Returning X1650XT for 8600 - good idea?

[JonnyDough]

Concerning poll - first vote is MINE for 8600GT. I think it's a good idea, but looking for input/opinions.

My HTPC...
The specs:
2.2Ghz P4
P4VM890 Socket 478 mobo from ASRock (PCI-E slot)
2 sticks of 256mb PC2700 DDR Ram (slow, but enough? - 512 total)
X1650XT - very recently purchased

The release: NVidia 8600 and 8500 cards

Possible outcomes: Return the X1650XT for an 8600GT or KEEP it.

Why swap?

Specifically: The card supports DX10 so it's more future-compatible, HDCP on both DVI ports, more powerful?, better for video encoding/decode, and last but not least...less CPU utilization.

Where did I read all this? http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2970&p=3

The article doesn't begin on that page, but that's where it mentions the most viable information. I also read the specs on a PCI-X1 slot TV tuner card recently that it required a CPU of 3.0ghz P4. My 2.2ghz P4 may not be enough, especially when it has to do so much.

The question: Do you think returning my X1650XT card at an approximate $25 loss to NewEgg is worth it? I'll be getting about $100 back give or take to be applied towards a new card.

Also, I should note: I have a cheapo 500w Ultra PSU in it. Not sure on rail specs, but I could look it up quick if anyone is curious. It's powering the X1650XT and two 7200rpm sata drives fine. The card that goes in this HTPC must be small, no oversized cards can fit in the case (i.e. anything that requires extra PCI-E power cord such as X1900's, 7900's, 8800's, etc.) Eventually, the old CPU/mobo/ram will be leaving the HTPC for something more powerful...perhaps my current socket 939 mATX PC components.

 

[logical2u]

Well...

You could also wait 7 days for ATI to release their DX10 series. This should drive down the prices and let you make a more balanced choice (Nvidia, however, should've gone for the killing blow long before this).

I'd say keep the X1650XT until we see the new ATI R6X0 series card (IE: HD2600, 2900.... I love my X1650 (Vista likes it too) and I wasn't impressed with the 8600 benches (They got beat out by an X1950pro, which is available for less then the 8600s.)

The HD2600 might be worth waiting for.

The 8600 might be cheap right now, but I personally don't think it's worth it. Wait for competition, as May should be a good month for price cuts.

 

[kaotao]

I don't think it's worth it. Initial benchies have been disappointing. Hang on to what you've got. Maybe wait to see what ATI's offerings are like. By that time, you can e-bay your X1650XT. You already stand to lose +-$25 by returning it. Not really worth it for an 8600 series IMO.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

If it were a straight swap, for sure.
I voted before reading the long story.

I'd say it's either/or depending on your value of the new features.

There are benefits, but for essentially $75 more to make the switch, I'd put that towards a better card when you need it. By the time the games come out you could likely get the GTS for around $100, and then also get the money for X1650.

I don't know, would've been great for a straight up swap, but payng $75 and having to return your old card, meh!

 

[Gary_Busey]

My opinion: By the time DirectX 10 games are really showing up, it'll be time for a new card anyways. Just save your money.

 

[JonnyDough]

Well, so far...thanks for the responses. I had intended to wait to purchase another card until AMD released their new lineup anyway. I just realized I may've made a mistake by buying the X1650XT. It's a great card don't get me wrong, and only $90 after that crappy NewEgg rebate, if I actually get it. Sending in rebates also nullifies any NewEgg RMA, so after that I'd have to deal directly with Sapphire. I also need a new card for my FX-60 system. While you guys talk about card prices going down, they could also go up with limited availability. I don't foresee that happening, but it has in the past sometimes. The benchmarks for the 8600 might not be spectacular, but what were the test systems? I doubt that the tests were done on an old 2.2ghz P4 like mine. My CPU is weak, and anything offloaded to the GPU would be a performance boost. My system did actually see a bit of a slowdown overall with the installment of my X1650.

