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First R600 a joke ?

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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April 5, 2007 6:16:04 PM

I was reading some reviews and something came to mind. I read that AMD/ATI already have R600 ready, but they are choosing not to release it yet.

So what i'm thinking is, the 8800gtx holds the performance crown right now. Lets say that the first R600 card comes out and it is at least decently faster then the 8800gtx. Well it's not like Nvidia has been sitting around doing nothing, they will wait a little bit and most likely release the 8900gtx.

in which case ATI will have to release another product to compete (i'm guessing/hoping they have been working on this as we speak)

So would buying the first R600 that comes out be a mistake, knowing that there are cards right around the corner that are already better ?

More about : r600 joke

April 5, 2007 6:44:54 PM

Quote:

So would buying the first R600 that comes out be a mistake, knowing that there are cards right around the corner that are already better ?


If it has great price/performance, it's no more of a mistake than buying an 8800 today.

We'll see what it brings to the table, and how much it costs...
April 5, 2007 7:20:53 PM

Quote:

So would buying the first R600 that comes out be a mistake, knowing that there are cards right around the corner that are already better ?


If it has great price/performance, it's no more of a mistake than buying an 8800 today.

We'll see what it brings to the table, and how much it costs...


There is always going to be something else just around the bend!
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April 5, 2007 7:21:57 PM

I agree. It just depends on what you want. There will always be another card "just around the corner" that will wreck whatever you have just purchased.
April 5, 2007 7:24:12 PM

Quote:


So would buying the first R600 that comes out be a mistake, knowing that there are cards right around the corner that are already better ?

well it's seems that always are better cards around the corner it's just the way it is in the gpu market,everybody has a few tricks left and at least an ace in their sleeve :twisted:
April 5, 2007 7:25:32 PM

I would say the exact opposite, since their desicion to release the R600 with the model name of X2900, that there will be no more major revisions to the R600 like the diff between X1800 and X1900. Also the best you have to look for is to a overclocked version of R600 (X2950) with DDR4. Since they've manufactured it already on 80nm, you're not going to get the difference like the 7800 to 7900 of the optical shrink because 80nm to 65nm would be allot of work and it would be best just to use the time to R700.
April 5, 2007 7:35:35 PM

not really, all high performance cards like that are just to answer the call of super enthusiasts who have huge pockets, so even if the 8900gtx beats the r600 its not gonna affect you is it? so you dont really need to worry about it unless you want to spend the $500+ it will be to get either card


what you really want to worry about is the pricing on the the lower high-end cards like the upcoming 8900gs and 8900gt. im not buying any dx10 cards until i see benchmarks and how much better the cards perform over my current 7900gto, if its worth the money then ill get a new card, if not ill wait
April 5, 2007 8:12:52 PM

The trick to these things is to wait until there is no foreseeable technology replacing the latest and the greatest.... that is the time to buy.
April 5, 2007 9:06:29 PM

Quote:
The trick to these things is to wait until there is no foreseeable technology replacing the latest and the greatest.... that is the time to buy.


I tend to agree with you, but like i said the 8900's are just around the corner, along with the R600, so i was thinking on waiting till the 8900's were out and seeing is there was a response from ati, if not, bam go with the 8900's :p 
April 5, 2007 9:18:50 PM

I was being sarcastic.

There is always something around the corner and if you always waited until what was around the corner to hit the shelves, you would never upgrade and aways be waiting.
April 5, 2007 9:55:57 PM

My method is a little more crude and caveman like.
I play games.
Games don't perform good. (by my personal standard)
I look at cards, see which card performs best for games.
Buy card
keep card until games no play good
I look at cards, see which card performs best for games.
Buy Card
Keep card until game no play good.
Repeat every 12-18 months

I do tend to buy the higher-end, but that normally tops out around $400-450. And I try not to buy the first 2-3 months a card comes out. There always seems to be about a $75 price break after that. Which last time was the difference between getting a 1800XT versus 1900XTX.

Same process for CPUs.

Sound cards, I tend to skip 2 generations

The only place where you really have to debate yourself is stuff like knowing that DDR3 memory is on it's way to mainstream. So I'm holding off as long as possible and hoping to jump on that bandwagon, By passing DDR2 altogether.
April 5, 2007 10:02:47 PM

I brought the 8800 GTX in December fully expecting it to be trounced by the R600 in January. I brought the card not for DX10 or future proofing. but for playing current games. Im shocked its still the top card but it doesnt really matter if another card comes out it doesnt change the fact that Im still getting what I paid for. Buy what you can afford when you need it. Its gonna be beaten hands down in 6 months anyway. Might as well have 6 months top flight gaming for your money.
April 5, 2007 10:14:23 PM

Something funny there?
April 5, 2007 10:21:43 PM

What would be funny about buying a 8800gtx for current games, it is the best performing card out there for current games, I dont really care about directx10 yet the games arent out, 8800gtx performance in DX10 is not proven, and Crysis doesnt look like my sort of game..

