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GeForce 8600: DirectX 10 For The Masses

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April 17, 2007 2:15:19 PM

Nvidia launches another set of graphics cards bringing the features of DirectX 10 and a new PureVideo engine to sub $230 consumers.
April 17, 2007 2:41:49 PM

Quote:
The phrase "what have done for me lately" is not misplaced as we should expect a lot from the people we shell out hundreds of dollars to in computer hardware.


"What have you done for me lately"

As punishment, go listen to Janet's latest album.

:p 
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
April 17, 2007 3:57:21 PM

Linky no worky !! :?

Folks try this one maybe;
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/04/17/geforce_8600/

And seriously WTF !?! Only 3Dmk05, Doom3, FEAR and Oblivion?

And at least publish the composite sub scores of 3Dmk05 !!

Oohh final bungholiomark score on a card known to have exagerated 3Dmark results!?! C'Mon! :roll:

If you guys need more software let me know I can send you a few titles.
Related resources
April 17, 2007 4:16:07 PM

mid range DX10 card is nice and all, But when in the hell is the mid-range cards going to adopt 256bit interface, since the high-end is moving beyond 256bit?
April 17, 2007 4:35:20 PM

I guess my X1800XT is still a good card then.
April 17, 2007 4:37:33 PM

Quote:
Linky no worky !! :?

Folks try this one maybe;
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/04/17/geforce_8600/

And seriously WTF !?! Only 3Dmk05, Doom3, FEAR and Oblivion?

And at least publish the composite sub scores of 3Dmk05 !!

Oohh final bungholiomark score on a card known to have exagerated 3Dmark results!?! C'Mon! :roll:

If you guys need more software let me know I can send you a few titles.


they sold their souls to nvidia, thus only driver optimized programs for benching ;) 
April 17, 2007 4:48:54 PM

according to anand`s review the gts can hardly keep up with the x1950 pro! and it should beat the 7900gt and x1900`s? :lol: 

only in the most heavy games it can keep up with the x1950 pro.

this series is a joke (at these prices) because they are too slow for dx10 i think.

initial rumors said it would have 64 streaming processors. too bad they don`t have it because 32 turn into screaming processors since they can`t handle future games.

hopefully they lower the price for the 8800gts 640mb soon or release a 8800/8900gs so i have a upgrade path....

``YES! i bought a dx10 card for 200 dollars! no, i can`t play higher than 1024x768 because it will stutter....................!!! :roll: ``
April 17, 2007 4:49:27 PM

After reading the review, personally i think these two new cards suck. They are ok for someone who is not really interested in eye candy, but to see the x1950 beating out the NEW 8600, please...
April 17, 2007 4:54:05 PM

Hopefully, the 8600 will do better in dx10, because those benchies just show that it's not worth it imo.

What's up with the bad link lol, someone finds it too hard to copy and paste without adding the letter "e" 3/4 of the way through..
April 17, 2007 4:57:11 PM

Lol, my X850XTPE is beaten by a 8500...

sigh.
-cm
April 17, 2007 5:00:51 PM

Quote:
"Radeon 9800 has basically two memory densities 128 and 256 as well as a few models like Pro, XT and XT Platinum Edition."
Actually the 9800 had a vanilla, Pro, and XT... I hate it when big articles make simple mistakes... now on to reading the rest of it!

-mcg
April 17, 2007 5:02:07 PM

Ape, why didn't Cleeve do this review? This is right up Cleeve's alley. I'm not saying that Mr. Polkowski made a poor review, but this sort of thing is Cleeve's cup of tea. <restatement of previous sentence>
-cm
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
April 17, 2007 5:05:49 PM

Quote:
they sold their souls to nvidia, thus only driver optimized programs for benching ;) 


Yeah, maybe.

And as for the price listed, who's saying $229 is the high side, the GTS is selling for $249 at BestBuy;



And yes that US$, the guy who took the pic works for the BB in MO.
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1178431&highl...

C'mon, talk about playing down the negative for a positive review.

Anyone dumb enough to pay full price at BB should take advantage of the 90day return policy and buy elsewhere.

