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Consumer Reports & Pioneer

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Anonymous
November 9, 2004 11:13:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I'm thinking about taking the plunge for a 40"+ HDTV. Can anyone offer an
opinion as to why most of the staff I've spoken to in a number of retail
stores all say Pioneer Elite is the best and yet Pioneer is nowhere to be
seen in Consumer Reports?
November 9, 2004 11:13:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Ray Kivimaki wrote:

> I'm thinking about taking the plunge for a 40"+ HDTV. Can anyone offer an
> opinion as to why most of the staff I've spoken to in a number of retail
> stores all say Pioneer Elite is the best and yet Pioneer is nowhere to be
> seen in Consumer Reports?
>
>

Consumer Reports is incomplete and it's reviews are often way out of
date. They still have only barely mentioned the DLP sets which are
becoming very popular. Try looking in on the AVS forums such as:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&foru...

Sharon
Anonymous
November 9, 2004 11:23:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Ray Kivimaki" <kivimaki@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:2y9kd.25680$Al3.6440@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
> I'm thinking about taking the plunge for a 40"+ HDTV. Can anyone offer an
> opinion as to why most of the staff I've spoken to in a number of retail
> stores all say Pioneer Elite is the best and yet Pioneer is nowhere to be
> seen in Consumer Reports?

Consumer Reports is incomplete and is only a starting point. The Pioneer
products are very good but it depends somewhat on the technology that you
are looking at. Mostly, there are much better values than the Pioneer these
days. They were once an easy choice in performance comparisons. Never have
been a good choice from a service perspective, IME.

Leonard
Related resources
November 10, 2004 3:22:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I've been checking out plasma tv's for quite some time now, and the newest
Pioneer Elite series has the most natural looking picture. The panasonic's
are a close second.
However, Pioneer has quite a few models, and only a couple are the latest
design.

"Ray Kivimaki" <kivimaki@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:2y9kd.25680$Al3.6440@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
> I'm thinking about taking the plunge for a 40"+ HDTV. Can anyone offer an
> opinion as to why most of the staff I've spoken to in a number of retail
> stores all say Pioneer Elite is the best and yet Pioneer is nowhere to be
> seen in Consumer Reports?
>
>
Anonymous
November 11, 2004 1:40:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I wouldn't rely on any electronic review from Consumer Reports. I followed
their advice for audio products and every product they said was a best buy
didn't last. ex Avid 102 speakers.( tweeter failed) and at least three
others products that I can't recall.
"Leonard Caillouet" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:_3ekd.3$_q1.0@lakeread08...
>
> "Ray Kivimaki" <kivimaki@swbell.net> wrote in message
> news:2y9kd.25680$Al3.6440@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
> > I'm thinking about taking the plunge for a 40"+ HDTV. Can anyone offer
an
> > opinion as to why most of the staff I've spoken to in a number of retail
> > stores all say Pioneer Elite is the best and yet Pioneer is nowhere to
be
> > seen in Consumer Reports?
>
> Consumer Reports is incomplete and is only a starting point. The Pioneer
> products are very good but it depends somewhat on the technology that you
> are looking at. Mostly, there are much better values than the Pioneer
these
> days. They were once an easy choice in performance comparisons. Never
have
> been a good choice from a service perspective, IME.
>
> Leonard
>
>
Anonymous
November 11, 2004 1:40:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

The Consumer Reports that I subscribe to says they will have the
newest HDTV sets in the December issue. The issue should be out
in a few weeks. I did find with all the sets they test and list are
about six months old. I'm not sure if CR list a top rated set or a CR
best buy as a qualitied set. They go for performance and reasonable
price. If you look they usually list the worse set and the best set
as far as lasting ability.

I think it was Sony as best in the regular or standard direct view
sets in Nov 2003 issue. Seems in 2003 RCA bit the dust when
Thompson bought them out. I remember the quality list did show various
screen sizes. I have no idea how they will do that when the HD sets
have a year or two running time on them.

Ok on the 40" screen. A wide screen about 40" to 45" should be nice.
Make sure your new set is a High Definition set and not a Enhanced
Definition set. EH sets are usually $1000 or less.

hdtvfan

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:40:28 GMT, "rppb" <rppb@comcast.net> wrote:

