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System Builder Marathon, May '09: $1,300 Enthusiast PC

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May 26, 2009 6:00:14 AM

As you know, we’ve changed things up for this System Builder Marathon, squeezing the best components we can into portable Micro-ATX cases. Sure, there were compromises, but the $1,300 enthusiast system turned out to be a gutsy little firecracker.

System Builder Marathon, May '09: $1,300 Enthusiast PC : Read more

More about : system builder marathon 300 enthusiast

May 26, 2009 6:22:53 AM

It looks like you guys have a fetish for silverstone sff cases, and small motherboards. You guys probably like other small things...
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0
May 26, 2009 6:48:43 AM

Was the peak power draw measured from the wall? If so, do you know the efficiency of the PSU to determine the approximate power draw from the components at a given level of output? Overall, great article. I hope my 650Watt PSU with 3 X 19A 12V rails can handle another GTX 260 Core 216.
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1
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May 26, 2009 6:52:35 AM

if you wanted to go SFF it would be nice to see one done in an LIAN-LI PC-A05NB. at least you still get the full atx boards in those.
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-3
May 26, 2009 6:58:39 AM

Quote:
This system is no slouch and cuts through our new gaming benchmarks like a hot knife through butter.

I wonder how exactly does the selection of components go. I mean it seems that there's some attention given to the forums to be politically correct, but that's kind of it. For $1300 a Phenom 2 + micro AM3 board + 2x4890 in crossfire is a much better solution so .. why not choose the better option?
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4
May 26, 2009 7:25:07 AM

That system looks quite crowded on the inside, and that Dark Knight is big for a regular sized system, I'm actually kind of impressed you managed to fit it in a Micro ATX at all. I suppose as long as it runs stable, theres really no problem. Still think the articles should be titled "Micro System Build-off" just to let people know off the bat what they're about to read.
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2
May 26, 2009 7:33:16 AM

No space at all between those 2 cards. poor cards have no choice but to overheat.
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3
May 26, 2009 7:35:52 AM

SpadeMI wonder how exactly does the selection of components go. I mean it seems that there's some attention given to the forums to be politically correct, but that's kind of it. For $1300 a Phenom 2 + micro AM3 board + 2x4890 in crossfire is a much better solution so .. why not choose the better option?
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1
May 26, 2009 8:15:26 AM

I'm tired of seeing I7 920 in every damn "recommended" PC. I'm not saying go AMD but please just try to vary them a bit it's getting stupid. Also try building your own benchmarks or at least change them once in a while.
Btw i\m getting tired of people picking up I7 and saying "because i do heavy CPU tasks" (not necessarily IzzyCraft ) and in fact all they need is a browser,OpenOffice and WoW minimized in the taskbar.
The article is well done no doubts but try using other brands also. It\s starting to sound biased.

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-6
May 26, 2009 8:20:09 AM

This article would be great if you could do : what you can buy for 1300 Intel parts and what you can by for 1300 AMD parts ... and put the 2 PCs to compeat to eachother :p  it would be a more interesting article than just buy a pc and ... show what ?
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17
May 26, 2009 8:29:08 AM

Nice slick system this - looks like 2 x 260's is pretty good value at 1920 x 1200 for those that want to max out the settings in the most demanding games. Was wondering however if there is a good technical explanation for the power consumption results because they seem pretty strange?
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2
May 26, 2009 8:31:08 AM

Unsuprisingly Intel/nvidia line continues. I went AMD/ATI so take that Tom!
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5
May 26, 2009 8:37:18 AM

About nvidia still surprised that they didn`t removed the 185.85 forceware drivers since that`s a total failure of drivers and it`s still being posted as the latest drivers even on windows update. Guess once you get the crown you get to piss on your customers as well.
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-7
May 26, 2009 8:50:57 AM

I can not believe how much we get screwed on computer bits here in the UK
I priced up the parts in this system and it comes out at £1098.00 on 26th May 2009 that means it comes out at $1740 a big difference
Motherboard
DFI LANParty Jr X58-T3H6 Micro-ATX
Intel X58/ICH10R, LGA1366
$220 uk £189.99