For about $150-179 I'd recommend it for anyone building a new PC, but for over $200 I would say they are a waste of money and people should wait for their store to drop their prices to reflect the reality of their performance level.

this is the X1600 all over again, mediocre performance being pawned off as golden.
April 17, 2007 5:09:56 PM

That's horrible... I really was expecting better performance... hmm I wonder what the new low end ATI cards can do? :twisted:
April 17, 2007 5:20:52 PM

Why would you guys even bother posting benchmarks for the 8600's if you don't use a DX10 O.S. to do them with???

This is moronic! period! take these results with a grain of salt... really, they are worthless without a Vista O.S.

If the 8600's blow with Vista just as bad... so be it, but you guys have offered us NOTHING in the way of information today!

:evil: 
April 17, 2007 5:26:43 PM

Low and middle range cards allways have been bad when compared to old high end cards. They are not for heavy gaming, they are mean to be cheap and even cheaper to produce. It's busines... The next generation of middle range cards are actually very suitable. I remember days of the comming of new and proud DX9... same thing then, same thing now.
So, if you want good and cheap... wait second generation, because new cards have to compete somehow first generation lower high end cards...
April 17, 2007 5:32:40 PM

Quote:
Why would you guys even bother posting benchmarks for the 8600's if you don't use a DX10 O.S. to do them with???

This is moronic! period! take these results with a grain of salt... really, they are worthless without a Vista O.S.

If the 8600's blow with Vista just as bad... so be it, but you guys have offered us NOTHING in the way of information today!

:evil: 


Very simple - this is done for those of us who are not willing to be beta testers of Vista just yet. There are no DX10 games out. Obviously hardware changes rather frequently, but some of us do try to hedge our bets and buy something that can be useful in the future. Yes I would like to see DX10 results just like you, but I'm not switching to Vista until someone shows me why bother. I have a 6600GT and it is not great with my 1920x1200 monitor. I would like a new card, but I don't want to out date myself at this time just in case I do change to Vista.

This review shows that the 8600 is not worth buying at this time. I believe nVidia knows this. They don't want to phase our the DX9 just yet.
April 17, 2007 5:34:14 PM

Quote:
I guess my X1800XT is still a good card then.


Yeah, and except for the possible use of DX10, my X1900XTX will beat this new card. I'll just keep my old card longer, because I don't see a need to change to this 8600 card since there are now DX10 games out anyway. And if a DX10 game does come out, it will probalby require more power then the 8600 supplies.
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
April 17, 2007 5:43:30 PM

Quote:
Ape, why didn't Cleeve do this review? This is right up Cleeve's alley. I'm not saying that Mr. Polkowski made a poor review, but this sort of thing is Cleeve's cup of tea. <restatement of previous sentence>
-cm


Yeah I agree, I prefer Cleeve and Crashman's reviews, but it looks like Darren gets all the new stuff, and that Cleeve and Crash do the specialty reviews.

PS, I suspect Cleeve or Crashman will be doing the part-II PureVideo test mentioned in the middle of the review.
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
April 17, 2007 5:47:12 PM

Quote:
That's horrible... I really was expecting better performance... hmm I wonder what the new low end ATI cards can do? :twisted:


Yeah I don't think the X2600 series will be much different, I think they're both being held back by the 128bit memory.
Let's hope they've improved their memory management, but I don't expect any miracles.
April 17, 2007 5:50:37 PM

agreed, I also still enjoy my 1900xt512...


...honestly until we see dx10 in games and benchies it is really hard to tell if any of these 8 series are going to be good... right now the 8600 looks like not. ;) 
April 17, 2007 5:55:47 PM

Quote:
Yeah I don't think the X2600 series will be much different, I think they're both being held back by the 128bit memory.
Let's hope they've improved their memory management, but I don't expect any miracles.


This is what I was figuring.. hmm I guess we still have to wait and see lol
April 17, 2007 6:00:04 PM

Quote:
I guess my X1800XT is still a good card then.


According to this (Linky), and considering the 8600GTS is on par with the X1950Pro (give or take, it depends), I'd say your X1800XT is still holding it. 8)
April 17, 2007 6:02:52 PM

Quote:
Why would you guys even bother posting benchmarks for the 8600's if you don't use a DX10 O.S. to do them with???

This is moronic! period! take these results with a grain of salt... really, they are worthless without a Vista O.S.

