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FirePlug's da bomb! Can he stay that way? (Post 30, INV/SS)

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February 22, 2005 12:58:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

It was this group that helped me out at level 16, when I needed to start
specializing, and planning my powers better. It was this group, and the COH
boards that helped me during the INV nerf, and although I didn't like all
the compromises I had to make, I eventually accepted them as necessary, and
I ended up more powerful than I had been before the changes.



I'm level 30 now, and loving what FirePlug has become. He can go face to
face with a +9 minion, and only know that he's outclassed because he can't
harm the enemy. +5 groups heavy with bosses and Lt.'s can only take him
down gradually, and nothing in a standard city zone seems to be able to kill
him fast enough that he can't recognize what's happening, and hop away.



It's coming up on final build time though. I have 10 standard levels left,
and then the post 40 ones. I'm a casual player, so I doubt the post 40
levels will go very fast, I want to get a pretty decent build in place
before I get there. I was hoping you folks would help me plan it out.



Here's what I have planned:





Level Power Slotting

1 Resist Physical Damage 6

1 Jab 4

2 Dull Pain 1

4 Taunt 1

6 Resist Elements 6

8 Unyielding 6

10 Combat Jumping 1

12 Boxing 4

14 Resist Energies 4

16 Super Jump 1

18 Invincible 6

20 Swift 1

22 Heal 1

24 Tough 1

26 Stamina 5

28 Knockout Blow 6

30 Weave 6

32 Haymaker 3

35 Tough Skin 1

38 Foot Stomp 5



You'll notice this is a very heavily defensive build. That is the plan. I
want to be a group tank first, with enough offense to make it POSSIBLE to
solo, if a bit slow. I also don't plan on taking either Rage or
Unstoppable, since I see the price for these to be so draconian, that I
think other powers would be more useful.



Post 40 plans would be to take one or two of the EPP's, the rest utility
powers that don't need to be slotted, and finish slotting FootStomp,
ToughSkin, Haymaker, and Resist Energies (12 slots) as well as I can.



Care to tell me how wrong I am?



FirePlug
Anonymous
February 22, 2005 6:44:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

"Ingot" <cleahy@spamstinks.iglou.com> wrote:
> I also don't plan on taking either Rage or Unstoppable, since I see the
> price for these to be so draconian...

*Sigh*. It would be sooo nice to start a project of describing the powers
accurately, from a player perspective, instead of relying on everyone
copying the way-out-of-date and half-wrong-anyway Beta stuff.

Rage has no high price any more. When it drops, it takes about 20% of
your End (instead of nearly all of it, as before), and you have no
attacks for about 10 seconds. With one recharge, it is ready to
reactivate as soon as it drops.

I had some trouble with it in the prior Issue, where the drop would take
all your End and drop some of your toggles. But it's been a wonderful
addition since the change, and wasn't bad even before. About a 60% damage
boost across the board with 4 ToHits, 1 Recharge and 1 IForget. :p 
(Sorry, I've been messing with my slotting and can't recall exactly
what's in there. Wouldn't be without it, though.)

--
-= Victory Server =-
-= Shenanigunner: Level 38 Natural Tanker, Fire/SS, M =-
-= Sgt Glory B: Level 16 Tech Blaster, Electric/Energy, F =-
-= Mean Mr Mustard: Level 8 Science Scrapper, Dark/Regen, M =-
-= See you on HEROICA! - http://www.dgath.com/coh/ =-
-= The Keybind & Macro Guide is now available! =-
February 22, 2005 6:44:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

"Shenanigunner" <shenanigunner@NOdgathSPAM.kom> wrote

> *Sigh*. It would be sooo nice to start a project of describing the powers
> accurately, from a player perspective, instead of relying on everyone
> copying the way-out-of-date and half-wrong-anyway Beta stuff.
>
> Rage has no high price any more. When it drops, it takes about 20% of
> your End (instead of nearly all of it, as before), and you have no
> attacks for about 10 seconds. With one recharge, it is ready to
> reactivate as soon as it drops.
<snip>

Actually, I've been following with some interest the Rage debates, and I
knew that it had had it's penalty toned down by quite a bit.

