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First Venture into the world of Linux.

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June 27, 2006 12:52:55 AM

Hey guys just purchased Linux Format magazine the other day and it came with a dvd with Fedora Core5, and 6 other Distors. WTH is a Distro?? anywhay the Distros include
SUSE Live
Ubuntu Live
Morphix
Games Knoppix
Looking Glass 3d Live CdDamn small linux.
My question is, Im running xp pro, and just wondering is it posssible to create a partition for linux?? Will my xp still work fine with Linux installed??
I;m just a bigginer @ linux so I could really use professional help out there. What would be the easiest linux to use for me?? I heard that Fedora Core 5 is a great easy to use os. But here is another problem, when I try to partition my HD through the Fedora installer, i have no idea what to do.
When I install linux, how will I be able to use the internet?? Are there any drivers for my 7900gt?? How bout the x-FI that I have?? Just wondering how does linux work its components if it doesnt have any driver for them????

Any help would be thankful

:twisted:

More about : venture world linux

a b 5 Linux
June 27, 2006 10:45:17 AM

Quote:
Hey guys just purchased Linux Format magazine the other day and it came with a dvd with Fedora Core5, and 6 other Distors. WTH is a Distro?? anywhay the Distros include
SUSE Live
Ubuntu Live
Morphix
Games Knoppix
Looking Glass 3d Live CdDamn small linux.
My question is, Im running xp pro, and just wondering is it posssible to create a partition for linux?? Will my xp still work fine with Linux installed??
I;m just a bigginer @ linux so I could really use professional help out there. What would be the easiest linux to use for me?? I heard that Fedora Core 5 is a great easy to use os. But here is another problem, when I try to partition my HD through the Fedora installer, i have no idea what to do.
When I install linux, how will I be able to use the internet?? Are there any drivers for my 7900gt?? How bout the x-FI that I have?? Just wondering how does linux work its components if it doesnt have any driver for them????

Any help would be thankful

:twisted:




:-D

Here ya go:

http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/fedora-install-guide-en/f...

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Linux


While you can resize your windoze partition to make room for Linux, it is usually better and safer to use a 2nd HDD if you have one.

I would suggest you try FC5 and Ubuntu.

Hope this helps :-D
a b 5 Linux
June 27, 2006 1:25:26 PM

I firmly support the second HDD notion, I usually suggest it to new Linux users. Of course that's not how I started :D 

If a spare HDD just isn't in the cards, you will need to break off a chunk of your current disk. However, if Windows is installed on a motherboard-based RAID, it's probably in your best interest to seriously consider getting another drive. Seriously.

If not, the process I suggest and use personally when installing for friends is as follows (assumes you only have C:, if you have other partitions some of these steps will require tweaking, let us know if you do have other partitions and their sizes):


Boot into Windows

- Download and burn the gparted livecd. This will let you resize the NTFS/FAT32 partition Windows is currently sitting on.

-Fire off a disk defrag and disk check on C:. Just a good idea.

-Place the burned CD into the tray, reboot


In BIOS

-Make sure it's set to boot from CD


In LiveCD

-At boot: prompt, press enter

-Each time it asks you a question, the safe route is to answer with the default answer. Choose others that make sense if you'd like (i.e. choosing the native resolution if you use an LCD)

-Select the Windows Partition, right-click and select "resize"

-You can either drag the end or enter in a specific value here, just make sure to give linux ~ 5-6 Gigs. A little more is preferred.

-Make sure that the free space is at the "end" of the disk ([|####| ])

-Quit the LiveCD (File->Quit then RightClick->reboot)


Optional (but highly recommended) step

-If Windows is installed on an NTFS partition (very, very likely), Linux will be able to read the windows partition, but won't be able to write to it.

-The solution I use is to create (back in Windows) a FAT32 partition. Make this as big or as small as you want, just make sure to leave enough room (~5 G) of freespace for Linux.

-Note that you can make the NTFS partition a little closer to the actual size take by it than you'd like (since it prevents installation of a lot of new programs) by movind data (personal documents, MP3's, movies, gamesaves, etc) to the new FAT32 partition, freeing up additional space in the NTFS partition. This is a preferable setup because in the case of OS failure, reinstalling windows can be done as a fresh reinstall without losing your data.

-Back up an personal data. Just a good idea.


