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Time for an upgrade (I feel)

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April 18, 2007 8:16:49 PM

Hello everyone, I'm looking to build a new computer within the next few months, but I have a few questions. Now before you go making comments, I will say that I am no newbie if you will. I have done my homework for the most part, I just have a few small questions.

First let me explain something, my current computer has the following.

AMD Athlon 3200+ Processor
1 gig of OCZ platinum revision 2 ddr memory (don't know the specifics off the top of my head)
evga 6800gt graphics card
Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS sound card
A 36.7gig raptor hard drive (mainly for the OS and programs)
An 80gig ide hard drive (mainly for most of my games)
A 320gig sata 7200.10 hard drive (mainly for multimedia storage)
2 ide dvd burners
480W trutech PSU from Antec (I know the brand and wattage are correct)
19" Rosewill R912E lcd monitor

This really doesn't mean much, but I mention this because what I would like to have my new computer I want to be build become my primary machine, and then use this machine as a secondary machine, mostly for like when my cousin comes over we can do some LAN gaming, then. Considering this fact don't try to tell me to just upgrade my current computer.

Now I will get straight down to business here is what I am thinking of putting in my new machine:

-EVGA 122-M2-NF59-TR Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 590 SLI MCP ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188016

-EVGA 768-P2-N835-AR GeForce 8800GTX 768MB 384-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 SUPERCLOCKED HDCP Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130079

-AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ Windsor 3.0GHz 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Processor - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103773

-Thermaltake Soprano DX VE7000BWS Black 0.8mm SECC Chassis/ Aluminum Front Bezel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133040

-Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (Perpendicular recording) ST3750640AS 750GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148134

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST380815AS 80GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148231

-Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer 7.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102006

-Logitech X-230 32 watts RMS 2.1 Black Speaker System - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836121123

LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model LH-20A1L-05 - OEM (2X)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106073

-Acer AL2216Wbd Black 22" 5ms DVI Widescreen LCD Monitor with HDCP support 300 cd/m2 700:1 - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009094

Ok, now I left out the obvious things such as case fans, keyboard, mouse, etc. What I plan to do is take out the hard drives from my current machine and use them in my new machine. I'm getting an extra 750gig hard drive for storage. I'm also getting an 80gig hard drive which will replace all the drives I take out of my current machine. I'm getting that nice 2.1 system so when my current computer gets demoted, it will have a decent sound system.

I can say foremost, that I am not changing my processor. I've done my homework and that's the processor I want. For the most part the motherboard was the best one I could find for the price, however if you can find a better deal with similar specs please do tell. Basically what I listed above is no subject to change.

Now you'll notice I didn't include the memory or PSU as these are the two components I have real questions on.

I managed to narrow my memory choices down to two, but I can decide which is better. Either:

-Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146563

-OCZ Platinum Revision 2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Note at this time the OCZ is significantly cheaper (~$75 less) then the Crucial. I looked at a review on the Crucial and it got good marks, and while I didn't do a review on OCZ, I currently have OCZ memory in my computer and haven't had any issues yet.

If anyone could give me some suggestions on what memory to go for, I'd appreciate it.

The next issue is PSU. I was initially looking at this PSU:

-Thermaltake W0106RU Complies with ATX 12V 2.2 & EPS 12V version 700W Power Supply 100 - 240 V CE, CB, TUV, FCC, UL, CUL, and BSMI certified - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153038

However, then today I read that if you're going with a lesser known brand of PSU then you need a higher wattage, but if you are going with a better known brand then you don't need as high of a wattage which led me to notice these three PSUs (Note I do completely know there is more to a PSU then it's wattage rating)

- Thermaltake Purepower RX W0143RU ATX12V 550W Cable Management / Active PFC / 14CM Fan / Triple +12V Rails Power Supply 115/230 V CE, FCC, UL, CUL, TUV, and BSMI certification - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153051

- HIPER HPU-4K580-MS ATX12V v2.2 580W Power Supply 100 - 120V - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817128002

- Thermaltake Purepower RX W0144RU ATX12V 600W Cable Management / Active PFC / 14CM Fan / Quad +12V Power Supply - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153049

So, anyone have any good suggestions on any of these power supplies?

Now, I have a minor question. The monitor I'm looking at says it has HDCP support, I to assume correctly in that I can then play 720p HD content on this monitor?

I have a quick question about the graphics card, I saw ZipZoomFly had this one on their site:

- EVGA 768-P2-N837-AR e-GeForce 8800 GTX KO ACS3 768MB GDDR3 PCI Express Video Card w/Dual DVI-I, HDTV, S-Video-out Retail
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=321206&prodlist=pricegrabber

Is that graphics card really with the extra $50 over the one I listed above?

