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Do you like being a sidekick?

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Anonymous
February 16, 2005 11:16:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Hi

What's your opinion on being a sidekick? I was invited yesterday by
somebody for an in-door mission. He and his mates were like 5 levels
above me so he made me a sidekick. It was my first time as a sidekick.

I'm not sure if I like this. I got hit a couple of times by enemies on
my way to the mission. It was so bad that I almost had to visit the
hospital. And then in the mission I noticed that my character couldn't
aim anymore and did almost no damage to the enemies. I also got next to
nothing in terms of XP. Moreover, without the brilliant healer in the
group I would have been dead in a matter of minutes.

In retrospect I think this sidekick thing was a waste of time. I felt
like I couldn't contribute anything to the team's efforts. Why was the
sidekick thing invented and who can benefit from it?

~T.

More about : sidekick

Anonymous
February 16, 2005 11:16:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Thomas Adams <thomas.o.adams@gmail.com> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
say:

>Hi
>
>What's your opinion on being a sidekick? I was invited yesterday by
>somebody for an in-door mission. He and his mates were like 5 levels
>above me so he made me a sidekick. It was my first time as a sidekick.
>
>I'm not sure if I like this. I got hit a couple of times by enemies on
>my way to the mission. It was so bad that I almost had to visit the
>hospital. And then in the mission I noticed that my character couldn't
>aim anymore and did almost no damage to the enemies. I also got next to
>nothing in terms of XP. Moreover, without the brilliant healer in the
>group I would have been dead in a matter of minutes.
>
>In retrospect I think this sidekick thing was a waste of time. I felt
>like I couldn't contribute anything to the team's efforts. Why was the
>sidekick thing invented and who can benefit from it?

This sounds like you were either not sidekicked at all, or were out of
range of your mentor, so you dropped back to your normal level vs the
mobs.

IE he can sidekick you but if he's in the door mission already and you
aren't, you're NOT sidekicked until you get within something like 200
game feet of him.


Sidekicking raises you to 1 level below your mentor, so if he can hit
them you should be able to as well, AND do proper damage.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Anonymous
February 16, 2005 11:43:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Thomas Adams wrote:

> I'm not sure if I like this. I got hit a couple of times by enemies on
> my way to the mission. It was so bad that I almost had to visit the
> hospital. And then in the mission I noticed that my character couldn't
> aim anymore and did almost no damage to the enemies. I also got next to
> nothing in terms of XP. Moreover, without the brilliant healer in the
> group I would have been dead in a matter of minutes.
>
> In retrospect I think this sidekick thing was a waste of time. I felt
> like I couldn't contribute anything to the team's efforts. Why was the
> sidekick thing invented and who can benefit from it?

Um, that really sounds like you weren't sidekicked.

As a sk you fight as one level below your mentor, so eg - if they're
fighting Whites, you see Yellows.

What colour and level were the minions you were fighting and what level
were you and your mentor?

--
| Victory Server: |
| Bex - Level 34 Blaster (Assault Rifle/Devices) |
| Brother Grim - Level 28 Scrapper (Broadsword/Regeneration) |
| Amaryll - Level 19 Defender (Empathy/Radiation) |
| Gravometric - Level 18 Controller (Gravity/Radiation) |
Related resources
Anonymous
February 17, 2005 1:12:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

In article <Xns95FFD87F7BABthomasoadamsgmailcom@127.0.0.1>,
Thomas Adams <thomas.o.adams@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>In retrospect I think this sidekick thing was a waste of time. I felt
>like I couldn't contribute anything to the team's efforts. Why was the
>sidekick thing invented and who can benefit from it?

I believe it was invented so you could hang out with your friends who
levelled at a different rate than you, and so that you could finish a
mission or street sweep if you absolutely required a tanker/controller/etc
and there wasn't one of your level around.

In my limited experience, sidekicking works best in smaller groups composed
of {support chars} and {damage chars} and you are in one of those categories
and everyone else is in the other. Like being the defender for 2 scrappers.
Or being the tanker for 2 blasters. Clearly the 2 guys could do stuff on
their own, but they'll be *much* more effective with you around to provide
those critical bits of utility.

