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Got an 8800 GTS and def not getting what I payed for...

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April 17, 2007 9:00:13 PM

Ok so I have a 8800 GTS, its fresh. The reason why I think something is up is because I have a friend of mine who has a 7900 GS. He gets more FPS then I. I'm calling bs on this. My specs are Nvidia 8800 GTS, 2 Gigs Ram, AMD AThlon 3200+ 2.0 Ghz. He has a gig less of ram and his CPU runs at 2.1...I highly doubt that 900 Megahurtz is the problem. I have the latest drivers installed and all of that fun stuff.

Does anyone have an idea why this is?

More about : 8800 gts def payed

April 17, 2007 9:43:08 PM

cpu is bottlenecking the graphics card.
April 17, 2007 9:46:39 PM

couldnt agree more, its your cpu thats bottlenecking it.
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April 17, 2007 10:19:43 PM

Yeah but by that much? I doubt it
April 17, 2007 11:17:20 PM

yea, by that much 8)
April 17, 2007 11:23:23 PM

:arrow: What kind of CPU does your pal have?
April 17, 2007 11:26:31 PM

I'm guessing it's a Pentium 4, those have the "Definitive" clock speeds as their labels.

Another possibility is motherboard or power supply slowing you down due to bad power/bad interface.
April 17, 2007 11:38:58 PM

Quote:
cpu is bottlenecking the graphics card.

Maybe so, but a 8800GTS should still get better FPPs than a 7900GS.

@ OP

Have you checked for viruses lately? Install latest drivers, while wiping out previous drivers? Try closing background tasks, and eliminating useless services.
April 17, 2007 11:43:34 PM

It shouldn't be a bottlenecking problem that the other responders have said. They do not know what they are talking about. Make sure that you have the latest drivers and that your previous drivers were uninstalled correctly. Then, if that doesn't help your problem is elsewhere.
April 17, 2007 11:44:38 PM

Quote:
cpu is bottlenecking the graphics card.

You sir, are only kind of correct, but barely.
April 17, 2007 11:49:40 PM

Is it a 320mb model?
a b U Graphics card
April 17, 2007 11:52:46 PM

the 8800 can bottleneck a 3200 cpu but not like some are saying.

your cpu is not the problem.
a b U Graphics card
April 17, 2007 11:56:19 PM

Quote:
Maybe so, but a 8800GTS should still get better FPPs than a 7900GS.


Exactly :lol:  Like using a 7900gs and switching to an 8800 gts is gonna
make his sys run slower 8O :lol:  .

@ O.P. one thing that could actually do something like i just said
would/could be a psu problem.
April 17, 2007 11:56:53 PM

dude...
your cpu is seriously restricting the performance of your 8800

several things
1)athlon 3200+ ; u ned at a minimum 3.2ghz P4/E6300/3800 X2 to run a 8800 at full potential. a 3200+ with an 880 is like trying to watch 1080 HD video on a 13" black and white TV.

2)if your motherboard is supporting a 3200+, my guess is, its not very recent, so laggy/not so great pci-e bus, ram slower than ddr400 etc.

3)try benchmarking agenst him in different games. games can be optimized for different games.
a b U Graphics card
April 18, 2007 12:00:55 AM

Quote:
dude...
your cpu is seriously restricting the performance of your 8800


Uhm no not neccesarilly.
April 18, 2007 12:01:56 AM

Quote:
1)athlon 3200+ ; u ned at a minimum 3.2ghz P4

A 3200+ is better than a 3.4GHz P4. Any day.
April 18, 2007 12:06:05 AM

Ignore the crowd saying that it's a CPU bottlenecking issue; even if your friend had a X6800 with a 7900GS, you should still be getting better framerates with your 8800GTS. What kind of powersupply do you have, did you use driver cleaner before removing your old card, and what drivers are you using now?
April 18, 2007 12:08:49 AM

Quote:
Ignore the crowd saying that it's a CPU bottlenecking issue; even if your friend had a X6800 with a 7900GS, you should still be getting better framerates with your 8800GTS. What kind of powersupply do you have, did you use driver cleaner before removing your old card, and what drivers are you using now?


Seconded.
a b U Graphics card
April 18, 2007 12:10:50 AM

First off, check the charts : http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&m... Youll see 100% advantage for a gts over the gs. The cpu maybe bottlenecking the gpu, maybe by 2 to 3 fps, being that the cpu's are so close in efficiancy. I think its dirty drivers as well, maybe heat issues or psu. The cpu bottleneck IF there is one would be miniscule
a b U Graphics card
April 18, 2007 12:11:49 AM

Quote:
2)if your motherboard is supporting a 3200+, my guess is, its not very recent, so laggy/not so great pci-e bus, ram slower than ddr400 etc.