I want to also point out that my HTPC isn't properly configured or finished to work with my projection TV yet, I was testing it out with the card and for some reason can't get it to look good (except when playing vids). The sound isn't configured right, and I don't as of yet have a good sound system for the tv. My Logitech 5300 speakers (THX 5.1) are hooked up to my FX-60 system. Stereo reciever, etc is on hold as well. I want to mention too that I can still use this HTPC (which has about 3000+ songs of lossless WMA music on it with my old CRT monitor and stuff, and it's got onboard video too so it functions as a regular PC without the card for now. I also have an old Jaton 64bit PCI card to use in VGA mode with my FX-60 system until I upgrade the video on that too. The HTPC does have a wireless G card though that works with my DGL-4300 router. Money's gone a bit tight lately with my GF between jobs and me @ business college, but she'll be raking in dough again shortly. I'm constantly buying/selling parts and improving slightly by doing so for nothing, cheap, or a small return.

It really is a $75 (upgrade?) to the 8600GT. I could go for the 8600GTS too (worth the $50?) and don't forget that this is likely to end up with an X2 4800+ or Opty 180/185 (FX-60?) socket 939 eventually. Right now my LAN system is an FX-55 (2.6 single core) with an X1950GT. Prolly sell the X1950GT later on. Got it for $150 or so and so far am not impressed. The X1900 AIW card I had in my system scored better on 3DMark 05 and 06 which I mentioned in other posts. Still waiting on better drivers for it. I'm pretty annoyed that it's not performing better than the AIW card, since it's clocked higher. (Also was doing worse using fraps in Oblivion).

 

[JonnyDough]

My opinion: By the time DirectX 10 games are really showing up, it'll be time for a new card anyways. Just save your money.

Nice Pentium 4 3.0. :roll:

This isn't a gaming PC, I have two other comps for that.
This is for an HTPC, so video encoding, media center response times, and so on is more the priority here. HDCP, etc...u know. I don't care about DX10 much, just want the possibility to make the card more future-relative. Resale value, use in another PC someday for slower DX10 games...etc.

 

[JonnyDough]

http://www.sparco.com/cgi-bin/wfind2?sparco_part_number=A27M467

Total would be $154.81 shipped. But I'd have to wait a few weeks to get it. Someone have links to benchies? Besides, drivers are still new for it, no? ATI's drivers aren't mature for months...and they don't even have Vista drivers for the 8600's yet...how "final" could those benchies be?

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

While you guys talk about card prices going down, they could also go up with limited availability. I don't foresee that happening, but it has in the past sometimes.

Not when a card launched into a price market is dominated by the current owners of that segment. The GF8600GT (edted accidentally put GTS in this portion) is not going to stay above $150 when the X1950GT destroys it at $130, heck the GTS is going to be coming down to where most of the GT cards are currently selling. There is no way that the GT nor GTS will go up in price without some further magic drivers, or the $150 dollar X1950Pro and $190 X1950XTs going away. There is no way these new cards are selling for the same prices next tuesday as they are today even.

My CPU is weak, and anything offloaded to the GPU would be a performance boost.

Only if you're watching BluRay, HD-DVD or H.264 media, not for playing games. The CPU offloading is about video playback, not gaming.

My system did actually see a bit of a slowdown overall with the installment of my X1650.

Doubtful if it was an upgrade, but could happen, especially if you didn't clean out old drivers. Also you need to make sure you actually have video acceleration enabled on the X1650, just like the GF7 series they default to some feature being off.

I want to also point out that my HTPC isn't properly configured or finished to work with my projection TV yet,

If you're focus is an HTPC, then why you wouldn't wait for the HTPC focus X2600s is my biggest question.

It really is a $75 (upgrade?) to the 8600GT. I could go for the 8600GTS too (worth the $50?)[/quote]

Even worse to spend $125 more and return your X1650XT, just to get the GTS. That's alot of coin for what amount to a noticeable, but still mild upgrade.

Right now my LAN system is an FX-55 (2.6 single core) with an X1950GT.

