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THG: Where the hell are you?

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March 29, 2007 12:37:27 AM

OK... when the rest of the computing world is reporting on Penryn and Nehalem (HardOCP, Anand, Arstech), I at least expect THG to do their own write up.

So where the hell is it? Were you not invited to Intel's little briefing? Now, even IF you guys do do a write up, no one's going to read it because everyone's already reported on it and given their own opinions. What could THG possibly add to the story now? Nothing. And if you weren't invited, I question the influence this site has (or lack thereof).

This is getting sad. The reviews are increasingly suckier and uninteresting. Most of the stuff posted is OP-Ed crap. Show me the hardware news and reviews damnit. This place's only saving grace is the Forums and TGDaily... TGDaily has shown major improvement, but the rest of the site is on a downward spiral. Get it together 'cause one of your oldest and most loyal fans is about to ditch this place. (Not that you'd care...)

[/done with my rant]

More about : thg hell

March 29, 2007 12:49:51 AM

I ~~think~~ THG maybe out of favor with Intel.

The price/performance charts (while conceptually interesting and inherently quite useful) for example, seem almost deliberately skewed to make AMD look better.

No data on an E6300 or E4300 "Because they haven't had a chance to test them yet"..? - is this even remotely, vaguely, plausably believeable? - um.. no.... - The fact that these two chips DESTOY THG's contention that in the lower midrange AMD is a good deal based upon their price/performance charts seems just a little too convenient, and more like an AMD payoff of some kind.

Even amid the netbust crap they always test the D940, 950, etc when the E935, E945 etc are exactly the same speed as the D940, D950 (just no virtualizatiion) and cost 20-30% less money. The lowest end D9x5 chips, which while crap, are similar speed wise to low end AMD stuff performance wise and can be had very cheap, Tom's charts should reflect this reality rather than selectively picking and choosing what to include.
March 29, 2007 12:55:11 AM

ANIMAL 8O .

you have a point.
maybe/it seems thg is getting more neewbified :?: :?
Related resources
March 29, 2007 12:57:14 AM

I know you should just leave and never come back.
March 29, 2007 1:04:21 AM

Quote:
neewbified


an example above me :p 
March 29, 2007 1:06:12 AM

Quote:

The price/performance charts, while conceptually interesting for example, seem almost deliberately skewed to make AMD look better.


SO you mean that X2 isn't faster than PD yet slower than Core 2? That's what the curve shows. AMD has done what they could to position price/perf better in this situation, but the total lack of parity between the Core 2 prices and PD prices AT LAUNCH makes it impossible to really differentiate price/perf between the two companies.
March 29, 2007 1:07:19 AM

I know you should just leave and never come back (and save us from all the BS you spew).
March 29, 2007 1:10:14 AM

Quote:
OK... when the rest of the computing world is reporting on Penryn and Nehalem (HardOCP, Anand, Arstech), I at least expect THG to do their own write up.

So where the hell is it? Were you not invited to Intel's little briefing? Now, even IF you guys do do a write up, no one's going to read it because everyone's already reported on it and given their own opinions. What could THG possibly add to the story now? Nothing. And if you weren't invited, I question the influence this site has (or lack thereof).

This is getting sad. The reviews are increasingly suckier and uninteresting. Most of the stuff posted is OP-Ed crap. Show me the hardware news and reviews damnit. This place's only saving grace is the Forums and TGDaily... TGDaily has shown major improvement, but the rest of the site is on a downward spiral. Get it together 'cause one of your oldest and most loyal fans is about to ditch this place. (Not that you'd care...)

[/done with my rant]


Of course they werent invited! Cmon Jesse, you were here 14 months ago when everyone knew this was a paid off AMD advertising site :wink:
March 29, 2007 1:12:10 AM

Quote:
Of course they werent invited! Cmon Jesse, you were here 14 months ago when everyone knew this was a paid off AMD advertising site


yeah but 3 years ago they were the opposite :lol: 
March 29, 2007 1:12:55 AM

I hardly ever visit the site, I have this forum bookmarked in my "computer" folder right next to Xtremesystems. The last THG article I read was that server thing from mid march.
March 29, 2007 1:21:41 AM

Quote:
I know you should just leave and never come back (and save us from all the BS you spew).