If the 8600's blow with Vista just as bad... so be it, but you guys have offered us NOTHING in the way of information today!

:evil: 


dude,honestly, I would say that card would perform EVEN SLOWER on Vista..
like.. hint hint.. ALL OTHER CARDS!
April 17, 2007 6:03:27 PM

Here's another question I didn't see answered -- what is the power usage and heat impact of the new cards? Seems to me that they should be significantly cooler than the 8800 series, and draw far less power. The 80nm design should help with that, but it's not even mentioned.
April 17, 2007 6:04:11 PM

something i was thinking, maybe AMD/ATI is delaying their product to hold back the advance in technology, crazy yes, possible, of course.

for example, without competition from ati, nvidia will likely wait longer to release a much more advance card, and stick with the current line of products.

ATI is already behind on releasing a card, so if they can delay any more crazy technology, maybe they can catch back up.

it's crazy talk i know but i'm bored
April 17, 2007 6:08:33 PM

Ape, I ask you this because your knowledge is far greater than mine and I want an opinion from someone I know I can trust:

Would you consider an 8600GTS a good upgrade from a 6600GT?
It has DX10 for upcoming games (even though we don't know yet how it performs in that scenario), and, a serious difference in performance. Plus PureVideo and stuff I don't care much about, but it's nice to have.
April 17, 2007 6:14:04 PM

take this with a grain of salt, as i'm sure ape will have a much more intellectual response.

ask yourself, can you play all the games that you want to play right now. Obviously the higher the resolution the better. But on average, do you play all the games you have with good frame rates.

If so then why not just stick it out with your card, prices are only going to drop, plus with the introduction of DX10 games you can actually SEE how the DX10 cards perform

If you are not getting good frame rates, this is a great budget card if you want the DX10 capablities, and i think it would be a good upgrade from the 6600. (probably should compare the benchies)

However I'm not a guru, just my 2 cents :) 
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
April 17, 2007 6:14:14 PM

Quote:
Why would you guys even bother posting benchmarks for the 8600's if you don't use a DX10 O.S. to do them with???


For all those DX10 apps out there, what are they gonna test, the Cascades Demo?

Quote:
This is moronic! period! take these results with a grain of salt... really, they are worthless without a Vista O.S.


If the GF8800 is any example, the GF8600 likely performs better under WinXP, and the performance would be the same under vista.

And few gamers have made the jump to Vista, so the largest install base for this card is probably still the legions of XP gamers looking for DX9 performance, and will jump to Vista once there's actuall y a DX10 game out ther worth jumping for.

Quote:
If the 8600's blow with Vista just as bad... so be it, but you guys have offered us NOTHING in the way of information today!


Actually there's info there, still need more benchies IMO, you just need to know what it means, and obviously you don't. :roll:

BTW did you not read the part about the late arriving Vista drivers and parts?
April 17, 2007 6:19:47 PM

Actually, I'm beginning to drop the quality settings more and more as the days pass by... Rainbow Six Vegas was a serious PITA, I had to play it at 800x600 in medium-low settings...

I'm not "completely frustrated" with my loyal 6600GT, I can still play many many games because of it and it's PS 3.0 support, but it's showing it's age by now. :cry: 
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
April 17, 2007 6:20:42 PM

Quote:

Would you consider an 8600GTS a good upgrade from a 6600GT?


Yes, for $150-160, not much more.
I would suggest waiting a few weeks for the price drops, and then when it hit $159 then it's worthwhile, until then there's far better deals for $150 and less.

If this is a 2 years build then it's definitely the type of card you want, but wait for the X2600s to launch, you should know more about your long term options, the price of one or the other should drop, or drop more, and then start considering your decisions. But right now I see the GF8600GTS as the X1950GT equivalent ($130) and then tack on what you consider DX10 support worth (which I give a $20-30 value).

That's my thinking.
April 17, 2007 6:20:52 PM

Don't know what the Ape will say, but I think an 8600 would be a big jump in performance compared to your 6600. Sabenfox has a good reply in waiting for the DX10 games to come out and then choosing, but a way around this is to buy a card from EVGA and then use their 90 day upgrade policy to upgrade your card in a couple months without loosing the value of your investment.
April 17, 2007 6:23:42 PM

that is a good idea sailer, i didn't even think about the EVGA step up option :D 
April 17, 2007 6:30:02 PM

Prices are too high on those cards.

