performance, but I've never seen data to back it up. There have been threads where I've shown, at least analytically, there to be negligible impact of using smaller tubing and 90 degree bends. The restriction to the flow in good water blocks is great enough that the losses in the tubing should be negligible.

A 90 degree bend in 3/8" tubing causes about 1/50 the head loss as a Swiftech Strom waterblock. Say you have a system with 10 90 degree bends, which is a lot: the flow degredation due to the bends is still small compared to only one of the functional loop components.

If there is some emperical data on the subject, I would be very interested to read more on the subject.
March 28, 2007 10:49:24 PM

Quote:
Once again, this is a primer for the uninitiated, not a how-to overclocking article. It's also not a premium air cooling vs. water cooling article....
If you guys would like to see a premium air cooling vs. water article, let me know and I'll consider it for the future. :) 


It's just that if you are considering water cooling you aren't new to the PC world, and the only reason you would want to try water is if the aftermarket air coolers aren't cutting it for you. Quietness wouldn't get involved for the price.

So to compare Intel's stock cooler against water isn't really useful. Kinda like comparing a Veyron to a Camry. It would be better to see how more effective water is than what the best air coolers can do. Like how the Tesla roadster should be compared against gasoline sports cars, not the EV1.

Also, how did you measure these temps? 62C on a Core2Duo measured in the core through TAT isn't a problem, it would be if that were through the BIOS or a program that reads the BIOS temp, like MBM.
March 28, 2007 10:55:40 PM

Nice article. I don't want to get involved in the drama that seems to be unfolding here (at least no "fanboi" comments yet), but I have a few comments.

I've never tried water cooling before, I have looked into it, but the cost, work, and dangers associated with it have always been a deterent. This article makes it sound pretty easy, and I feel confident that with this, and numerous other (often more technical and in depth) articles, I could do this myself.

The only thing missing from this article is a comparison of the sound output of the 2 setups (air / water). More overclocking benches would have been nice, but the thermal charts pretty much speak for themselves. A list of common problems or some links to other more technically detailed articles would have been a nice addition also.

To me this article is pretty much "A Beginner's Guide For WaterCooling Your PC", so it gave me pretty much exactly what I expected. I didn't expect any crazy in depth benches or elaborate water cooling comparisons, just a simple explaination and an example of how to do it.
March 28, 2007 10:56:14 PM

The point isn't at all the few benchmarks. Those are just there to demonstrate the aforementioned pro side of watercooling. If you want to know how well watercooling stacks up against good air coolers there's plenty of those types of reviews around.
March 28, 2007 11:02:35 PM

Quote:
It's just that if you are considering water cooling you aren't new to the PC world, and the only reason you would want to try water is if the aftermarket air coolers aren't cutting it for you. Quietness wouldn't get involved for the price.


I am considering water cooling my system pretty much for the sole purpose of having a quiet PC. As long as it cools better than the stock HSF, that's good for me. Overclocking potential is good too, but for me, not the main purpose of water cooling.
March 28, 2007 11:09:25 PM

For quietness I know of two water cooling systems that have no fans at all. There's the Zalman Reserator (v2 is best) and one by Silverstone that looks pretty sharp. Either of these should do as well as a high-end air cooler, but at several times the price.

For silence, you could also go with a fanless CPU cooler. I used a TT SonicTower on my Pentium D for months in fanless mode. You do need a case with good airflow and room enough to fit the cooler: it's 150mm tall.
March 28, 2007 11:18:12 PM

I basically had the same setup as cleeve about 2 years ago, except my Exos was integrated into the case. I didn't have the WC'd PSU either, but overall on the lowest setting it was damn quiet, barely audible. At high it got moderately loud but no where near what I have heard form some air coolers.