My problem is that I am VERY shy of enhancements for the build I want, and I
haven't been able to get any feedback on the minimum acceptable enhancement
slotting for Rage.

I can easily fit rage in, but those five slots...

Well lets see... My current plan has me using 12 slots post 40 to fill out
my build. (there will be priority changes... For instance, I believe I'm
going to push REner and REnv up to "max out very soon"). 18 ENH slots are
earned from 40 - 50, so this would mean five to completely fill one post 40
power, 12 to fill in the rest of my build, and one to play with.

Adding Rage would mean a lot of enhancement slots taken that I really don't
have...

However, with the advice of the first two replies I've seen, it appears that
Haymaker really isn't as necessary as I thought. If I replace Haymaker with
Rage, then Rage can also inherit the three slots I had planned from
Haymaker. Add in the one I have laying around for emergencies, and I could
get it 4 slotted at the least. Maybe more if I can find some fat somewhere
else.

That sounds good to me... I think I'll plan on taking Rage instead of
Haymaker...

FirePlug
Anonymous
February 22, 2005 7:01:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

In article <421b488b_1@news.iglou.com>, Ingot wrote:
> It was this group that helped me out at level 16, when I needed
> to start specializing, and planning my powers better. It was
> this group, and the COH boards that helped me during the INV
> nerf, and although I didn't like all the compromises I had to
> make, I eventually accepted them as necessary, and I ended up
> more powerful than I had been before the changes.
>
> I'm level 30 now, and loving what FirePlug has become. He can
> go face to face with a +9 minion, and only know that he's
> outclassed because he can't harm the enemy. +5 groups heavy
> with bosses and Lt.'s can only take him down gradually, and
> nothing in a standard city zone seems to be able to kill him
> fast enough that he can't recognize what's happening, and hop
> away.
>
> It's coming up on final build time though. I have 10 standard
> levels left, and then the post 40 ones. I'm a casual player,
> so I doubt the post 40 levels will go very fast, I want to get
> a pretty decent build in place before I get there. I was
> hoping you folks would help me plan it out.

Most of my comments are aimed at a possible respec, which I don't
know if you're even considering. There's no real problems with
your build, after all.

> Here's what I have planned:
>
> Level Power Slotting
>
> 1 Resist Physical Damage 6
>
> 1 Jab 4

Jab is actually the best single-target attack in the SS arsenal.
You might consider stealing some slots from another one of your
attacks and putting them here.

Punch is also good.

Both have better damage and efficiency than Haymaker.

> 2 Dull Pain 1
>
> 4 Taunt 1
>
> 6 Resist Elements 6
>
> 8 Unyielding 6
>
> 10 Combat Jumping 1
>
> 12 Boxing 4
>
> 14 Resist Energies 4
>
> 16 Super Jump 1
>
> 18 Invincible 6
>
> 20 Swift 1
>
> 22 Heal 1
>
> 24 Tough 1
>
> 26 Stamina 5
>
> 28 Knockout Blow 6

Do you like Knockout Blow? Do you use it for the disorient or
damage?

> 30 Weave 6

I believe you should 6-slot Resist Energies before Weave, but
either way is fine.

> 32 Haymaker 3
>
> 35 Tough Skin 1
>
> 38 Foot Stomp 5

I can't believe how long SS waits for a decent area attack.

I think you will find your offense improved, without spending any
more resources than you already have, by dumping Haymaker in
favor of Punch, and 6-slotting both Jab and Punch, with the
leftover slots going in Knockout Blow and Foot Stomp. Jab and
Punch are the backbone of your secondary.

Boxing is really expendable after that; you shouldn't need it to
attack almost non-stop. That would free up those three slots for
either a bit more offense or slighly more defense.

> You'll notice this is a very heavily defensive build. That is
> the plan. I want to be a group tank first, with enough offense
> to make it POSSIBLE to solo, if a bit slow. I also don't plan
> on taking either Rage or Unstoppable, since I see the price for
> these to be so draconian, that I think other powers would be
> more useful.

