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Cold boot problems (PSU to blame?)

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April 16, 2007 1:46:28 PM

Hello all,

I am desperately seeking information about a problem I have.

I recently bought some upgrade parts for my PC. Now I have a problem when performing a cold boot.

The system comes on and gives a regular post beep. After that the screen does not come on and I have to switch off and on the PC again. After that second time it works.

Because my new mainboard needs a 24pin connection and I still had an old PSU I thought I needed to upgrade the PSU so 24 pins was supported. This however didnt solve the problem.

This is my current system:

ASUS M2V
AMD Athlon X2 4200+ (64bits)
Coolermaster x-dream cooler
ATI X1650Pro 256MB
2x 1GB DDR2 800Mhz ram
PSU Zalman ZM360B-APS
Linksys Wifi PCI card
2 Hard disks
1 Floppy
1 DVD/RW
1 DVD rom

Please dont tell me that this PSU is not good enough for my config :? :oops: 

Can anyone give some advice please?
April 16, 2007 3:03:48 PM

Well the zalman specs say +12v@26A continuous, and I calc'd your setup at less then +12v@~21 which means you will never draw above 80% of the power supplies +12v capacity. So yes that PSU should work well.

I would try a different monitor first to rule that out.
April 17, 2007 6:39:59 AM

Thanks for the response! I am glad that I know that the PSU should be OK now AMP wise.

I also noticed that there was again a new BIOS version for my mainboard. I tried that and still the problem is not solved.

I will try a different monitor tonight.

And @mpilchfamily. Is it realy necessarry to test this? I mean the PSU is only 4 days old and I had the same issue with the previous PSU. Maybe I should have mentioned this in my first post :?

I mean the system works, but I have to turn it on, off and on again on a cold boot for it to work :) 

I also did check my connections twice and everything that I can connect is connected.
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April 17, 2007 7:09:25 AM

Yeah I am afraid that is the next step. I will call the shop today and see what I can arrange.

Thanks for the help so far, ill keep you informed :) 
April 17, 2007 9:21:26 AM

Is your CPU OCed? Some mobos/BIOSes cannot boot 1st time after power off, when CPU is OCed...
April 17, 2007 11:26:52 AM

@beerandcandy

I do have a Dell photo printer connected which has a built-in card reader. I will try to disable it.

@dr_kuli

Can you tell me what OCed is?
April 17, 2007 11:39:35 AM

Oh DOH of course OC = Over Clocking :) 

But no I did not OC the processor. However there are options in the BIOS for "AI overclocking". They are set default which is "auto"

[code:1:3b19cf2608]
AI Overclocking [Auto]
Allows selection of CPU overclocking options to achieve desired CPU internal frequency. Select either one of the preset overclocking configuration options:

Manual - allows you to individually set overclocking parameters.
Auto - loads the optimal settings for the system.
Standard - loads the standard settings for the system.
Overclock Profile - loads overclocking profiles with optimal parameters for
stability when overclocking.
[/code:1:3b19cf2608]

I did try the option "standard" once it didnt change anything.
April 17, 2007 12:33:06 PM

Some time ago I had a system that would power down when hot. After much hair-pulling and all the other standard fault finding procedures I discovered a hairline crack in a track on the motherboard. When the motherboard got warm the track would part, break contact and cause a shut-down. On that day silver conductive paint was my best friend. (That machine still works today.)

It is a slim possibility, I admit, but you could just have the opposite problem - perhaps you have a cracked track which connects when it gets warm (on second boot). (No flames please - I know it really is a tiny chance.)

The actual cause for my cracked track could have been the extremely tight DDR slot on channel 2. I almost RMA'd the board a year before because it was so difficult to get the module to seat with out using what I considered to be too much force, but then it seated just before I was about to give up.

Since this incident I always put memory modules in before mounting the motherboard on the tray.

Q
April 17, 2007 4:07:18 PM

I have a similar problem with my system which happens under the following 2 circumstances:

1) I tell my PC to Reboot.
2) I cold boot.

When I do either of these, the power comes on (fans spin, lights light up, and the drives power on) however, no beeps, no screen, nada. Even if I let it sit for a while, I get nothing. What I have to do is power it back off and back on with the power button, and then it will boot.

I am beginning to wonder if it is just poor quality of ASUS motherboards.

My motherboard is an ASUS A8N-VM CSM.

--Shodar
April 17, 2007 4:39:33 PM

Change your AI to Manual and check if it solves the problem.
April 17, 2007 5:34:21 PM

Ok I tried the following just now.

- Changed the monitor
- Disconnected the USB printer (with card reader)
- Removed the WiFI card (someone else suggested this)
- Tried connecting the monitor with the DVI connection

Al of this didnt solve my problem. I am really starting to think that something is broken. Either motherboard or the ATI x1650pro card.

I will look at that AI overclocking setting on manual. Not sure what I have to fill in though (because you have to set all settings manually).

