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Still have hiccup with HL2 using x1950pro(default setting)

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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April 9, 2007 12:46:05 AM

I just changed from 6600GT to x1950pro and figured that the game runs good but with hiccup. I did use drivercleaner to clean my previous graphic card driver.

My system is AMD 64 3500+ sapphire x1950pro 256mb , 1GB DDR 400mhz.

This is the fraps log.

Frames: 3251 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 54.183 - Min: 25 - Max: 92
Frames: 3923 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 65.383 - Min: 38 - Max: 97

The graphic is set at recommended setting.
Resolution : 1680 x 1050
Everything is High except
Antialiasing Mode = None
Filtering Mode = Trilinear
Wait for vertical Sync = Disable
Water Detail = Reflect World.


If I set to Max configuration. I get this.

Frames: 2851 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 47.517 - Min: 37 - Max: 56
Frames: 2878 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 47.967 - Min: 30 - Max: 62

Is that normal? I thought x1950pro should be able to run HL2 without problem.


Note: I don't see much improvement(maybe a little?) from upgrading 6600GT to x1950pro. Now I wonder why I waste my money on it :/ 
April 9, 2007 1:36:02 AM

by any chance you have an audigy video card?
because its well know to cause studdering and weird bugs with AGP videocards.
April 9, 2007 1:50:39 AM

Quote:
Is that normal? I thought x1950pro should be able to run HL2 without problem.


No this isn't normal. I beat HL2 with all settings maxed, 4xFSAA and 16xAF. If I recall correctly, my framerates ranged from 80 - 180 FPS, depending on location.

What sort of PSU do you have?
Related resources
April 9, 2007 2:29:28 AM

Sounds about right to me, you are bottlenecked by your processor and you are running a high res of 1680x1050. With my rig i get around 45fps at that res.
April 9, 2007 4:08:45 AM

You are right, I use Audigy 2 ZS sound card. But My graphic card is PCI-E 16x

Are you sure I am effected by that?

My PSU has no problem.

FSP Group (Fortron Source) AX450-PN, 12cm FAN, version 2.2, 2 SATA, PCI Express, 450W Power Supply - Retail

Maximum 29A on Rail+v12

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E1681...

More than enough Power.

Anyone have PC about the same spec as me can run HL 2: Episod one and check the FPS using fraps?

Thanks!
April 9, 2007 4:42:16 AM

Follow up.

I removed the Sound card and tested HL2 without sound.

here's the result.

Frames: 4329 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 72.150 - Min: 52 - Max: 103
Frames: 4849 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 80.817 - Min: 60 - Max: 105
Frames: 4529 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 75.483 - Min: 51 - Max: 99
Frames: 4649 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 77.483 - Min: 8 - Max: 95

Something is very wrong with my Harddrive too.

When I hear big sound from my Hard drive(reading), it will have min fps as low as 0.

Is my hard drive broken? But it still working like charm.

I am going to test it with my onboard sound lateron. I hope it is not audigy's problem!
April 9, 2007 5:34:40 AM

Here's the result with the onboard soundcard.

Frames: 4206 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 70.100 - Min: 33 - Max: 101
Frames: 3759 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 62.650 - Min: 0 - Max: 97
Frames: 4469 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 74.483 - Min: 46 - Max: 103
Frames: 3419 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 56.983 - Min: 40 - Max: 101

I notice that when I see New people, or a person speak to me such as, "Here, take this medic" My fps will drop significantly(the harddrive read loud too).

I reinstall the Audigy 2 ZS again and get the FPS again.

Frames: 4651 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 77.517 - Min: 53 - Max: 105
Frames: 4380 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 73.000 - Min: 48 - Max: 101
Frames: 3838 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 63.967 - Min: 38 - Max: 104
Frames: 4031 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 67.183 - Min: 38 - Max: 103

From that, I can see that Audigy 2 ZS is not the problem. It have around the same fps as the onboard soundcard.

I just hate the hiccups >.>;

Anyone have the solution for this problem?
April 9, 2007 10:29:15 PM

Anyone?
April 10, 2007 1:43:18 AM

A fresh format.

You've just changed your video card, and to make it even worse, it's from another manufacturer (ATI/nVIDIA). Driver cleaning utilities are crap, IMO.
April 10, 2007 2:29:05 AM

I just formated the computer. Updating windows and driver at the moment :D 

Update:

I just tested HL2 without sound driver.

Frames: 4074 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 67.900 - Min: 41 - Max: 101
Frames: 4455 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 74.250 - Min: 0 - Max: 100
Frames: 4360 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 72.667 - Min: 49 - Max: 103
Frames: 4335 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 72.250 - Min: 38 - Max: 105
Frames: 4077 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 67.950 - Min: 45 - Max: 104

Seems like no improvement. The average FPS is good but it will drop to 0-45 when I see 2-5 people pop up in front of me especially when they talking to me.

I think it have something to do with my hard drive but I have no idea why :/ 
April 10, 2007 3:47:36 AM

Last FRAPS report.

I tried to play at all graphic = LOW and OFF for every setting.

Here's the fps.