>I wouldn't rely on any electronic review from Consumer Reports. I followed
>their advice for audio products and every product they said was a best buy
>didn't last. ex Avid 102 speakers.( tweeter failed) and at least three
>others products that I can't recall.
>"Leonard Caillouet" <no@no.com> wrote in message
>news:_3ekd.3$_q1.0@lakeread08...
>>
>> "Ray Kivimaki" <kivimaki@swbell.net> wrote in message
>> news:2y9kd.25680$Al3.6440@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
>> > I'm thinking about taking the plunge for a 40"+ HDTV. Can anyone offer
>an
>> > opinion as to why most of the staff I've spoken to in a number of retail
>> > stores all say Pioneer Elite is the best and yet Pioneer is nowhere to
>be
>> > seen in Consumer Reports?
>>
>> Consumer Reports is incomplete and is only a starting point. The Pioneer
>> products are very good but it depends somewhat on the technology that you
>> are looking at. Mostly, there are much better values than the Pioneer
>these
>> days. They were once an easy choice in performance comparisons. Never
>have
>> been a good choice from a service perspective, IME.
>>
>> Leonard
>>
>>
>
Anonymous
November 11, 2004 1:20:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Ray Kivimaki wrote:
> I'm thinking about taking the plunge for a 40"+ HDTV. Can anyone offer an
> opinion as to why most of the staff I've spoken to in a number of retail
> stores all say Pioneer Elite is the best and yet Pioneer is nowhere to be
> seen in Consumer Reports?
>
>

Hitachi, an excellent brand, was also missing from the Consumer
Reports review.
Anonymous
November 11, 2004 6:28:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Thx for the forum link.

"Sharon" <me7@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2vddtdF2itim8U1@uni-berlin.de...
>
>
> Ray Kivimaki wrote:
>
>> I'm thinking about taking the plunge for a 40"+ HDTV. Can anyone offer an
>> opinion as to why most of the staff I've spoken to in a number of retail
>> stores all say Pioneer Elite is the best and yet Pioneer is nowhere to be
>> seen in Consumer Reports?
>
> Consumer Reports is incomplete and it's reviews are often way out of
> date. They still have only barely mentioned the DLP sets which are
> becoming very popular. Try looking in on the AVS forums such as:
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&foru...
>
> Sharon
Anonymous
November 11, 2004 8:44:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Ray Kivimaki" <kivimaki@swbell.net> wrote in message news:<2y9kd.25680$Al3.6440@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>...
> I'm thinking about taking the plunge for a 40"+ HDTV. Can anyone offer an
> opinion as to why most of the staff I've spoken to in a number of retail
> stores all say Pioneer Elite is the best and yet Pioneer is nowhere to be
> seen in Consumer Reports?

Ray, I'll answer both of your questions. First, I'm a bit surprised to
find that "most of the staff... of retail stores all say Pioneer Elite
is the best". If you're talking to a sales rep at a retailer that
carried Pioneer Elite then of course they will tell you that, because
Pioneer Elite is probably the retailer's most expensive product
offerings, with signifigant profit margins (hence, they will make the
most of an Pioneer Elite sale), 2. and only select retailers carry the
"Elite" series of product (the sales rep will by happy to let you know
this. 3. Pionner Elite products are really top of the line. There is
some truth to the hype, but here's the rest of the story...

So going back four-five years ago, HDTV was a luxurious item to have,
Pionner capitalized on this market by offering an "Elite" series of
high end product that catered to the upper clase in the same way a
Rolls-Royce dealer caters to the elite customers. This is why only
select retailers can carry this product, the entire sales experience
is somewhat controlled. So what's happend over the past few years is
that HDTV's have become more available. Although, they can still be
considered a luxury item, they aren't just for the upper class
anymore. So while Pionner continued to make the Elite series, other
companies have risen to put out product that completes well (arguably
better than) the Pioneer Elite series of product. So if you want to
pay for a buying experience get the Rolls-Royce (Pionner Elite) which
is the most expensive "best", for the rest of us who want top of the
line without empting the bank account, consider the Lexus of HDTVs
(Hitachi S series, Toshiba Cinema series). If you want to go for the
middle-end (Honda Civic)) you can always go with RCA or Philips, if
you want really cheap (Daewoo) you with a generic brand name such as
Apex.

Please note that most of what I've stated here is subjective, it's
based on my observations of the industry and my own research over the
past eighteen months or so, however you can see clear evidence of the
decline of Pioneer Elite series. For example, this year Pionner
decided to pull out of the CRT-rear projection market (applies to
Elite series only) to focus on LCD and Plasma displays. Why would they
do this? Because for the money, their sets could not compete. They
want to focus the Elite series to "elite" upper class consumers and
suddenly CRT rear-projection wasn't in-line with that model. So if
you're looking for a rear-projection set the Elite series is really
out of the question anyone. If this is what you're interested in,
you'll find the best value in Hitachi and Toshiba products. Both of
these companies put out sets that I feel are really neck and neck for
the #1 spot in picture quality and features. Look for Hitachi S series
HDTVs (51S500, 57S500, 65S500, etc...) and look for Toshiba HX series
(aka Cinema series). You're welcome to look at other series by these
two companies, but know that they aren't in the same class. As with
the Elite series, Toshiba and Hitachi are rather selective about who
can carry their top of the end, but unlike Pionner you're not going to
be out $1000's more for a top of the line product, you will pay a
$200-$300 premium, but you're going to get a better product in return.