And who the f*ck would buy that from Best Buy? Some dumbazz teenager that doesn't read any tech review websites blowing his parents' money?

Just cough up the dough for an 8800 GTS 320. Or wait until AMD fare comes out to shake the prices a bit.
April 17, 2007 6:31:48 PM

Quote:
but a way around this is to buy a card from EVGA and then use their 90 day upgrade policy to upgrade your card in a couple months without loosing the value of your investment.


That's a good idea, but, I'm faaar from the Step-Up program (as "far" as "I'm in another continent"). Nevertheless, a good idea. :wink:
April 17, 2007 7:00:19 PM

Quote:

dude,honestly, I would say that card would perform EVEN SLOWER on Vista..
like.. hint hint.. ALL OTHER CARDS!


That's the point... we all have NO idea. This article was labeled "DX10 Cards for the masses" not "8600 Cards for the masses", so why base your entire testing process around DX 9.0c??

If you guys don't want to be "beta testers" for MS with Vista, than you would be stupid to go out and spend the money on a DX10 card anyhow. There are much better deals on 79xx cards to be had.

Let's see some comparsion marks with an 8600 on Vista and XP playing CoH with DX9, and CoH with the DX10 patch... than we can judge for ourselves.
April 17, 2007 7:03:18 PM

I really expected the 8600 series to have 64 Stream Processors. 32 processors and a 128 bit bus seems too lame for 2007 mid-range.
That might give me another reason to upgrade my X1950XT.
At least the 8800 series has a good 96/128 processors.
There is a big gap between the 8800 and 8600. Is this what Nvidia wanted?
April 17, 2007 7:06:15 PM

Quote:
There is a big gap between the 8800 and 8600. Is this what Nvidia wanted?


Maybe it is... Maybe they're just waiting to see what ATI has to offer, and then strike back with a 64-shader little beast. :D 
April 17, 2007 7:11:54 PM

Bla bla bla, these test are not showing the full power of 8600 series, the drivers are not optimized, yet. 249$ price tag.... :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 

Just bought a BFG 8800GTS OC a week ago and it's still one of best performance for the money we can get, i don't need 1600x1200 since my 17' LCD can't go higher but i enjoy 1280x1024 (edited thx sojrner to remind me that mistake) full detail and i'm sure it will perform well under Vista crap when it's fixed (SP1)
April 17, 2007 7:21:01 PM

Quote:
Bla bla bla, these test are not showing the full power of 8600 series, the drivers are not optimized, yet. 249$ price tag.... :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 

Just bought a BFG 8800GTS OC a week ago and it's still one of best performance for the money we can get, i don't need 1600x1200 since my 17' LCD can't go higher but i enjoy 1240x1024 full detail and i'm sure it will perform well under Vista crap when it's fixed (SP1)


you have got one seriously strange LCD man... you might want to have that looked at b/c you got gipped... missing 40960 pixels and you should have whoever sold that to you go find em.

;) 

8)
April 17, 2007 7:23:29 PM

The pricing of these poor cards show that Nvidia are simply taking advantage of ATI being worse than useless at this point - at least Nvidia actually get cards to market, the high price reflects that ATi have lost the plot over the last 6-8 months.


I bought a 7950GT from EVGA yesterday, i knew the 128bit bus would cripple the 8600 and it's price/performance ratio is total nonsense, i didn't even wait for benchies.

This way i get a better card than the 8600 for rental for 90 days, when DX10 games hit i can then afford a 8800GTS 640MB as i already have £150 towards it sitting in my PC!!!
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
April 17, 2007 7:27:34 PM

Quote:

That's the point... we all have NO idea. This article was labeled "DX10 Cards for the masses" not "8600 Cards for the masses", so why base your entire testing process around DX 9.0c??


It's still a DX10 card, that there are no DX10 apps to test it on other than nV demos means you test it on current DX9 titles. It's still a DX10 card, blame M$ and the Devs for poor DX10 implementation. So regardless of your semantics, DX9 is the area these cards currently compete in until there's actual titles in stores or patches on sites.

Quote:
If you guys don't want to be "beta testers" for MS with Vista, than you would be stupid to go out and spend the money on a DX10 card anyhow.