And likely that X1900GT will game about as well as the GF8600GT you're considering, so for the current price, it's not worth it. Wait for them to come down in price and make the difference less. Don't cash the mail in Rebate and wait it out for the price to drop.

 

[Gary_Busey]

My opinion: By the time DirectX 10 games are really showing up, it'll be time for a new card anyways. Just save your money.

Nice Pentium 4 3.0. :roll:
More like JonnyDouche. So I can't afford to buy a new processor, or waste money on changing out graphics cards so I can say I have a DirectX10 card. Making fun of someone because they don't have the latest technology is pretty fucking lame. What are you, 12?

 

[kaotao]

Nice Pentium 4 3.0. :roll:

That's a bit uncalled for. Please grow up.

 

[desidude006]

wait for more benchmarks to come out and also wait to see what ati's got up its sleeves. Ati's line up should be coming out soon.

 

[JonnyDough]

Wow. It wasn't an insult...LOL Who's immature now? I have a 2.2 and stated that a 3.0 was necessary for the tv tuner card I wanted...mature of you to take it the way you want so you can rip on ME. Whew. It shows the lack of maturity and dramatic tendencies of people on this forum I think. I came here openly seeking advice...
In fact, the E states to me it's the rohs version CPU, which would do nicely as well in my HTPC since I don't plan on OCing. I was gonna ask that if he ever planned to sell his chip I might be interested. I was looking at the 2.8's we in the systems at college, but when I asked our administrator Dave about them, he said I can't get a hold of one. You see how things can be misconstrewn online? That's why you kiddies really need to learn not be so dramatic. Take everything online with a grain of salt.

Now...
I realize that the only benefit to swapping to the 8600 is for HD DVD's and shader-related gaming which I won't be doing on the system anyway probably. It's really more of a backup system for LAN parties at my place. Most of the advice you guys are giving me is on par with my current views and plans. I'm going to wait before purchasing another card. The X1650XT was more of a sporadic BDay present. It was the cheapest HDCP card with the specs I was happy with. And it was $90 after rebate. I wasn't up on the release of the 8600's until I checked out Tom's today. I've been busy with school and dealing with my FX-60 system motherboard issues. My A8N32-SLI Deluxe board failed on me, and the replacement didn't work. I've got finals, and got back into playing one of my old favorite games again recently. With the money issues, and my birthday etc...I've been busy. So forgive me for not being up on what's happening, these forums are NOT my life. That's directed to people who do nothing but neglect your kids, homework, and further advancement, or those who are so rich they think they're God's gift to the world and assume that everyone else is assinine. You = Anyone else. It's like blaming global warming on an individual or group. We're all f'n guilty consumers who drive gas guzzlers and eat heavily packaged junk food. Get over yourselves. I'm a di(k just like you are. Stay on topic eh?

 

[JonnyDough]

Good advice GrapeApe, I agree. I've decided to run the system on it's onboard vid for awhile, as it's not complete to work with my tv yet the way I want anyway. My little X1950GT gaming machine is going to stay as my gaming machine for awhile, and my big lug FX-60 machine is going to just sit I guess or run with that crappy vid card. It's a fast system, but has no graphics yet. The bad thing is I'm running XP Pro x64 and that old PCI video card doesn't have drivers beyond the standard VGA. I might even sell off the system once I get the parts working right, and then use the cash towards a Core2 or something. Those FX-60's are "worth" about twice what I paid for mine. I might sell my FX-55 instead and put the FX-60 in my mATX box. Bought my FX-55 for $120 and they're currently going for over $300. Prices are always dropping on hardware, but with some parts I actually sell them for a lot more than what I paid for em and make a profit. It evens out though with the money I lose on shipping and headaches. Still fun to tinker.

 

[kaotao]

How else is one supposed to take this..?

Nice Pentium 4 3.0. :roll:

I simple "Sorry, I didn't mean it that way", would suffice.

 

[crazypyro]

Best to wait to see what the x2600 HD's can do, especially since its for an HTCP, might as well aim for a media centric card with HDMI support from the box and built in Blu-Ray HD-DVD decoders.