If you want LCD or Plasma definately go check out the Pionner Elites,
but compare notes on what you're getting. To get true HDTV on a Plasma
or LCD is still rather expensive, so you're already going to be out a
bit, it may be worth the extra money to invest in a Pionner Elite for
you. I wouldn't put the money into it myself, but then again I've
invested a lot of time in knowing how to do a lot of things for myself
that you may want to avoid. With a Pionner Elite dealer, you're going
to get a professional install, you're going to be happy with your set,
but you are going to pay for that.


-Jeremy
http://hdtv.0catch.com
Anonymous
November 17, 2004 10:43:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Wow - thanks for the great information!!!!!
"JDeats" <jeremy@pdq.net> wrote in message
news:b0738dc6.0411111744.6a50985@posting.google.com...
> "Ray Kivimaki" <kivimaki@swbell.net> wrote in message
> news:<2y9kd.25680$Al3.6440@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>...
>> I'm thinking about taking the plunge for a 40"+ HDTV. Can anyone offer an
>> opinion as to why most of the staff I've spoken to in a number of retail
>> stores all say Pioneer Elite is the best and yet Pioneer is nowhere to be
>> seen in Consumer Reports?
>
> Ray, I'll answer both of your questions. First, I'm a bit surprised to
> find that "most of the staff... of retail stores all say Pioneer Elite
> is the best". If you're talking to a sales rep at a retailer that
> carried Pioneer Elite then of course they will tell you that, because
> Pioneer Elite is probably the retailer's most expensive product
> offerings, with signifigant profit margins (hence, they will make the
> most of an Pioneer Elite sale), 2. and only select retailers carry the
> "Elite" series of product (the sales rep will by happy to let you know
> this. 3. Pionner Elite products are really top of the line. There is
> some truth to the hype, but here's the rest of the story...
>
> So going back four-five years ago, HDTV was a luxurious item to have,
> Pionner capitalized on this market by offering an "Elite" series of
> high end product that catered to the upper clase in the same way a
> Rolls-Royce dealer caters to the elite customers. This is why only
> select retailers can carry this product, the entire sales experience
> is somewhat controlled. So what's happend over the past few years is
> that HDTV's have become more available. Although, they can still be
> considered a luxury item, they aren't just for the upper class
> anymore. So while Pionner continued to make the Elite series, other
> companies have risen to put out product that completes well (arguably
> better than) the Pioneer Elite series of product. So if you want to
> pay for a buying experience get the Rolls-Royce (Pionner Elite) which
> is the most expensive "best", for the rest of us who want top of the
> line without empting the bank account, consider the Lexus of HDTVs
> (Hitachi S series, Toshiba Cinema series). If you want to go for the
> middle-end (Honda Civic)) you can always go with RCA or Philips, if
> you want really cheap (Daewoo) you with a generic brand name such as
> Apex.
>
> Please note that most of what I've stated here is subjective, it's
> based on my observations of the industry and my own research over the
> past eighteen months or so, however you can see clear evidence of the
> decline of Pioneer Elite series. For example, this year Pionner
> decided to pull out of the CRT-rear projection market (applies to
> Elite series only) to focus on LCD and Plasma displays. Why would they
> do this? Because for the money, their sets could not compete. They
> want to focus the Elite series to "elite" upper class consumers and
> suddenly CRT rear-projection wasn't in-line with that model. So if
> you're looking for a rear-projection set the Elite series is really
> out of the question anyone. If this is what you're interested in,
> you'll find the best value in Hitachi and Toshiba products. Both of
> these companies put out sets that I feel are really neck and neck for
> the #1 spot in picture quality and features. Look for Hitachi S series
> HDTVs (51S500, 57S500, 65S500, etc...) and look for Toshiba HX series
> (aka Cinema series). You're welcome to look at other series by these
> two companies, but know that they aren't in the same class. As with
> the Elite series, Toshiba and Hitachi are rather selective about who
> can carry their top of the end, but unlike Pionner you're not going to
> be out $1000's more for a top of the line product, you will pay a
> $200-$300 premium, but you're going to get a better product in return.
>
> If you want LCD or Plasma definately go check out the Pionner Elites,
> but compare notes on what you're getting. To get true HDTV on a Plasma
> or LCD is still rather expensive, so you're already going to be out a
> bit, it may be worth the extra money to invest in a Pionner Elite for
> you. I wouldn't put the money into it myself, but then again I've
> invested a lot of time in knowing how to do a lot of things for myself
> that you may want to avoid. With a Pionner Elite dealer, you're going
> to get a professional install, you're going to be happy with your set,
> but you are going to pay for that.
>
>
> -Jeremy
> http://hdtv.0catch.com
November 18, 2004 6:41:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On 11 Nov 2004 17:44:39 -0800, jeremy@pdq.net (JDeats) wrote:

>"Ray Kivimaki" <kivimaki@swbell.net> wrote in message news:<2y9kd.25680$Al3.6440@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>...
>> I'm thinking about taking the plunge for a 40"+ HDTV. Can anyone offer an
>> opinion as to why most of the staff I've spoken to in a number of retail
>> stores all say Pioneer Elite is the best and yet Pioneer is nowhere to be
>> seen in Consumer Reports?
>
>Ray, I'll answer both of your questions. First, I'm a bit surprised to
>find that "most of the staff... of retail stores all say Pioneer Elite
>is the best". If you're talking to a sales rep at a retailer that
>carried Pioneer Elite then of course they will tell you that, because
>Pioneer Elite is probably the retailer's most expensive product
>offerings, with signifigant profit margins (hence, they will make the
>most of an Pioneer Elite sale), 2. and only select retailers carry the
>"Elite" series of product (the sales rep will by happy to let you know
>this. 3. Pionner Elite products are really top of the line. There is
>some truth to the hype, but here's the rest of the story...
>
>So going back four-five years ago, HDTV was a luxurious item to have,
>Pionner capitalized on this market by offering an "Elite" series of
>high end product that catered to the upper clase in the same way a
>Rolls-Royce dealer caters to the elite customers. This is why only
>select retailers can carry this product, the entire sales experience
>is somewhat controlled. So what's happend over the past few years is
>that HDTV's have become more available. Although, they can still be
>considered a luxury item, they aren't just for the upper class
>anymore. So while Pionner continued to make the Elite series, other
>companies have risen to put out product that completes well (arguably
>better than) the Pioneer Elite series of product. So if you want to
>pay for a buying experience get the Rolls-Royce (Pionner Elite) which
>is the most expensive "best", for the rest of us who want top of the
>line without empting the bank account, consider the Lexus of HDTVs
>(Hitachi S series, Toshiba Cinema series). If you want to go for the
>middle-end (Honda Civic)) you can always go with RCA or Philips, if
>you want really cheap (Daewoo) you with a generic brand name such as
>Apex.
>
>Please note that most of what I've stated here is subjective, it's
>based on my observations of the industry and my own research over the
>past eighteen months or so, however you can see clear evidence of the
>decline of Pioneer Elite series. For example, this year Pionner
>decided to pull out of the CRT-rear projection market (applies to
>Elite series only) to focus on LCD and Plasma displays. Why would they
>do this? Because for the money, their sets could not compete. They
>want to focus the Elite series to "elite" upper class consumers and
>suddenly CRT rear-projection wasn't in-line with that model. So if
>you're looking for a rear-projection set the Elite series is really
>out of the question anyone. If this is what you're interested in,
>you'll find the best value in Hitachi and Toshiba products. Both of
>these companies put out sets that I feel are really neck and neck for
>the #1 spot in picture quality and features. Look for Hitachi S series
>HDTVs (51S500, 57S500, 65S500, etc...) and look for Toshiba HX series
>(aka Cinema series). You're welcome to look at other series by these
>two companies, but know that they aren't in the same class. As with
>the Elite series, Toshiba and Hitachi are rather selective about who
>can carry their top of the end, but unlike Pionner you're not going to
>be out $1000's more for a top of the line product, you will pay a
>$200-$300 premium, but you're going to get a better product in return.
>
>If you want LCD or Plasma definately go check out the Pionner Elites,
>but compare notes on what you're getting. To get true HDTV on a Plasma
>or LCD is still rather expensive, so you're already going to be out a
>bit, it may be worth the extra money to invest in a Pionner Elite for
>you. I wouldn't put the money into it myself, but then again I've
>invested a lot of time in knowing how to do a lot of things for myself
>that you may want to avoid. With a Pionner Elite dealer, you're going
>to get a professional install, you're going to be happy with your set,
>but you are going to pay for that.
>
>
>-Jeremy
>http://hdtv.0catch.com

From my experience with Hitachi I can highly recomend them. I bought a
new 46" Ultravision Rear Projection set in 95 it is almost 10 years
old and has been trouble free and picture still looks great! I know
what brand I will look at first when I do start shoping for my new
HDTV set. My only problem is the old set still works so well it's
really hard to justify replacing it.

Bob
!