Except the GF8800 dominaes everything else in DX9 and will of course beat them in DX10 since it's not an option to the others, in this case it's a question of price/performance. Still fine to spend you money on this card, because it can play old, current and future titles, just not worth the current MSRP.

Quote:
There are much better deals on 79xx cards to be had.


Yes there are, but there's likttle point in getting them, because dollar for dollar right now the X19xx series outperform them.

Quote:
Let's see some comparsion marks with an 8600 on Vista and XP playing CoH with DX9, and CoH with the DX10 patch... than we can judge for ourselves.


You could if the official COH path were out of Alpha/Beta testing, it's still only 1.5 on THQ's site(at this time), 1.6 was just announced (still in dev/testing),and DX10 doesn't come until Patch 1.7.
FSX's patch isn't out of Beta yet either, so what mythic DX10 games are out there that are publically available?

Quite yer moaning and get a clue.
Informed criticism is valid, yours on the other hand is moaning about the state of the industry not this review.
April 17, 2007 7:57:20 PM

Quote:
Ape, I ask you this because your knowledge is far greater than mine and I want an opinion from someone I know I can trust:

Would you consider an 8600GTS a good upgrade from a 6600GT?
It has DX10 for upcoming games (even though we don't know yet how it performs in that scenario), and, a serious difference in performance. Plus PureVideo and stuff I don't care much about, but it's nice to have.



Actually, you are one of the few people that this might make sense. If you need a better graphics card, plan on moving to Vista and play games, and don't already have something more advanced than the 6600GT... why not. you pay a little premium over the DX9 comparable performing card.


For me... I have a $130 7900GS. If this is the future of budget cards, there is no Vista and no DX10 in my future for a VERY long time. It took me two years after 9600 pro to upgrade to 6600GT, and a year more to upgrade to a 7900GS, and I don't play anything that maxes out my adapter.

Looking over at overclockers.com, I see tha they reference a report that most people upgrade even less than I do. $130 was the most I ever spent on a graphics card!

So you offer me two DX10 cards that (for the most part) perform worse than what I have for a $200 price tag.... you get no sale! What would it take to make a sale to me? I need 50% more performance than a 7900GS in DX9 for under $150 OR a game that requires DX10 that will perform acceptably with a 22" WS monitor.

Thus, they neither offer a performance incentive to upgrade, nor is there a DX10 or other NEED to upgrade. IF ATI follows suit with their vaporware, I think the graphics card manufacturers are in short term DSHT waiting for the "must have" game that will drive sales.

Folks, we have been listening to this DX10 crapola for a YEAR. I am beginning to think that PC gaming and the video card era have now peaked. Maybe consoles are the future, after all.
April 17, 2007 8:10:51 PM

The consensus seems to be that these cards are lagging on price/performance. When AMD shows up with their midrange Nvidia will have to compete. In the interim if I were in their(Nvidia's), shoes I too would charge a premium for being the only DX10 game in town.

I have no doubt that these cards will sell both retail and OEM. Now the Dell's and HP's can advertise DX10 at lower price points.
April 17, 2007 8:13:46 PM

i think there is a nice little software nobody talks about in any review talk could reflect even just a litle the potential of cards: i t called Roboblitz.
April 17, 2007 8:30:42 PM

Quote:
Here's another question I didn't see answered -- what is the power usage and heat impact of the new cards? Seems to me that they should be significantly cooler than the 8800 series, and draw far less power. The 80nm design should help with that, but it's not even mentioned.


That I would very much like to see - these cards could be good in an HTPC.
April 17, 2007 8:31:20 PM

oups...still it would have been great doesn it?
April 17, 2007 8:39:29 PM

Quote:
hopefully they lower the price for the 8800gts 640mb soon or release a 8800/8900gs so i have a upgrade path....
If you have a SLI board you could always get a 2nd one (Assuming you have a 8800gts 320mb edition).
April 17, 2007 8:48:37 PM

i smell the FX fiasco just with a different name, 128bit memory thats bs my gf 6800xt ( yes i know its crap) has 256bit! so my point is, why even put it out, i mean the x1900pro is doing better and thats a generation older, i dont see where this is going but good luck, lets hope ati spit out a good card
!