Processor
Intel Core i7-920
Four Cores, 2.66 GHz, 8 MB Cache
$289 UK £225

Memory
G.Skill 10666CL7T 6GBPK
Triple-channel memory kit 3 x 2 GB
$90 UK £80.73

Graphics
2 x BFG GeForce GTX 260 OC in SLI
896 MB GDDR3-1998 Per Card
590 MHz GPU, 1,296 MHz Shader
$340 UK £343

Hard Drive
Western Digital Caviar Black
640GD, 640 GB, 32 MB cache
$75 UK £51.60

Optical
Lite-On iHAS422 DVD±R
DVD Burner SATA
$28 UK £22

Case
SilverStone TJ08-B Micro-ATX Mini-Tower
$99 UK £59

Power
PC Power and Cooling Silencer 750 Quad S75QB, ATX12V 2.2, 80-Plus Certified
$120 UK £88

CPU Cooler
Xigmatek Dark Knight S1283
$40 UK £38
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1
May 26, 2009 9:14:15 AM

IzzyCraftThat's not a better solution it's just an AMD ATI themed solutionAlthough i guess it would be stronger in the fps in games it wouldn't be nearly as rounded system i rather have i7 because i do cpu heavy tasks just my viewI mean if they just wanted max fps they could have gone LGA775 with E8500 and shove 2 4890's in there i'm sure that would produce the highest fps.


The system builder marathon was always, in my mind at least, a competition between value and performance and they tended to pick the latest technologies. Sure even now for $1300 or even $2500 you can go with a Q600 or a q9650 .. it would be cheaper and the performance is similar to that of a i7 but without the bragging rights. And so paying $500+ just for a motherboard that doesn't do much since it's not used to overclock in a extreme fashion, and a processor that's 10% maybe 20% faster then it's previous Quad generations isn't going to cut it for me. That's why i was expecting a different quad core of another flavour, just to spice things up. And of course to top things off some new 4890. All in all it would have been a more balanced system that caters to the wishes of the enthusiast.

With all that said i can hardly wait for tomorrows $600 system, i wonder what GPU, RAM, PSU and HDD got picked to go with the ... i7+X58 combo
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May 26, 2009 9:29:39 AM

I just don't understand why the $2500 PC is equiped with intel stock cooler and this one with much better xigmatek...
Also higher overclock of this system vs $2500 PC seems silly if you actually intend to compare them and calculate price/performance ratio.
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5
May 26, 2009 9:44:46 AM

While I agree that a small water system would do wonders for the cooling solution, isn't a rear mounted radiator the first ingredient for a disastrous PORTABLE system? The last thing I want if I'm lugging my case in and out of a trunk is exposed parts that can leak.
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2
May 26, 2009 10:12:56 AM

wouldn't Scythe Ninja 2 be a better cooler for this system? I think it's the same price as the one used... And judging by my own experience with it it would have made the airflow from front to back possible.
If u had cut holes in the bottom near the fan for the graphics cards wouldn't it help?
I would have cut a hole big enough to fit a fan put a net over the fan, that would seriously cut those temperatures (I think)...
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May 26, 2009 10:18:51 AM

This one is a bit of a nightmare. I can say that, I hope, because I contributed to the parts selection thread and feel partly responsible. The case is too cramped for the system. Who could have guessed on the cooler though?
Maybe one of the top-down Scythes would have been better.
The 650W draw was a bit of a surprise. Good thing it's a PC P&C.
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May 26, 2009 10:20:55 AM

The noise table - If I was casually looking at the graphs I might be inclined to think that the default GPU fan ran at a fraction of the noise of the fan at full speed but when you look at the numbers it's more like a 20% increase. A bit misleading.

