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Closed Caption on HD

Last response: in Home Theatre
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October 11, 2004 3:49:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I subscribe to Dish HD. Watching TNT movie tonight, there was no closed
captioning on the Hd channel, but on the SD channel there was closed
captioning.

Dish tells me then TNT is not broadcasting the Closed Captioning on the HD.
I notice that I do receive CC on ESPN, but that is the only station.

Can someone verify that perhaps the stations do not include closed
captioning when they simulacast in HD??

Is this unique to Dish?

Thanks,

Jim

More about : closed caption

October 12, 2004 5:31:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

In article <STjad.1619$Bw1.161@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
jwhite18816NOSPAM@earthlink.net says...
> I subscribe to Dish HD. Watching TNT movie tonight, there was no closed
> captioning on the Hd channel, but on the SD channel there was closed
> captioning.
>
> Dish tells me then TNT is not broadcasting the Closed Captioning on the HD.
> I notice that I do receive CC on ESPN, but that is the only station.
>
> Can someone verify that perhaps the stations do not include closed
> captioning when they simulacast in HD??


The whole process of including CC in the HDTV stream is different than the
line 21/22 standard for regular TV.

I think I have this right: It is your TV that decodes standard def CC, not
the receiver (i.e. not Dish, or an STB). So the CC info must be in the
vertical blanking interval of the signal from your receiver to your TV.

In standard def mode the output of the Dish box is plain old 525 line NTSC,
with a line 21 and CC info in line 21.

In HDTV mode your Dish box spits signal out the Y, Pb, Pr lines in globs of
bits. Whole 'nuther ball game. No line 21. No captions.
October 12, 2004 5:44:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

OK, I'm trying to understand this. I have a Plasma monitor that is about as
dumb as they get. It needs the satellite box or another box to get a tv
signal. There is no closed caption capability on the monitor at all. You
are correct in that it gets the signal via Y, Pb, Pr (whatever that is).

Yet, on ESPNHD, I receive CC. On TNT HD there is no CC but on TNT SD there
is CC.

I'm very new to this HD stuff. I wonder if there is anyone out there that
receives any closed caption on TNTHD or HDNet?

Since you indicate that closed captioning is more convuluted on HD, perhaps
the stations are sending them buy DISH is not processing it correctly?

Thanks for helping,

Jim

"Mistress" <mistress@s&m.org> wrote in message
news:MPG.1bd4fe3b8a6f61069896c0@news.easynews.com...
> In article <STjad.1619$Bw1.161@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> jwhite18816NOSPAM@earthlink.net says...
>> I subscribe to Dish HD. Watching TNT movie tonight, there was no closed
>> captioning on the Hd channel, but on the SD channel there was closed
>> captioning.
>>
>> Dish tells me then TNT is not broadcasting the Closed Captioning on the
>> HD.
>> I notice that I do receive CC on ESPN, but that is the only station.
>>
>> Can someone verify that perhaps the stations do not include closed
>> captioning when they simulacast in HD??
>
>
> The whole process of including CC in the HDTV stream is different than the
> line 21/22 standard for regular TV.
>
> I think I have this right: It is your TV that decodes standard def CC,
> not
> the receiver (i.e. not Dish, or an STB). So the CC info must be in the
> vertical blanking interval of the signal from your receiver to your TV.
>
> In standard def mode the output of the Dish box is plain old 525 line
> NTSC,
> with a line 21 and CC info in line 21.
>
> In HDTV mode your Dish box spits signal out the Y, Pb, Pr lines in globs
> of
> bits. Whole 'nuther ball game. No line 21. No captions.
>
Related resources
Anonymous
October 12, 2004 3:22:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On 2004-10-11 18:44:28 -0700, "Jim" <jwhite18816NOSPAM@earthlink.net> said:

> OK, I'm trying to understand this. I have a Plasma monitor that is
> about as dumb as they get. It needs the satellite box or another box
> to get a tv signal. There is no closed caption capability on the
> monitor at all. You are correct in that it gets the signal via Y, Pb,
> Pr (whatever that is).
>
> Yet, on ESPNHD, I receive CC. On TNT HD there is no CC but on TNT SD
> there is CC.
>
> I'm very new to this HD stuff. I wonder if there is anyone out there
> that receives any closed caption on TNTHD or HDNet?
>
> Since you indicate that closed captioning is more convuluted on HD,
> perhaps the stations are sending them buy DISH is not processing it
> correctly?