Installing Linux

-Reboot the machine with your chosen "distro" (a released group of applications and a sometimes tailored Linux kernel and kernel modules, shaped either by a community or a company) in the drive (or select it from a boot menu or however the disk works). You may also download other distros, free of charge. Many new users try Fedora, SuSE, or Ubuntu. All are very easy to use.

-Upon startup of the installation, point the installer to the free space and have it make the partitions for you.

-Follow the on-screen instructions of the installer. Should be pretty self-explanitory

-When the installation gets to the boot management installation area, more often than noot it will "just work" and recognize your Windows installation. This will allow you to boot either Windows or Linux.

-Finish up, usually includes inputting a root (administrator) password, making a daily user (w/ password), network settings (router/cable/dsl? choose dhcp), and some hardware detection (make sure it looks reasonable, i.e. lists an NVidia card only if you have an NVidia card).

-One of the first things most people do early is to install new graphics drivers. Going to google on this one is probably preferable (search "$DISTRO_NAME install $CARD_VENDOR drivers", e.g. "Ubuntu install nvidia drivers")

-Enjoy! Post back any issue that might pop up.


and, as linux_0 always (and corrrectly) suggests, read through a guide
Related resources
a b 5 Linux
June 27, 2006 1:52:53 PM

:trophy: :trophy: :trophy:


Excellent post :-D :-D
June 28, 2006 1:44:33 PM

Thaks alot that really help, but Im gonna wait for my next paycheck and get a new HD :D  Just to be on the safe side.
But I was just wondering about the drivers and such. I really appreciate your help, I finnaly have an idea On what to do with linux, how bout the other DISTROS??? are they harder to use?? will they require more Computer language at my arsenal??
Thanks guys :D 
a b 5 Linux
June 28, 2006 1:52:29 PM

Quote:
Thaks alot that really help, but Im gonna wait for my next paycheck and get a new HD :D  Just to be on the safe side.
But I was just wondering about the drivers and such. I really appreciate your help, I finnaly have an idea On what to do with linux, how bout the other DISTROS??? are they harder to use?? will they require more Computer language at my arsenal??
Thanks guys :D 




Effectively there is only one driver you have to worry about your VGA driver.

If you have an nVidia VGA you need one of these: http://www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html

If you have an ATI card:
https://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=...



If you do not need hardware acceleration you don't even have to install the VGA drivers.

The distros come with 99.9% of the drivers you're going to need.
June 28, 2006 3:19:10 PM

I know that ppl use linux cuz it is far more superior than Microsoft, but my question is why?? can you still do the same t hings that Microsoft Works can do, like word and excel??
How bout gaming?? :D 
I really dought gaming, buy who knows.
As you stated linux comes with 99.99% Drivers for my hardware, does that Include my DFi SLI-DR Expert, my x-fi and my wireless router and printer?? If yes, why dont all companies use linux insted of Windows??
Sound to me that Linux is far more superior than Windows?
:twisted:
a b 5 Linux
June 28, 2006 3:29:18 PM

Like linux_0 said, really most people only have to worry about the video driver. ATI and expecially NVidia has nice, easy to use installers these days. If you do put Linux on a laptop, sometimes wireless cards can require additional drivers.

Also, good choice going with an additional drive. Will make things much easier and with how cheap they are these days, there's little reason not to grab an on-sale deal. I still suggest using either Windows or GParteD LiveCD to make a FAT32 partition to move data back and forth between Windows and Linux.

In terms of Distros, really they tend to fall somewhere on a spectrum, from exremely easy to use out of the box to those which are extremely configurable. Generally speaking, most of the popular distros are pretty easy to use and don't really require programming or anything, of course you can add functionality if you want to :) 

Don't get me wrong, there will be a learning curve to become familiar with how Linux does things, however the popular distros have many helpful tools to smooth out the transition.