You are definitely a brick. Great defense.

> Post 40 plans would be to take one or two of the EPP's, the
> rest utility powers that don't need to be slotted, and finish
> slotting FootStomp, ToughSkin, Haymaker, and Resist Energies
> (12 slots) as well as I can.

The only "Holy Grail" ancillary power I know of is Conserve
Power. The rest are barely good enough to be flavorful.

> Care to tell me how wrong I am?

Never! I like to make suggestions, though.

--
Neil Cerutti
February 22, 2005 7:02:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

"Neil Cerutti" <neil.cerutti@tds.net> wrote

> Most of my comments are aimed at a possible respec, which I don't
> know if you're even considering. There's no real problems with
> your build, after all.

Yeah, I'm pretty proud of it actually, but I KNOW things are coming my way
that I don't know about. It's always nice to get input from people that
have already been there!

> Jab is actually the best single-target attack in the SS arsenal.
> You might consider stealing some slots from another one of your
> attacks and putting them here.
>
> Punch is also good.

Unfortunately, I gave up Punch for Boxing to open the way to Weave. The
only respec I've used so far is the free one post I3, so I may take your
advice eventually. I could leave boxing unenhanced, add punch, and then
slot it up at least to 4. At this point however, my enhancements are tight,
and I do want to slot up defense the heaviest.

I may decide that having both Weave AND Tough Skin six slotted is overkill,
and give up some of them to finish slotting on Jab and Punch. That's the
reason for this message, to see what folks have to say about things like
this.

> Do you like Knockout Blow? Do you use it for the disorient or
> damage?

I love KB, and use it mostly for damage, although the disorient is great to
get foes to drop shields, etc.

I don't use it as mainstream damage though. My primary use is for the quick
massive damage that occasionally help a fight's efficiency. For instance,
on Freakshow, I can knock them down to 1/3rd, and then get in a reserved KB.
This with a quick follow-up Jab and/or Boxing will normally take them
completely down before they can fire off "Dull Pain".

On bosses, its use is very mainstream. Many of them would take me a very
long time to take down otherwise.

> I believe you should 6-slot Resist Energies before Weave, but
> either way is fine.

Noted. I'll probably follow your advice on this one.

> I think you will find your offense improved, without spending any
> more resources than you already have, by dumping Haymaker in
> favor of Punch, and 6-slotting both Jab and Punch, with the
> leftover slots going in Knockout Blow and Foot Stomp. Jab and
> Punch are the backbone of your secondary.
>
> Boxing is really expendable after that; you shouldn't need it to
> attack almost non-stop. That would free up those three slots for
> either a bit more offense or slighly more defense.

Your advice about Haymaker is exactly what I was looking for. I had been
wondering if it was worth it.

It looks to me as if I could drop Haymaker for Rage, and use its slots in
the same place. Eventually, I could do a respec, and add in Punch as well,
re-assigning boxing's three to it, and the other post 40 haymaker enh's
among Rage and Punch as seems appropriate.

> You are definitely a brick. Great defense.

Thanks!

> The only "Holy Grail" ancillary power I know of is Conserve
> Power. The rest are barely good enough to be flavorful.

This is good to know ahead of time! From what I saw of the post 40 pool,
there was a quite a bit that looked like a little fun, but not much to make
a big difference. I decided to plan on six slotting ONE of them (good to
know that Conserve Power will be the one!), and use the rest of those
enhancements to really squeeze the best out of my base build.

One question though... Do you think I'll really need a six slotted Conserve
Power? I should have Stamina six slotted by then, and I don't see where I
have many heavy endurance powers... I plan to fill in the other post 40
powers with fluff items, or powers that are of nice utility when single
slotted (like Teleport Teammate).

> Never! I like to make suggestions, though.

And thank you for that!

