#1 problem with HDTV - no DVI/component-in PVR

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

My major frustration with HDTV is this: why hasnt anyone yet designed
an HDPVR
which simply accepts component and/or DVI input????

We've got OTA HD tuner card-based solutions, we've got DirecTivo HD
for satellite tuning, and the cable companies have started launching
their own mediocre cable-tuning HDTV PVRs...someone even has a QUAM
(sp?) card cable HDTV tuner. There are firewire solutions emerging,
but not every tuner has a firewire out...

But I dont understand why no one just simply has a DVI-in or
component-in card for PCs! This is exactly how TiVo took off - nearly
every video system has a composite out S-VIDEO, or can be fitted with
a converter for composite, so Tivo could be hooked up to anything.

Seemingly, no one wants to design the obvious solution - a
DVI/component-in PVR, with an IR blaster and composite/optical audio
in.

Anyone know *why*??
6 answers Last reply
More about problem hdtv component
  1. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    On 12 Oct 2004 11:59:21 -0700, in article
    <53e2ec95.0410121059.5704565c@posting.google.com>,
    brundlefly76@hotmail.com (Seth Brundle) wrote:

    >We've got OTA HD tuner card-based solutions, we've got DirecTivo HD
    >for satellite tuning, and the cable companies have started launching
    >their own mediocre cable-tuning HDTV PVRs...someone even has a QUAM
    >(sp?) card cable HDTV tuner. There are firewire solutions emerging,
    >but not every tuner has a firewire out...
    >
    >Seemingly, no one wants to design the obvious solution - a
    >DVI/component-in PVR, with an IR blaster and composite/optical audio
    >in.
    >
    >Anyone know *why*??

    They *are* designing the obvious solution. Your idea isn't it. It's
    much more straightforward, cheaper, and higher quality to just store the
    incoming already compressed bits from whatever source you are using,
    than to take uncompressed HD video & recompress it, which takes
    expensive HD MPEG encoding hardware and introduces another generation of
    encoding loss. DVI recording would also encounter encryption
    difficulties.
    --
    Stephen Tu
    stephtu@surfbest.net
  2. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    "Seth Brundle" <brundlefly76@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:53e2ec95.0410121059.5704565c@posting.google.com...
    > My major frustration with HDTV is this: why hasnt anyone yet designed
    > an HDPVR
    > which simply accepts component and/or DVI input????
    >
    > We've got OTA HD tuner card-based solutions, we've got DirecTivo HD
    > for satellite tuning, and the cable companies have started launching
    > their own mediocre cable-tuning HDTV PVRs...someone even has a QUAM
    > (sp?) card cable HDTV tuner. There are firewire solutions emerging,
    > but not every tuner has a firewire out...
    >
    > But I dont understand why no one just simply has a DVI-in or
    > component-in card for PCs! This is exactly how TiVo took off - nearly
    > every video system has a composite out S-VIDEO, or can be fitted with
    > a converter for composite, so Tivo could be hooked up to anything.
    >
    > Seemingly, no one wants to design the obvious solution - a
    > DVI/component-in PVR, with an IR blaster and composite/optical audio
    > in.
    >
    > Anyone know *why*??

    simple... the component or DVI monitor outs are raw uncompressed HD video
    1920x1080x3x30 Bytes per second... data that needs high quality
    compression - probably two pass, into MPEG2 or other suitable codec.

    and the computing horsepower required to re-compressed this incredibly high
    datarate stream is simply too expensive for home use

    this will not always be true... but we need a few more Moore's Law doublings
    to bring the task down to PC size.
  3. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    Well, uncompressed HDTV is 1.5Gbps. Mull that one over for a bit. Its not
    that nobody wants to design the obvious solution, its that nobody would buy
    it because it would cost so much money.

    Compressed HDTV as we know it is around 12-19mbps, a much more reasonable
    rate to capture and save for later. That's what the tuner cards and Tivo
    units do. They have to capture the transport stream prior to it being blown
    up to usable data. To compress 1.5Gbps to 19mbps on the fly, in real time,
    is not as simple as we might like to think. To store it uncompressed would
    require HUGE amounts of disk space.

    I have gone over this quite a bit, if you have any more questions just ask.