General Recomendations:
Great starters: Ubuntu, Fedora Core, SuSE, damn small linux

Powerful but a bit more complecated (not for most first-timers): Gentoo (my fave), Debian, Slackware, one of many other lesser-known distros (usually with a specific focus like smoothwall for making a powerful router/VPN enpoint/etc.)
June 28, 2006 3:45:03 PM

So with some spent time on linux, One can learn the computer language and advance to other advanced user distros??
Such as slackware?? What do the other distros require that might be difficult for me as a first time user?? Any C+ or any other lanuage skill requirements??
Thanks. :twisted:
a b 5 Linux
June 28, 2006 3:55:04 PM

Quote:
I know that ppl use linux cuz it is far more superior than Microsoft, but my question is why?? can you still do the same t hings that Microsoft Works can do, like word and excel??
How bout gaming?? :D 
I really dought gaming, buy who knows.
As you stated linux comes with 99.99% Drivers for my hardware, does that Include my DFi SLI-DR Expert, my x-fi and my wireless router and printer?? If yes, why dont all companies use linux insted of Windows??
Sound to me that Linux is far more superior than Windows?
:twisted:



It is better than windoze in many ways, although nothing is perfect.

http://www.openoffice.org/ is 95% compatible with M$ Office which is better compatibility than office since M$ office in only about 80% compatible with itself on a good day.


Linux makes a decent platform for games, however it is not always a good platform for windoze-only games.

Linux has the ability to run software from several other operating systems and even different computer architectures.

For example Linux can run DOS, windows, Unix and game console games and applications however some will not run perfectly.

There are special tools which can run virtually any Operating system like:

QEMU http://qemu.org/

VMWare http://www.vmware.com/download/server/

and others like:

WINE http://winehq.org/

Cedega http://www.transgaming.com/ ( commercial version of WINE )

Crossover http://www.codeweavers.com/

win4lin http://www.win4lin.com/content/view/59/94/ ( commercial version of QEMU )

DOSBox http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/news.php?show_news=1


:-D
a b 5 Linux
June 28, 2006 4:21:24 PM

Quote:
So with some spent time on linux, One can learn the computer language and advance to other advanced user distros??
Such as slackware?? What do the other distros require that might be difficult for me as a first time user?? Any C+ or any other lanuage skill requirements??
Thanks. :twisted:




Yes indeed you can start with easy distributions and move to more advanced ones later on as you learn more about the system.

Some distributions like Gentoo require a lot of work because you have to compile everything from source code. That usually requires a lot of time and effort.

You don't need to know how to program but knowing C or C++ would certainly help :-D

On the more user friendly distributions like the ones bmouring mentioned above you almost never have to compile anything unless you really want to.


On Debian based distros (like Ubuntu, Knoppix, DSL, etc ) you can apt-get virtually any package.

On RedHat'ish distros ( like RHEL, Fedora, CentOS, etc ) you can rpm or yum just about anything you want.

Once you install a nice distro like Ubuntu, Fedora or SuSE and VMWare, etc you can run any other distro you want in a virtual machine. You can also run windoze, DOS, etc.

VMWare and QEMU normally allow you to run almost 100% of what you can run on a native windoze machine however they are not ideal for games because the virtual VGA cards are not as good as the actual hardware.

Virtual Machines require a ton of RAM but if you have the RAM you can run almost anything painlessly.
June 29, 2006 5:22:51 AM

so you are saying the the c and C++ language will come naturraly when using Linux?? Or will I have to commit myself into learing??
a b 5 Linux
June 29, 2006 5:32:14 AM

Quote:
so you are saying the the c and C++ language will come naturraly when using Linux?? Or will I have to commit myself into learing??





C and C++ are entirely optional unless you want to learn. :-D

Perl, PHP and shell are required ;-)

jk :lol: 
June 29, 2006 5:57:03 AM

IM ont he ling for the vga drivers for linux but I am confused, Solaris? x86
Which driver do I need for my Evga 7900gt??
June 29, 2006 2:07:22 PM

Alright thanks Linux_0 You've really helped me alot into my first venture into the world of linux :D 
Is it true that once your in Linux you will never go back to Window??
What are some of the features that Linux has to offer that windows cant??
I know that Linuz Has 99.99% of all the drivers for different hardware that you might need, but is there anything else thats really special bout it??
I deicided that Im just going to partition my HD fist, cuz it will be at least 3weeks until I have my money then order a HD. SO Partion the HD with linux?? Or by using Windows.? :twisted:
a b 5 Linux
June 29, 2006 5:46:14 PM

Quote:
Alright thanks Linux_0 You've really helped me alot into my first venture into the world of linux :D 
Is it true that once your in Linux you will never go back to Window??
What are some of the features that Linux has to offer that windows cant??
I know that Linuz Has 99.99% of all the drivers for different hardware that you might need, but is there anything else thats really special bout it??
I deicided that Im just going to partition my HD fist, cuz it will be at least 3weeks until I have my money then order a HD. SO Partion the HD with linux?? Or by using Windows.? :twisted:



:-D

That is usually true. Once you have Linux setup and working the way you like it there is not much you need to go back to windows for except windows-only games.