The AlphaMale is an interesting construct, almost ethereal.
March 29, 2007 1:24:02 AM

Ditto here. The headlines rarely change anymore. This has been my primary site for years now to get the scoop on the latest stuff. It has been a big yawner :o  for a while now.
March 29, 2007 1:35:01 AM

The only news I see is how the website changed.
March 29, 2007 1:52:04 AM

Ive only been a thg fan for about a year. First of all, the question of tech news or lack thereof seems appropriate, since me being not a veteran but more of a noobie, can selectively find good news, cutting edge announcements and then alert the fellow forum readers here. I realize that thg cant get the scoop on everything, but major announcements surely should be in the mix most times, which I like you find not to be. With this being said, I also want to say that reading the forums as well as an occasional storyt from thg has greatly increased my knowledge of hardware. For that I am thinkful. I hope that soon, with the coming changes from AMD/ATI Intel nVidia et al that thg is atop of information gathering and good interesting and informative articles to come.
March 29, 2007 2:08:25 AM

1) I agree with you.

2) Isn't it sad in the first place that the most interesting things to talk about in electronics is 6+ months away? I mean, some new stuff has happened this year in hardware, but it's nothing to get excited about. The AMD690 chipset is new, but that seemed to barly garner a sneeze out of enthusiasts (so maybe it's not an enthusiast board, but don't you people have HTPCs too?). It's like C2D was crack or something 9-12 months ago and since then nothing measures up.

Even if Barcelona comes out before Q4 and performs as well as it says it will, is that incredibly interesting? Sometimes I wonder if it's just that the last year or so has been a tremendous learning curve for me regarding hardware, and now I'm realising that if it does what you need, cool. Maybe I should move on and start learning more about advancements in software or something else. Speaking of which, whatever happened to Vista's voice recognition system? I haven't read anything about it since there was a security problem.

3) I find the Intel press release very cool. It seems to me that AMD and Intel are converging on similar designs, overall. The differences between the two will be in the details (and manufacturing tech). I'm impressed to read about the IPC improvements in Penryn. Frankly, though, I'd need someone like Jack to discuss what the release means other than exactly what it already says.
a b à CPUs
March 29, 2007 2:19:33 AM

Anandtech RUUULLLLZZZZ! THG SUXXX!!!!

lol

Anandtech forums SUXXXX!!
March 29, 2007 2:19:51 AM

Quote:
Ive only been a thg fan for about a year. First of all, the question of tech news or lack thereof seems appropriate, since me being not a veteran but more of a noobie, can selectively find good news, cutting edge announcements and then alert the fellow forum readers here. I realize that thg cant get the scoop on everything, but major announcements surely should be in the mix most times, which I like you find not to be. With this being said, I also want to say that reading the forums as well as an occasional storyt from thg has greatly increased my knowledge of hardware. For that I am thinkful. I hope that soon, with the coming changes from AMD/ATI Intel nVidia et al that thg is atop of information gathering and good interesting and informative articles to come.

You're looking at the bright side.
March 29, 2007 3:01:24 AM

Quote:

The price/performance charts, while conceptually interesting for example, seem almost deliberately skewed to make AMD look better.


SO you mean that X2 isn't faster than PD yet slower than Core 2? That's what the curve shows. AMD has done what they could to position price/perf better in this situation, but the total lack of parity between the Core 2 prices and PD prices AT LAUNCH makes it impossible to really differentiate price/perf between the two companies.

No, I am saying that you should include every single data point available.

Half of the truth is worse than a lie.
March 29, 2007 3:41:33 AM

Quote:
I ~~think~~ THG maybe out of favor with Intel.

The price/performance charts (while conceptually interesting and inherently quite useful) for example, seem almost deliberately skewed to make AMD look better.

No data on an E6300 or E4300 "Because they haven't had a chance to test them yet"..? - is this even remotely, vaguely, plausably believeable? - um.. no.... - The fact that these two chips DESTOY THG's contention that in the lower midrange AMD is a good deal based upon their price/performance charts seems just a little too convenient, and more like an AMD payoff of some kind.