One (slight) advantage I've noticed is that the enhancement rewards that
your mentor recieves may be trash to him, but useful for you. If he's
already on DO's, the Training enhancements he recieves are just taking
up valuable inventory space, but are big bucks to you. Heck, you might
even be able to use them!


I had mixed success with sidekicking with my earth/kinetics controller.
Taking him to Bricktown at 14 with 2 scrappers for street fighting was not
real effective. I didn't have the right crowd control abilites to manage
agro in a way that my limited healing abilities could support. Taking him
to Talos Island at 18 with 2 blasters for a high 30's mission was much
more effective: I had more crowd control powers by then that made a real
difference keeping the other squishies alive. In both cases I made good
xp and cash -- well, ignoring the debt I got in the first case.


Since you didn't describe the details of the adventure (your levels, the
group's levels, ATs, mission, zone, etc), I can only speculate on why
your experience was so poor.

A worst-case scenario for sidekicking would seem to be something like this.
Seven L17 tankers/scrappers/blasters have picked you, a L11 controller to
help them with one of those "Defeat all Igneous" Hollows missions because
you're the only one online *right now* who has any relevant powers. The
mission site is in SE corner of the zone, no one has TP friend, and
everyone's waiting at mission door for you to show up. The run was dangerous
for them at L17, but it's horrific for you at L11 with no travel powers.
(You won't be effectively at L16 until you get within 200' of them.)
They're at L17, so they've got their main powers 5-slotted with DO 20's
(acting at ~190% efficiency); you're at L11 and have your powers 3-slotted
with Training 10's (acting at "only" ~121% efficiency). Because there's 8
in the group, you'll be fighting crowds of 10ish Igneous of roughly L20.
You, sidekicked to 16, will find most of them red or purple, and nearly
unable to affect them fast enough or well enough to do useful crowd control.
Your secondary abilities for healing will be stunningly ineffective against
the amount of damage they deal out, given how little crowd control you are
able to perform.

Alternatively, imagine the same scenario with you as the lone L11 tanker
for a group of L17 blasters and defenders. Your laughable offsensive powers
can't kill anything, your defenses are limited enough that the defenders can't
spam heals fast enough to keep you alive, and if you won't hold agro you're
just an xp sponge and dead weight.

A lot will depend on the group makeup, the levels, and missions. Swap out
a blaster for a controller in the first worst-case scenario above, and a
sidekicked bubble defender could easily spell the difference between success
and failure.

In the end, being sidekicked is neither necessary nor sufficient to being
totally useless to a group.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Bonzer | There's this guy. And he falls in a vat of
minotaur@hurloon.net | radioactive chemicals and instead of getting
| superpowers like you'd expect, he just dies.
| -- Ronnie, Zot #31
February 17, 2005 7:06:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

On the other hand if you are a 23 controller trying to clear out some 22
level missions and getting bored out of your mind at the snails pace,
then snagging some random 14 blaster/scrapper/defender and SKing them
works like a charm. The situation is under control, you just need some
good damage.

My take on it is that controllers, tankers, and most defenders* don't SK
into large groups well. Duo and trio can work, but not much over four
people. The supports simply won't have the powers, slots, and endurance
to keep up with the faster pace and wider variety of situations.
Scrappers and blasters tend to SK up better if you allow for the 25% or
30% effect loss at each SO/DO/TO break point.

Of course this is assuming a reasonably balanced team to cover the SK's
weak spots. As a rule of thumb you probably don't want to SK a level 10
scrapper to lead the charge for a group of six level 30 blasters.

*12+ FF and Empathy can sort of cut it as they depend less on affecting
enemies directly and more on helping allies.
--
The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign that the conspiracy is
working.
Anonymous
February 17, 2005 8:54:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

>On the other hand if you are a 23 controller trying to clear out some
22
>level missions and getting bored out of your mind at the snails pace,
>then snagging some random 14 blaster/scrapper/defender and SKing them
>works like a charm. The situation is under control, you just need some

>good damage.

>My take on it is that controllers, tankers, and most defenders* don't
SK
> into large groups well. Duo and trio can work, but not much over four

>people. The supports simply won't have the powers, slots, and
endurance
>to keep up with the faster pace and wider variety of situations.
>Scrappers and blasters tend to SK up better if you allow for the 25%
or
>30% effect loss at each SO/DO/TO break point.