FirePlug
Anonymous
February 22, 2005 9:52:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

"Ingot" <cleahy@spamstinks.iglou.com> wrote:
> However, with the advice of the first two replies I've seen, it
> appears that Haymaker really isn't as necessary as I thought. If I
> replace Haymaker with Rage, then Rage can also inherit the three slots
> I had planned from Haymaker. Add in the one I have laying around for
> emergencies, and I could get it 4 slotted at the least. Maybe more if
> I can find some fat somewhere else.

Hmm. I'm not entirely sure dropping Haymaker for Rage is a good idea. A
60% boost to the two lesser punches doesn't really add much to your
damage capability - Jab is only good as a continuing taunt/attack
blocker, not much as a damage-dealer. Punch is okay, but I still need
that lesser punch to keep up a continuous attack. Haymaker deals about
1/3 of the damage I do to each foe; Knockout Blow does at least 50% on
most.

However, even with two recharges, KB is somewhat slower to recycle than
Haymaker. If you are going to be a damage-dealer, I think you need both.
Consider dropping Punch if you can respec around it - keep Jab as a fast-
recycling attention-getter (I also don't think you can skip it).

Haymaker+Knockout Blow+Rage is an indispensable combination for an SS
damage dealer, IMHO. Invuln might change that a little. Rage is powerful
and useful even with one or two ToHits and a Recharge.

--
-= Victory Server =-
-= Shenanigunner: Level 38 Natural Tanker, Fire/SS, M =-
-= Sgt Glory B: Level 16 Tech Blaster, Electric/Energy, F =-
-= Mean Mr Mustard: Level 8 Science Scrapper, Dark/Regen, M =-
-= See you on HEROICA! - http://www.dgath.com/coh/ =-
-= The Keybind & Macro Guide is now available! =-
Anonymous
February 22, 2005 10:44:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Neil Cerutti <neil.cerutti@tds.net> wrote:
> I think you will find your offense improved, without spending any
> more resources than you already have, by dumping Haymaker in
> favor of Punch, and 6-slotting both Jab and Punch, with the
> leftover slots going in Knockout Blow and Foot Stomp. Jab and
> Punch are the backbone of your secondary.

I absolutely can't see why your thinking runs this way. Love to see your
justifications.

Jab and Punch hardly do any damage at all to higher-level foes. Jab is
nearly useless except to fill out the array of attacks and keep up the
taunt/attack deflection. Punch does enough damage to keep in the lineup,
but only about half as much as Haymaker.

My slotting (from memory) is:

Jab: Acc Dmg Dmg
Punch: Acc Dmg Dmg Dmg
Haymaker: Acc Dmg Dmg Dmg Dmg
KOB: Acc Dmg Dmg Dmg Dmg Rchg

With that, I miss very infrequently, even on +3-4 targets, and in general
each attack does 2X the damage of the prior one - about 35/70/150/300 vs
an orange minion. The Recharge in KOB makes it come back just slightly
slower than the other three with 6-slot Hasten.

I'd drop Punch long before I'd drop Haymaker. I am heavily loaded for
damage-dealing and soloing, and have to carry perhaps more damage
capacity to make up for not having the Invuln power set, but... your
suggestions just don't match my experience.

--
-= Victory Server =-
-= Shenanigunner: Level 38 Natural Tanker, Fire/SS, M =-
-= Sgt Glory B: Level 16 Tech Blaster, Electric/Energy, F =-
-= Mean Mr Mustard: Level 8 Science Scrapper, Dark/Regen, M =-
-= See you on HEROICA! - http://www.dgath.com/coh/ =-
-= The Keybind & Macro Guide is now available! =-
Anonymous
February 22, 2005 11:28:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

In article <Xns96056E3D53DC6nitropressatnitrosyn@216.168.3.44>, Shenanigunner wrote:
> "Ingot" <cleahy@spamstinks.iglou.com> wrote:
>> However, with the advice of the first two replies I've seen, it
>> appears that Haymaker really isn't as necessary as I thought. If I
>> replace Haymaker with Rage, then Rage can also inherit the three slots
>> I had planned from Haymaker. Add in the one I have laying around for
>> emergencies, and I could get it 4 slotted at the least. Maybe more if
>> I can find some fat somewhere else.
>
> Hmm. I'm not entirely sure dropping Haymaker for Rage is a good idea. A
> 60% boost to the two lesser punches doesn't really add much to your
> damage capability - Jab is only good as a continuing taunt/attack
> blocker, not much as a damage-dealer.