@Shodar

i dont have it when I reboot and I do have beeps. But I do get a black screen whe I choose log-off from Windows :?
April 17, 2007 6:07:46 PM

Do you have it, when you choose Start/Turn Off Computer.../Turn Off? Also, how are your Power Options configured in Control Panel? The same in BIOS (S1 or S3/S4)?
April 17, 2007 6:56:58 PM

Ok I have an update for you. I am almost 100% sure that the AI overclocking was causing my cold boot problem. I just want to test it some more to be sure, but it looks good.

I set the AI Overclocking to manual and left the FSB Speed at 200 Mhz (have option for 200 - 400).

Ok for the Log-off problem, this is of course when I am in windows. When i click Start-Log off I get a black screen. When I choose Start-Shutdown or Start-Reboot it all goes well.

Dr_kuli I am not sure what you mean with S1,S2 or S3.

I am running Windows Vista Ultimate 32 bit version and the power settings are set to the high performance scheme.
April 17, 2007 7:09:19 PM

Check in your power options in Windows. I'm nearly sure, that when you log off that fancy Vista makes your system sleep :)  If so, simply don't use log off :)  In BIOS, under Power Management you should have selectable options S1/POS, S3 or S4. Choose S1.
April 17, 2007 8:56:28 PM

Ok after some more testing I can conclude that the AI Overclocking setting is the sollution.

I now have it set to Manual at 200 Mhz FSB.

dr_kuli, I have set the BIOS to S1/POS like you said. But loggig off still gives me a black screen. I also checked the power settings, but I cannot change the behaviour of the log-off or switch user options.

However this is a whole other problem and I dont think it should stay in the PSU case mod topic. I am going to do some more research on the matter and maybe ill just re-install vista to see what happens.

Thank you all very much for all the suggestions and in the end the sollution to my cold boot problem :D  8)

Ill stick with these forums, lots of good info here :lol: 
April 18, 2007 5:44:26 AM

:cry:  :cry:  :cry: 

Ok spoke too soon. When I switched my PC on this morning, same cold boot problem again. I even got a message saying that overclocking had failed, possibly because it is now on manual.

I think I will call the shop and ask for replacement parts.


:cry:  :cry:  :cry: 
April 18, 2007 6:18:25 AM

Before you call - check real Vcore under Windows idle. It shouldn't be less than specified for your CPU, 1.35V or 1.25V 'cause there are two types of such CPU. If Vcore is lower than specified, adjust it in BIOS until you see it specified, in Windows idle.
April 18, 2007 6:32:26 AM

When I check that with PC Probe II it says the Vcore is 1.25v. Everest also says 1.25v
April 18, 2007 6:43:33 AM

I agree. But it doesn't hurt to upper Vcore a bit and see if it helps. If so - the Vdroop is simply too big.
April 18, 2007 6:46:41 AM

Remember that the problem only occurs when I start the PC from a cold boot (been off for more that 30 minutes or so). Could it be that the Vcore is too low when powering up the pc?
April 18, 2007 6:50:38 AM

Yes, it could be. I've had similar problem with overclocked Asus P5B-E.
April 18, 2007 6:55:48 AM

The thing is. I never overclocked my system. I installed the hardware out of the box and I have this cold boot problem.

Then to try and solve it I switch AI overclock to manual in stead of auto. I seemed to be working, but today I discovered that it didnt work. Still have to switch off and on my PC when starting from cold boot.

I am starting to get annoyed :) 
April 18, 2007 7:25:18 AM

Well, it shouldn't be like this, but it is. If you prefer your supplier to work it out - just call him. I'm used to do such things alone, since there is no tech support nearby, good enough to satisfy me :) 
April 18, 2007 7:31:02 AM

It sounds suspiciously like a power problem.However,you have obviously taken messures to rule out the psu.The only thing I can think of that would cause that sort of issues is either a bad psu or a bad capacitor.Double check all your cable connections and make sure everything is plugged in correctly.

Dahak

AMD X2-4400+@2.6 TOLEDO
EVGA NF4 SLI MB
2X EVGA 7950GT KO IN SLI
4X 512MB CRUCIAL BALLISTIX DDR500
WD300GIG HD/SAMSUNG 250GIG HD
ACER 22IN WIDESCREEN LCD 1600X1200
THERMALTAKE TOUGHPOWER 850WATT PSU
COOLERMASTER MINI R120
3DMARK05 13,471
April 18, 2007 7:49:56 AM

No man I dont prefer the supplier, they have this policy to check everything (which we already checked on this forum) again and then send it back yo ASUS. Or at least this is what they write oin their website.

I just think its weird that it didnt work out of the box. And I usualy get things fixed myself. Its just that I have tried so many things now that I am starting to loose hope :) 

I cleared the CMOS btw by removing battery and switching a jumper. I didnt try that before. Maybe that solves something.

Anyway dr_kuli i am still interested in hearing about those Vcore settings.

