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DOS?

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April 19, 2005 6:24:43 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Hi,
For a lot of reasons, the mini-DOS with XP isn't useful for me. At the same
time I don't want to mess with an XP reinstall just so I can put DOS on
first, which I understand is the only way to do it?

Would it work to expand and copy all the DOS files to the hard drive and
then use a floppy (or CD) to boot from, setting all the env vars to the
correct path to the hard drive? I haven't tried it because one person
suggested I can corrupt files by doing it that way.

OR, if I used setver, and simply copied the missing DOS commands into the
right XP folder, with the XP DOS would those added commands work?

Or would I be better off to look in to win scripting?

Any comments or suggestions?
--
Let someone else do it
I'm retired!

More about : dos

Anonymous
April 19, 2005 11:39:48 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

"Pop" <nobody@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:%23ZwBP0QRFHA.2604@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> Hi,
> For a lot of reasons, the mini-DOS with XP isn't useful for me. At the
> same time I don't want to mess with an XP reinstall just so I can put DOS
> on first, which I understand is the only way to do it?
>
> Would it work to expand and copy all the DOS files to the hard drive and
> then use a floppy (or CD) to boot from, setting all the env vars to the
> correct path to the hard drive? I haven't tried it because one person
> suggested I can corrupt files by doing it that way.

I'd check out Virtual PC
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtualpc/default.mspx will let you create
a virtual machine so you can install any number of systems without risking
your real-OS.

There's a 45 day trial of it too!

--
Paul Smith,
Yeovil, UK.
http://www.dasmirnov.net/
http://windows.dasmirnov.net/ Windows XP Resource Site.

*Replace nospam with smirnov to reply by e-mail*
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 12:44:10 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

"Pop" <nobody@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote:

>For a lot of reasons, the mini-DOS with XP isn't useful for me. At the same
>time I don't want to mess with an XP reinstall just so I can put DOS on
>first, which I understand is the only way to do it?

See "How to Multiple Boot Windows XP, Windows 2000, Windows NT,
Windows 95, Windows 98, and MS-DOS"
(http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=217210).

--
(tm)
Related resources
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 1:59:19 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Hi, Donald.

Sorry, but much of your post is wrong. :>(

WinXP can be installed onto any volume on any HD in the computer, whether
FAT or NTFS. Since WinXP itself will typically use over 1 GB at
installation and then will grow with use, it doesn't often make sense to
install it in a FAT16 volume, which is limited to 2 GB, but MANY users
(including myself) have installed it in FAT32 volumes.

> The only way to accomplish the above is by deleting all partitions, then
> using the MSDOS installer (or fdisk/format) to setup the HD with a FAT

It is not necessary to delete the first partition to install MS-DOS. All
that is required is to format that partition as FAT (12, 16 or 32, depending
on the version of MS-DOS to be used). Then boot from an MS-DOS boot floppy
and run Sys C:, just as we've done since PCs first got hard drives in the
1980s. That won't put "a lot of files" onto the hard drive; just the MS-DOS
boot sector plus io.sys, msdos.sys and command.com. You probably also will
want to add your own version of config.sys and autoexec.bat, plus any
special drivers and other startup files you want to use. If you do copy all
of the MS-DOS files, they might take up a couple of MB, not GB.

What must be on the "system partition" (typically C:, but not always) are
the boot sector and the "system files" - for both WinXP and MS-DOS or
Win9x/ME, if it is a dual-boot system. But there are only a handful of
"system files": io.sys and msdos.sys for MS-DOS or Win9x/ME and NTLDR,
NTDETECT.COM and Boot.ini for WinNT4/2K/XP/2K3 - and all of these together
total much less than 1 MB. All the rest of the files for each version of
Windows will be in the "boot folder" for that copy of Windows. C:\boot.ini
will point to the location of each Windows installation.

When WinXP Setup finds MS-DOS (or Win9x/ME) already installed, it will make
a copy of the MS-DOS boot sector and store it as C:\bootsect.dos. Then
Setup will install WinXP wherever the user chooses. Setup will create
C:\boot.ini with entries that point to WinXP (or perhaps to several
installations of Win2K, WinXP, etc.) and to a single entry for the one copy
of MS-DOS or Win9x/ME. If the user chooses (or defaults to) MS-DOS on the
opening menu, NTLDR will load C:\bootsect.dos to replace the NT boot sector;
this will load io.sys and msdos.sys to start MS-DOS. For the rest of this
boot session, it's as though WinXP does not exist on this computer, except
for the disk space used by its files.

