Bye Bye Tape, Hello 5.3TB eSATA

[bgerber]

With hard disk prices dropping fast, disk based backup solutions are the next big thing. Check out what Highly Reliable Systems has done for the small business customer needing quick and easy backups.

 

[thelostchild]

Since the drives are hot swappable and keyed, I can see this removable disk system being used in military or other secured facilities that lock up their media at night.

somehow I could see the military using something much more secure than this

 

[jinjuku]

For the write up. I have been doing disk based vs tape for years with most of my customers. Used the storecase product until they were sold. Absolutely blows tape out of the water in price and performance.

Is there any tape out there comming close to 750GB/1 Terrabyte w/o compression?

 

[sandmanwn]

Is there any tape out there comming close to 750GB/1 Terrabyte w/o compression?

http://www.sunstarco.com/Tape%20Drives/Quantum%20ATL/Quantum_DLT_S4.htm
800GB native, 1.6TB compressed.

 

[icthy]

Seems like tapes have the advantage that you can more readily save a snapshot of data from a particular time (it's easier to take a tape out of circulation than a disc). Also it seems like one is less likely to store a hard drive off.

 

[yyrkoon]

$89.98 4x SATA Multilane kit - http://www.cooldrives.com/multilane-adapter-kit.html
$69.99 Mapower 4x5.25" bay case with PSU - http://www.censuspc.com/product-pr-640.html
$99.98 4in3 hotswap bay cage - http://www.cooldrives.com/sainhosaraca.html
$992 4x Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3750640AS 750GB - http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=101447&prodlist=froogle

Total: $1251.95

Add another $100 for shipping, and the SATA cables I seem to have forgotten, also needs a controller, but you could use motherboard onboard controller/ports, buy a cheap SATA controller, or a combination of the above. . . . Double the cost for more storage than the reviewed hardware, with much better performance, for around half the cost.

You can configure 3 TB single, JBOD, or 2.25TB if you opt for RAID5, and yes if the controller used supports RAID, so does this setup, this means any form of RAID. No need for drivers(specificaly for the hardware I have listed that is), connect everything properly, and away you go.

You can go cheaper, for one I only listed 3 star 'froogle' or better rated sites, or sites I have dealt with in the past (I have dealt with all, and only coolgear does not have a 3 star + froogle rating, but they have been in business for years . . .). Secondly, you can buy PortMultiplier equipment, get a 5in3 Bay cage, but RAID here would only be done using software (hardware assisted, or fakeRAID, for you linux folks). Also, Obviously if you are a tinkerer, like most of us true enthusiasts are, you could even gut a 3U rack, drop in some removable racks, toss in two Multilane 'converters' and go with 8 drives, the possibilities are endless.

Overall, I would have to say, that given the loads of equipment availible now days, and the endless possibilities, this product is truely un-inspirering. Enough said.

[EDIT]

You could even use a good SAS controller, with external Infiniband connectors, and save money over this reviewed hardware. It is plain sad, that the people who 'developed' said hardware lack any form of true vision.

 

[Mattnux]

So an employee removes a HDD from the NAS at the end of every day and takes it offsite... Are these enclosures going to last with lots of removals and reinserts?

I know that in the past that actual drive connectors were pretty flimsy. But no more? This could be very promising

Woohoo!

 

[tscholz]

With a price tag of $5482, you might as well buy a 14-15 SAS disk enclosure.

But in my opinion, disk backup will never be a real alternative to tape backup. Disks are not designed to be moved around, and do break quite easily. That said, tapes are not that rock solid either. They usually have no problems keeping their integrity for 5 years, which should be more than enough for backup. If used for archiving (10+ years), they should be transfered to new tapes over time, since they do break down.

Now, if someone were to build an reinforced disk, with better EM shielding and such, they might be a good alternative.

 

[yyrkoon]

But in my opinion, disk backup will never be a real alternative to tape backup. Disks are not designed to be moved around, and do break quite easily. That said, tapes are not that rock solid either. They usually have no problems keeping their integrity for 5 years, which should be more than enough for backup. If used for archiving (10+ years), they should be transfered to new tapes over time, since they do break down.

HDDs are not any less sturdy than tape. Now if you drop one with no protection onto a concrete floor (as I have done myself accidentally), then yeah, sure. As for longevity, short term, if you use the media frequently, I am willing to bet a HDD would last much longer, long term, I do not know, but I have a few HDDs older than 10 years old each (one that is the same exact drive as the one I dropped, and still functional), and an MFM 80MB HDD that is approaching 14 years old now. Maybe I just take good care of my HDDs, or maybe I am lucky ? Who is to say 100%, but something has to be up, if I have ~30 HDDs all still functional, ranging from 1-13 years old . . . Not that I think using most of them are worth the trouble using, since most are outdated, and tiny comparred to modern standards.

Anyhow, I preffer Optical to tape any day of the week, you just need to take good care of your media, but storing any data on one medium alone, is asking for trouble, IF your data is that important.

 

[Casper42]

With a price tag of $5482, you might as well buy a 14-15 SAS disk enclosure.