@Dahak I checked all the cables a lot of times now :( 
April 18, 2007 8:20:43 AM

AI OC is something, which is useless for serious overclockers and a serious trouble for average users. Switching it off (Manual) ensure, that nothing will happen to voltages, multipliers, dividers and frequencies - without your expressed will :)  As for A64 any Vcore up to 1.5V is considered safe. Set your HTT to 200, HTT multi to 5x, CPU multi to 11, DRAM:CPU ratio to 1:1, PCI to 33, AGP to 67, switch off any Power Management including Cool'n'Quiet, leave the rest at defaults and check. It wil give you perfect defaults for your CPU, without ANY overclocking, and without ANY artificial intelligence LOL. Only some overvolting in a safe manner.
April 18, 2007 11:43:15 AM

Ok I had a look at the options for OC.

I set the following:

Hyper Transport Freq. - 1000 Mhz (could not find multiplier)
Proc. Freq. Multi. - x11 2200Mhz)

I could not find options for:

DRAM:CPU ratio
PCI to 33
AGP to 67 (board doesnt have AGP slot)

I found the Processor voltage part but it only allows:

0.900 v
0.875 v
0.850 v
0.825 v
0.800 v
Auto

I left it to Auto.
April 18, 2007 12:25:43 PM

All settings should be under Advanced>JumperFree Configuration, CPU Configuration, Chipset. Instead of AGP, set PCI-e at 100. It might be, that Asus stripped down user configurable values on this board, but CPU Voltage is a nonsense, try to scroll the list above 0.900V or below Auto, it might be not visible at once.
April 18, 2007 12:45:05 PM

Heh, cheaky buggers at ASUS making me beleve there are no more voltage options :) 

Indeed scrollign further showed me more options. The highest available is 1.30v which I chose.

Although now I am probably going to need a better cooler ;)  Temp used to be around 33 - 35. Now they are around 38 - 40.

Still havent found the PCI-e part I will try to look for it. But like you say maybe it is not an option that I can configure for this mobo.
April 18, 2007 12:54:31 PM

Nope cant find it, Ill list the options here:

Jumperfree Conf.
AI Overclocking - Manual
FSB Freq. - 200
PLL1 Spread Spec - Enabled

DDR Voltage - Auto

CPU Conf
Some other options...
and hen this
AMD Overclocking
Proc. Freq. Multi. - X11 2200Mhz
Proc. Volt. - 1.300V

Chipset
Primary Graphics Adapter - PCIE VGA (Other option is PCI)
Search for MDA - NO

HTT Freq Auto - Disabled
HTT Freq - 1000Mhz
HTT Link Width - 16v 16^


Thats about it.
April 18, 2007 12:55:05 PM

Now check, if this higher Vcore is a remedy to your problem. And check, after hard reboot, is it 1.300V still the highest Vcore you can set. I've seen such miracles on P5B-E...
April 18, 2007 1:00:27 PM

Yeah I will test it for sure. The thing is I have to keep my PC shut down for a while for it to be a good test.

I thought it worked yesterday and when the PC was off for a whole night the problem came back. So im nor cheering yet untill I tried it overnight :) 

Anyway, thanks so far for your help!!!
April 18, 2007 2:44:59 PM

Quote:
DDR Voltage - Auto

Hmm, maybe check your VDIMM rating from the manufacturer specs as well, and check what it is being auto detected in the BIOS... SPD is great for the speed but voltage detection is sometimes wrong.
April 18, 2007 3:13:21 PM

Specs say the DIMMS are 1.8v

I was indeed able to set this in the BIOS to 1.8
April 19, 2007 6:32:29 AM

After a reboot the highest voltage is still 1.300v.

And again when the PC has been switched off for a long period (like more then 1 - 2 hours) it will not come up when you press the power button the first time. I have to switch it off and on again to get it booting correctly.

I think i am out of options now :( 
April 19, 2007 10:18:03 AM

So you did everything you could do. Board has no Vcore adjustment above 1.3V on a given CPU, all is set properly, and it's still cold boot issue. You have two options - you can try to live with it or you can call your supplier. I'm sorry.
April 19, 2007 10:28:57 AM

Dont be sorry :)  You helped me a greeat deal to try and fix the problem. I also learned from this, which is worth something :) 

I have contaced the supplier and I hae a feeling this might take some time with them. Lets hope they are easy going since the stuff is only 1 and a half weeks old.

We will see.....

Anyway thanks a lot for helping!
April 19, 2007 11:27:18 AM

I had that same problem. My problem disappeared after I burnt-in the new system. With usage the problem disappeared. It was due to the new parts not having been in use.
April 19, 2007 11:35:09 AM

That is an interesting thought. I must say that the time the PC has to be turned off to produce the problem is now longer then in the beginning (or I am starting to imagine things that are not there :? ).

It used to happed even if the pc was off only 5 minutes. Now it has to be switched off for an hour or more before the problem occurs.

Who knows....
!