Frames: 4298 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 71.633 - Min: 42 - Max: 135
Frames: 3916 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 65.267 - Min: 43 - Max: 163
Frames: 4064 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 67.733 - Min: 38 - Max: 155
Frames: 3932 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 65.533 - Min: 41 - Max: 134

The Average fps lower than HIGH setting? O_o;

Is it my graphic card is defective? Should I RMA it?
April 10, 2007 4:15:21 AM

You're not using VSync... aren't you? :?
a b U Graphics card
April 10, 2007 5:07:44 AM

Are you running the exact same sequence of events every time? If you arent then your results are invalid, and you cant draw any conclusions.
April 10, 2007 5:10:15 AM

VSync is off. is that the problem?
April 10, 2007 5:12:57 AM

About the same.

I done like 10 times and their average is about the same for each setting.

The thing I hate is the FPS will drop to 0 if I see 4 people at once and when one of them talk to me.
a b U Graphics card
April 10, 2007 5:26:18 AM

You do install sound card drivers dont you? It sounds like you dont:

"I just tested HL2 without sound driver. " (cant be bothered with a real quote)

Not just the windows ones, but the creative drivers. If the problem with the extreme drop in FPS happens when you use onboard sound or no sound then its not the ZS.
a b U Graphics card
April 10, 2007 5:57:59 AM

Try it with Vsync on. I think there are some problems with DX 9, fullscreen, and Vsinc off. It actually slows it down to turn it off.
a b U Graphics card
April 10, 2007 6:04:47 AM

Right... capping your framerate and making your video card wait to display the next frame is going to be faster than letting it pump out as many frames per second as possible.
April 10, 2007 5:49:09 PM

I just format my PC yesterday and didn't install the sound driver yet.

With sound, it will slowdown the performance so I tested HL2 without sound to see if a clean install will do any good.

In fact, the result is still the same before I format my computer.

If you read my previous messages, with onboard sound or ZS, the fps will drop about the same amounts so it is not the ZS problem.

I am thinking there is something wrong either with the graphic card or the hard disk regarding the fps dropping to 0-35.

Anyone have a similar PC spec as me? Is your maximum FPS around 90 and with average 60-75 fps on recommended setting at 1680x1050?
a b U Graphics card
April 10, 2007 6:48:04 PM

Quote:
Right... capping your framerate and making your video card wait to display the next frame is going to be faster than letting it pump out as many frames per second as possible.


Fantasy versus reality. Having been a DX programmer, I saw this issue come up on DX programming forums. I don't remember the specifics. It could be an issue with ATI cards.

All you can do is try it and see.
April 10, 2007 6:56:03 PM

If your hd is making a clicking/clacking sound back it up it's going...
April 10, 2007 7:31:46 PM

Quote:
It could be an issue with ATI cards.

as i know HL2 was made to run best on ATI cards...or not?
a b U Graphics card
April 11, 2007 2:06:55 AM

Quote:
Right... capping your framerate and making your video card wait to display the next frame is going to be faster than letting it pump out as many frames per second as possible.


Fantasy versus reality. Having been a DX programmer, I saw this issue come up on DX programming forums. I don't remember the specifics. It could be an issue with ATI cards.

All you can do is try it and see.
Well I dont care what you program, actually running a program with vsync on and seeing the slowdown is enough to convince me that its slower when its on. Its for that reason that I only have it on with older games or games that run well with my card. FEAR is one game in particular that drags your fps to the floor with vsync on, but runs nicely with it off.

EDIT: Of course, it could be dodgy programming that causes it to slow down heaps.
April 12, 2007 3:14:14 AM

Can someone tell me the average FPS is normal for my spec?
a b U Graphics card
April 12, 2007 3:18:52 AM

You did install the sound driver after the tests right? Coz without it, the card is just running off generic drivers.
April 12, 2007 7:27:16 AM

Yes. I have installed the sound driver. The average framerate will drop about 2-10. :) 
April 12, 2007 7:31:13 AM

I check on the VGA charts.

http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&m...

If put maximum setting.

The average frame rate for x1950pro will be 54.5 per second. Seems like x1950pro is not good enough for 1680 x 1050 resolution. Only x1900XT and better graphic cards are suitable to play at that solution.

Is that how we see the chart?

The maximum framerate will be 125.9 per second for Nvidia 8800GTX for HL2.
a b U Graphics card
April 12, 2007 7:42:43 AM

Remember that the pc they are using is most likely far more powerful than yours, so that would boost the framerate.

EDIT: I believe they use 2gb RAM and a c2d x6800 so that there is little bottleneck with most cards. You only have 1gb RAM and a single core A64 3500. Try OCing your cpu to lift your fps a little. It might not make much difference at that resolution tho.
April 12, 2007 7:51:05 AM

randomizer, do you have Half Life 2? Can you try running fraps and see the average fps?

yours is single core too, right? U have about the same spec as mine.

or, what else games do u have? we can compare a little bit.

What resolution can u run at?
a b U Graphics card
April 12, 2007 8:22:03 AM

Dont use fraps, coz we will be likely in different areas. Run the ingame performance test.