The smaller numbers may be fooling you. Theoretically, Jab and
Punch are the most damaging Super Strength attacks over time.

I haven't used HeroStats to confirm this, though, and my
Fiery/Super Strength Tanker, Hindenberg, is long deleted.

Here's the theoretical stuff:

JAB
1.1 Activation
2.0 Recharge
5.1 Cost
0.68 Damage
0.219 D/s
0.133 D/e

PUNCH
1.2 Activation
4.0 Recharge
7.5 Cost
1 Damage
0.192 D/s
0.133 D/e

HAYMAKER
1.5 Activation
8.0 Recharge
12.3 Cost
1.64 Damage
0.173 D/s
0.133 D/e

KNOCKOUT BLOW
2.2 Activation
25.0 Recharge
18.8 Cost
3.56 Damage
0.131 D/s
0.189 D/e

HURL
3.8 Activation
8.0 Recharge
13.5 Cost
### Damage (the Brawl Index is still incomplete)
### D/s
### D/e

FOOT STOMP
2.1 Activation
20.0 Recharge
26.7 Cost
1.42 Damage
0.064 D/s
0.053 D/e

> However, even with two recharges, KB is somewhat slower to
> recycle than Haymaker. If you are going to be a damage-dealer,
> I think you need both. Consider dropping Punch if you can
> respec around it - keep Jab as a fast- recycling
> attention-getter (I also don't think you can skip it).

Yes, you can't skip it.

> Haymaker+Knockout Blow+Rage is an indispensable combination for
> an SS damage dealer, IMHO. Invuln might change that a little.
> Rage is powerful and useful even with one or two ToHits and a
> Recharge.

According to the stats, Punch+Jab should beat Haymaker+Knockout
Blow in a rout. If I had free time, it would be fun to test the
theory with HeroStats. I certainly don't like it when Spectral
Warriors are using the combo *against* me. ;) 

--
Neil Cerutti
Anonymous
February 22, 2005 11:28:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

In article <Xns96057729ECE0Fnitropressatnitrosyn@216.168.3.44>, Shenanigunner wrote:
> Neil Cerutti <neil.cerutti@tds.net> wrote:
>> I think you will find your offense improved, without spending any
>> more resources than you already have, by dumping Haymaker in
>> favor of Punch, and 6-slotting both Jab and Punch, with the
>> leftover slots going in Knockout Blow and Foot Stomp. Jab and
>> Punch are the backbone of your secondary.
>
> I absolutely can't see why your thinking runs this way. Love to see your
> justifications.
>
> Jab and Punch hardly do any damage at all to higher-level foes.
> Jab is nearly useless except to fill out the array of attacks
> and keep up the taunt/attack deflection. Punch does enough
> damage to keep in the lineup, but only about half as much as
> Haymaker.
>
> My slotting (from memory) is:
>
> Jab: Acc Dmg Dmg
> Punch: Acc Dmg Dmg Dmg
> Haymaker: Acc Dmg Dmg Dmg Dmg
> KOB: Acc Dmg Dmg Dmg Dmg Rchg

See my other post for the method behind my madness, and also note
that I concede I don't have actual personal experience with they
higher level SS powers.

> With that, I miss very infrequently, even on +3-4 targets, and
> in general each attack does 2X the damage of the prior one -
> about 35/70/150/300 vs an orange minion. The Recharge in KOB
> makes it come back just slightly slower than the other three
> with 6-slot Hasten.

Here's the theoretical numbers with Hasten:

Jab 0.30 D/s
Punch 0.28 D/s
Haymaker 0.26 D/s
Knockout Blow 0.21 D/s
Foot Stomp 0.10 D/s

(Foot Stomp is really a strong PBAoE for a Tanker. And it should
be.)