--Kurz

I would love to know how less tubing means better performance. Less tubing would lead to less total water which would lead to a quicker change in overall water temp probably, but I don't see it changing the overall cooling performance.
March 28, 2007 11:50:56 PM

All of the reading that I have done on watercooling, especially in forums, has always led me to believe that it is better and usually cheaper to just build your own setup. Is this true?
March 29, 2007 12:01:37 AM

Great article for the masses, newbies, and the curious. Well written, informative, thorough, and accessible. Good job Cleeve!


I do think that a "series" of articles would be fantastic. Not only would it provide more info, but also greater depth of info that would appeal to the variety of newbies/enthusiasts. The series could progressively cover more info, and more in depth of specialty areas as well.

This would solve a number of comments/complaints at the same time, provide more info that can't be done in simply one article, and hook readers to come back to Tom's for more and more. Can't argue with increased readership, right? ;) 
March 29, 2007 12:19:38 AM

Quote:
All of the reading that I have done on watercooling, especially in forums, has always led me to believe that it is better and usually cheaper to just build your own setup. Is this true?



If you do your research it will yield a better result, yes.

There are numerous threads (as you have no doubt read) and people always willing to help/comment right before you purchase, if you decide you want a second opinion. :) 
March 29, 2007 5:00:06 AM

Quote:
Non Conductive Fluids like FluidXP suck.
They leave residue and eventually become conductive later on as they pick up ions from the blocks.

Any details/proof to back that up? If FluidXP were to eventually pick up ions, then so would distilled water.
March 29, 2007 8:13:32 AM

Koolance has been making some nice water cooling gear for a while, I really like the water-cooled PSU, but I have tended to avoid using Koolance because they don't use 1/2" connections in their systems. Wider diameter tubing will let you push more water over a given distance, carry more heat away and helps both the radiator and pump work better.

It's one reason why I think Swiftech and DangerDen are a better choice. Although their products may seem less "turnkey" than the Koolance Exos, they build some top-notch equipment, including peltier systems, and scale all the way up to extreme multi-block/multi-radiator cooling set-ups.

While I understand the nature of the article was a beginners guide, it may be nice to do an "advanced" guide that can showcase the full potential of water cooling, and I don't mean extreme overclocking. With the complete line of products that these manufacturers offer, its now possible to build a system in which pretty much every heat-generating part is now water cooled!!!

Done properly, such a setup would demonstrate nicely the noise, thermal and performance advantages that the best water cooling equipment can give.
March 29, 2007 9:29:08 AM

Water cooling looks nice and all but I would probably have trouble with it.

Is it viable to have watercooling in a lanning machine that gets carted around about once a week(in the passenger seat of a bakkie/ute)?
And I like sticking my fingers in the pc alot.... I have lots of old equipment that I throw in every now and then, of course i wouldn't need to touch the cpu/nb, but the graphics card will be pulled out every now and then. Will it be much more of a hassle...can I even take the gfx card out?
March 29, 2007 12:18:03 PM

Quote:
Is it viable to have watercooling in a lanning machine that gets carted around about once a week(in the passenger seat of a bakkie/ute)?


No. It is highly recommended that you drain the system if you intend to move it. It is possible to move it without damaging the cooling system, however it isn't a good idea and I say don't do it. Every time you would have to drain it before moving it, then transport it, then refill/bleed it, then game, then drain it, then transport it, then refill/bleed it again. 8O

Quote:
And I like sticking my fingers in the pc alot.... I have lots of old equipment that I throw in every now and then, of course i wouldn't need to touch the cpu/nb, but the graphics card will be pulled out every now and then. Will it be much more of a hassle...can I even take the gfx card out?


Yes. You would just detach the cooler from the graphics card before you take it out. I don't know what you are doing that requires removing the graphics card, but yes it is possible. You will have to reseat the cooler every time, though.
March 29, 2007 12:39:53 PM

well i had to keep removing my last card (6800gt) cause it was over the motherboard jumper that resets the bios, so i had to take it out like once a day during the time my pc was doing random crap and not srating properly. And also cause the card was slowly dieing(dead now, viva la fx5500)....

probably wont need to move the 8800 once i get it. obviously wont be going for water then if i have to keep draining it. maybe when im rich enough for 2 pcs my home one will get watercooled.

thanks for the reply
March 29, 2007 12:57:59 PM

You're welcome.