EDIT: Soz the ingame performance test is in CS:S, if you've got that, run it instead. They both use the source engine so should perform similarly.
a b U Graphics card
April 12, 2007 8:34:08 AM

Ok for the CS:S Video Stress Test I set most my video settings to max @1600x1200 resolution. I tweaked the below settings to more normally used levels tho.

4xAA, 16xAF, vsync off

I scored and average framerate of 119.32fps

EDIT: For the sake of accuracy I ran it again and got 119.83fps
April 12, 2007 9:38:46 AM

Too bad I don't have that >.>

I will try to see if my cousin have that.
a b U Graphics card
April 12, 2007 10:09:30 AM

Have you got HL2: Lost Coast? I just downloaded it, it apparently has a stress tester in it too. Try that. If you dont have it just download it off steam.
a b U Graphics card
April 12, 2007 10:20:27 AM

With the same settings (incl. full HDR) I got 67.83fps using the HL2: Lost Coast stress test.
April 20, 2007 6:30:25 PM

Wow! The new Catalyst 7.4 Driver almost make the stutter gone! Very little stutter in games now especially FEAR and STALKER.

Edit: I bought a new Seagate 320GB 7200.10 perpendicular reading technology drive but it doesn't fix the stutter problem. I thought it was my old harddisk that makes the games stutter, now I know graphic card will be the main problem :) 
April 20, 2007 6:47:05 PM

my spec below, need a better PSU. but n e ways.. i get a max of 180-260 fps running about on CSS and about a 70 min with lots of action on the screen... if it helps also i get around 450 fps on cod2 lookin up and avg of 150ish
April 20, 2007 7:20:31 PM

I haven't try older games yet. Lazy to install them. hehe.

Thanks for the input :D 
April 20, 2007 8:29:03 PM

Quote:
I check on the VGA charts.

http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&m...

If put maximum setting.

The average frame rate for x1950pro will be 54.5 per second. Seems like x1950pro is not good enough for 1680 x 1050 resolution. Only x1900XT and better graphic cards are suitable to play at that solution.

Is that how we see the chart?

The maximum framerate will be 125.9 per second for Nvidia 8800GTX for HL2.


I beg to differ my friend, with the system listed in my sig, I acheived ~70ish FPS in Lost Coast with everything @ max including HDR, using Catalyst 7.3 and 1680x1050 resolution in the included benchmark.
April 20, 2007 10:03:17 PM

how about anti aliasing and the filtering mode.

Are u sure u get 70 all the time??

My average is about 65 for Trilinear for filtering and no anti aliasing. I use Fraps 60sec test
a b U Graphics card
April 21, 2007 12:45:41 AM

I get 67.83fps average for lost coast. 16x12, 4xAA 16xAF, full HDR, no vsync.

I only have a 3700 and 1gb RAM, thats why my average is lower. I usually have AA off in lost coast coz it lags a bit when looking out over the water with HDR on. Shame you finish it in like 5-10 mins, it looks so nice.
April 21, 2007 1:15:24 AM

I just install lost coast with no Anti aliasing and trilinear for filtering and I got 124.32fps.

In game FPS is really different than the stress test(Especially when in games there is alot of people pop up at the same time in Episode One).
a b U Graphics card
April 21, 2007 1:18:21 AM

They cant test everything in the stress test, so its going to be different. It just gives you an idea, and something to compare with others.
April 21, 2007 1:22:33 AM

I got an average of 75.44 for lost cost, 16x12, 4xAA 16,AF, Full HDR, reflect All and no vysnc.

I guess my system is alright.
Have you try Catalyst 7.4? It seems pretty good. Games no longer stutter. :)  Very little stutter now :) 
April 21, 2007 1:30:21 AM

Quote:
You're not using VSync... aren't you? :?

I think he has the max fps option to his monitor frecuency ( and Isuspect its 65-70hz?)

he should bring the console and change the max fps
a b U Graphics card
April 21, 2007 3:16:04 AM

I used cat 7.3 for the test. Will try it again with 7.4
April 21, 2007 4:18:42 AM

Quote:
Something is very wrong with my Harddrive too.

When I hear big sound from my Hard drive(reading), it will have min fps as low as 0.

Sounds like you might not have enough RAM or that your Page File is set too low. That could be Windows trying to increase the page file size on the fly while still accessing it, plus trying to load game graphics.
I had a problem with stuttering in FEAR on an earlier revision of my rig. For some reason the page file wound up as like 1MB over my 1GB of main RAM and whenever FEAR got past a certain point Windows would try to increase the size of the pagefile causing the HD to access like crazy and causing the game to stutter.

-mcg
April 21, 2007 6:43:58 AM

I have mentioned the problem fix with the new Catalyst 7.4 driver :) 

Here's the previous post

Quote:
Wow! The new Catalyst 7.4 Driver almost make the stutter gone! Very little stutter in games now especially FEAR and STALKER.

Edit: I bought a new Seagate 320GB 7200.10 perpendicular reading technology drive but it doesn't fix the stutter problem. I thought it was my old harddisk that makes the games stutter, now I know graphic card will be the main problem Smile
!