>Of course this is assuming a reasonably balanced team to cover the
SK's
>weak spots. As a rule of thumb you probably don't want to SK a level
10
>scrapper to lead the charge for a group of six level 30 blasters.

>*12+ FF and Empathy can sort of cut it as they depend less on
affecting
>enemies directly and more on helping allies.

Last weekend I was the only healer in a team of 6 with one person being
sidekicked. You could guarantee if anyone needed healing it would be
the person being sidekick. Problem I saw was while they were fighting
at a higher lever their HP was still much longer then other peoples,
therefore damage taken was a greater percentage of their HP meaning
they need healing more often. Still, one person being sidekicked in the
team didn't present much trouble to me.

Problems arose when we completed the mission, people left, new people
joined and we ended up with 3 people being sidekicked. Trying to keep
them all alive and healed was a complete nightmare. Even though the
mobs were basically the same as before the mission was noticeably
harder with 3 people being sidekicked then with one.
Anonymous
February 17, 2005 4:51:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

In article <Xns95FFD87F7BABthomasoadamsgmailcom@127.0.0.1>,
Thomas Adams wrote:
> Hi
>
> What's your opinion on being a sidekick? I was invited
> yesterday by somebody for an in-door mission. He and his mates
> were like 5 levels above me so he made me a sidekick. It was my
> first time as a sidekick.
>
> I'm not sure if I like this. I got hit a couple of times by
> enemies on my way to the mission. It was so bad that I almost
> had to visit the hospital. And then in the mission I noticed
> that my character couldn't aim anymore and did almost no damage
> to the enemies. I also got next to nothing in terms of XP.
> Moreover, without the brilliant healer in the group I would
> have been dead in a matter of minutes.
>
> In retrospect I think this sidekick thing was a waste of time.
> I felt like I couldn't contribute anything to the team's
> efforts. Why was the sidekick thing invented and who can
> benefit from it?

It sounds like you got side-kicked to someone on the team that
was already low for the mission you were running. Since you end
up -1 level to your mentor, unless you get SKed to the level of
the mission it's basically not worth it unless you just want to
buff, debuff and heal, and even then your XP might be terrible.
Make sure your mentor is nice and high before accepting an SK.

In addition, if you get buffed up more than 10 levels or so, you
can end up out of your league by lacking too many important
powers.

Sidekicking is a convenience feature, and it works great for
that.

--
Neil Cerutti
After finding no qualified candidates for the position of
principal, the school board is pleased to announce the
appointment of David Steele to the post. --Philip Streifer
Anonymous
February 17, 2005 4:51:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

"Neil Cerutti" <neil.cerutti@tds.net> wrote in message
news:37jlraF5ftbj9U5@individual.net...
>
> In addition, if you get buffed up more than 10 levels or so, you
> can end up out of your league by lacking too many important
> powers.
>
> Sidekicking is a convenience feature, and it works great for
> that.

I can vouch for that.

My level 14 Defender got sidekicked to a couple of friends' Level 26's (a
scrapper and a defender) and buy did I feel it. Only died once though...


--
John Trauger,
Vorlonagent

"Methane martini.
Shaken, not stirred."

Vorlonagent (M), level 19 Blaster: Electric/Energy, Guardian
Steel Night (M), Level 16 Tanker, Invulnerable/Super-Strength, Virtue
MC-2 (F), Level 15 Blaster: Force/Fire, Protector
NightfalI (M), Level 16 Defender, Pinnacle
RolIing Thunder (F), Level 14 Defender, Infinity
Girl at the Bar (F), Level 8 Controller: Mind/Empathy, Liberty
Anonymous
February 17, 2005 5:08:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

buser@heck.huh wrote in news:1119554p4ruota4@corp.supernews.com:

> Scrappers and blasters tend to SK up better if you allow for the 25% or
> 30% effect loss at each SO/DO/TO break point.

Once when my baby katana scrapper was a lowly L5, she got sidekicked up to
level 20-something (freakshow mission) because the controller (had no pets)
just couldn't do enough damage and kept getting swamped. My 2 or 3 attacks,
while not great, were good enough to take a fair amount of the aggro off of
him. I also got about gifted about 4 or 5 DO enhancements that I sold and
made a pretty penny off of.

