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1080i vs.720p

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Anonymous
October 21, 2004 9:35:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Anyone who has experience with progressive scan DVD know that it makes
the picture looking real nice when 480i is turned into 480p.


Some people argue that 720p is better than 1080i. Since 1080p takes
too much bandwidth for boardcasting, 1080i is likely to stick around
for many more years to come. 1080i means each pass only have 540
lines which is less than 720, hence some argue 720p is better.

Assuming we are stuck with 1080i over the air, what if the TV has the
line doubling circuit to turn the 1080i into 1080p? Other than some
line doubling artifacts, a doubled 1080i should look better than 720p.
Right?

More about : 1080i 720p

Anonymous
October 22, 2004 4:54:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:35:59 -0700, Caloonese wrote:

> Anyone who has experience with progressive scan DVD know that it makes the
> picture looking real nice when 480i is turned into 480p.
>
>
> Some people argue that 720p is better than 1080i. Since 1080p takes too
> much bandwidth for boardcasting, 1080i is likely to stick around for many
> more years to come. 1080i means each pass only have 540 lines which is
> less than 720, hence some argue 720p is better.
>

If you place the same time restrictions on 720P, (1/60th of a second per
field of 1080i) you only get the top half of the picture on 720P.

Don't listen to the sock puppet shows, sales people or biased engineers.
Look at the picture yourself and draw your own conclusion on what looks
better.
Anonymous
October 22, 2004 4:54:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"yea right" <spam@spam.spam> wrote in message
news:p an.2004.10.22.00.54.36.734162@spam.spam...
> On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:35:59 -0700, Caloonese wrote:
>
>> Anyone who has experience with progressive scan DVD know that it makes
>> the
>> picture looking real nice when 480i is turned into 480p.
>>
>>
>> Some people argue that 720p is better than 1080i. Since 1080p takes too
>> much bandwidth for boardcasting, 1080i is likely to stick around for many
>> more years to come. 1080i means each pass only have 540 lines which is
>> less than 720, hence some argue 720p is better.
>>
>
> If you place the same time restrictions on 720P, (1/60th of a second per
> field of 1080i) you only get the top half of the picture on 720P.
>
> Don't listen to the sock puppet shows, sales people or biased engineers.
> Look at the picture yourself and draw your own conclusion on what looks
> better.

Both look very good. I can't see the difference and I would think most could
not.
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Can't find your answer ? Ask !
October 22, 2004 9:35:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

In article <pan.2004.10.22.00.54.36.734162@spam.spam> yea right <spam@spam.spam> writes:

>If you place the same time restrictions on 720P, (1/60th of a second per
>field of 1080i) you only get the top half of the picture on 720P.

Only if you are referring to 720p30. 720p60 is reportedly the popular form.

>Don't listen to the sock puppet shows, sales people or biased engineers.
>Look at the picture yourself and draw your own conclusion on what looks
>better.

And look with all sorts of inputs. Conversion from non-native forms is often
quite bad.

Alan
Anonymous
October 22, 2004 9:44:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

> > If you place the same time restrictions on 720P, (1/60th of a second per
> > field of 1080i) you only get the top half of the picture on 720P.
> >
> > Don't listen to the sock puppet shows, sales people or biased engineers.
> > Look at the picture yourself and draw your own conclusion on what looks
> > better.
>
> Both look very good. I can't see the difference and I would think most could
> not.

If you ever setup a htpc, you will want the 720p option.

Eric
October 22, 2004 2:40:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

It is all in the implementation. Start with a program produced in 1080p60
and broadcast as 1080i60. Then display it on a fixed pixel 1080p60 display
with a perfect conversion circuit and then look at the same 1080p60 program
broadcast at 720p60 on a proper 720p60 fixed pixel display and tell me which
looks better on static material and fast motion material. My guess would be
that when we get to truly hugh displays for the home, over 100 inches, the
converted 1080p60 "might" look better than the converted 720p, but in
today's typical 40 to 60 inch display I doubt the difference is attributible
to the display format, per se. Why don't you ask a simple question?

Richard.
Anonymous
October 25, 2004 7:27:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Mudd Bug" wrote:
> Both look very good. I can't see the difference and I would think most
> could not.