> I'd drop Punch long before I'd drop Haymaker. I am heavily
> loaded for damage-dealing and soloing, and have to carry
> perhaps more damage capacity to make up for not having the
> Invuln power set, but... your suggestions just don't match my
> experience.

Your favored attacks are more heavily slotted, which may account
for your experience. Plus, the front-loaded damage has good
tactical uses, which you outlined.

My Fiery/Fiery Tanker, for instance, uses Scorch exclusively as
his single target attack, and I can't prevent villains from
activating their last-ditch powers (like Phase Shift) because it
does too little per whack. Burn has considerably improved the
situation, though. :D 

--
Neil Cerutti
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 12:13:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Neil Cerutti <neil.cerutti@tds.net> wrote:
> According to the stats, Punch+Jab should beat Haymaker+Knockout
> Blow in a rout. If I had free time, it would be fun to test the
> theory with HeroStats.

Huh. This absolutely doesn't match my experience - I go in with KOB
recharged, get in a shot that will do anything from one-shot orange
minions with high susceptibility to Smashing to take a good third off of
an orange Boss, follow with the other three punches, and get in a second
KOB for the kill on all but the toughest, smash-resistant foes. I don't
bother with anything less than yellow lts unless I have to; most of my
foes are +3/4 Minions and Lts and +2/3 Bosses.

Haymaker recharges about as fast as Punch and does twice the damage. KOB
recharges about half as fast as Punch and does 4X the damage.

This is, of course, with perma-Hasten.

I need to run some numbers, but I just can't see that heavily slotting
the two light punches comes anywhere near loading the heavier attacks.

--
-= Victory Server =-
-= Shenanigunner: Level 38 Natural Tanker, Fire/SS, M =-
-= Sgt Glory B: Level 16 Tech Blaster, Electric/Energy, F =-
-= Mean Mr Mustard: Level 8 Science Scrapper, Dark/Regen, M =-
-= See you on HEROICA! - http://www.dgath.com/coh/ =-
-= The Keybind & Macro Guide is now available! =-
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 2:03:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Shenanigunner <shenanigunner@NOdgathSPAM.kom> wrote:
> I need to run some numbers, but I just can't see that heavily slotting
> the two light punches comes anywhere near loading the heavier attacks.

'Kay, numbers run (in Excel...)

Interesting.

Perma-Hasten assumed. First numbers are D/s; second numbers are D/s with
Rage adding about 55% damage across the board.

Yep, the raw numbers on the powers 6-slotted for damage come out decent:

Jab 1.57 2.43
Punch 1.46 2.26
HM 1.36 2.10
KOB 1.07 1.67

However, that doesn't factor in two things: Accuracy, for which you
really need to slot at least one per power. I think missing costs more
than the simple numeric calcs show; one extra hit from a Boss, that might
have been prevented by a hit, could cost the fight. So 5-slotted:

Jab 1.18 1.83
Punch 1.10 1.70
HM 1.02 1.58
KOB 0.80 1.25

But what this really doesn't factor in is the combined 1-2-3-4 punch. I'm
not quite sure how to figure it, but having and at least modestly
slotting all four powers gives you far more D/s than heavily slotting two
or three powers - You essentially only have the activation delays timing
each round, with recharge becoming irrelevant. If you only have 3
punches, there are going to be bigger gaps in your attack.

It also doesn't account for the disorient/knockdown capabilities of both
HM and KB, which neither of the lesser punches have. The reduction in
damage from a knocked-down foe adds up. A lot, when you're talking about
a hard-hitting boss.

The value of slotting the lower punches is evident, though, and I think
I'll look at spreading 3 more Dmg slots among the lower punches.

I'd still be cautious about not taking HM, KOB and Rage in an SS build,
numbers be damned.

--
-= Victory Server =-
-= Shenanigunner: Level 38 Natural Tanker, Fire/SS, M =-
-= Sgt Glory B: Level 16 Tech Blaster, Electric/Energy, F =-
-= Mean Mr Mustard: Level 8 Science Scrapper, Dark/Regen, M =-
-= See you on HEROICA! - http://www.dgath.com/coh/ =-
-= The Keybind & Macro Guide is now available! =-
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 2:07:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Shenanigunner <shenanigunner@NOdgathSPAM.kom> wrote:
> I'd still be cautious about not taking HM, KOB and Rage in an SS
> build, numbers be damned.