I've been doing some reasearch on CC for HDTV in my area (OTA only,
though) and found that most stations are not doing CC on their digital
broadcasts. In my area, only CBS and FOX have digital CC; even then,
sometimes it doesn't work too well. I can't speak to any of the cable
channels since I don't have cable. Broadcast stations are required to
have CC capability for emergency messages, but I don't think the same
applies to cable stations, so it's possible there is no digital CC on
some HD cable channels.

Unfortunately I've been busy lately and haven't had time to put my
findings together on a website, but when I do, I'll let you know. My
first impression is that it feels like digital CC has been more of an
afterthought with getting the HD feed right.


--
There are no monkeys in my email.
October 12, 2004 11:32:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Thanks Seth. According to my research all broadcasters, OTA,
cable,satellite, are required to provide CC. There are exceptions and not
yet a requirement for 100 % CC. That will be in effect in Jan 2006.

I finally heard back from a couple of the HD places I queried. HD Net
offered: "HDNet does not yet offer closed captioning, however, we are
working on the technology and hope to offer it soon."

Discovery offered: "Discovery Networks is committed to meeting the Federal
Communications
Commission's closed captioning requirements and to making its programming
accessible to hearing-impaired viewers, those who use captioning as an aid
towards learning English and others who find captioning useful. " I checked
Discovery's HD Theatre and over two days time, there are no, none, nada, HD
programs with CC.

Still have not heard back from TNT. So seems like I will return my set and
wait for the broadcasters to catch up. Could fight them through the FCC but
right now I say P on em. Besides technology will be more advanced and
probably cheaper then.

Jim (Still - ESPN has captioning on their HD Channel).

"Seth Mattinen" <sethm@rollermonkeysnet.us> wrote in message
news:2004101211224816807%sethm@rollermonkeysnetus...
> On 2004-10-11 18:44:28 -0700, "Jim" <jwhite18816NOSPAM@earthlink.net>
> said:
>
>> OK, I'm trying to understand this. I have a Plasma monitor that is about
>> as dumb as they get. It needs the satellite box or another box to get a
>> tv signal. There is no closed caption capability on the monitor at all.
>> You are correct in that it gets the signal via Y, Pb, Pr (whatever that
>> is).
>>
>> Yet, on ESPNHD, I receive CC. On TNT HD there is no CC but on TNT SD
>> there is CC.
>>
>> I'm very new to this HD stuff. I wonder if there is anyone out there
>> that receives any closed caption on TNTHD or HDNet?
>>
>> Since you indicate that closed captioning is more convuluted on HD,
>> perhaps the stations are sending them buy DISH is not processing it
>> correctly?
>
>
> I've been doing some reasearch on CC for HDTV in my area (OTA only,
> though) and found that most stations are not doing CC on their digital
> broadcasts. In my area, only CBS and FOX have digital CC; even then,
> sometimes it doesn't work too well. I can't speak to any of the cable
> channels since I don't have cable. Broadcast stations are required to have
> CC capability for emergency messages, but I don't think the same applies
> to cable stations, so it's possible there is no digital CC on some HD
> cable channels.
>
> Unfortunately I've been busy lately and haven't had time to put my
> findings together on a website, but when I do, I'll let you know. My first
> impression is that it feels like digital CC has been more of an
> afterthought with getting the HD feed right.
>
>
> --
> There are no monkeys in my email.
>
!