The real risk is springing a leak during transport and then trying to start up and frying it, which is why you shouldn't transport it with water. You could check it before and after transport, but I just don't feel comfortable recommending that to

1) someone new to water cooling
2) who transports it that often.

Glad to help. :D 
March 29, 2007 1:41:08 PM

Excellent job Cleeve. Best beginner's level guide I have read to date. Very well done mate.
March 29, 2007 6:22:03 PM

hi i surfed on this site from anand after a member brought up this review. I also have a nobies guide to h2o cooling over at anandtech. So just wanted to help a fellow guide writter out at another reputable forum.

I like to say the organization and content was great. However the choice in products was very poor.

Koolance is concidered at best a TOY to most watercooling people. The tubes are highly restrictive at 1/4th ID. And aluminum parts without zinc in the loop with copper can lead to TONS of nightmare with corrosion.

Also someone recomended fluidXP. I cant warn you guys how badly you should stay away from this fluid. Its a joke.

1. IT WILL STAIN YOUR BLOCKS WITH WAX
2. IT WILL STAIN YOUR TUBES WITH WAX
3. IT WILL BE A PITA TO CLEAN ON FLUSHES.

Promochill is a better alternative.

And for those of you in the UK, there are stores that carry reputable parts for h2o cooling. The koolance block also isnt ment to suport a cpu running at higher voltage. The flow and distrubtion of heat to rad is absolutely horrible. Dual pass, copper radiators, made by thermochill, or swiftech radiators are far superior to koolance in cooling and capacity.

Last thing to show my experience:

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/aigomorla/IMG_04...
This is how a uber quiet setup should look like.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/aigomorla/IMG_03...
This is how performance setup looks like.

The two builds are completely different. One uses dual radiators, while the other uses single. A watersetup is not simple where 1 is universal. This is the first myth everyone needs to get over. Water can give you either quiet, or Super cooling. The majority of the people find a sweet spot in the middle. But the two builds are completely different!

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/aigomorla/MyOpty...
LAstly my load temps on performance for both GPU and CPU. There is absolutely NOWAY a koolance kit would come close to my setup

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/aigomorla/IMG_03...
Heres how they both look side by side.



Currently my setup has changed to a E6600. I am running 3.6ghz @ 1.45V. The idle and load temps are 28C idle on TAT and 36-41C Loaded. Water will reduce your LOAD deltas. My deltas as you can see is ~ 10-14C . This is a trait of a common h2o setup.


Also in comparision, a tuniq tower at my settings would idle ~ 44C and hit load at 65+C That is the power of water.

Ambients at around 62-64F. <-- forgot to list ambients :p 


I should also list my parts out incase anyone is currious:

On the Performance:
D-tek Fusion CPU block
EK Reservoir
2 x EK 7900GT @ 1.5V OC'd i pushed them as high as 700mhz on SLI
2 x DDC-2 w/ Petrastechshop tops, there the radical tops, but cheaper!
1 x 120.2 PA120 thermochil
1 x 120.1 BlackICE GTS
1 x MCW30 chipset

On the NAS:
120x3 blackice GTS <-- i should get a thermochill
Swiftech 655 aka Laing D5
DangerDen Maze4 GPU block
Swiftech ApogeeGT CPU block
Swiftech Micro Res.


Enjoy :D  and feel free to use any of my pictures if you want. If you also feel my post was a bit to excessive, please get a hold of though pms, and i'll delete this post. I dont have the intension of bad mouthing or bring down anyone's review. It is a well organized and greatly written reivew. I just felt the product should of been left out completely. In my Guide i carefully left out all mentions of products except in comparison with different style of blocks. Like the CPU has two forms, accelerator, and non accelerator, ie low restriction. These are big things ones needs to take into account when setting up a proper system.