--
Marcel
Anonymous
February 17, 2005 11:15:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

buser@heck.huh wrote in news:1119554p4ruota4@corp.supernews.com:

> On the other hand if you are a 23 controller trying to clear out some
> 22 level missions and getting bored out of your mind at the snails
> pace, then snagging some random 14 blaster/scrapper/defender and SKing
> them works like a charm. The situation is under control, you just need
> some good damage.
>
> My take on it is that controllers, tankers, and most defenders* don't
> SK
> into large groups well. Duo and trio can work, but not much over
> four
> people. The supports simply won't have the powers, slots, and
> endurance to keep up with the faster pace and wider variety of
> situations. Scrappers and blasters tend to SK up better if you allow
> for the 25% or 30% effect loss at each SO/DO/TO break point.
>
> Of course this is assuming a reasonably balanced team to cover the
> SK's weak spots. As a rule of thumb you probably don't want to SK a
> level 10 scrapper to lead the charge for a group of six level 30
> blasters.
>
> *12+ FF and Empathy can sort of cut it as they depend less on
> affecting enemies directly and more on helping allies.

I was on the TV respec mission last night with a full complement of
eight heroes;

4 32's and a mix of 26 - 29's (I was a 29 Ice/Empathy controller).

The four lower levels' were all SK'ed to the four higher levels. I've
gotta say that the whole team performed *brilliantly*. Out of the three
other people who were SK'ed, there was only one scrapper than I had to
heal more often than the others, but even so, he held his own (though he
did die a couple of times, though not always by his own fault. {Note to
blasters in the TF respec: Do NOT shoot the door bombs with someone
standing *right* beside it})

Fortunately for me, my only 'offensive' powers are Ice Slick, Block of
Ice and Glacier - everything else is healing and buffing, so I actually
had a fun time, being able to concentrate mostly on being a support
unit.

This team was so well co-ordinated that *all* the waves at the reactor
were positively *owned* :) 

--
Marc Bissonnette
CGI / Database / Web Management Tools: http://www.internalysis.com
Looking for a new ISP? http://www.canadianisp.com
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 12:43:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

John Parkinson <jp--usenet--spam--trap@destiny.org.uk> wrote:

>> In retrospect I think this sidekick thing was a waste of time. I felt
>> like I couldn't contribute anything to the team's efforts. Why was the
>> sidekick thing invented and who can benefit from it?
>
> Um, that really sounds like you weren't sidekicked.

Oh yes, I was. There was a requester visible asking me if I wanted to
be sidekicked and I accepted. Also in the Team list my character's name
was not left aligned with the other names in the team.

> As a sk you fight as one level below your mentor, so eg - if they're
> fighting Whites, you see Yellows.
>
> What colour and level were the minions you were fighting and what level
> were you and your mentor?

I was 8, my mentor 13. The minions were in this level range, too.

~T.
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 12:50:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> wrote:

>>In retrospect I think this sidekick thing was a waste of time. I felt
>>like I couldn't contribute anything to the team's efforts. Why was the
>>sidekick thing invented and who can benefit from it?
>
> This sounds like you were either not sidekicked at all

I was, I'm sure of that.

> range of your mentor, so you dropped back to your normal level vs the
> mobs.

No, I made sure I always stayed near my mentor.

> Sidekicking raises you to 1 level below your mentor, so if he can hit
> them you should be able to as well, AND do proper damage.

He was on par with the minions level-wise. But I did only do 1 or 2
damage points per hit. (It was the Troll cave mission in Hollows)

~T.
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 12:58:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Thomas Adams wrote:
> John Parkinson <jp--usenet--spam--trap@destiny.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>> In retrospect I think this sidekick thing was a waste of time. I felt
>>> like I couldn't contribute anything to the team's efforts. Why was the
>>> sidekick thing invented and who can benefit from it?
>>
>> Um, that really sounds like you weren't sidekicked.
>
> Oh yes, I was. There was a requester visible asking me if I wanted to
> be sidekicked and I accepted. Also in the Team list my character's name
> was not left aligned with the other names in the team.

OK, certain sounds like you were sidekicked.

