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Question about Overclocking.

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April 4, 2007 3:39:04 PM

Hey again guys,

I realize this is probably the wrong forum for questions on ocing a cpu, but I posted my first build specs in here and had so much help on them that I just needed to ask another question in here.


My first post was looking at building a system in the £750 - £800 range I had loads of help and advice and decided to change my plan completley, Im going now for the Asus P5N-E SLI 650i Socket 775 as opposed to the STRIKER EXTREME, and a C2D E6600 instead of a E6700.

Downgrading my choices however, was on the basis that, on air with stock coolers I could Overclock my c2d e6600 to speeds that rival, if not better the e6700.

The only problem is, I have never overclocked before. :roll:

I have tried my best to find guides that go over, ocing core 2 duos, specifically a guide that talks about the E6600, but all the ones I have found talk about using motherboards from gigabite or other brands and dont mention my choice.

Im assuming that its very general to a point but for components in excess of £200 in total I want to be absolutley sure.

I have read these guides from page to page and they talk about alot of things that in all honesty, are putting me off ocing this system when I buy it.

Stuff like changing voltages, frontsidebus to ram ratios ect.

I was under the impression that you change the Frontsidebus to a higher number and then the multiplier ( which you can't change? ) speeds up your cpu

but when you do that you have to take into account that the fsb to ram ratio makes your ram operate at speeds that are too fast?

And so you have to change the ratio of fsb : ram

And THEN - you have to change voltages to accommadate the increased power needs from your oced components?

Now im sorry if I am overreacting but that scares me ^^ :oops: 

Im very nervous about messing about with computers when it goes past the installing and physical part.

I also have to be very sure that im dead accurate when Im doing somthing, and to be honest, I wouldnt have a clue as to how much I would need to reduce that Ram : fsb ratio,

Or how much more voltage I would need to give the cpu, doing things like increasing the voltage could fry your components I take it?

I know its a long shot, but im wondering if anyone has experience of overclocking a core2duo processser on the ASUS P5N - E SLI motherboard and could point me in the right direction

And of course, anyone who would be so kind as to write me a description of overclocking and how it works, and how to do it 8O

Would be my savior, cause im pretty annoyed atm, my masterplan for saving money and building a pretty damn good computer at the same time kinda relied on ocing things, but I never thought It would be complicated, which is a mistake I wont make again ^^

Thanks a lot for anyone who takes the time to read this and possibly replies - Thanks =)

-Liam

More about : question overclocking

April 4, 2007 4:02:29 PM

Moderate OverClocking is quite easy and you don't need to worry about voltages for anything if you so choose. These are only a concern as you go for a high OC. From what I hear, a mild OC would work just well for you.

Buy your E6600 (Wait Till April 22nd for a major price drop) and drop it in your Mobo and in the Bios set the RAM timings to 1:1.

This will leave your CPU at 2.4Ghz and RAM running at 533Mhz and an FSB of 266.

Just start slowly increasing your FSB in step until you reach an FSB of 333 which will leave ram @667. This will result in a CPU running @ 3.0Ghz.

At these Speeds your will likely not need any voltage changes whatsoever.

You will find this so easy, however, that you may want to move well beyond 3.0Ghz and at a result buyng DDR2800 may be worth while to get higher clocks. You could also play with other memory Timings such as 5:4 which would let you increase your RAM at a faster rate than the FSB so it could run at speeds of just over 800 when your CPU was still only at 3.0Ghz.

There is no reason to fear or avoid the simple OverClocks.

Though many folks here try to push their systems to the limit with 3.6Ghz and higher with more extreme OCs, there are just as many including myself who find moderate OC's of lower-end C2Ds to the 2.8-3.2Ghz range more than acceptable w/o the concerns of the hard-core OC'ers.
April 4, 2007 4:11:18 PM

'Tis normal to be frightened when facing a challenge the likes of which you have never faced before. But fear not, for Conroe is but as simple and overclock as there ever was. And as to your inquirery pertaining to a frequency obtainable with which to rival the E6700, you may rejoice for that is common among enthusiasts such as myself and a mojority of the populous here.
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April 4, 2007 5:27:08 PM

Ahh well thanks alot for the guide zenmaster! that was really helpful, though, just to point out the ram I am getting is DDR2 PC6400 - 800Mhz so wouldnt having it run at 533 mhz be pretty low? Just wondering?

And im glad to hear its an easy job Proof :D  and thanks for the reassurance ^^

one other question about your post zenmaster, you say a ram : fsb ratio of 1:1 will have the ram running at 533mhz when the fsb is at 266mhz .. is it just me or is that not 1:1 :S

Thanks in advance - Liam :) 
April 4, 2007 5:36:18 PM

Also, I just noticed in another post on this forum, that someone said that 650i mobos like the one im getting, overclock the cpu and ram seperatley without the need for ratios? is that true? :o 
April 4, 2007 5:42:40 PM

CPU Frequency:
FSB*Multiplier

BUS Speed:
Most new motherboards and processors are "quad pumped". This means that the when you set your BUS speed, that number will be multiplied by four and that final number is your FSB.

FSB:
BUS*Multiplier

RAM Frequency:
MUCH Harder to explain.