If you are talking a pci-e bus of x8 and x16? Well there is no noticiable
difference.(i have both) and sli with both.

and the ddr400 memory thing, well s939 and am2 proved that too.
Agian no real difference.
a b U Graphics card
April 18, 2007 12:13:21 AM

It could be a psu problem.

Try to give us more info.
April 18, 2007 12:39:16 AM

It could be several things causing the issue.


If you are running at a low resolution it could very well be your CPU bottlenecking.


If you are using an older Motherboard your PCIE slot could be limiting the bandwidth


If you are using an older power supply it might not have enough juice to run everything properly.




Without more information its impossible to say. Although If I had to guess i'd go with the first one, that you are running on a lower resolution and getting lower frams because of your CPU.
April 18, 2007 12:48:06 AM

Most of these guys don't have a clue. Too much reading, too little hands-on.

I'll give you ten to one your problem is your driver. Did you uninstall your old driver, or did you just load this one on top of it? Or did you even load new drivers? It really matters.
April 18, 2007 12:57:34 AM

Its your cpu for sure. That, or your resolution is higher than your friends.

You people saying its NOT the CPU, ARE DEAD WRONG.

Example. I have a 1900xt. At first I had an athlon +3200 (single core, 512meg cache, oc'ed to 2.4ghz). In CS:Source on 1280x960, my FPS was dipping into the low 20's in intense gunfights. Since then, I've upgraded to an opteron 165 (dual core, 2meg cache, oc'ed to 3.0 ghz), and my frames NEVER dip below the mid 40's. So my minimum frames essentially doubled since I upgraded.

STILL THINK YOU'RE NOT BOTTLENECKED BY YOUR CPU???

(and keep in mind the source engine doesn't even take advatage of dual core cpus!!!)
April 18, 2007 1:02:47 AM

Quote:
Ignore the crowd saying that it's a CPU bottlenecking issue; even if your friend had a X6800 with a 7900GS, you should still be getting better framerates with your 8800GTS. What kind of powersupply do you have, did you use driver cleaner before removing your old card, and what drivers are you using now?


Seconded.

Thirded... And also... even in 8x a 8800GTS will still outrun a 7900GS.
You should post your PSU specs or brand and name...

But like the previous poster... I bet its a driver issue..
April 18, 2007 1:15:11 AM

An anecdotal "He gets more FPS " is not a good measuring stick. This is where synthetic benches are useful. Run 3dmark06 and see where you sit compared to similar systems before assuming there is a problem.
a b U Graphics card
April 18, 2007 1:19:26 AM

Quote:
Its your cpu for sure. That, or your resolution is higher than your friends.

You people saying its NOT the CPU, ARE DEAD WRONG.

Example. I have a 1900xt. At first I had an athlon +3200 (single core, 512meg cache, oc'ed to 2.4ghz). In CS:Source on 1280x960, my FPS was dipping into the low 20's in intense gunfights. Since then, I've upgraded to an opteron 165 (dual core, 2meg cache, oc'ed to 3.0 ghz), and my frames NEVER dip below the mid 40's. So my minimum frames essentially doubled since I upgraded.

STILL THINK YOU'RE NOT BOTTLENECKED BY YOUR CPU???

(and keep in mind the source engine doesn't even take advatage of dual core cpus!!!)


It is possiable but you cant be for sure.
he could have a 250watt psu for all you or i know.
a driver problem a faulty memstick or mobo? :roll:

Or a faulty new 8800.
remember just because its new doesnt mean its good. :wink:
April 18, 2007 1:33:22 AM

post more system specs... we need more information

what game are you playing that he gets more FPS? maybe the game IS cpu bound and not graphics bound, which might say why you are getting lower fps because your cpu is slower.... counter strike source for example is very cpu bound so any increase in clockspeed will improve fps. It is not graphics heavy so that could explain why he gets more fps

maybe he has a core2duo and you only have a 3200+..... that would seriously give him more fps even if you have a better gfx card, except in say oblivion


My guess is that his processor is better than yours, it cant be a pentium 4 because at 2.1 he would seriously be running games like sh1t

maybe he has a dual core? he could have the x2 4000+ or could have OC to those speeds. Even if he has a single core he might have a core2solo and even at 2.1 c2 pwns most current amd processors.