....especially if you're going to be sparing with their slotting, in favor
of boosting Invuln powers. I only have 2-3 slots each in my fire powers, so
I have slots to spare for the damage-dealing stuff.

--
-= Victory Server =-
-= Shenanigunner: Level 38 Natural Tanker, Fire/SS, M =-
-= Sgt Glory B: Level 16 Tech Blaster, Electric/Energy, F =-
-= Mean Mr Mustard: Level 8 Science Scrapper, Dark/Regen, M =-
-= See you on HEROICA! - http://www.dgath.com/coh/ =-
-= The Keybind & Macro Guide is now available! =-
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 4:28:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

In article <Xns960598C1FB4DAnitropressatnitrosyn@216.168.3.44>, Shenanigunner wrote:
> Shenanigunner <shenanigunner@NOdgathSPAM.kom> wrote:
>> I need to run some numbers, but I just can't see that heavily slotting
>> the two light punches comes anywhere near loading the heavier attacks.
>
> 'Kay, numbers run (in Excel...)
>
> Interesting.
>
> Perma-Hasten assumed. First numbers are D/s; second numbers are
> D/s with Rage adding about 55% damage across the board.
>
> Yep, the raw numbers on the powers 6-slotted for damage come out decent:
>
> Jab 1.57 2.43
> Punch 1.46 2.26
> HM 1.36 2.10
> KOB 1.07 1.67
>
> However, that doesn't factor in two things: Accuracy, for which
> you really need to slot at least one per power. I think missing
> costs more than the simple numeric calcs show; one extra hit
> from a Boss, that might have been prevented by a hit, could
> cost the fight. So 5-slotted:

Accuracy should equally impact every power, except for those with
an accuracy bonus.

> Jab 1.18 1.83
> Punch 1.10 1.70
> HM 1.02 1.58
> KOB 0.80 1.25
>
> But what this really doesn't factor in is the combined 1-2-3-4
> punch.

This is the main thing you give up by going with the higher D/s
combo of Jab/Punch. No real Alphastrike.

> I'm not quite sure how to figure it, but having and at least
> modestly slotting all four powers gives you far more D/s than
> heavily slotting two or three powers - You essentially only
> have the activation delays timing each round, with recharge
> becoming irrelevant. If you only have 3 punches, there are
> going to be bigger gaps in your attack.

Yeah. Once attack chains enter the picture, it clouds things up.

Moreover, the only way to actually *realize* the D/s advantage of
a fast attack like Jab is to put it on autoattack. You'd drive
yourself crazy clicking it manually. An autoattack has built-in
drawbacks.

The chain of slower attacks may well be what you want for a more
relaxed playstyle, and you really won't do all that much less
damage, only taking a 13% or so hit.

> It also doesn't account for the disorient/knockdown
> capabilities of both HM and KB, which neither of the lesser
> punches have. The reduction in damage from a knocked-down foe
> adds up. A lot, when you're talking about a hard-hitting boss.

Is the Haymaker disorient automatic?

Mace gets screwed this way too, with only one reliable disorient
attack, it's really not terribly good against bosses.

> The value of slotting the lower punches is evident, though, and
> I think I'll look at spreading 3 more Dmg slots among the lower
> punches.
>
> I'd still be cautious about not taking HM, KOB and Rage in an
> SS build, numbers be damned.

I agree with that. Two attacks is not enough.

--
Neil Cerutti
February 23, 2005 4:28:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

"Neil Cerutti" <neil.cerutti@tds.net> wrote in message
news:383en1F5htl7vU2@individual.net...
> In article <Xns960598C1FB4DAnitropressatnitrosyn@216.168.3.44>,
Shenanigunner wrote:

> > I'd still be cautious about not taking HM, KOB and Rage in an
> > SS build, numbers be damned.

