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April 14, 2007 10:48:55 AM

Is their any benefit of getting a cedar mill over a 90nm version,In both celeronD and Pentiums?

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April 14, 2007 10:53:07 AM

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Is their any benefit of getting a cedar mill over a 90nm version,In both celeronD and Pentiums?
First off....a warning...everyone here will talk you out of getting a Cel D/Pentium 4. Yes, there are some advantages. The big deal,is that it's built on Intel's 65nm process. This in turn, lets the CPU run cooler,use less power, and overclock to quite a bit higher clocks. :) 
April 14, 2007 11:01:09 AM

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cedar was the first 65nm netburst wasnt it ? Oct 05 release? And it was far better than its prior gen for heat .still any athlon at the same clocks can beat it.
Yep....not sure on the release date though....sometime around what you wrote. :)  Yep about the athlon's too. :wink:
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April 14, 2007 11:09:10 AM

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but if hes buying, the new c2d and single cores are coming out all of which are great for speed. and the prices will be ripe very soon.
Yeah, some of us :oops:  :oops:  are really tight for cashola...but it is getting to the point were you're better off to get a low-end dual-core (not much more moola)....and if it's Intel....waiting til after Apr.22nd.
April 14, 2007 11:56:36 AM

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Is their any benefit of getting a cedar mill over a 90nm version,In both celeronD and Pentiums?

What for?! You'd better not get Netburst crap, be it Cedar Mill or Prescott.
April 14, 2007 12:27:10 PM

What's the purpose of the system? Cedar mill really is better. It's very cheap in our place. But Dual cores are really worth the extra money.




hmmm... wish i didnt get intel 915G chipset years ago. I'm stuck with a pentium.
April 14, 2007 12:32:47 PM

Quote:
Is their any benefit of getting a cedar mill over a 90nm version,In both celeronD and Pentiums?

What for?! You'd better not get Netburst crap, be it Cedar Mill or Prescott.You sound like a broken record. :x
April 14, 2007 2:16:39 PM

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Is their any benefit of getting a cedar mill over a 90nm version,In both celeronD and Pentiums?

What for?! You'd better not get Netburst crap, be it Cedar Mill or Prescott.You sound like a broken record. :x
I know, but there's always someone who doesn't know this and you've got to tell him. Buying anything P4-ish is just a stupid waste of money and people who ask about them obviously don't know it; that's why I aways want to tell them this first. Aside from the fact that Pentium4s and Ds perform like crap and are not worth their price at all, they give you heat issues too; many of their owners have had heat or noise issues related to heat so why not tell these people the truth?!
April 14, 2007 2:27:23 PM

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but if hes buying, the new c2d and single cores are coming out all of which are great for speed. and the prices will be ripe very soon.

I'd rather get a X2 3600+ than a Core2 single core because all they do performance-wise is compete at most with the 2.2GHz A64 3500+ which wil still sell around their same price. while the X2 3600+ is only $5 more.
April 14, 2007 2:44:39 PM

Quote:
Is their any benefit of getting a cedar mill over a 90nm version,In both celeronD and Pentiums?

What for?! You'd better not get Netburst crap, be it Cedar Mill or Prescott.You sound like a broken record. :x
I know, but there's always someone who doesn't know this and you've got to tell him. Buying anything P4-ish is just a stupid waste of money and people who ask about them obviously don't know it; that's why I aways want to tell them this first. Aside from the fact that Pentium4s and Ds perform like crap and are not worth their price at all, they give you heat issues too; many of their owners have had heat or noise issues related to heat so why not tell these people the truth?!Because it's not entirely true anymore. I bought a 915D about a month ago, to tide me over til the apr 22 price-cuts. It performs okay(O/Ced to 3.4), runs a lot cooler than prescotts, and isn't noisy. The only minus, is that it doesn't perform at C2D/x2 levels(mostly in games)...but can compete with low-end C2D/X2'S in some things. When i get my C2D, it will serve as a backup/spare, should anything nasty happen. :?
April 14, 2007 3:43:14 PM

That Cedar Mill is better than Prescott is very true and considering it as an upgrade when you can't go C2D is OK but it's foolish to think of a new build with it.
April 15, 2007 7:03:38 AM

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That Cedar Mill is better than Prescott is very true and considering it as an upgrade when you can't go C2D is OK but it's foolish to think of a new build with it.