>> As a sk you fight as one level below your mentor, so eg - if they're
>> fighting Whites, you see Yellows.
>>
>> What colour and level were the minions you were fighting and what level
>> were you and your mentor?
>
> I was 8, my mentor 13. The minions were in this level range, too.

If you were genuinely sikdekicked and in range and fighting, eg a lvl 13
mob. You should see a lvl 13 minion as yellow. If unsidekicked a lvl 13
minion would have been +5 to you and purple.

The colour should be the clue here as to if sidekicking was working or
not.

--
| Victory Server: |
| Bex - Level 34 Blaster (Assault Rifle/Devices) |
| Brother Grim - Level 28 Scrapper (Broadsword/Regeneration) |
| Amaryll - Level 19 Defender (Empathy/Radiation) |
| Gravometric - Level 18 Controller (Gravity/Radiation) |
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 1:33:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

John Parkinson <jp--usenet--spam--trap@destiny.org.uk> wrote:
>> I was 8, my mentor 13. The minions were in this level range, too.

> If you were genuinely sikdekicked and in range and fighting, eg a lvl
> 13 mob. You should see a lvl 13 minion as yellow. If unsidekicked a
> lvl 13 minion would have been +5 to you and purple.
>
> The colour should be the clue here as to if sidekicking was working or
> not.

You should also see a clear indication in the team-list window - your name
bubble should be under your mentors, and indented a bit. If it's not,
you're not sidekicked.

--
-= Victory Server =-
-= Shenanigunner: Level 37 Natural Tanker, Fire/SS, M =-
-= Sgt Glory B: Level 16 Tech Blaster, Electric/Energy, F =-
-= Mean Mr Mustard: Level 8 Science Scrapper, Dark/Regen, M =-
-= See you on HEROICA! - http://www.dgath.com/coh/ =-
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 11:51:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Thomas Adams <thomas.o.adams@gmail.com> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
say:

>Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> wrote:
>
>>>In retrospect I think this sidekick thing was a waste of time. I felt
>>>like I couldn't contribute anything to the team's efforts. Why was the
>>>sidekick thing invented and who can benefit from it?
>>
>> This sounds like you were either not sidekicked at all
>
>I was, I'm sure of that.
>
>> range of your mentor, so you dropped back to your normal level vs the
>> mobs.
>
>No, I made sure I always stayed near my mentor.
>
>> Sidekicking raises you to 1 level below your mentor, so if he can hit
>> them you should be able to as well, AND do proper damage.
>
>He was on par with the minions level-wise. But I did only do 1 or 2
>damage points per hit. (It was the Troll cave mission in Hollows)

Then the question we should be asking is:
What are you - what AT/build?
What attack(s) were you using?

If you only had the first, weakest attack of a low damage class than you
should expect to do low damage.

The other possibility is that the mobs are resistant to the type of
damage you do.

Trolls are resistant to smashing damage, and the boss types resist even
more.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 5:30:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

On 16 Feb 2005 20:16:56 GMT, Thomas Adams <thomas.o.adams@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Hi
>
>What's your opinion on being a sidekick? I was invited yesterday by
>somebody for an in-door mission. He and his mates were like 5 levels
>above me so he made me a sidekick. It was my first time as a sidekick.

Even though you are sidekicked to be one level below that person's
level, there may be an even more significant difference between your
abilities to hit those mobs, and your mentor's ability, simply because
he may be using Accuracy DOs, while you are not. (12 is when you can
first start using them).

While you are still stuck with training enhancements, you'll find that
you will miss an inordinate amount, unless you have slotted 2 or 3
training accuracy enhancments in your attacks..

In any case, my experiences with being sidekicked have varied. I've
had some decent experiences and some not so good ones. Except for
very rare circumstances, I will only allow my characters to be
sidekicked if I know the people I'm grouping with (In other words, if
my purpose in doing it is to be able to group with friends).

There are exceptions -- I've done Task Forces while sidekicked, and
have had reasonably good experiences doing that. But, as a general
guideline, you are taking big chances if you dont' know the peple you
are with. Remember that if you are with a higher group who takes you
into a really tough zone, you may have to find yoiur way out all on
your own, and that could get nasty at low levels. It's happened to me
more than once, so just be aware.
-Haldur
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