Good choice of CPU cooler although I might have gone with a the Titan Fenrir instead. However as ifko_pifko points out why did the more expensive $2500 system use a stock cooler yet you had the budget in the cheaper system for 3rd party cooling, very odd.
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May 26, 2009 10:52:19 AM

Quote:
Now, we can get to the heart of things: game benchmarks. This is what a portable LAN-party-sized system is made for in the first place, and is unfortunately where the CPU overclock will likely deliver diminishing gains as the resolution is raised and the graphics cards become the bottleneck.

If it were 'portable lan-party-sized', it wouldn't contain two dual-slot graphics cards on a micro-atx case, because of improper cooling. The choice of CPU heatsink it's also bad, and it may pose problems when the system is moved if handled improperly.
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Anonymous
May 26, 2009 10:56:31 AM

I am running 920 @ 3.5ghz with standard cooler why not here ? Stable @24/7
windows server 2003 64 bit with standard 6 x 2gb kingston
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-7
May 26, 2009 11:04:16 AM

... is there a need of such system anyway? What yo all do with such systems? It's interesting...
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May 26, 2009 11:05:11 AM

JeanLucThe noise table - If I was casually looking at the graphs I might be inclined to think that the default GPU fan ran at a fraction of the noise of the fan at full speed but when you look at the numbers it's more like a 20% increase. A bit misleading.Good choice of CPU cooler although I might have gone with a the Titan Fenrir instead. However as ifko_pifko points out why did the more expensive $2500 system use a stock cooler yet you had the budget in the cheaper system for 3rd party cooling, very odd.


I noticed that also however I believe that are doing that just to show how huge of a difference it is. My 4870 fan is at 33% idle 55% load(keeps it nice and cool though). 55% load is very loud esp with my computer right next to me. 100% load my desk rattles abit because the fan isnt perfectly centered and you can hear it in other rooms.
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May 26, 2009 11:07:34 AM

DjEaZy... is there a need of such system anyway? What yo all do with such systems? It's interesting...


We play video games... Encode video's do, video editing. Some do 3D work. We need all the processing power in order to be more efficent..
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May 26, 2009 11:10:15 AM

entercoIf it were 'portable lan-party-sized', it wouldn't contain two dual-slot graphics cards on a micro-atx case, because of improper cooling. The choice of CPU heatsink it's also bad, and it may pose problems when the system is moved if handled improperly.


I would have to agree, about the improper cooling. However the back plate for the CPU fan is a good idea.. I am not sure about the dimensions of the case but im sure you can fit some smaller HS/F units in there. If it was LGA775 I think the Artic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro would work well.
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May 26, 2009 11:17:29 AM

vorlessYeah wtf is with this micro atx shit.

If you read yesterday's you'd know they devoted this SBM to gamer cube style PCs...

I'd be happy with it... probably have to upgrade to a BR drive... but still nice. I'd have liked to see that measure of overclocked efficiency again.
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1
May 26, 2009 11:17:49 AM

... ok, i do it too... maybe it's because i'm in the other part of the planet... in Latvia... just... my friend has payed a sick sum of money to buy a box full of new HW... but i do stuff much faster on my half year old machine... my friend is wondering how... and i say, what my father use to say: "it's depends what is between keyboard and the chair"...
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0
May 26, 2009 12:26:08 PM

Even though Toms just did a marathon using only AMD CPUs, people are still upset that they used the best CPU for under $300 in this build. There's no winning, there are always going to be people that want to see Intel CPUs and people that want to see AMD CPUs and do not care what the best "fit" or "value" is.

That being said, love the build. I really do not like the mobo choice, but I understand going for MicroATX. Its not for me, but still a nice build and a hell of a system for $1300.
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-1
May 26, 2009 12:30:01 PM

The SFF and microatx boards made this the worst system builder marathon I can remember. It's a sad day.
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-7
May 26, 2009 12:44:25 PM

I like this build.
The back plate will handle the stress of moving it around.
For my use, I'd take out one GPU (my games don't need SLI) and put in a PCI slot cooler to help get rid of the heat. I would not want to run a GPU fan at 100%; how long would it last? I agree that cutting a hole in the bottom of the case would be a good idea.
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1
May 26, 2009 1:53:36 PM