If you guys are playing a game that supports multicore like stalker then you would be at a disadvantage if he has a dual core even though the game is graphics heavy because your cpu is weak


basically what im saying is that he might be getting more fps because the fps you get in the game you mentioned might be determined by how fast your cpu is, and not how good your gfx card is.
April 18, 2007 1:46:50 AM

It's not the CPU. There are a lot of articles that show the 3000+ keeping up with other CPU's at higher resolutions just fine. People who say it's the CPU don't know what they are talking about. Take it from someone who owned a 4000+ and went to a core2duo 3ghz. Hardly any fps increase. CPU bottlenecking only happens in really low res that no one plays in anyway.
April 18, 2007 1:51:15 AM

Quote:
It's not the CPU. There are a lot of articles that show the 3000+ keeping up with other CPU's at higher resolutions just fine. People who say it's the CPU don't know what they are talking about. Take it from someone who owned a 4000+ and went to a core2duo 3ghz. Hardly any fps increase. CPU bottlenecking only happens in really low res that no one plays in anyway.



true, but at that point the graphics card is bottlenecking the cpu...... so if you have a shit card but a good cpu you are still going to get crappy fps unless the game isnt graphics bound

if you went from a 4000+ to a c2d 3ghz and you are only running say a 7600gt(i dont know what you have so sry for the assumption).... you wont see huge improvements in fps in games like oblivion
a c 268 U Graphics card
April 18, 2007 2:01:16 AM

Did you attach the extra power to the card from the PSU? I don't know if it will run at all without it but check.
April 18, 2007 2:19:22 AM

Wow so many questions.

First I just reinstalled drivers and cleared off the old ones.

My PSU is a 500 watt

At the moment I'm trying it out on DOW: Dark Crusade. I did run a 3dmark06 test and will run another right now to see if anything has changed.
April 18, 2007 2:27:06 AM

Well seems as though my drivers are installed right it must be my CPU. I did a 3dmark06 test and it was the same as before. During the second test I got under 20 FPS.
April 18, 2007 2:37:57 AM

A 3200+ would not hinder an 8800 in 3dmark06 graphics test to below 20FPS... It should be waaayyy higher.. drivers can be a tricky thing.. maybe try driver cleaner or something.. Im no expert on drivers though, maybe someone else has more experience with driver problems... good luck! Just gotta keep trouble shooting.. In rare cases the card could actually be the problem.. but I bet not
April 18, 2007 2:51:54 AM

I just searched Athlon64, 1980-2020 mhz with 8800gts on futuremark. There were three tests to compare to. the results on test 2 (Firefly forest) were:
20.941
23.981
24.26

And for all those who suggested cpu bottleneck the results for a core2 at 3000 mhz are:

Between 38 and 40.

Without some big debate about synthetic vs. real world this will save the OP from trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. Synthetics are useful for tuning and comparing.
April 18, 2007 2:52:20 AM

Quote:
Yeah but by that much? I doubt it


You ARE CPU BOTTLENECKED for sure without a doubt. I bought a $400 6800GT Agp and couldn't tell hardly a difference between it and my $100 Ti4200 Agp. Get an Brisbane X2-3800+ and OC to fix your problem. Try loading newest chipset drivers, video card drivers, and check the BIOS settings also.

Cheap power supplies where 500w = 250w can cause slowness; CoolMAX and Antec are good midrange brands.
April 18, 2007 2:58:24 AM

Hmm... Well He didn't give a Score.. he gave an actual FPS... and my 7900GT runs firefly at 20 or a little under.. Yeah yeah.. I have a 4600 X2 and he has a 3200+.. but still.... he should be higher... Try some games for sure.. don't just rely on 3dmark..
April 18, 2007 3:04:34 AM

Quote:
Hmm... Well He didn't give a Score.. he gave an actual FPS... and my 7900GT runs firefly at 20 or a little under.. Yeah yeah.. I have a 4600 X2 and he has a 3200+.. but still.... he should be higher... Try some games for sure.. don't just rely on 3dmark..


but doesnt 3dmark take advantage of dual core?

its possible that your x2 could be compensating for the limitations of your gfx card
April 18, 2007 3:10:42 AM

Looking at more futuremark results he is definitely CPU bottlenecked. Single core athlons with an 8800gts start holding their own at about 2600mhz. On that one test going from 2000 to 2600 adds about 1/3 more FPS.
CPU bottleneck is often overstated on these forums but there is a point where a CPU is too slow. With a 2000mhz cpu his system is unbalanced right now.
a b U Graphics card
April 18, 2007 3:30:25 AM

I dont want the op to go and buy something he doesnt really need. Check out slashzapper and his specs. Seeme its working for him. To the OP Ill get some info from slashzapper and post....
a b U Graphics card
April 18, 2007 3:38:56 AM

Check out this link!!!! : http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?nam... He has the same setup as you, and hes raving about his card. You may have a SLIGHT cpu bottleneck, but this isnt whats causing your problems!!! Have you completely removed your drivers? Use driver cleaner to do so. It could be your card, and yes, check the temps, and what brand psu? Heres a post from another thread AFTER he figured out his problem
Quote:
have to agree with you on this one. A high end graphic card needs all the juice it can get or it under clocks itself thus giving bad performance.