If it comes out costing too much or flops horribly you didn't lose out on anything like you would've if you bought the 8600 and found out the x2600 utterly demolishs it.

and while we're on subject of price, its rumored the x2300 HD will retail between $50-$70, so that should drop the x2600 right around $150-$175 give or take.

 

[Opterondo]

I would return the X1650XT for and X1950PRO or buy a 8800GTS or better.

 

[baligavinod]

My opinion: By the time DirectX 10 games are really showing up, it'll be time for a new card anyways. Just save your money.

i agree with this

 

[JonnyDough]

I would return the X1650XT for and X1950PRO or buy a 8800GTS or better.

An X1950Pro won't fit in the case, as I mentioned. My X1900AIW card was too large. The case is already quite deep.

My opinion: By the time DirectX 10 games are really showing up, it'll be time for a new card anyways. Just save your money.

i agree with this

My old socket 478 isn't going to be running Vista anytime soon...DX10 doesn't matter, it's just that it'd be nice to have it in case I want to upgrade or swap out my HTPC with the system's I have currently...

 

[JonnyDough]

It's 14/14 on the poll. I'm wondering how many ATI/AMD fans are out there, or maybe some of u work for them. BTW, NewEgg will probably actually MAKE money on the deal of me returning it....so they don't care.

My UPS shipping tag was about $7 or $8 through NewEgg's return service. About the same as it costs me down at the USPS, but UPS is closer. ;-)

 

[jamesgoddard]

My old socket 478 isn't going to be running Vista anytime soon...DX10 doesn't matter, it's just that it'd be nice to have it in case I want to upgrade or swap out my HTPC with the system's I have currently...

Keep the x1650xt for sure, if you are not going to VIsta, there is no reason to get a 8600GT in it's place, if anything the Nvidia card will perform a little bit worse (but it's close)

 

[JonnyDough]

In case anyone was wondering, I decided to keep it afterall.

 

[trooper1947]

Concerning poll - first vote is MINE for 8600GT. I think it's a good idea, but looking for input/opinions.

My HTPC...
The specs:
2.2Ghz P4
P4VM890 Socket 478 mobo from ASRock (PCI-E slot)
2 sticks of 256mb PC2700 DDR Ram (slow, but enough? - 512 total)
X1650XT - very recently purchased

The release: NVidia 8600 and 8500 cards

Possible outcomes: Return the X1650XT for an 8600GT or KEEP it.

Return it .... it's last decade's electronics . How long have you got to return ? If you don't you're gonna be stuck with DX9 and a video card worth $20.00 if you're lucky enough to be able to sell one at all when all programming for new games and etc. go DX10 . The overclocked GT will eat it alive .

Why swap?

Specifically: The card supports DX10 so it's more future-compatible, HDCP on both DVI ports, more powerful?, better for video encoding/decode, and last but not least...less CPU utilization.

Where did I read all this? http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2970&p=3

The article doesn't begin on that page, but that's where it mentions the most viable information. I also read the specs on a PCI-X1 slot TV tuner card recently that it required a CPU of 3.0ghz P4. My 2.2ghz P4 may not be enough, especially when it has to do so much.

The question: Do you think returning my X1650XT card at an approximate $25 loss to NewEgg is worth it? I'll be getting about $100 back give or take to be applied towards a new card.

Also, I should note: I have a cheapo 500w Ultra PSU in it. Not sure on rail specs, but I could look it up quick if anyone is curious. It's powering the X1650XT and two 7200rpm sata drives fine. The card that goes in this HTPC must be small, no oversized cards can fit in the case (i.e. anything that requires extra PCI-E power cord such as X1900's, 7900's, 8800's, etc.) Eventually, the old CPU/mobo/ram will be leaving the HTPC for something more powerful...perhaps my current socket 939 mATX PC components.

 

[JonnyDough]

Thanks for the recap? If the moderator wants to close the thread they may...