All my machines run Linux, the only machine that dual boots Linux and windoze is my game machine.


Linux has alternatives for virtually everything windoze offers.

If those alternatives do not work well for ya, you can always fire up windoze under VMWare or QEMU or use WINE.

To resize your windows partition please refer to bmouring's great instructions on GParted


What kind of machine are you planning to do this on btw?
a b 5 Linux
June 29, 2006 6:29:42 PM

IN terms of C or C++ coming naturaly from using Linux, that really doesn't happen. You will very likely become familiar first with shell scripts and interpreted languages such as perl and python, but none of it just "comes".

However, if you do start learning the languages, the Unix-like environemnt of Linux makes programming much easier pretty much across the board.

If you are looking to get started with writing software, I suggest enrolling in a class or finishing an online tutorial of any one of the languages you'd prefer, the most important thing about learning to write software, nomatter the language, is to get down some of the ideas of programming and thinking in terms of algorithms and data structures. Also, if you are bent on C++ or especially C, it might be worth your while to enroll in a microprocessing course or to read as much as you can online, a fine architecture to start with is either the MIPS architecture (which is very nice due to the SPIM emulator letting you write actual assembly) or, if you have some money to spare (doesn't sound like it, maybe later) a nice prototyping board with a simpel microcontroller/microprocessor (like an ARM or a motorola HC line or something from Atmel).

Just some ideas you can look over...

Also, for installation to the same hard disk, the isntructions that I had listed in my previous post I have personally used many times successfully, so it should work fine for you. If you have any issues or questions, don't hesitate to come back here and ask.

Cheers.
a b 5 Linux
June 29, 2006 7:52:40 PM

Quote:
IN terms of C or C++ coming naturaly from using Linux, that really doesn't happen. You will very likely become familiar first with shell scripts and interpreted languages such as perl and python, but none of it just "comes".

However, if you do start learning the languages, the Unix-like environemnt of Linux makes programming much easier pretty much across the board.

If you are looking to get started with writing software, I suggest enrolling in a class or finishing an online tutorial of any one of the languages you'd prefer, the most important thing about learning to write software, nomatter the language, is to get down some of the ideas of programming and thinking in terms of algorithms and data structures. Also, if you are bent on C++ or especially C, it might be worth your while to enroll in a microprocessing course or to read as much as you can online, a fine architecture to start with is either the MIPS architecture (which is very nice due to the SPIM emulator letting you write actual assembly) or, if you have some money to spare (doesn't sound like it, maybe later) a nice prototyping board with a simpel microcontroller/microprocessor (like an ARM or a motorola HC line or something from Atmel).

Just some ideas you can look over...

Also, for installation to the same hard disk, the isntructions that I had listed in my previous post I have personally used many times successfully, so it should work fine for you. If you have any issues or questions, don't hesitate to come back here and ask.

Cheers.





Great advice as always :-D

Of course there is also the cheapskate / poor person approach.

man + info + /usr/doc + other free documentation + google :wink:
June 30, 2006 6:24:02 AM

thnks for the info on everything. It has really opened my eye to Linux.
Im taking it that the computer language classes are some what difficult??
How was it when you took it?? And what classes did you take, because I am looking forwards to taking those classes, any ones you would reccommend for the first time user??
a b 5 Linux
June 30, 2006 2:37:52 PM

Quite honestly, difficulty of the classes is all relative to many factors. I would say that for now, learning online is the cheapest and best start. Literally, just pick a language (or languages), google something to the effect of "introduction to LANGUAGE programming", and work through examples and read some text.