I will close this with my big point, and that is I want this machine to be able to handle next gen games (such as Crysis) at the highest resolution my new monitor can support, which I think is 1680 x 1050 or something, with everything maxed out or turned on or whatever. Can it do this or should I say will it be able to do this?

I will now say thank you everyone for your input.

Oh and I forgot to mention: at this time this new build will cost roughly $2100 upfront, but about a little under $2000 after rebates and such, so before you go making radical suggestions try to make sure your suggestions won't charge me a whole lot more.

More about : time upgrade feel

April 18, 2007 11:46:32 PM

Nice rig, and most people would be happy to take your "back up"

1. Take the OCX, too much difference in price for little benifit but the name.

2 no, same reason, the difference is like 5mhz on the GPU
April 19, 2007 1:32:34 AM

Quote:
Nice rig, and most people would be happy to take your "back up"

1. Take the OCX, too much difference in price for little benifit but the name.

2 no, same reason, the difference is like 5mhz on the GPU


I would have to agree with you, I am sure plenty of people would be happy to take my "back up," but like I said it has it's purpose.

I guess I should have better asked my question, I mean sure between the Crucial and the OCZ I listed above I guess the OCZ is clearly better, but my question is, what should I be looking for in general? I mean is there a certain speed or voltage rating I should have at the very least? Is the brands or specific sticks of memory I should avoid?

Also if it helps, I probably won't do overclocking, but I am not adversed to doing a little of it.

Again my big question is, will this machine be sufficient for next gen applications, and will it be able to handle next gen games at the max settings my new 22" monitor will be able to support.
Related resources
April 19, 2007 2:58:44 AM

Quote:
Nice rig, and most people would be happy to take your "back up"

1. Take the OCX, too much difference in price for little benifit but the name.

2 no, same reason, the difference is like 5mhz on the GPU


Agreed.

And with the 8800. Don't spend the extra 80 for a really over-sized cooler:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


Good luck. :D 
April 19, 2007 3:02:55 AM

what kind of question is that lol? 2 gigs of mem, 8800gtx, 3 ghz cpu. ur good to go lol.

about the PSU since ur getting a sli motherboard instead of a p965 or w/e im assuming your planning for sli in the future? then get a power supply with quad pci-e rails as the 8800gtx takes 2 pci-e rails to power, ridiculous isn't it lol? this is the PSU im getting. 750 w quad pci-e rails.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

o crap i just noticed they added 20 more bucks to the price...lameeeee
April 19, 2007 3:05:17 AM

I am tired now but I will go hard on your computer tomorrow morning...
April 19, 2007 3:26:18 AM

Ok, ok, ok. I can say while SLI is not an immediate option, it is something I may consider in the future, but I'm not too sure. So, I guess I could ask, if anyone has any good motherboard choices, preferably one with a good number of SATA 3.0Gb/s ports, because I'm going to have 3 SATA Hard drives and SATA dvd burners.

Again as I said about the SLI thing I'm uncertain, so either way anybody have any good SLI enabled and non-SLI enabled PSU options, beyond the one GoldenRiver mentioned?

I mean guess I just ask while I'm here. Would I really ever need to go SLI in the near future, I mean wouldn't one 8800GTX be sufficient enough for next gen gaming and such? I mean I really want this computer to last me a good 5 to 7 years at least, before I have to think about upgrading again.
April 19, 2007 3:48:19 AM

the 8800gtx runs all games right now no questions asked.

i definitely doubt a good 5-7 years. technology is developing really fast. in a couple years 8800 would become like the 7k's even maybe the 6k's. I recommend the evga 680i A1 motherboard.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

6 stats 3.0gb/s enough for you?
April 19, 2007 3:52:20 AM

Quote:
the 8800gtx runs all games right now no questions asked.

i definitely doubt a good 5-7 years. technology is developing really fast. in a couple years 8800 would become like the 7k's even maybe the 6k's. I recommend the evga 680i A1 motherboard.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

6 stats 3.0gb/s enough for you?


Well I won't comment on the price of that mobo, but I will point the obvious. That mobo is no good, because I'm going with an AMD Athlon X2 6000+ processor, and clearly that's an intel based mobo.

Good suggestion, just for the wrong processor.

Also I understand technology changes and is developing really fast. I am only asking is if in like 5 to 7 years this computer will still be able to play new games at that time, not necessarily with the highest of settings, but still.