Amen

I think this is a good idea, but the product they chose to review can be built using normal parts for alot less.

Look Familiar? Oh look, $600 cheaper too.

Or as you said, go with a higher capacity:
http://www.meritline.com/twelve-sata-bay-4u-rackmount-esata-host-connection.html
http://www.directron.com/ds1220.html

As for someone who mentioned that removing the disks and taking them home isnt a good idea, I completely agree. I think the reviewer pulled this idea our of his rear as the main reason for these drives being hot swap is so you can replace them when they fail without taking down the entire unit.
This type of backup is commonly referred to as "Near-line" storage. Meaning you dont keep things on your network on here that are accessed frequently, but you can easily dump data and backups over here as a second copy of your important data.

For offsite storage, tape or differential WAN backups (aka Snapshots) is more realistic.


Again, good idea, bad pricing on this product.

 

[bharkol1]

Disk is great for backups only if it isn't for disaster planning. We use both tape and disk. Disk is usually used to improve return to operation (rto) times because data restores so much faster from disk. We use this mostly for db and email. Most people aren't worried about backup times because any recent tape technology works well 90% of the time considering backup window/data. The reviewer brings up valid concerns with the single power supply and limited software. Disk was supposed to kill tape 5 years ago, esp. when iSCSI gear arrived, still hasn't happened. I agree for home use it is the way to go but I would not want to make the decision in a professional environment to switch to disk, esp sata disk that isn't redundant.

 

[yyrkoon]

As far as I can tell, you're paying triple, to four times the price, for 6 more months of warranty over the top of the regular warranty of the parts (except for the drives, Seagate almost ALWAYS offers a 5 yeear warranty, with the only exception I know of being white lable drives).

As I have stated already, this setup is less than intuitive to say the least.

 

[usagi]

To me, the biggest thing this article has highlighted is the varying performance of the hard disks. It makes a mockery of the testing that groups like Tom's do, since benchmarks like the IOBench seem to vary wildly between "identical" drives.

I guess you could always buy a bunch of drives, bench them, keep the best and keep returning/swapping the poor performers... if your retailer supports it.

 

[ses27]

So an employee removes a HDD from the NAS at the end of every day and takes it offsite... Are these enclosures going to last with lots of removals and reinserts?

I know that in the past that actual drive connectors were pretty flimsy. But no more? This could be very promising

Woohoo!

I have been using a StarTech unit now for almost a year and haven’t had a problem ($60 for drawer& caddy + $25 for extra caddy)

The one thing to remember on the drive caddy they only see 52 changes a year so ware on them is low

Now on the drive drawer is going to see 250 changers a year so the drawer should wear out 5X faster then the caddy

But if/when it wears out, then is a $60 part needs to be replaced thats a lot cheaper then replacing your tapes

 

[Busto963]

Seems like tapes have the advantage that you can more readily save a snapshot of data from a particular time (it's easier to take a tape out of circulation than a disc). Also it seems like one is less likely to store a hard drive off.

I thought the point of this article was to look at a backup solution. taking a disc (or even the entire array) offline briefly to swap a disc is probably okay.

 

[Busto963]

Disk is great for backups only if it isn't for disaster planning. We use both tape and disk. Disk is usually used to improve return to operation (rto) times because data restores so much faster from disk. We use this mostly for db and email. Most people aren't worried about backup times because any recent tape technology works well 90% of the time considering backup window/data.

I know this is a tech site, but I think most people overlook the role of paper as well. Imagine that as as a small business owner: all your IT equipment is stolen, destroyed in a fire, flood or tornado, and you get the picture. phone number for clients, employees, suppliers etc stored neatly in binders offsite might make the difference between survivng a total loss and failing. Needless to say, you insurance, equipment purchases, tax and payroll data should be included as well.

 

[Scots]

Another product which caught my eye, and we are actively looking at, is from a company called IdealStor.

Its a removable hard-drive based backup system, but the chassis connects direct to the LAN, which allows the chassis to be used as the backup server itself. Its compatible with a fair range of backup software, and may just be the product we're looking for.

They also do something called the FrankeNAS, which is a dual-purpose chassis - part NAS, part backup-server (again using removable drives).

They use standard SATA drives in their caddies, offer up to 2:1 compression, although i think with backup software this could be increased, and with 1 TB SATA drives about to be released, this bears watching

 

[Guest]

Actually, I've worked for a military think tank. Physical security is just as important as anything over the wire. It's common for facilities to lock down their hardware after hours. Now-a-days you hear about companies losing laptops due to theft or negligence...they've got good reason to worry because there could be very sensitive information on a single disk (industry info as well as SSNs, MMNs and other personal pieces of info). Encrypted or not, a stolen hard drive should be something to worry about.

 

[Guest]

True...for a true hardware enthusiast you can build your own eSATA solution for a lot less. Unfortunately, the article was geared for a small business environment, not necessarily for personal use.

However, if you tack on charges for support and labor costs, you should have an edge over the HighRely products. Just answer the phone once in a while to answer customer questions.