Also, this was more of a review minus the first section then a guide. As i said, the choice in koolance is a very poor choice. Even when EVGA deicded to jump there new 680i on the xspc blocks, the whole water cooling comunity that are veterans went WHY?!?!?!!?!??!? xspc would be koolance's greatest competitor in the class of watercooling as a toy.



And to be actually honest, i dont think your system would do that much greater then a cheaper tuniq tower with a high powered fan. That is another thing you should care to mention.
March 29, 2007 9:03:44 PM

Quote:
Specific heat capacity is the other important physical property, which refers to the amount of energy it takes to heat a substance by one degree. The specific heat capacity of liquid water is about four times that of air, which means it takes four times the amount of energy to heat water than it does to heat air. Once again, water's ability to soak up much more heat energy without increasing its own temperature is a great advantage over air-cooling.


I didn't dig out a reference to check the specific heat values, but I think it should be pointed out that the vast majority of water's specific-heat advantage is due to it's density rather than it's specific (by mass) heat capacity. Even if water had half the specific heat capacity of air, it's density is, what, about 1000 times greater, so it would still more readily absorb the heat. The conclusion is the same, though I think the emphasis should be that the cooling contribution of the conductivity of water (25x air's) is paltry in comparison to heat capacity (and then forced convection by the pump). It would be more interesting to see a specific heating capacity with respect to volume at standard pressure. My guess is this would put water at 4000x the heat capacity of a given volume of air.

well you could always do the calculations yourself. anyway, another point to note is heat transfer is proportional to temperature difference, so if your water temp is too high, expect to see reduced cooling performance
March 30, 2007 12:59:32 AM

Writing a beginners guide is a very difficult task. You have to keep things at a very basic level. Parts selection is not relevant as the whole point of a beginners guide is to answer the basic questions and then get the reader to move on to do his own research with knowledge of the basics so he can ask pertinent questions like tube diameter and head pressure. If you get into to much detail you lose the primary audience ( which ain't you guys questioning corrosion potential and equipment selection) who is looking for the basics and probably way overloaded with info already from just reading the article.

It is a fine line and having written a couple of these types of guides I can tell you that Cleeve did a great job. He reached his target and provided just enough info that they can go out and ask the more in-depth questions.
March 30, 2007 4:12:45 AM

I didnt know tom was a kool lance sales man??
March 30, 2007 5:38:35 AM

I actually found this article helpful. I've been wanting to watercool for years, but I've always been afraid to, this made it look really easy.

Question though, the ambient temp where my PC is can reach 40C in the summer. I'm looking for a way to not only cool the PC, but stop the PC from heating the house as well. Does water cooling have cooler exhaust than air cooling? What about fanless design ones? Should I just hook a dryer vent up to my PC?
March 30, 2007 6:32:04 AM

Come on, this guide is a real letdown to those of us that know a thing or two about water cooling, you can do better than than and you are misinforming the younger group with these junky water cooling systems. It seems that these guides and threads keep getting worse and worse. Maybe if THG did some research to find out about actual decent custom water cooling systems then you might get somewhere, but with this integrated external crap you will get nowhere. Im disappointed in you THG :cry: 
March 30, 2007 12:35:17 PM

Great guide for a beginner to water cooling like me. Just remember to go back into this thread and tell us how high you were able to push that cpu overclock once you get the ram. Did you try to oc the GPU too?
March 30, 2007 1:01:43 PM

The total heat produced by your CPU is going to be the same, and since energy isn't destroyed by the water cooler, it's only transported, and the heat output to your room will be the same. If you take advantage of watercooling's ability to keep your CPU temps down to overclock, of course your heat output will even increase.

What you could do if you're up for a little work is to route the water lines so that the radiator is placed in an adjacent room. That would at least export the heat to a different place in the house. If you're up for building an exhaust vent, build it around a good radiator so that it fits to it and the fans on the radiator will drive the air to the outside.
March 30, 2007 1:13:23 PM

Oh its a good guide.
But I am here to give the readers more depth in the subject.
And hopefully get more performance for their money.