> I agree with that. Two attacks is not enough.

Well, this leaves me in a bit of a fix.

I would have to drop a defensive power to take both Rage and Haymaker.

I COULD take one of them post 40, but even then, coming up with the
enhancements to properly slot them would be difficult.

Remember that this tank is a defensive one, soloing is something I want to
be ABLE to do, but not necessarily do well.

Hmm. Okay if you look at the original "up to level 40" plan, it has the
following items I would like to add to it post 40:

Conserve Power
Rage

and the following Enhancements

Jab +2
Boxing +2 (Yeah, don't worry. I could respec this to punch)
REner +2
Stamina +1
Haymaker +3
Tough Skin +5
Footstomp +1
Rage +5
Conserve Power +5

This would Six Slot all of these.

But of course, I CAN'T do all of that. Post 40 you only get 18
enhancements. The bill for the above is 26. I have to trim out 8 either
from my original build, or from these "wishlist" items.

The passive defenses are pretty important to me, by character concept...
Footstomp is one of my holy grails, I'm REALLY looking forward to being able
to knock everyone around me on his/her butt. That leaves the following jab,
boxing, stamina, Haymaker, Rage, and Conserve Power.

I don't know what my stamina problems will be but I could just pull conserve
power to 3, and leave stamina at 5, saving 3. Of the rest, I could settle
for five slotting instead of six, leaving me with:

Jab +1 (5)
Boxing +1 (5)
REner +2
Stamina 0 (5)
Haymaker +2 (5)
Tough Skin +5 (6)
Footstomp +1 (6)
Rage +4 (5)
Conserve Power +2 (3)

That would be 18 slots exactly. This leaves me with pretty much the same
pre-40 build I posted (although I may tinker with it a bit), and the above
as a post 40 schedule would ALMOST fill in things to the level you two are
recommending.

What do you think?

FirePlug
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 7:41:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Neil Cerutti <neil.cerutti@tds.net> wrote:
> Moreover, the only way to actually *realize* the D/s advantage of
> a fast attack like Jab is to put it on autoattack. You'd drive
> yourself crazy clicking it manually. An autoattack has built-in
> drawbacks.

I can key 1-2-3-4 (the punches in ascending order) with a shift to 5 for a
slower attack (has varied, is now Foot Stomp) almost brainlessly while
managing other things. I haven't found Auto useful for attacks - gets hung
up and fails to fire at the wrong times. I'd rather keep Auto on Hasten.

(I also made the mistake of putting one of my Blaster's strikes on Auto...
and every fraggin' time I conned a foe just to see his status, she'd fire.
Great when it was a purple Lt or Boss. Even greater when it was someone
else's foe. :p )

--
-= Victory Server =-
-= Shenanigunner: Level 38 Natural Tanker, Fire/SS, M =-
-= Sgt Glory B: Level 16 Tech Blaster, Electric/Energy, F =-
-= Mean Mr Mustard: Level 8 Science Scrapper, Dark/Regen, M =-
-= See you on HEROICA! - http://www.dgath.com/coh/ =-
-= The Keybind & Macro Guide is now available! =-
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 7:44:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

"Ingot" <cleahy@spamstinks.iglou.com> wrote:
>>> I'd still be cautious about not taking HM, KOB and Rage in an
>>> SS build, numbers be damned.

>> I agree with that. Two attacks is not enough.

> Well, this leaves me in a bit of a fix.
>
> I would have to drop a defensive power to take both Rage and Haymaker.

Drop Taunt. It's pretty useless since it became more like Provoke.

You also don't have Hasten in there - I'd take the combination of Hasten
and Super Speed over Swift and Taunt.

--
-= Victory Server =-
-= Shenanigunner: Level 38 Natural Tanker, Fire/SS, M =-
-= Sgt Glory B: Level 16 Tech Blaster, Electric/Energy, F =-
-= Mean Mr Mustard: Level 8 Science Scrapper, Dark/Regen, M =-
-= See you on HEROICA! - http://www.dgath.com/coh/ =-
-= The Keybind & Macro Guide is now available! =-
!