Even amid the netbust crap they always test the D940, 950, etc when the E935, E945 etc are exactly the same speed as the D940, D950 (just no virtualizatiion) and cost 20-30% less money. The lowest end D9x5 chips, which while crap, are similar speed wise to low end AMD stuff performance wise and can be had very cheap, Tom's charts should reflect this reality rather than selectively picking and choosing what to include.

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 
What are you shooting up THG is owned lock stock and barrel by Intel
March 29, 2007 4:19:45 AM

I know, Im a damned optimist... but itll turn out good anywho ;) 
March 29, 2007 4:25:23 AM

Quote:
I know you should just leave and never come back.


That's a silly notion. :wink:
March 29, 2007 4:50:58 AM

I always came to this site first everyday for news. Then I would check Anandtech, but it was usually the same stuff. Eventually I stopped even looking at Anandtech, because I just assumed that it wouldn't have anything that thg doesn't. So then I hear there's more news about penryn on Anandtech from the forums here. So I check it out.

It does seem like THG is kind of slacking. The articles haven't been as interesting lately. Although I do think it is a great site. Maybe they've just been too busy with changing the site and now they'll get back to offering us interesting articles.
March 29, 2007 5:26:00 AM

Quote:
I know you should just leave and never come back.
So there's one less person to flame you? Dream on baron
March 29, 2007 5:28:07 AM

Maybe everyone should check more than one site for his news and reviews.I always stop by anand (because of dailytech most of the time) and then THG.They are a lot different in stuff they review and the way they review them so you cant just compare them directly.And if anyone thinks any of them loves INTEL or AMD or whatever else , i can tell you there are worse.Just check firingsquad for example. :wink:
March 29, 2007 5:32:56 AM

I fully agree jesse. THG sure has been been slacking lately. Perhaps when AMD gets some action going they will get excited again.
March 29, 2007 6:00:59 AM

So just what the heck is Thomas Pabst doing these days anyway? I take it he doesn't do articles anymore. I haven't seen anything from him in a very long time.
March 29, 2007 6:06:34 AM

Their articles have been on a sharp downhill slide recently. It used to be I could find something semi interesting daily or so. Lately, that is not the case, and the article that ARE interesting, are usually disappointing. If it wasn't for the forums and the community/knowledge shared here, I'd probably only check weekly or so.

THG even missed the XBox 360 Elite rumors by a couple weeks. That being said, while Anandtech has had more up to date news lately, their community kinda sucks compared to here.

I also find that their sister site or whatever it is, dailytech, presents news early, but its HORRIBLY skewed, often posts half the facts or press release in question, and the people that lurk there are pretty much fanboys or idiots. For examples, see the 20 million Vista sales article, or the the article where they "claim" the Sony exec called Americans cheap. It was oddly worded, but IF they had included the whole quote, you could see that he meant that America's cost of living is cheaper. Then again, the anti-Sony sentiment there is kinda sickening.
March 29, 2007 6:14:09 AM

Quote:
So just what the heck is Thomas Pabst doing these days anyway? I take it he doesn't do articles anymore. I haven't seen anything from him in a very long time.
Isn't he completely disassociated with THG now?
March 29, 2007 7:27:48 AM

Yeah i totaly agree with you guys i mean the last articles ware VERY VERY dissapointing take just the latest about the watercooling they test out the koolance exos-2 and they just overclock the e4300 to 2300?just what the heck is that everyone else overclocks theyr e4300 to 3ghz on stock coller and they with the exos just go for 2300 what is that some kind of bad joke,thats what any noob could do just by using the built in overclocking utilities drag a slider and presto 2.3ghz,i would NEVER bother to buy that rig if thats all it could do mind you i know that they could have easily gone past 3ghz with it its kind of the whole interesting articles are done by noobs,to be honest im preaty much a noob myself but then thats why i come here to learn more
March 29, 2007 8:02:51 AM

I think that one might time the decline of the thg website from the 'departure' of one Thomas Pabst...