Again with the lil DFI motherboard that could. Get a freaking Asus Rampage II Gene!!!
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2
May 26, 2009 2:28:42 PM

Bad luck or not, guy's that build was lame. One or two things can get wrong, but everything is wrong about this one. Relay disappointing....
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-2
May 26, 2009 2:35:18 PM

I like this month marathon! Why? Because it's different...
Like it was said: you don't need much creativity to build full atx ubermachine, but try to pull out one in m-atx! About the component choice, that's a different story, bet the article is superb!
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2
May 26, 2009 3:25:52 PM

The MicroATX layout makes sense: an "Enthusiast" rig could conceivably see some LAN Party fun, and given that DFI mobo doesn't seem to underperform its ATX equivalents, I'm not complaining.

Decent build. Can't believe we haven't seen more 4870 vs GTX 260 complaining though.
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May 26, 2009 3:40:29 PM

i figured an x3 720 and two 275's would be a no brainer for gaming, . . .
the am3 socket has just as bright a future as any i socket,
the phenom 2 would have less of a problem with heat, easy OC.
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0
May 26, 2009 3:52:26 PM

im all about small HI-PO systems! keep the mini itx and HTPC performance benchmarks commin! great work guys, i like this review, i just would have chose different parts.

i only build half a dozen systems a year or so, sometimes its hard to give these guys the benefit of the doubt but they have literally used hundreds of components,

and if had a friend of mine who isnt a computer person, had come home from a custom pc shop with this rig for 1300 bucks i would consider them having got a good system. if only the average PC shop was this good at assembling systems for people on a budget without getting jyped i mean, this world would be a much better place.

im sure many of us on here could make long cases for several other system builds on that price but, to the non power/gaming freak the differences probably wouldnt be noticeable to the average person.

oh a few weeks ago some THG reviews layouts were kind of messed, thanks for cleaning up these last few articles.
props THG.
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1
May 26, 2009 4:25:42 PM

Anything under a big mid tower or a full tower is unacceptable for a gaming PC.
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-8
May 26, 2009 4:55:12 PM

NaNoSoLdIeRwouldn't Scythe Ninja 2 be a better cooler for this system? ...

the Scythe Ninja 2 is compatable with Intel Socket 775 / 478 and AMD Socket AM2 / 939 / 940 / 754 CPUs. Not the LGA1366.
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0
May 26, 2009 4:59:19 PM

brisingameni figured an x3 720 and two 275's would be a no brainer for gaming, . . .the am3 socket has just as bright a future as any i socket, the phenom 2 would have less of a problem with heat, easy OC.


I agree. If you are making a computer for lans it should concentrate on gaming. But they would use 2 4890s for the dragon, not 275s
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2
May 26, 2009 5:16:11 PM

I'm not sure if Intel pays people for reviewing their product or not but i am noticing a bias toward intel in situations where the competition would provide almost as much performance for hundreds less. Sure i agree i7s are great but come on... I work for a retailer and participate in intel retail edge where they give a lot of their products away to sales people to try their products and become familiar over the competition, but i run both amd and intel systems and amd has the value over intel any day of the week even after overclocking. I was against the EU's decision to fine intel but for tom's to review ONLY INTEL on their enthusiast and performance SMB for the past 6 months? And who knows i bet tomorrows $600 will have an intel in it as well?
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-2
May 26, 2009 5:27:10 PM

That doesn't look like fun with all those wires cram into that mirco atx case...
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0
May 26, 2009 6:07:35 PM

JeanLuc: A bit misleading.Good choice of CPU cooler although I might have gone with a the Titan Fenrir instead. However as ifko_pifko points out why did the more expensive $2500 system use a stock cooler yet you had the budget in the cheaper system for 3rd party cooling, very odd.