EDIT - I forgot to add that 6 sata 3.0gb/s are sufficient enough. Also not 100% required but I will mention that I'd prefer my PSU to have modular cabling support (and yes I can understand if said support would incur a little extra cost in the product) unless of course everyone has a major or serious complaint or reason for not going with modular cabling support.
April 19, 2007 3:59:08 AM

haha sorry about that. your not going to switch over to an intel processor even with the price cuts in a few days?
April 19, 2007 4:09:14 AM

Quote:
haha sorry about that. your not going to switch over to an intel processor even with the price cuts in a few days?


I didn't know Intel was doing price cuts. If intel can cut the price of their e6600 processor to be within the same price as AMD's 6000+ X2 processor then perhaps I would make the switch. So I shall keep this price cut in mind, but for now I'll continue building around my AMD processor.

Well I'll ask the question. Is the evga mobo I mentioned above any good, because I mean I think it is. It has all the things I need on it, but still, I don't know?
April 19, 2007 4:22:58 AM

if it wasn't good why would i be getting it? especially evga has nice customer support unlike MANY other companies
April 19, 2007 4:34:03 AM

ok, well I think I'll stick with the mobo I selected, now back to PSUs?

Anybody have some good power supply suggestions, I know I mentioned some above. Any thoughts on those? Like I said I prefer modular cabling, and I doubt I'll be going with SLI, but I'm a still undecided at this point.
April 19, 2007 11:23:59 AM

AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+

ASUS Crosshair
eVGA 650a

Corsair Dominator
OCZ Platinum

eVGA 8800GTX

Seagate Barracuda

Corsair 620W PSU
April 19, 2007 2:37:17 PM

That ASUS Crosshair mobo is a nice suggestion, but I what I can't seem to comprehend is why that mobo cost $100 more over the one I picked out, because I mean they both have 590 chipset. I mean what would be the justification for spending the extra $100 to get that ASUS mobo over the evga mobo I picked out?

Also I looked around and I can't seem to find such a thing as an evga 650a

I will say your PSU suggestion is a decent one that I shall keep in mind.

Your suggestion on Corsair Dominator is too general as Corsair Dominator is more of a series, I mean my question is what should I be looking for in memory?
April 19, 2007 3:09:32 PM

What are you willing to spend?

And why do you have your GAMES on an IDE drive?
April 19, 2007 3:15:31 PM

Quote:
What are you willing to spend?

And why do you have your GAMES on an IDE drive?


The reason my games are on an IDE hard drive is because I had the ide hard drive long before I got the 320gig sata drive I have now, and when I got that sata drive I never bothered to move the games over to that drive because I didn't have any real demanding games. However if I do have a high demanding game like half life 2 or fear, I put games like those on one of my sata drives.

Besides games like doom and quake 1, quake 2, and quake 3 run fine on my ide drive.

As for what I'm willing to spend, porbably somewhere between $100 and $150 on a mobo.

Considering I'm getting a 22" widescreen monitor and that 2.1 sound system, plus that extra 80gig hard drive, I have a budget of about $2100 (no more than this though) for everything.
April 19, 2007 3:34:03 PM

Seasonic S12-650 PSU Active PFC 12v:4x18a 20+4pin $160+8 4/19/07
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Since even if you want to, the X2 6000+ won't overclock much, any 400MHz memory (DDR2-800) will do. Go for low latency rather than higher speed.

If you are pleasantly surprised by the new Conroe prices next week, then obviously the memory needs will change with the motherboard...
April 19, 2007 3:35:20 PM

AMD Athlon 64 FX X2 6000+
ASUS Crosshair
Buffalo Firestix DDR2 800
eVGA 8800GTX
Seagate Barracuda 16MB 250GB (x3)
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Extreme Gamer
Corsair 620W PSU

Western Digital Raptor: Windows XP Professional
Seagate Barracuda 16MB 250GB (x2): Storage
Seagate Barracuda 16MB 250GB: Games
April 19, 2007 4:10:53 PM

I like your suggestions but there is one minor flaw in your suggestions. You recommend I go with three 250GB hard drives over one 750GB hard drive and I can see why as it is cheaper to go with three 250GB hard drive, but between my two sata dvd burners, my raptor hard drive, my 320GB hard drive, and your suggested 3 250GB hard drives that would mean my mobo would need 7 SATA ports. Now the mobo you suggested has only 6 internal sat ports and 2 esata ports unless you are suggesting I use one of those esata ports which then I would need an external enclosure for one of my hard drives.
April 19, 2007 4:58:52 PM

Quote:
I will close this with my big point, and that is I want this machine to be able to handle next gen games (such as Crysis) at the highest resolution my new monitor can support, which I think is 1680 x 1050 or something, with everything maxed out or turned on or whatever. Can it do this or should I say will it be able to do this?