    --Dan

    "Seth Brundle" <brundlefly76@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:53e2ec95.0410121059.5704565c@posting.google.com...
    > My major frustration with HDTV is this: why hasnt anyone yet designed
    > an HDPVR
    > which simply accepts component and/or DVI input????
    >
    > We've got OTA HD tuner card-based solutions, we've got DirecTivo HD
    > for satellite tuning, and the cable companies have started launching
    > their own mediocre cable-tuning HDTV PVRs...someone even has a QUAM
    > (sp?) card cable HDTV tuner. There are firewire solutions emerging,
    > but not every tuner has a firewire out...
    >
    > But I dont understand why no one just simply has a DVI-in or
    > component-in card for PCs! This is exactly how TiVo took off - nearly
    > every video system has a composite out S-VIDEO, or can be fitted with
    > a converter for composite, so Tivo could be hooked up to anything.
    >
    > Seemingly, no one wants to design the obvious solution - a
    > DVI/component-in PVR, with an IR blaster and composite/optical audio
    > in.
    >
    > Anyone know *why*??
  4. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    I just checked a previous post. A 2 hour uncompressed HD movie would take
    up 1350 GB of space. Yes, 1.35 Terabytes. With current technology, the
    only reasonable solution is to capture the HD in its compressed state.

    --Dan

    "dg" <dan_gus@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:mEWad.29115$QJ3.5142@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    > Well, uncompressed HDTV is 1.5Gbps. Mull that one over for a bit. Its
    not
    > that nobody wants to design the obvious solution, its that nobody would
    buy
    > it because it would cost so much money.
    >
    > Compressed HDTV as we know it is around 12-19mbps, a much more reasonable
    > rate to capture and save for later. That's what the tuner cards and Tivo
    > units do. They have to capture the transport stream prior to it being
    blown
    > up to usable data. To compress 1.5Gbps to 19mbps on the fly, in real
    time,
    > is not as simple as we might like to think. To store it uncompressed
    would
    > require HUGE amounts of disk space.
    >
    > I have gone over this quite a bit, if you have any more questions just
    ask.
    >
    > --Dan
  5. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    Ah, I understand now - thanks!
    Too bad DVI spec didnt include a secondary pass-thru channel for the
    compressed data.


    brundlefly76@hotmail.com (Seth Brundle) wrote in message news:<53e2ec95.0410121059.5704565c@posting.google.com>...
    > My major frustration with HDTV is this: why hasnt anyone yet designed
    > an HDPVR
    > which simply accepts component and/or DVI input????
    >
    > We've got OTA HD tuner card-based solutions, we've got DirecTivo HD
    > for satellite tuning, and the cable companies have started launching
    > their own mediocre cable-tuning HDTV PVRs...someone even has a QUAM
    > (sp?) card cable HDTV tuner. There are firewire solutions emerging,
    > but not every tuner has a firewire out...
    >
    > But I dont understand why no one just simply has a DVI-in or
    > component-in card for PCs! This is exactly how TiVo took off - nearly
    > every video system has a composite out S-VIDEO, or can be fitted with
    > a converter for composite, so Tivo could be hooked up to anything.
    >
    > Seemingly, no one wants to design the obvious solution - a
    > DVI/component-in PVR, with an IR blaster and composite/optical audio
    > in.
    >
    > Anyone know *why*??
  6. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    "Seth Brundle" <brundlefly76@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:53e2ec95.0410121059.5704565c@posting.google.com...
    > My major frustration with HDTV is this: why hasnt anyone yet designed
    > an HDPVR
    > which simply accepts component and/or DVI input????
    >
    > We've got OTA HD tuner card-based solutions, we've got DirecTivo HD
    > for satellite tuning, and the cable companies have started launching
    > their own mediocre cable-tuning HDTV PVRs...someone even has a QUAM
    > (sp?) card cable HDTV tuner. There are firewire solutions emerging,
    > but not every tuner has a firewire out...
    >
    > But I dont understand why no one just simply has a DVI-in or
    > component-in card for PCs! This is exactly how TiVo took off - nearly
    > every video system has a composite out S-VIDEO, or can be fitted with
    > a converter for composite, so Tivo could be hooked up to anything.
    >
    > Seemingly, no one wants to design the obvious solution - a
    > DVI/component-in PVR, with an IR blaster and composite/optical audio
    > in.
    >
    > Anyone know *why*??

    This is exactly what 'content owners' don't want, and a major reason why DVI
    was invernted. In addition to the very high data rate mentioned by other
    posters, DVI from a HDTV tuner (from satellite, broadcast, cable, or DVD)
    may also be encrypted with HDCP.

    Component video is another matter. There are machines to record HD
    component video. They cost $5k and the tapes are prohibivetly expensive
    ($25-$50 I'm not sure). Also the analog HD component video signal can be
    digitally sampled and recorded. There is equipment to do this, but it is
    very expensive and not intended for consumer use. Using large scale
    integration LSI, and in a few years, it might be possible to do, this on a
    consumer level. This is why 'content owners' would like to eliminate the
    analog component outputs and just go with HDCP encrypted DVI.
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