Except for io.sys and msdos.sys, the rest of MS-DOS or Win9x/ME can be on
any FAT-formatted volume. (For a couple of years, I dual-booted with C: as
my system partition, D: on Win2K and Win98 on E:, with apps and data on E:
and F:. That was pre-FAT32, so all volumes were formatted FAT or FAT16.)
Since MS-DOS can't read, write, boot from or even SEE an NTFS volume, any
volume that will be used by MS-DOS or Win9x/ME must also be formatted FAT.

I agree with you that the "DOS" window in WinXP is "a better DOS than DOS"
for most purposes. The exceptions generally involve DOS programs that deal
directly with the hardware, often in an attempt to speed up games and other
highly-graphic applications. Many of the environment variables and other
settings that we used to do with config.sys and autoexec.bat can now be
handled in other ways (properties sheets or config.nt and autoexec.nt) or
are no longer needed (such as "extended" or "expanded" memory or himem.sys,
or CD-ROM extensions) in WinXP, even in a "DOS" window. And the "DOS"
window handles NTFS volumes as easily as it does FAT volumes.

Pop, are you sure that Cmd.exe won't handle what you need to do?. You
haven't said just what it is that you can't do in a "DOS" window. If you
mention specific problems, someone here probably can tell you how to solve
them without MS-DOS

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
rc@corridor.net
Microsoft Windows MVP

"Donald L McDaniel" <donmcdaniel2005@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:o LtmETSRFHA.2972@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
Pop wrote:
> Hi,
> For a lot of reasons, the mini-DOS with XP isn't useful for me. At
> the same time I don't want to mess with an XP reinstall just so I can
> put DOS on first, which I understand is the only way to do it?
>
> Would it work to expand and copy all the DOS files to the hard drive
> and then use a floppy (or CD) to boot from, setting all the env vars
> to the correct path to the hard drive? I haven't tried it because
> one person suggested I can corrupt files by doing it that way.
>
> OR, if I used setver, and simply copied the missing DOS commands into
> the right XP folder, with the XP DOS would those added commands work?
>
> Or would I be better off to look in to win scripting?
>
> Any comments or suggestions?

Expanding and copying all DOS files to the Windows partition will just copy
a lot of files. To use DOS, you must have DOS installed on a FAT partition
which has the drive designation "C:". This partition must be in the first
1024 sectors of the Hard drive. That is, it must be the first partition on
the Hard drive. Not only that, but this partition must be the Primary
partition, and it must be bootable into MSDOS.

The only way to accomplish the above is by deleting all partitions, then
using the MSDOS installer (or fdisk/format) to setup the HD with a FAT
partition at the beginning of the HD, and the MSDOS boot files installed.
These files cannot just be copied to the HD. They must be installed by the
MSDOS installer. Since XP will not install to a FAT partition (and its boot
files MUST be in "C:\"), you must install XP to a second partition (either
FAT32 or NTFS) which is large enough. I recommend a minimum size for the XP
system partition of at least 10gb. If you install XP properly after MSDOS,
the XP installer will create the XP boot files and place them in "C:\". The
XP boot manager will enable you to either boot to MSDOS, or to Windows. If
you ever delete the all files on C: after this, XP will no longer boot from
the HD.