Being as I wanted to run my games at 2048x1536 I needed a decent graphics card.

What would be funny about expecting the R600 to beat the 8800GTX and Im sure I wasnt alone in expecting the R600 along sooner than its actually going to come out.
April 5, 2007 10:30:40 PM

Still cant see why you would be laughing??

Surely you can see the advice buy the best you can when you have the money to, and dont worry about whats coming out next month?

Dont see much funny about that. Unless you are running into issues with the 8800gtx in SLI? Not having any issues with mine.
April 5, 2007 10:36:45 PM

I brought mine home from the office where it got delivered /shifty

ok you got me that would be the devonshire grammar coming through there. RobsX2 1 DTQ 0
April 5, 2007 10:42:55 PM

Not a problem got a grin on my face here. :lol: . Have to say my typing and use of the english language can both leave a lot to be desired at times, however I think my IT decisions are normally pretty good. Would rather be pulled up for brought bought or minor typos than l337 Speak.

Only got a C in English from what I remember :lol: 
a b U Graphics card
April 5, 2007 10:49:35 PM

Quote:
Since they've manufactured it already on 80nm, you're not going to get the difference like the 7800 to 7900 of the optical shrink because 80nm to 65nm would be allot of work and it would be best just to use the time to R700.


80-65 is not an optical shrink, it's a completely new process, 90->80 was the optical shrink.

Yields from the 65nm transition should actually look very beneficial, but the thing about the GF7800->7900 is that they also change the # of transistors significanlty (dropping about 15%) so it was far more than just a move from 110nm to 90nm.
April 5, 2007 11:15:23 PM

Well, after nvidia releases their response to the R600, ATi already has another thing waiting. A new PCB that can do 1ghz core clocks.
April 6, 2007 7:41:20 AM

ATI Video Cards R600 coming out this may. They already tested a pre ATI R600 vs Nvidia 8800 GTX and ATI clearly beat nvidia in all game bench marks. All games it looked better on ATi like always, And these pre R600 drivers were not optimized during bench marks. So these cards will be even much faster than Nvidia once optimized. Also, ATi R600 has much better pixel shaders than nvidia.
Check here for benchmark results http://level505.com/2006/12/30/the-full-ati-r600-test/1...
April 6, 2007 7:50:36 AM

If I were you, I'd delete that post right now. Cause EVERYONE (Except for me) is gonna flame you.

That lvl505 article? It MAY be true, but it seems like something happened to those guys. Trust me, don't quote from them. I've seem many o' people get flamed for it.

Also, it seemed slightly biased, since the 8800GTX scores did not even come close to what other users had seen.
April 6, 2007 11:26:28 AM

Yes, the lvl505 "benchmark" is probably the most notoriously fake technical review of the past decade. Of course its conclusion is likely not too far off the mark, I'm pretty sure the X2900 will beat the G80 by a good margin in most apps. It darn well better anyway, since it's coming out nearly a year after G80 was introduced.
April 6, 2007 11:44:12 AM

Quote:
My method is a little more crude and caveman like.
I play games.
Games don't perform good. (by my personal standard)
I look at cards, see which card performs best for games.
Buy card
keep card until games no play good
I look at cards, see which card performs best for games.
Buy Card
Keep card until game no play good.
Repeat every 12-18 months


Word.
a b U Graphics card
April 6, 2007 12:48:37 PM

Quote:
So would buying the first R600 that comes out be a mistake, knowing that there are cards right around the corner that are already better ?


My opinion, jumping on the 8800gtx bandwagon was a mistake let alone jumping on the first release of R600. NVidia and ATI have established a pattern of first releasing a version of a card and then releasing an updated version with better driver support, less power consumption, and less heat issues. Don't get me wrong, the 8800gtx and the 1st release of the R600 is and will be great performing cards but with early adoption comes all the bugs and issues.
April 6, 2007 12:52:50 PM

Quote:
So would buying the first R600 that comes out be a mistake, knowing that there are cards right around the corner that are already better ?


Ati will release more than one r600 at the same time.
April 6, 2007 4:22:52 PM

Here we go again :roll:
a b U Graphics card
April 6, 2007 10:28:36 PM

Quote:
My opinion, jumping on the 8800gtx bandwagon was a mistake


Yeah these past 5-6 months of me running any game I wish to run with 16XAA and 16XAF with maxed out settings at 1680X1050 along with blazing FPS has been a real let down :roll:

In fact it was such a bad mistake that I actually purchased a second 8800GTX for SLI :lol: 

Seriously, unless you own one you need to STFU before making retarded statements like these.