 

[Guest]

I wouldn't see it as mockery of what Tom's does. Of the seven drives sent for the eval, that one particular drive was consistent through all the tests. I repeated it over and over again and always got the same results.

If anything, it says something about the disk manufacturer. Their product lines aren't consistent. It's more of "shame on them" for telling us one thing and selling another...

...I'm still not sure if multiple trips to the store would be worth having a set of fast drives, but you'd be saving someone else some money when they buy your open item...

 

[Guest]

The setup is intuitive...you seem to have a problem with the cost. That's a separate issue. I don't disagree with you, but you have to look at this from a mid/small business standpoint.

For less than $5000, you can probably go out and get a cheaper solution.

But if you're a small business certain questions need to be answered. Who are you buying the equipment from? Will they provide the right type of support when you need it? How fast are they going to ship the items out to you? Big companies like Seagate, WD aren't that turnkey. Smaller companies are more responsive because they know their customers better. Stuff like that makes paying that little extra (in general terms of course, not what High-Rely would charge you) worth it.

Interestingly enough, High-Rely took their replacement disk drive prices off of the website.

 

[Guest]

Actually, how you run your backups and how often you replace the disks is a personal choice or reaction. An occasion may come up that requires removal of a drive outside of it's backup cycle or you may want to transport a drive off-site as part of your DR procedure. I'm sure there are other reasons why the hot swap is a cool feature other than popping out a dead-in-the-water disk drive (but what would be the point...the drive is dead), but if I wasn't clear enough on that then I'll do better next time.

Thanks for the comment.

I still like the idea of disk to disk backup/storage. I just don't see tape being a solution down the line.

...and lastly, how many small businesses know what a WAN is?

 

[yyrkoon]

True...for a true hardware enthusiast you can build your own eSATA solution for a lot less. Unfortunately, the article was geared for a small business environment, not necessarily for personal use.

However, if you tack on charges for support and labor costs, you should have an edge over the HighRely products. Just answer the phone once in a while to answer customer questions.

Eh? SoHo ? (Small office Home office ?) Small business, and any serious home user that need storage are the same in a lot of needs. This setup offers very little to be desired in a lot of aspects, and there are better ways to go abotu doing the same thing, for a much cheaper overall cost.

Now if you mean 'morons with more money than sense', then sure, maybe I could agree . . .

 

[yyrkoon]

The setup is intuitive...you seem to have a problem with the cost. That's a separate issue. I don't disagree with you, but you have to look at this from a mid/small business standpoint.

For less than $5000, you can probably go out and get a cheaper solution.

But if you're a small business certain questions need to be answered. Who are you buying the equipment from? Will they provide the right type of support when you need it? How fast are they going to ship the items out to you? Big companies like Seagate, WD aren't that turnkey. Smaller companies are more responsive because they know their customers better. Stuff like that makes paying that little extra (in general terms of course, not what High-Rely would charge you) worth it.

Interestingly enough, High-Rely took their replacement disk drive prices off of the website.

The setup is obscure, while adding costs needlessly for things that do not even make sense(unless perhaps you have more money than brains).

If 'the office staff' is not capable of figuring out the hardware, then perhaps you seek a local contracted technition (keeping the money local, and thus benifiting your local community), who would then build the system for a fee, and offer support on a need only per hour basis. Now if your employees are morons, and otherwise mess things up, then perhaps it is time to seek new employees, or pay out more to your technition. As for warranty, there is hardly a computer part now days that does not at least have a one year warranty, and a lot of the components that would be used in a system like this, would offer 3 or more years.

You guys make this situation out to be more than it is: another computer that just sits there, storing data. If your data needs to be stored in a locked safe at night, fine, pay me another $20-$40 per drive, plus an hourly rate to install removable drive trays, and problem solved.

Building dependable Office systems is not rocket science after all . . .

 

[yyrkoon]

I would like to add, that I work in an envoirnment, that does similar stuff for small local TV/Radio stations in my area, and I have seen this sort of proprietary product fiasco more than one.

Recently, we replaced a $12,000 proprietary video server for a television station, with a $3000 video server, because the original was malfunctioning, was proprietary in software, and hardware, and overall, resembled something like the given product here.

This replacement does a much better job, handles a lot more, and parts in it are standard, non proprietary components that can easily be replaced with off the shelf parts. This save times, and money for both the technitions, and the TV station.

I could literally go on for hours about the shoddy technical support for the first server, from charging by the hour, plus making the caller pay phone fees, to giving bad information, as to the possible causes for said malfunctions. Turns out that the problem was in a configuration file (possibly changed over WAN connection by the company to solicit more charges). Anyhow, long story short, the companies solution would have cost the station thousands of dollars to fix the problem, when all they had to do was pay a technition from us for 8 hours worth of work, plus after long talks with the owners, and possible avenues to follow, we eventually found a product for them that suited all of their needs for a reasonable cost.

That being said, video servers are a bit different from the standard server, but one thing they do have in common is: Proprietary hardware is BAAAD