I just recently sold my Celeron D 360 that I bought for "stuff" and giggles, since I already have a C2D. I managed to OC it easily from 3.46 to 4.63, stock HSF, stock voltages. It's scores in SiSandra were comparable to an FX-57, with a gig of crappy DDR2-533 ram. Had I put that CPU in my big rig, who knows what it would have done......all from a little bitty "economy" processor. I wouldn't go underestimating the potential of these little guys. Of course, I'd rather have the dual-core, but If I didn't have one already, I don't think I would have much to complain about from a $70 single-core processor.
April 15, 2007 9:13:12 AM

Maybe Sandra's scores were nice, but I'd not use synthetic benches to measure CPU performance and, however, I doubt a 4.5GHz CeleronD would run without problems for more than 6 months.
April 15, 2007 10:43:59 AM

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Maybe Sandra's scores were nice, but I'd not use synthetic benches to measure CPU performance and, however, I doubt a 4.5GHz CeleronD would run without problems for more than 6 months.
You're kidding, right? There are a fair number of Cedar Mill Cellys running at over 5GHz out there, and the record on LN2 is Celly 352@7770MHz :D  :wink: :wink:
April 15, 2007 11:02:42 AM

Cedar Mill is a whole lot better than Prescott and they dont really cost more than Prescotts.
April 15, 2007 11:59:13 AM

I purchased a 631 chip 6 months ago. Im happy with it.
I wouldnt buy a cele. The P4 cedar mills are soo cheap now.

One thing to bear in mind. For some reason, Intel has variations in this line of processors. There are revision numbers. Some of the cedar mill chips have speedstep technology while others dont (even though they have the same processor number!). I only found out later that mine did not have speedstep. The only reliable source to find out what technologies each revision has is Intel's site. The wiki was useless.

I run mine with HT disabled. It runs noticeably hotter with HT running with not that much boost in performance.
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April 15, 2007 2:10:07 PM

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I know, but there's always someone who doesn't know this and you've got to tell him. Buying anything P4-ish is just a stupid waste of money and people who ask about them obviously don't know it; that's why I aways want to tell them this first. Aside from the fact that Pentium4s and Ds perform like crap and are not worth their price at all, they give you heat issues too; many of their owners have had heat or noise issues related to heat so why not tell these people the truth?!


There are a couple of situations where buying a NetBurst chip would not be stupid. Intel changes the chipset and motherboard specs required to run new CPUs pretty frequently, so odds are that a specific LGA 775 motherboard bought more than a year ago won't run any Core-based chips but will run all or most of the NetBurst ones. If you're an Intel fan and got an LGA 775 Pentium 4 system on the ubiquitous 945 or higher-end 955 chipset a couple of years ago, it is a very cheap and powerful upgrade to plop a higher-clocked P4 Cedar Mill or especially Presler Pentium D 900 series in there. The Pentium Ds and Pentium 4s are dirt cheap now, and I'd surely jump at the chance to replace something like a 3 GHz Prescott 530 with a higher-clocked Pentium D 900 chip like the 945. Especially when the Pentium D only costs something near $100. Keep your board, RAM, and other stuff and massively increase your performance on multi-threaded applications (and increase it some on single-threaded ones as well.) Not a bad deal. The noise and heat would not be an issue to somebody who's upgrading a Prescott. The 65 nm Preslers and Cedar Mills are cooler than many of the P4 Prescotts even though they hay have more cores and are clocked higher.

Now if you're talking about getting a new system...yeah, I agree with you 100% as there are much better setups out there for what a Cedar Mill P4 or Presler Pentium D setup would cost. The AMD Athlon 64 X2 particularly comes to mind as the lower-range Brisbane X2 4400+ will run with the fastest Pentium D (965 EE) while consuming roughly half the power. The Core 2 Duo E6400 will be a bit faster than the 965EE but costs more than the X2 4400+. Every higher Athlon 64 X2 and Core 2 Duo will beat all Pentium Ds, in some cases by a very wide margin.
April 15, 2007 2:27:34 PM