Wow! You are the geek supreme with your 8800's in SLI. All your little sphincter pals must be uber impressed with your massive framerates. It's a shame you need to pull out the e-penis, probably because you can't whip out the real thing. No DX10 games and to ~$1K makes you some kind of real genius. Go f*ck yourself, tough guy.

Whatever...
April 6, 2007 11:31:24 PM

Quote:
Also, ATi R600 has much better pixel shaders than nvidia.


Are they more shiney or something?
April 6, 2007 11:53:53 PM

Quote:
My opinion, jumping on the 8800gtx bandwagon was a mistake


Yeah these past 5-6 months of me running any game I wish to run with 16XAA and 16XAF with maxed out settings at 1680X1050 along with blazing FPS has been a real let down :roll:

In fact it was such a bad mistake that I actually purchased a second 8800GTX for SLI :lol: 

Seriously, unless you own one you need to STFU before making retarded statements like these.

Wow! You are the geek supreme with your 8800's in SLI. All your little sphincter pals must be uber impressed with your massive framerates. It's a shame you need to pull out the e-penis, probably because you can't whip out the real thing. No DX10 games and to ~$1K makes you some kind of real genius. Go f*ck yourself, tough guy.

Whatever...You're right, I'm sure Oblivion is a really nice slide show on your 7900GT. :lol: 
a b U Graphics card
April 6, 2007 11:55:09 PM

Let me shed some shade on ati's shaders.Shedding some shade shows shaders shockingly shiny and thats for sure.
April 7, 2007 12:20:52 AM

I believe if you got the dough ....go for it :p  ...As a guy like me can't have the latest and greatest,Two 8800gtx's sounds pre sweeeeet runnin everything cranked 8O .But I can agree with alot of the people here,I'll wait and find out the best reviewed equipment for the $$$,and decide from there.
April 7, 2007 1:43:51 AM

Quote:
Still cant see why you would be laughing??

Surely you can see the advice buy the best you can when you have the money to, and dont worry about whats coming out next month?

Dont see much funny about that. Unless you are running into issues with the 8800gtx in SLI? Not having any issues with mine.


robx is well know for being a general forum moron, apart from his addiction to reply every single post in each thread just like he had aspergers, Id just ignore him :|

Quote:
ATI Video Cards R600 coming out this may. They already tested a pre ATI R600 vs Nvidia 8800 GTX and ATI clearly beat nvidia in all game bench marks. All games it looked better on ATi like always, And these pre R600 drivers were not optimized during bench marks. So these cards will be even much faster than Nvidia once optimized. Also, ATi R600 has much better pixel shaders than nvidia.
Check here for benchmark results http://level505.com/2006/12/30/the-full-ati-r600-test/1...


Mr.Noob.... you must be seriusly new and noob, because there as been ages since that website as been confirmed to be TOTAL FUD...bullshit..etc.. you name it.. D:


Quote:
Yes, the lvl505 "benchmark" is probably the most notoriously fake technical review of the past decade. Of course its conclusion is likely not too far off the mark, I'm pretty sure the X2900 will beat the G80 by a good margin in most apps. It darn well better anyway, since it's coming out nearly a year after G80 was introduced.

agree there, even when they were using the FX-60's.. to power the GTX (and we know the GTX do eat cpu like the FX72's eats power )would save them from looking a BULL website.....
and almost all others benchmarks used core2duos anyway
April 7, 2007 8:07:16 PM

Quote:
Also, ATi R600 has much better pixel shaders than nvidia.


Are they more shiney or something?
lol
April 9, 2007 1:47:48 PM

Always on my a$$, sorry stand corrected.
April 9, 2007 2:19:42 PM

Quote:
I was reading some reviews and something came to mind. I read that AMD/ATI already have R600 ready, but they are choosing not to release it yet.

So what i'm thinking is, the 8800gtx holds the performance crown right now. Lets say that the first R600 card comes out and it is at least decently faster then the 8800gtx. Well it's not like Nvidia has been sitting around doing nothing, they will wait a little bit and most likely release the 8900gtx.

in which case ATI will have to release another product to compete (i'm guessing/hoping they have been working on this as we speak)

So would buying the first R600 that comes out be a mistake, knowing that there are cards right around the corner that are already better ?


I could be that ATI has designed R600 to compete with the 8900, not the 8800. It could come out and be a completely different class of beast than the 8800.
-cm
April 9, 2007 2:30:01 PM

Quote:


You got a problem?

Stranger knows me well enough to know how to take STFU from me.