I wished you put in a section of custom built rigs perform much better at the cost of a little bit more complexity.
March 30, 2007 3:46:01 PM

Kurz, i dont agree really, for most people time is money the extra time to find what you need in your custom rig, the extra time to order all parts from different vendors and the extra time to assemble it would outweigh the benefits.
March 30, 2007 3:58:27 PM

I disagree with you here. I think enthusiasts do all of these things because they enjoy the tinkering. It's the time and effort that goes into the projects that makes it all fun. No effort projects mean that anyone can do it.
March 30, 2007 4:38:07 PM

Quote:
I disagree with you here. I think enthusiasts do all of these things because they enjoy the tinkering. It's the time and effort that goes into the projects that makes it all fun. No effort projects mean that anyone can do it.


Agreed, but this article wasn't for enthusiasts, it was for newbies and whose who may not know jack about water cooling (how to install, why, cost, etc). Yes you can get more for your money, but what would they know about deciding which block is better? Yes, they could ask in the forumz, but that is a different scenario from what was assumed in the article.
March 30, 2007 4:50:15 PM

Maybe the whole problem here is that water cooling is pretty much the exclusive territory of enthusiasts. Most of the people complaining abou the article know enough about water cooling that they shouldn't need to read a beginner's primer. Being a beginner's primer in the fist place makes arguments about the relative merits of picking and choosing components versus buying a ready-to-go kit kind of moot.

I'm of the opinion that people who don't want to spend the time and effort to pick out and install a good water cooling system probably shouldn't be recommended to use water cooling in the first place. If you're water cooling for silence, well, as I've said there are zero-noise solutions for air cooling a CPU too, which I've had a great experience with, even on an overclocked Pentium D. If you're water cooling for overclocking, then you're reading the wrong article.

I think the article, as it stands, is an adequate introduction to a larger field. I really think a more in-depth discussion of the topic would be worthwhile, and it would be great to see additions being made that delve into further detail for those who care to read it. How deep does the rabbit hole go?
March 30, 2007 4:59:08 PM

Your not uderstanding my concern.

In all guides, EVEN MY GUIDE, a CLEAR explaination of TUBE diameter is a MUST. A newbie reading this guide will think, OH it was done by a professional, hence Koolance is an awesome kit.

NO, KOOLANCE, THERMALCRAP, ZALMAN. These are ALL TOYS. I dont care how awesome your temps are, hands there THEIR TOYS. Nothing more to a watercooling hobbyist.

Now the problem with TOYS are, they can seriously damage your baby. ThermalCRAP for instance underwent 3 PUMP revisions last year. Did you guys know that?? 3!!! comon now, how bad is a pump on your system, that would require you to change your pump 3 times!?!??!!?

Zalman, dont get me started with the reserator. TONS of issues came up with these units. And now funny people will drop EK blocks on a reserator unit. BAM now thanks to the ALU, they got gavlanic corrosion starting.


BTW GALVANIC CORROSION IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT IN ANY NEWBIE GUIDE. THIS FAILED TO MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT MIXING ALU WITH COPPER. <-- I CANT STRESS HOW MUCH OF A NO NO THIS IS


Another thing i saved a few members on this fourm about fluid XP b4 they jumped to the product. Now so far i picked 4 NO NO's in less then 10 sec. Do you see how badly a newbie would fall in a hole if he followed this advice?


I am trying to save newbies from making hugh mistakes, and getting forever ban'd by water. I have helped TONS of newbies over at anandtech, and i have written my OWN guide which is a sticky over at case and cooling section. I am concidered a water expert at the forums, and i have ran into almost every nightmare situation you can think of when it comes with water.


From my firm and final believe, it is seriously much more deadly to give wrong advice in water then no advice at all. That is why i had to create a member account here, and try to fix some myths and rumors b4 they became a serious issue with the user later on.