FSB:RAM Ratio
The RAM frequency to FSB frequency ratio is just that. If you have a 1000MHz FSB (100*10) and your RAM is running at 500MHz you have a 2:1 Ratio.

At least I am pretty sure I am right. I get confused when I am not actually doing it. :oops: 
April 4, 2007 7:59:19 PM

Ahh, I see, well I get that 1000mhz fsb to 500mhz ram is 1 : 2

But what I was getting at was how 266 fsb and 533 mhz ram was 1 : 1 as zenmaster's post said, sorry If I am missing somthing obvious but isnt that
a ratio of 2 : 1 that is off by 1mhz

266 * 2 = 532

So there is two fsb to the ram timing which is 533

which would make 266 fsb and 533 mhz ram a ratio of 2 : 1


Im probably missing somthing, but say if I set the ram to fsb ratio to 1 : 1 and increased my fsb to 333, it would leave the ram running at 333 mhz too?
April 4, 2007 8:08:59 PM

He was right. The 1:1 ratio is close enough. It is not exact but close enough. And he just mentioned that because your RAM may be multiplied by 2.
April 4, 2007 8:27:36 PM

Quote:
...
BUS Speed:
Most new motherboards and processors are "quad pumped". This means that the when you set your BUS speed, that number will be multiplied by four and that final number is your FSB.

To clarify, current Intel CPUs have a FSB (AMD CPUs do not), which transfers data between the CPU and memory/disks/etc. The *clock rate* of the FSB and the *effective data transfer rate* of the FSB are both often called "the FSB", but it's important to keep them straight.
C2Ds like the e6600 have an FSB clock rate of 267MHz. Since Intel CPUs are quad-pumped, they transfer 4 "chunks" of data per clock tick, so the effective data transfer rate of the FSB is 4x 267MHz = 1066MHz.

Since all data to/from the memory has to go through the FSB, once your memory can "feed" the FSB at its maximum data rate, you get diminishing performance returns by speeding up the memory bus faster than that.
So, how fast does the memory bus have to run to fully saturate the throughput of the FSB?

First, we assume you are running in "dual channel" mode, which increases the memory throughput by 2x (essentially by doubling the number of data "lanes" in the memory bus).
Second, DDR2 (like DDR) transfers 2 chunks of data per memory bus clock tick.
Thus, to match a 1066MHz FSB data rate (267MHz FSB clock), the memory bus needs to run at 1066MHz FSB data rate / (2x2 (for dual channel mode and DDR2)) = 267MHz memory clock. Note that this turns out to be the same clock rate as the FSB -- that's what a "1:1" FSB:RAM ratio refers to.
A 267MHz memory clock is DDR2-533. That's why people recommend running memory at DDR2-533 for most non-OC'd C2D systems.
Intel has recently introduced a slower stock FSB e4300 (800MHz FSB data rate), and will be introducing faster ones soon (1333MHz FSB data rate), so you need to evaluate things based on your specific components and what you might upgrade to in the future.
April 4, 2007 8:29:58 PM

Quote:
Also, I just noticed in another post on this forum, that someone said that 650i mobos like the one im getting, overclock the cpu and ram seperatley without the need for ratios? is that true? :o 

Although there are always ratios underlying it all, some MBs?BIOSes are designed to allow you to specify the FSB and RAM speeds separately, while others just allow you to set one speed and then the ratio for the other.
April 4, 2007 8:52:19 PM

Wow, after a lot of frustration I have finally got that! I was under the impression that the ratio was talking about the ram speed in mhz to the 266mhz fsb!

I had no idea it actually meant how fast your ram is going to be able to feed the effective data transfer rate!

So to recap, I increase my fsb to 333, which gives it a effective data transfer of 1333, and at a 1 : 1 ratio, I can be sure that my ram will always be running fast enough to feed it data as long as the ram can run fast enough eg. ddr2 pc- 6400


I think 1 : 1 ratio is best for me then, and there are no real benefits of running the ram at faster speeds than the fsb?

And i'd like to thank Proof, Zenmaster and mondoman all SO much for their help its really shed some light on this and Im no longer afraid to overclock :D 

- Thanks again, Liam :D 
April 4, 2007 9:00:06 PM

Yes, as long as you are running the RAM in dual-channel mode. This should happen automatically, but certain configurations (like having lone DIMMs, not pairs, installed) may not support dual-channel mode.
April 4, 2007 9:06:28 PM

Well I was planning on getting 2 x 1gb sticks of pc-6400 RAM, and putting them side by side in the comp, Im assuming they automatically go into dual channel mode when you do that right?

It will be a matching pair just so you know ^^

One quick thing, do problems arise when you use more than 2 sticks? for example the motherboard has 4 RAM slots and I was planning on filling all of them as games started to demand more than 2 gbs of ram.

Will I go into some crazy " quad channel " mode if I do that?

Or will it not affect anything. :?:

Thanks again =)
April 4, 2007 9:09:18 PM

You should be fine. If you expand to 4GB, you'll need to go to a 64-bit OS (e.g. 64-bit Vista), which will have its own transition problems, so I'd stick to 3GB max (adding 2x512MB).
!