Just my 2p.
March 29, 2007 10:42:47 AM

I just read the forums now to find out where the good reviews are.
Some of the reviews are okay. They often lack older data though. It's nice to see how hardware has changed over time, and what performance increases you are getting.

Quote:
I ~~think~~ THG maybe out of favor with Intel.


WTF????? Everyone know's Toms is Intel biased!!! :D 
Some guys signed up to the forums the other week and told me so.
March 29, 2007 11:52:51 AM

Quote:
I know you should just leave and never come back.


That's a silly notion. :wink:

:lol: 

Kind of like Smiggle. "Leave now and never come back!" "Leave now and never come back!".

:lol: 
March 29, 2007 11:53:41 AM

That's a good one. :lol: 
March 29, 2007 12:42:31 PM

Quote:
Yeah i totaly agree with you guys i mean the last articles ware VERY VERY dissapointing take just the latest about the watercooling they test out the koolance exos-2 and they just overclock the e4300 to 2300?just what the heck is that everyone else overclocks theyr e4300 to 3ghz on stock coller and they with the exos just go for 2300 what is that some kind of bad joke,thats what any noob could do just by using the built in overclocking utilities drag a slider and presto 2.3ghz,i would NEVER bother to buy that rig if thats all it could do mind you i know that they could have easily gone past 3ghz with it its kind of the whole interesting articles are done by noobs,to be honest im preaty much a noob myself but then thats why i come here to learn more


you totally missed the point of the article. Check out the discussion on the article before you spout crap like that.

That being said, I agree with mpjesse. This site got me hooked about ~3-4 years ago and then I started actively participating the forums about 12-18 months ago and that is what has kept me here. I learn more from the forumz than I do from THG, sad isn't it? The best example (for me lately) was the review of the RD600 that came about nearly a month and half after Anandtech and they crippled the board and had a slant away from it, ignoring some good features. It is this lack luster crap that depresses me.

I use THG for the fourmz, an interesting article per quarter (at best), daily tech and that is it. Whereas, 3 years ago, I could spend an entire day reading thorough articles and the related threads.

Are yall usisng interns for some of this stuff?
March 29, 2007 3:04:10 PM

Yeah, I'll 8th that (or whatever the agreement count is).

I bet it's some kind of cost cutting, and profit margin thing, where they hope a flashy look on the THG page will attract more ..... (actually I don't know what kind of folks that would attract! lol).

It was irritating enough already the new format, where it was often hard to find the price/performance articles, and I couldn't even find them quickly with a search! (and that's saying something)

Most damning though was only the poor conclusions drawn even in more interesting articles, like on the 8800GTX article about what cpu the 8800GTX needs! Very important topic~ Just read though the comments on that one to see the conclusions taken apart and destroyed.
March 29, 2007 4:06:59 PM

THG usually takes a few days to have the article ready and uploaded.
We must not forget that they have to write the articles in 2 languages and both articles have to be almost the same.
So Id say thats not the problem.

What Vorlon mentioned really IS true and its been like that for years now.
They did include OCed C2s but I think (havent done the math yet) that it actually manipulates the graph to show a weaker low-end for Intel.
Also, as already mentioned, they failed (on purpose) to include the lower end C2Ds and the "true" PD competitors; heck, noone is gonna buy a fully fledged 9x0 when the 9(x-1)5 perform the same for less money.
March 29, 2007 4:26:03 PM

Quote:
I know you should just leave and never come back.


That's a silly notion. :wink:


I was in a bad mood.
:oops: 
March 29, 2007 4:43:00 PM

Quote:
I know you should just leave and never come back.


That's a silly notion. :wink:


I was in a bad mood.
:oops: 

Well, let's see if this can get you into a better mood.

Here is my suggestion to the flowers that pee of THG.

Some of the articles in the past couple of months have been downright embarassing. So... Run a contest just like the one firingsquad.com just did. Get some of the forumers to write sample articles. Pick the best few writers and replace your current flock of sadsack amateur scribes. There are people hanging around here who have forgotten more about tech than most of your current writers will ever know!