Thank GOD for the ignore button. You have officially been ignored, don't bother replying to my posts, as I will not be able to see them 8)
April 9, 2007 2:33:59 PM

Quote:

I could be that ATI has designed R600 to compete with the 8900, not the 8800. It could come out and be a completely different class of beast than the 8800.
-cm


I am almost positive that this is true, however, I do not thing nVidia has been sleeping all this time, the 8900 is surely ready! (Of course, I didn't think AMD was sleeping when they were on top either, but C2D owned them and we have yet to see a comeback.)
April 9, 2007 2:35:03 PM

Quote:
Mr.Noob.... you must be seriusly new and noob, because there as been ages since that website as been confirmed to be TOTAL FUD...bullshit..etc.. you name it.. D:


You post count is a little low there yourself...
I'm still noob in here, and I more than double you.
-cm
April 9, 2007 2:36:19 PM

Sorry for the double post guys...
Anyway TSI, what are you saying? Are you saying R600 is > or < 8900 you thinks?
-cm
April 9, 2007 2:45:15 PM

I am hoping they will trade blows/be equal in performance. If they are, that should mean better pricing for us!!! I think nVidia will release the 8900 shortly after r600, just a guess though...
April 9, 2007 2:51:35 PM

Are you going to buy one? Can you grab one for me :?:
-cm
April 11, 2007 5:12:37 AM

ATI not ready to release yet ... what a joke ! They want to wait until NVIDIA makes the first 2 million from sales " I THINK NOT ! " If I remember right nvidia took 3-4 years of developing their 8800's ! They scream and ATI just can't beat them in any respect and can't release anything as good or better . Their " ATI R600 " release candidates ran hotter and were huge ! R600's are a joke so far . There's been NO bad issues so far on the 8800's . The worst thing that happened to gamers is the day AMD bought out ATI ! I have a feeling ATI/AMD is going to postpone yet again any release of a half descent video card . Don't hold your breath for them to offer anything ever ! The newest behind the doors chatter I'm getting is the next generation nvidia's are going to be lower end models yet . I myself am thinking of getting a 8800 gts overclocker for now and if needed crossfiring 2 of them later when the prices may drop !
April 11, 2007 5:51:37 AM

Quote:
I myself am thinking of getting a 8800 gts overclocker for now and if needed crossfiring 2 of them later when the prices may drop !


:lol: 
no comment
April 11, 2007 12:54:58 PM

What? Its a reasonable, knowledgable statement. :wink:
-cm
April 11, 2007 1:04:56 PM

There has been some info released on the R600, but until someone actually gets their hands on the card and pits both beasts against each other we wont actually know the exact performance of the R600. One thing I do know about the R600 its several inches longer than the 8800. So eh, if the R600 doesn't beat out the 8800GTX, you can always resort to saying, "Well at least mine's is bigger than yours." :mrgreen:
April 11, 2007 1:19:36 PM

Quote:
ATI not ready to release yet ... what a joke ! They want to wait until NVIDIA makes the first 2 million from sales " I THINK NOT ! " If I remember right nvidia took 3-4 years of developing their 8800's ! They scream and ATI just can't beat them in any respect and can't release anything as good or better . Their " ATI R600 " release candidates ran hotter and were huge ! R600's are a joke so far . There's been NO bad issues so far on the 8800's . The worst thing that happened to gamers is the day AMD bought out ATI ! I have a feeling ATI/AMD is going to postpone yet again any release of a half descent video card . Don't hold your breath for them to offer anything ever ! The newest behind the doors chatter I'm getting is the next generation nvidia's are going to be lower end models yet . I myself am thinking of getting a 8800 gts overclocker for now and if needed crossfiring 2 of them later when the prices may drop !


LOL :lol:  This entire post steadily gets stupider as it goes along. And ends with a spectacular grand finale.
April 11, 2007 1:50:26 PM

Actually the retail version is closer to the size of an 8800 gts..
April 11, 2007 2:03:39 PM

Well, for once, I was going to try the early adopters game for the r600. But all I have been hearing is about how hot they will run and that 65nm cards will be out soon to replace them.... I am unsure of what I will do. My x1950Pro runs everything maxed out at playable framerates anyway (even at my 1680x1050 res)... so I can wait as long as I need to, really.
a b U Graphics card
April 11, 2007 3:55:56 PM

I say if you have an X1950Pro and it does you well, then wait for either the games that require an upgrade or the options you like best (65nm R600 and Slightly better priced GTS-640 are attractive in theory, we just need to see product before relying on stuff like that). I'd personally wait too, either for the games or for the perfect deal (since you have the luxury of the X1950Pro).
April 11, 2007 4:07:34 PM

Yeah, Oblivion and Gothic3 really put the choke hold on it, but it still runs them smoothly (albeit low fps). Everything else I have tried is perfect though.
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