As for using "setver", part of the MSDOS fdisk program will create the MBR
(Master Boot Record) in Sector 0 of the HD. It must be here. If you just
want to use "DOS" commands (XP doesnt really have "DOS", as in MSDOS). It
has many commands which were taken from MSDOS (at least the names of the
files were taken. The actual code has been changed so that is will work
with XP. The XP commands are much richer than the traditional MSDOS
commands.) Many of the commands are far beyond the old MSDOS commands in
usability and application. You will be much better off using the new XP
command set, and command interpreter, "cmd", instead of "command.com".(which
is needed to run the older MSDOS commands). Many of the XP commands are
accessible from a Command Prompt ("Start|Run|cmd command"<Enter>

--
Donald L McDaniel
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 6:43:03 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

I would use this:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtualpc/default.mspx


"Pop" <nobody@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:%23ZwBP0QRFHA.2604@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> Hi,
> For a lot of reasons, the mini-DOS with XP isn't useful for me. At the
> same time I don't want to mess with an XP reinstall just so I can put DOS
> on first, which I understand is the only way to do it?
>
> Would it work to expand and copy all the DOS files to the hard drive and
> then use a floppy (or CD) to boot from, setting all the env vars to the
> correct path to the hard drive? I haven't tried it because one person
> suggested I can corrupt files by doing it that way.
>
> OR, if I used setver, and simply copied the missing DOS commands into the
> right XP folder, with the XP DOS would those added commands work?
>
> Or would I be better off to look in to win scripting?
>
> Any comments or suggestions?
> --
> Let someone else do it
> I'm retired!
>
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 12:07:29 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 02:43:03 GMT, Johnny Lingo wrote:

> I would use this:
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtualpc/default.mspx

That would be my choice as well. It makes easy work of "retrofitting" an
older operating system. Heck, even if starting fresh with all operating
systems - the option to install in order and all that - it's still an
easier approach.

--
Sharon F
MS-MVP ~ Windows Shell/User
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 2:46:36 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Book "Data Recovery with & without Programming" may be useful for this.

Please find the contents of the book on following link:

http://www.datadoctor.biz/author.htm

Regards,

Tarun Tyagi



"R. C. White" <rc@corridor.net> wrote in message news:<e#nEwnVRFHA.2748@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>...
> Hi, Donald.
>
> Sorry, but much of your post is wrong. :>(
>
> WinXP can be installed onto any volume on any HD in the computer, whether
> FAT or NTFS. Since WinXP itself will typically use over 1 GB at
> installation and then will grow with use, it doesn't often make sense to
> install it in a FAT16 volume, which is limited to 2 GB, but MANY users
> (including myself) have installed it in FAT32 volumes.
>
> > The only way to accomplish the above is by deleting all partitions, then
> > using the MSDOS installer (or fdisk/format) to setup the HD with a FAT
>
> It is not necessary to delete the first partition to install MS-DOS. All
> that is required is to format that partition as FAT (12, 16 or 32, depending
> on the version of MS-DOS to be used). Then boot from an MS-DOS boot floppy
> and run Sys C:, just as we've done since PCs first got hard drives in the
> 1980s. That won't put "a lot of files" onto the hard drive; just the MS-DOS
> boot sector plus io.sys, msdos.sys and command.com. You probably also will
> want to add your own version of config.sys and autoexec.bat, plus any
> special drivers and other startup files you want to use. If you do copy all
> of the MS-DOS files, they might take up a couple of MB, not GB.
>
> What must be on the "system partition" (typically C:, but not always) are
> the boot sector and the "system files" - for both WinXP and MS-DOS or
> Win9x/ME, if it is a dual-boot system. But there are only a handful of
> "system files": io.sys and msdos.sys for MS-DOS or Win9x/ME and NTLDR,
> NTDETECT.COM and Boot.ini for WinNT4/2K/XP/2K3 - and all of these together
> total much less than 1 MB. All the rest of the files for each version of
> Windows will be in the "boot folder" for that copy of Windows. C:\boot.ini
> will point to the location of each Windows installation.
>
> When WinXP Setup finds MS-DOS (or Win9x/ME) already installed, it will make
> a copy of the MS-DOS boot sector and store it as C:\bootsect.dos. Then
> Setup will install WinXP wherever the user chooses. Setup will create
> C:\boot.ini with entries that point to WinXP (or perhaps to several
> installations of Win2K, WinXP, etc.) and to a single entry for the one copy
> of MS-DOS or Win9x/ME. If the user chooses (or defaults to) MS-DOS on the
> opening menu, NTLDR will load C:\bootsect.dos to replace the NT boot sector;
> this will load io.sys and msdos.sys to start MS-DOS. For the rest of this
> boot session, it's as though WinXP does not exist on this computer, except
> for the disk space used by its files.
>
> Except for io.sys and msdos.sys, the rest of MS-DOS or Win9x/ME can be on
> any FAT-formatted volume. (For a couple of years, I dual-booted with C: as
> my system partition, D: on Win2K and Win98 on E:, with apps and data on E:
> and F:. That was pre-FAT32, so all volumes were formatted FAT or FAT16.)
> Since MS-DOS can't read, write, boot from or even SEE an NTFS volume, any
> volume that will be used by MS-DOS or Win9x/ME must also be formatted FAT.
>
> I agree with you that the "DOS" window in WinXP is "a better DOS than DOS"
> for most purposes. The exceptions generally involve DOS programs that deal
> directly with the hardware, often in an attempt to speed up games and other
> highly-graphic applications. Many of the environment variables and other
> settings that we used to do with config.sys and autoexec.bat can now be
> handled in other ways (properties sheets or config.nt and autoexec.nt) or
> are no longer needed (such as "extended" or "expanded" memory or himem.sys,
> or CD-ROM extensions) in WinXP, even in a "DOS" window. And the "DOS"
> window handles NTFS volumes as easily as it does FAT volumes.
>
> Pop, are you sure that Cmd.exe won't handle what you need to do?. You
> haven't said just what it is that you can't do in a "DOS" window. If you
> mention specific problems, someone here probably can tell you how to solve
> them without MS-DOS
>
> RC
> --
> R. C. White, CPA
> San Marcos, TX
> rc@corridor.net
> Microsoft Windows MVP
>
> "Donald L McDaniel" <donmcdaniel2005@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:o LtmETSRFHA.2972@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> Pop wrote:
> > Hi,
> > For a lot of reasons, the mini-DOS with XP isn't useful for me. At
> > the same time I don't want to mess with an XP reinstall just so I can
> > put DOS on first, which I understand is the only way to do it?
> >
> > Would it work to expand and copy all the DOS files to the hard drive
> > and then use a floppy (or CD) to boot from, setting all the env vars
> > to the correct path to the hard drive? I haven't tried it because
> > one person suggested I can corrupt files by doing it that way.
> >
> > OR, if I used setver, and simply copied the missing DOS commands into
> > the right XP folder, with the XP DOS would those added commands work?
> >
> > Or would I be better off to look in to win scripting?
> >
> > Any comments or suggestions?
>
> Expanding and copying all DOS files to the Windows partition will just copy
> a lot of files. To use DOS, you must have DOS installed on a FAT partition
> which has the drive designation "C:". This partition must be in the first
> 1024 sectors of the Hard drive. That is, it must be the first partition on
> the Hard drive. Not only that, but this partition must be the Primary
> partition, and it must be bootable into MSDOS.
>
> The only way to accomplish the above is by deleting all partitions, then
> using the MSDOS installer (or fdisk/format) to setup the HD with a FAT
> partition at the beginning of the HD, and the MSDOS boot files installed.
> These files cannot just be copied to the HD. They must be installed by the
> MSDOS installer. Since XP will not install to a FAT partition (and its boot
> files MUST be in "C:\"), you must install XP to a second partition (either
> FAT32 or NTFS) which is large enough. I recommend a minimum size for the XP
> system partition of at least 10gb. If you install XP properly after MSDOS,
> the XP installer will create the XP boot files and place them in "C:\". The
> XP boot manager will enable you to either boot to MSDOS, or to Windows. If
> you ever delete the all files on C: after this, XP will no longer boot from
> the HD.
>
> As for using "setver", part of the MSDOS fdisk program will create the MBR
> (Master Boot Record) in Sector 0 of the HD. It must be here. If you just
> want to use "DOS" commands (XP doesnt really have "DOS", as in MSDOS). It
> has many commands which were taken from MSDOS (at least the names of the
> files were taken. The actual code has been changed so that is will work
> with XP. The XP commands are much richer than the traditional MSDOS
> commands.) Many of the commands are far beyond the old MSDOS commands in
> usability and application. You will be much better off using the new XP
> command set, and command interpreter, "cmd", instead of "command.com".(which
> is needed to run the older MSDOS commands). Many of the XP commands are
> accessible from a Command Prompt ("Start|Run|cmd command"<Enter>
!