The forums also seem to be emptying out. A lot of the old time household names in the Nerd Guru field are here only on rare occasion for a sporadic hit and run. With a handful of notable exceptions, they're generally being replaced by a gang of mostly illiterate 13 year olds with severe neuropsychiatric disorders. I don't know what to do to reverse that trend, however! :roll:
March 29, 2007 5:17:00 PM

I joined about a year ago. The site was fantastic. Over time, it has become less meaningful to my daily tech research. The content isnt great, the conclusions are on the fence, and the data to support their analysis doesnt do a 360.

I wonder who runs the site? Did they sell it out? Who owns the domain? It seems like the site has become a hobby site with inadequete funding, or a site that has changed management - ie. the new guys arent so tech crazy.

Either way, the Forumz rule. If Anandtech had to put up rolling forum subject topics on their homepage, that will be it for THG. This isnt a rant, just a request to go back to the basics, and do what you guys used to do best!
March 29, 2007 5:29:33 PM

Anyone that claims bias on either side probably hasn't looked at the history. That's all I'll say.
March 29, 2007 5:49:34 PM

Quote:


Some of the articles in the past couple of months have been downright embarassing. So... Run a contest just like the one firingsquad.com just did. Get some of the forumers to write sample articles. Pick the best few writers and replace your current flock of sadsack amateur scribes. There are people hanging around here who have forgotten more about tech than most of your current writers will ever know!

The forums also seem to be emptying out. A lot of the old time household names in the Nerd Guru field are here only on rare occasion for a sporadic hit and run. With a handful of notable exceptions, they're generally being replaced by a gang of mostly illiterate 13 year olds with severe neuropsychiatric disorders. I don't know what to do to reverse that trend, however! :roll:


Embarassing! You must be referring to the Feb 19'th $300 PC article where Intel topped AMD becuse they spent $30 more on Intel than AMD and couldn't use an Athlon chip because it would have added $10 to the AMD price which would then have been $20 less than the Intel and better performing.
March 29, 2007 5:54:47 PM

I've been coming to this site since early 1997 and back in those days every article was written by Tom himself (does he even work here anymore or as he gone back to medecine ???). I think he should consider doing articles again because yes the quality of reviews and such keeps degrading year after year ever since they opened labs 'round the world. This site used to be THE reference about anything computer related. Now it seems it is barely surviving with other sites (anand, firingsquad) putting reviews much sooner than THG. But I have to agree with poeple who say he forum is good and so is the news, I read stuff in tgdaily and 2,3 days later they have it on other sites so this is a positive point. But the reviews don't seem to be as thorough and complete as other hw sites.

As for the "THG is intel biased or not" well I always thought this site was one of the least biased towards any company and I hope it hasn't changed but nowadays the writers at THG seem more intersted in gadgets, cars and comic books than actual computer stuff.
March 29, 2007 6:14:38 PM

In my opinion THG is trying to widen its appeal and transform itself from a hardware enthusiast's review site to a more consumer-oriented, C|Net-like site. Look at the front page. CL65AMG? Solar-power DS Lite? Not that there's anything wrong with the direction they're taking, I just hope they don't eventually forget the enthusiasts who have always been THG's most loyal readers..
March 29, 2007 6:47:00 PM

Quote:
Anyone that claims bias on either side probably hasn't looked at the history. That's all I'll say.


I'd agree with that. And it isn't the usual forumz type ill-informed opinion, since I search for info to *disprove* what I think, not prove it. Just a higher standard of thought.

I looked for bias, and altogether I don't see bias.

Incompetence, sure....but THG has no monopoly on that of course. We'd all like it to return to former standards.
March 29, 2007 7:14:20 PM

Yeah, the $300 PC was a mess but there were others. As memory serves, there was an article a while back which teased you with an (approx.) $30 upgrade to get a huge speed boost and it turned out it was just an upgraded HSF and OC! That's barely over bait and switch. I can point to others, but I'm still shaking my head over the car (???) articles on the front page! Like there aren't several thousand other websites that deal with car news! :roll:

As for the bias to one or the other side of the duopoly, I can't say that is as significant as just plain bad writing and editing!
!