That depends on the size of your image. I have a 100" image via a front LCD
projector and with 1080i you get fast-motion artifacts when you're watching
live sports or movie action scenes. The fast-moving images work better with
720p since the image is progressive. However, when watching movies that
aren't action oriented, the 1080i is stunning simply because of the higher
resolution.

borromini
Anonymous
October 25, 2004 10:49:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"borromini" <asdf@asdf.com> wrote in message
news:Yo_ed.34349$QJ3.21291@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> "Mudd Bug" wrote:
>> Both look very good. I can't see the difference and I would think most
>> could not.
>
> That depends on the size of your image. I have a 100" image via a front
> LCD projector and with 1080i you get fast-motion artifacts when you're
> watching live sports or movie action scenes. The fast-moving images work
> better with 720p since the image is progressive. However, when watching
> movies that aren't action oriented, the 1080i is stunning simply because
> of the higher resolution.
>
My wife just agreed to a front projector and I am just starting to research.

Which one do you have and do you have any suggestions or comments for
someone like me who is just starting to research?

Thanks!

> borromini
>
Anonymous
October 26, 2004 5:40:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"yea right" <spam@spam.spam> wrote in message
news:p an.2004.10.22.00.54.36.734162@spam.spam...
>
> If you place the same time restrictions on 720P, (1/60th of a second per
> field of 1080i) you only get the top half of the picture on 720P.

??

In 1/60th of a second, 720p draws the entire 720 lines of the full screen.
Anonymous
October 26, 2004 9:28:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Matthew Vaughan" <matt-no-spam-109@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:UVhfd.1080$_3.18344@typhoon.sonic.net...
> "yea right" <spam@spam.spam> wrote in message
> news:p an.2004.10.22.00.54.36.734162@spam.spam...
> >
> > If you place the same time restrictions on 720P, (1/60th of a second per
> > field of 1080i) you only get the top half of the picture on 720P.
>
> ??
>
> In 1/60th of a second, 720p draws the entire 720 lines of the full screen.
>
>

Not always true, according to the ATSC standard 18 formats:
http://support.gateway.com/s/CsmrEltrncs/DigitalTV/Shar...

There is 720p at 24fps, 30fps, and 60fps.

Brad
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 6:28:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Brad Houser" <bradDOThouser@intel.com> wrote in message
news:clmq40$vcn$1@news01.intel.com...
>
> "Matthew Vaughan" <matt-no-spam-109@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:UVhfd.1080$_3.18344@typhoon.sonic.net...
>> "yea right" <spam@spam.spam> wrote in message
>> news:p an.2004.10.22.00.54.36.734162@spam.spam...
>> >
>> > If you place the same time restrictions on 720P, (1/60th of a second
>> > per
>> > field of 1080i) you only get the top half of the picture on 720P.
>>
>> ??
>>
>> In 1/60th of a second, 720p draws the entire 720 lines of the full
>> screen.
>
> Not always true, according to the ATSC standard 18 formats:
> http://support.gateway.com/s/CsmrEltrncs/DigitalTV/Shar...
>
> There is 720p at 24fps, 30fps, and 60fps.

True, but the only one in common use is 720p60, just as 1080i60 is the only
1080-line format in common use.
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 6:28:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Matthew Vaughan" <matt-no-spam-109@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:xssgd.2054$_3.27017@typhoon.sonic.net...
>
> "Brad Houser" <bradDOThouser@intel.com> wrote in message
> news:clmq40$vcn$1@news01.intel.com...
> >
> > "Matthew Vaughan" <matt-no-spam-109@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:UVhfd.1080$_3.18344@typhoon.sonic.net...
> >> "yea right" <spam@spam.spam> wrote in message
> >> news:p an.2004.10.22.00.54.36.734162@spam.spam...
> >> >
> >> > If you place the same time restrictions on 720P, (1/60th of a second
> >> > per
> >> > field of 1080i) you only get the top half of the picture on 720P.
> >>
> >> ??
> >>
> >> In 1/60th of a second, 720p draws the entire 720 lines of the full
> >> screen.
> >
> > Not always true, according to the ATSC standard 18 formats:
> >
http://support.gateway.com/s/CsmrEltrncs/DigitalTV/Shar...
> >
> > There is 720p at 24fps, 30fps, and 60fps.
>
> True, but the only one in common use is 720p60, just as 1080i60 is the
only
> 1080-line format in common use.
>
>

I am not so sure about your last statement. There is no 1080i60 on the list.
Don't you mean 1080i30?

Brad Houser
!