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Maybe Sandra's scores were nice, but I'd not use synthetic benches to measure CPU performance and, however, I doubt a 4.5GHz CeleronD would run without problems for more than 6 months.
You're kidding, right? There are a fair number of Cedar Mill Cellys running at over 5GHz out there, and the record on LN2 is Celly 352@7770MHz :D  :wink: :wink:
Yes, but I am just curious about the life span of such setups; how much do they last?! :roll: If Intel aborted even the 4GHz P4, there should be something odd about relying on a 5.0GHz Netburst chip.
April 15, 2007 3:39:23 PM

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Maybe Sandra's scores were nice, but I'd not use synthetic benches to measure CPU performance and, however, I doubt a 4.5GHz CeleronD would run without problems for more than 6 months.
You're kidding, right? There are a fair number of Cedar Mill Cellys running at over 5GHz out there, and the record on LN2 is Celly 352@7770MHz :D  :wink: :wink:
Yes, but I am just curious about the life span of such setups; how much do they last?! :roll: If Intel aborted even the 4GHz P4, there should be something odd about relying on a 5.0GHz Netburst chip.

So long as you keep it below 60*C for most of its life, and the voltage below 1.4v, you should be fine.

Speaking of NetBurst, I need to get rid of mine... >_> It's going to be a major PITA when I get Supreme Commander. :[
April 15, 2007 8:52:11 PM

Quote:
Maybe Sandra's scores were nice, but I'd not use synthetic benches to measure CPU performance and, however, I doubt a 4.5GHz CeleronD would run without problems for more than 6 months.
You're kidding, right? There are a fair number of Cedar Mill Cellys running at over 5GHz out there, and the record on LN2 is Celly 352@7770MHz :D  :wink: :wink:
Yes, but I am just curious about the life span of such setups; how much do they last?! :roll: If Intel aborted even the 4GHz P4, there should be something odd about relying on a 5.0GHz Netburst chip.Intel CPU's are extremely robust/tough. Takes a lot to kill one. Netburst isn't the fastest, but it's like a cat(9-lives). With the exception of NSDS(Northwood), Netburst is hard to kill, unless you short some pins/lans together, take of the IHS and chip the core... or bust off a pin or two too many. 8)
April 15, 2007 8:54:33 PM

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I know, but there's always someone who doesn't know this and you've got to tell him. Buying anything P4-ish is just a stupid waste of money and people who ask about them obviously don't know it; that's why I aways want to tell them this first. Aside from the fact that Pentium4s and Ds perform like crap and are not worth their price at all, they give you heat issues too; many of their owners have had heat or noise issues related to heat so why not tell these people the truth?!


There are a couple of situations where buying a NetBurst chip would not be stupid. Intel changes the chipset and motherboard specs required to run new CPUs pretty frequently, so odds are that a specific LGA 775 motherboard bought more than a year ago won't run any Core-based chips but will run all or most of the NetBurst ones. If you're an Intel fan and got an LGA 775 Pentium 4 system on the ubiquitous 945 or higher-end 955 chipset a couple of years ago, it is a very cheap and powerful upgrade to plop a higher-clocked P4 Cedar Mill or especially Presler Pentium D 900 series in there. The Pentium Ds and Pentium 4s are dirt cheap now, and I'd surely jump at the chance to replace something like a 3 GHz Prescott 530 with a higher-clocked Pentium D 900 chip like the 945. Especially when the Pentium D only costs something near $100. Keep your board, RAM, and other stuff and massively increase your performance on multi-threaded applications (and increase it some on single-threaded ones as well.) Not a bad deal. The noise and heat would not be an issue to somebody who's upgrading a Prescott. The 65 nm Preslers and Cedar Mills are cooler than many of the P4 Prescotts even though they hay have more cores and are clocked higher.

Now if you're talking about getting a new system...yeah, I agree with you 100% as there are much better setups out there for what a Cedar Mill P4 or Presler Pentium D setup would cost. The AMD Athlon 64 X2 particularly comes to mind as the lower-range Brisbane X2 4400+ will run with the fastest Pentium D (965 EE) while consuming roughly half the power. The Core 2 Duo E6400 will be a bit faster than the 965EE but costs more than the X2 4400+. Every higher Athlon 64 X2 and Core 2 Duo will beat all Pentium Ds, in some cases by a very wide margin.Nice sensible post MU. People are so fast to jump on Netburst's inefficiency's/problems, that they would rather shoot their dog, than admit there might be a use for them.(and i don't mean target-practice). :D  :D  :D