Not completely sure about this, but I think the Titan Fenrir is not available in the US at the moment - it is a great choice in the UK though
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0
May 26, 2009 6:14:16 PM

There isn't an intel conspiracy here guys, the Phenom II option was heavily considered in making this build. As a part of the crowd who gave input on this build, I can attest to the fact that many of us felt that AMD deserved a little love, but in the end the price difference was only about $80 or so for the whole build, and the i7 puts up much more impressive numbers than Phenom II can, and i7 looked to be a much better option. Keep in mind this system was planned out and put together over a month ago, since it takes a lot of time to write, test and plan these builds out; the prices have changed a lot since then.

I am glad that THG is trying to explore new angles in the SBM. Its easy to build a Gaming PC in a Full tower, not so in the mATX FF. Lots of places such as anandtech put together full tower gaming PC's, THG is trying to explore a different niche. This SBM is the first review I have read on a lan-party gaming rig in a long while. Just because some of you don't have any friends doesn't mean that the rest of us don't and wouldn't be interested in a portable gaming powerhouse.
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5
May 26, 2009 6:34:40 PM

I was amd untill i got my 1st core 2 duo...6400.Now i have 8500 which is excelent...But as other guy said Where the hell is Amd in these games?
Why Tom's Hardware is NOT GIVING AMD A CHANCE?????????????????????????
It looks like Tom's is manipulating people with these articles to buy Intel products!!!!!!!!!
They even are publicing the interview with the guy from Puget Systems who is actually saing that amd in more difficult to ship cz the sinks are bigger and havier...tha's cz they are better heatsinks....Why tom's is not publicing something good about amd?And other brands too?
And rebember i'm not amd or intel fan!!!!I'm a costumer....i want to see my choises!!!!!!!!!!!
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-3
May 26, 2009 6:50:13 PM

Why is it that all these system builds never have things like keyboard, monitor, mouse, or most importantly, operating system included in the cost? I can understand keys, mouse, and monitor not included (somewhat), but I really don't anticipate building a gaming rig running linux exclusively. All things considered, given the target audience, shouldn't this built actually end up costing closer to the $3000 range after ALL of the elements of a complete system are tallied?
Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Tom's and can't thank them enough for keeping me in the loop. I just feel that (for the sake of any new readers or anyone new to DIY system builds) all components should be included in the overall cost (i.e. a system, OS, and KVM for $2500)
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-2
May 26, 2009 7:16:49 PM

What I don't understand is the GTX 260 SLI choice. Did you forget about THIS? The Core i7 build clearly favors one HD 4870 X2 over Nvidia cards! You could get the SAPPHIRE 100251SR Radeon HD 4870 X2 for a little more than those GTX 260s.
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-1
May 26, 2009 7:25:51 PM

JeanLucThe noise table - If I was casually looking at the graphs I might be inclined to think that the default GPU fan ran at a fraction of the noise of the fan at full speed but when you look at the numbers it's more like a 20% increase. A bit misleading.


Normally I'd agree with you, but you have to keep in mind that about 35-40 db is natural ambient noise that I can't personally distinguish from total silence, at least in my home with my ears. That's the reading I take get with PCs turened off, so the chart isn't as bad as it seems.
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0
May 26, 2009 7:26:13 PM

serifusif you wanted to go SFF it would be nice to see one done in an LIAN-LI PC-A05NB. at least you still get the full atx boards in those.


Like the $1300 PC, the Lian-Li PC-A05NB is not SFF, it's a Micro ATX tower. SFF has only two slots and it's really a shame that so many users have misused the term that some manufacturers and retailers are following suit, but you really do have to keep 4-slot and 2-slot boards separate. Micro ATX is a form factor of its own.
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0
May 26, 2009 7:32:40 PM

I would really like to see the day that a SBM has a Phenom in it as well as some Radeons...... This is just like the anti-competitive behavior that the EU was talking about. All I see is Intel and Nvidia in these builds man!

Show us what you can get for the same amount of money using AMD and ATI hardware. Might get more bang for your buck and able to put extra in the build and you pocket.

It's really boring to watch an I7 under and overclock all the time. There are other CPU manufacturers Toms!!!!!!!!!!!!
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0
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