Lastly, my favorate quote over at the forums:

Watercooling, if done right is like a black hole. Once u get inside, your stuck for life. :D  I think i fiddle with my loop at least 4 times per year, adding blocks and tweeking my systems.

I currently own: a

TDX <-- craptastic... but it was only 25 dollars new!
Apogee <--- great block!!
ApogeeGT <---- even better
D-tek <--- awesome
Storm Rev.2 <--- strong pump?? Hands down best block. However not a newbie block, due to issues of it getting clogged with poor maintence.

I currently bought a apogeeGTX to test it out and write a little review over at anandtech as well.


*please dont take me as a newbie. I have been watercooling longer then most people on this fourm. Going on to be my third year this november to be exact. So i know WAY more info then the average h2o cooling person. In fact i even jumped to tec's for a while, but had issues with electricity. ITS UBER EXPENSIVE RUNNING A 226W TEC 24/7* :X

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=37&t... <--- my link to my guide over at anandtech.

So YES a guide can be written correctly. And all guides should be written correctly. Also, im consistantly editing that guide for new info, or new faq's my fellow peers have.

So yes im a bit disapointed at the product, yet the guide was written very well. However, all serious issues should of been clearly expressed.
March 30, 2007 5:12:16 PM

Again, this just emphasizes the split between the phrases "water cooling" and "beginner". The bottom line is you need to do your research and know reasonably well what you're doing.

I've always turned down water cooling because I'm not an extreme overclocker, so good air cooling does very well, and I know of air coolers that are whisper-quiet that are more than adequate for silence.

However, if I had the budget to play around, I'd love to make a pure performance machine and pull out all the stops. That would be a fun hobby, but then, it's not for beginners or those who don't enjoy the time they put into these projects.

If/when I manage to start a project like this, I'll look up your guide. Would you consider adding some figures? Even sketches can help a lot when you're trying to describe something to the uninformed.
March 30, 2007 5:26:27 PM

<--- Been water cooling for 4 years :wink:
March 30, 2007 6:25:02 PM

Quote:
Again, this just emphasizes the split between the phrases "water cooling" and "beginner". The bottom line is you need to do your research and know reasonably well what you're doing.

I've always turned down water cooling because I'm not an extreme overclocker, so good air cooling does very well, and I know of air coolers that are whisper-quiet that are more than adequate for silence.

However, if I had the budget to play around, I'd love to make a pure performance machine and pull out all the stops. That would be a fun hobby, but then, it's not for beginners or those who don't enjoy the time they put into these projects.

If/when I manage to start a project like this, I'll look up your guide. Would you consider adding some figures? Even sketches can help a lot when you're trying to describe something to the uninformed.



If its relevant, and useful, im always up to amend, or remove stuff. I also give credit. :D  So yes, if you have something very useful to share, pass it my way. If its important and needs adressing, i will amend it, and give ya credit :D 

Im into more info for the general mass, then fame. To me, internet fame is very little, i prefer real life fame if any. :p 
March 30, 2007 6:26:43 PM

Quote:
I didnt know tom was a kool lance sales man??


As the writer, I guess you're of the opinion I'm a salesman of any model I chose to write a beginner's guide around.
If I had another brand to test with, that's who I'm pimping. Great logic.

What's the right way out? Custom build every piece? No wait... then I'm pimping the manufacturers of each individual component. Egads!

I guess I could have taken no pictures of anything, and kept the component information secret to make sure I wasn't giving the wrong impression to you.

Whatever. :roll:



Anyway, thanks for the vocal supporters, I sincerely hope the article has given some newbies enough of a basic framework to do more research.

To the dissatisfied hardcore: sorry I let you down. I do what I can, but I've never claimed to be perfect.

Some of you have good points, and I sincerely hope anybody who was interested in the article has a visit to this forum to get the extra info that some of the more constructive members have offered. :) 

Later gents!
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