My 8800 was operating like crap , getting a Corsair HX 620 ,50a power supply , noticeable difference in performance almost day and night specially when putting on AA and AF TO HIGH Levels.

Fear showed a considerable improvement

So for the record ROBX2 i agree with your statement

Zapper
It was his psu. Seems the 88gts may underclock when underpowered
April 18, 2007 4:14:31 AM

Quote:
dude...
your cpu is seriously restricting the performance of your 8800

several things
1)athlon 3200+ ; u ned at a minimum 3.2ghz P4/E6300/3800 X2 to run a 8800 at full potential. a 3200+ with an 880 is like trying to watch 1080 HD video on a 13" black and white TV.

2)if your motherboard is supporting a 3200+, my guess is, its not very recent, so laggy/not so great pci-e bus, ram slower than ddr400 etc.

3)try benchmarking agenst him in different games. games can be optimized for different games.


My x2 3800 bottlenecks my vid card at anything under 2.6ghz, so thats the end of that arguement...
April 18, 2007 4:14:50 AM

i really dont think its his psu..... unless he has less than a 400 watt or something because an x2 4800+ OC to 2.9ghz 1.375v with an 8800gts requires 400 watts at 100% load (my system basically)

So knowing that, a 3200 not OC cant pull that much power paired with an 8800gts <= 400 watt


which it doesnt, max it requires 355 watts assuming he only has 1 cdrom drive, 1 hdd, a sound card 4 120mm fans and 1 80mm fan


http://www.extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine : best site ever for estimating psu needs
April 18, 2007 4:16:21 AM

A 500 watt power supply is not "underpowered" for an 8800. The system doesn't slow down when underpowered, it crashes. Computers are logical, all ones and zeros. If it fails to make a (1) the system bluescreens, it doesn't get "lazy.'

A major slowdown can be caused by the soundcard. For me Oblivion runs fine on either of my systems with Realtek onboard or a Soundblaster, but slows to a crawl using an M-audio card for primary audio.
April 18, 2007 4:40:10 AM

Quote:
Hmm... Well He didn't give a Score.. he gave an actual FPS... and my 7900GT runs firefly at 20 or a little under.. Yeah yeah.. I have a 4600 X2 and he has a 3200+.. but still.... he should be higher... Try some games for sure.. don't just rely on 3dmark..


but doesnt 3dmark take advantage of dual core?

its possible that your x2 could be compensating for the limitations of your gfx card

Not sure about taking advantage of a dual core.. but it is a graphics test not a cpu test.. it is more graphics card intensive than cpu.. I'll run it and see how much cpu it uses in 3dmark06.. and tell my fps.. my guess is that the cpu will only be lightly taxed, lightly enough that a 3200+ would take it well..
a b U Graphics card
April 18, 2007 5:15:45 AM

That sounds good and all , but Im just going by alot of posts Ive read here about the 88gts and using those posts as well, and after upgrading their psu's the problems stopped. Everyone came out with the cpu bottleneck, but as some senior posters have stated over and over, it isnt the cpu. At least 2 posters have solved their problems by7 getting a better psu. Having 450 watts or even 500 doesnt mean a thing, if its a crap over hyped psu, like the kind you get with a case when you buy a new one. It could say its 500 watts when it is really more like 400, and then those watts may be applied to the 3.3 volt or in the case of an older psu it could be applied mainly on the 5 volt. Hardware, unfortunately isnt just i/o, it requires wattage, and can be a problem, still supplying i/o but since the hardware may be underpowered it may run slower, thus giving slower i/o.
April 18, 2007 5:20:38 AM

I am new to building computers, but I am almost sure its not just about watts but also about amps. So how many amps are on the +12v rail(s)?
Also I am unsure of how many amps are required for the 8800gts, but im almost sure that knowing the amps can help with eliminating your problem.
a b U Graphics card
April 18, 2007 5:21:27 AM

Having said all that about psu's, which I pointed out mainly to show a more likely cause, I still as Ive said before, believe its a driver issue
a b U Graphics card
April 18, 2007 5:26:34 AM

You are right. Even tho a system may say it has 480 watts for the 12 volt rails, which works out to 40 amps, comboned, when it actually has to use full amps, it may be something more like 32 Amps combined for the 12 volt rails. While one rail may be able to deliver 240 watts, or both and seperate times, used together at peak output, they can only actually output 32amps or 384 watts .....edited to correct my math
April 18, 2007 5:44:35 AM

I was just about to buy 8800 gts thank god u post this thread
!