For example, the first (non-commerial) result of searching "introduction to c programming" results in a fine page to start out with C. C is a bit trickier than most langauges as it is essentially tied very closely to the actual hardware in your computer. That aspect is both a blessing (much more flexible and versatile) and a curse (very very easy to write bad code even for experience programmers, tricky to get into). As such, perhaps look into python, java, and the like (since this isn't my primary area of focus, I'm afraid I am not up-to-date on the latest higher-level languages)

If you are in an academic environment, especially collegiate, then it is much easier to find personalized guidance to programming. I definately suggest some sort of overview of programming as an introductory course, as it will give a good idea of what's going on here. As far as what I got started with, I actually was taught a few old languages (Pascal and BASIC) by my father many many years ago. I then took a C course in late grade school and really enjoyed it, and when I went to college I tended to focus on low-level software courses for my elective courses (assembly, C, actual logical design or building a processor, etc.)

In any case, I would suggest first and foremost getting Linux up and running. Once you get there, start going through an online tutorial of a language of your choice, but I somewhat suggest Java, as it's a great language to learn on, plus it has many great tools to use once you start to learn the basics such as the Eclipse or Netbeans Integrated Development Environment (helps you figure out bugs and keep your code organized).
a b 5 Linux
June 30, 2006 9:12:27 PM

Quote:
Quite honestly, difficulty of the classes is all relative to many factors. I would say that for now, learning online is the cheapest and best start. Literally, just pick a language (or languages), google something to the effect of "introduction to LANGUAGE programming", and work through examples and read some text.

For example, the first (non-commerial) result of searching "introduction to c programming" results in a fine page to start out with C. C is a bit trickier than most langauges as it is essentially tied very closely to the actual hardware in your computer. That aspect is both a blessing (much more flexible and versatile) and a curse (very very easy to write bad code even for experience programmers, tricky to get into). As such, perhaps look into python, java, and the like (since this isn't my primary area of focus, I'm afraid I am not up-to-date on the latest higher-level languages)

If you are in an academic environment, especially collegiate, then it is much easier to find personalized guidance to programming. I definately suggest some sort of overview of programming as an introductory course, as it will give a good idea of what's going on here. As far as what I got started with, I actually was taught a few old languages (Pascal and BASIC) by my father many many years ago. I then took a C course in late grade school and really enjoyed it, and when I went to college I tended to focus on low-level software courses for my elective courses (assembly, C, actual logical design or building a processor, etc.)

In any case, I would suggest first and foremost getting Linux up and running. Once you get there, start going through an online tutorial of a language of your choice, but I somewhat suggest Java, as it's a great language to learn on, plus it has many great tools to use once you start to learn the basics such as the Eclipse or Netbeans Integrated Development Environment (helps you figure out bugs and keep your code organized).




:-D

[code:1:479534b92d]
#!/usr/bin/perl

print "hello world";

exit(0);

[/code:1:479534b92d]

[code:1:479534b92d]
#include <stdio.h>

int main(int argc, char**argv,char**envp)
{
printf("%s", "hello world");

return 0;
}

[/code:1:479534b92d]

[code:1:479534b92d]
#include <iostream>

using namespace std;

int main(int argc, char**argv, char**envp)
{

cout <<"hello world"<<endl;

return 0;
}

[/code:1:479534b92d]

[code:1:479534b92d]
#!/usr/bin/php

<?

echo("hello world");

?>

[/code:1:479534b92d]


[code:1:479534b92d]
#!/bin/sh

echo "hello world"
[/code:1:479534b92d]


If you decide to get some books I strongly recommend: http://www.oreilly.com/store/

The free documentation that comes with Linux is very good (although technical). You can google the rest.

:-D
a b 5 Linux
June 30, 2006 9:21:01 PM

Sorry to double post.

Just to clarify I had to remove the newlines from the hello world strings because the forumz yank slashes.

Oh ya I'm releasing the code under the GPL ;-)
July 12, 2006 5:22:44 PM

What are these codes??
I just found out that Nvidia is taking advantage of linux software and has created drivers for that platform. So can you now play games like COD2 on linux?? or what is the deal??
a b 5 Linux
July 12, 2006 5:35:36 PM

Quote:
What are these codes??
I just found out that Nvidia is taking advantage of linux software and has created drivers for that platform. So can you now play games like COD2 on linux?? or what is the deal??




Those are example programs in various languages.

nVidia has had Linux drivers for years.

With the nVidia accelerated drivers you can play certain games.

OpenGL games tend to run very well.

D3D games may not run at all.

:-D
!