You should get a 150GB Raptor and run your games off of that. I know this will give you less disk space for your money, but you are intending to run next-gen games at max detail - this will mean very long loading times for each level as the textures are loaded in. A Raptor would make a significant difference here.
April 19, 2007 5:10:51 PM

Well, you certainly make a valid point here, but I don't think I will be going that extreme, I mean I will keep your suggestion in mind, but I'm not sure it's an option I will be going with at this time. I mean maybe as I'd get more money down the line I could invest in a 150GB raptor (or two) but not at this time.

But thank you everyone for your input thus far.
April 19, 2007 5:22:18 PM

Game: Crysis
Resolution: 1680 x 1050

Your system won't be able to handle Crysis at that res with any decent options turned on. MY system won't be able to run Crysis at the max res with all options and still get decent fps.
April 19, 2007 5:49:01 PM

Are you sure, I mean I don't mean to discredit you or anything, but I found the system requirements on Crysis (although they are pure speculation, it's still something to consider)

Minimum Requirements

CPU: Athlon 64 3000+/Intel 2.8ghz
Graphics: Nvidia 6600/X800GTO (SM 2.0)
RAM: 768Mb/1Gb on Windows Vista
HDD: 6GB
Internet: 256k+
Optical Drive: DVD
Software: DX9.0c with Windows XP


Recommended Requirements

CPU: Dual-core CPU (Athlon X2/Pentium D)
Graphics: Nvidia 7800GTX/ATI X1800XT (SM 3.0) or DX10 equivalent
RAM: 1.5Gb
HDD: 6GB
Internet: 512k+ (128k+ upstream)
Optical Drive: DVD
Software: DX10 with Windows Vista

The system I am building more then meets the recommended requirements mentioned above. Again those specs are pure speculation, but still. What about my machine is it that it couldn't achieve a good frame rate at the max (1680 x 1050) resolution the monitor I'll be getting supports? Do I need a better processor or more memory or what?
April 19, 2007 5:53:01 PM

I would say at the very LEAST you would need an 8800GTS to get a decent Crysis experience. The CPU is fine.
April 19, 2007 5:58:04 PM

Well my new computer will an 8800GTX. I mean is there some confusion here. My current machine which has a 6800GT, Athlon 3200+ Processor, and a GB of memory will become my secondary machine. The computer I want to build with roughly an athlon x2 6000+ processor, 2GB of memory, and a 8800GTX all with my 22' widescreen lcd will be one I'm playing crysis on. I'm not concerned if crysis will play on my current machine or not.
April 19, 2007 6:02:51 PM

Okay, thats good. You won't be able to play at that max res and all the options though. It will be good enough for a good experience though.
April 19, 2007 6:08:20 PM

Quote:
Okay, thats good. You won't be able to play at that max res and all the options though. It will be good enough for a good experience though.


Ok, fair enough, I think we understand each other now, but out of curiosity. I'd still stick with the 22" widescreen lcd, but what about this new build would I have to improve to be able to max all the settings at a res of 1680 x 1050? I don't specifics, just in general. Like what I need to go with a e6600 intel or something? I'm just curious.

Also I still haven't gotten an answer as to why that ASUS crosshair mobo is worth the extra $100 over the evga mobo I was looking at.
April 19, 2007 6:12:41 PM

8800GTX SLI.

6000+ is plenty.
April 19, 2007 6:16:15 PM

alright, that settles that. Like I said before it is no guarantee that I'll go with SLI in the future, but I'd like an SLI mobo anyways, because with what you're saying, I just may in fact invest in SLI in the future, not at the time of first building this thing, but maybe a little while there after.

Anyways, back to my motherboard question stated in my previous post.
April 19, 2007 6:31:08 PM

Yeah, I would get the Crosshair instead of the eVGA if I was running an AMD. Personal preference? Maybe.
April 19, 2007 6:43:42 PM

Quote:
Yeah, I would get the Crosshair instead of the eVGA if I was running an AMD. Personal preference? Maybe.


Well that's what I want to know, is it a preference thing or is a very legitimate justification for picking the crosshair over the evga mobo.

But while we're on the subject of mobos, how's this one look:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128011
April 19, 2007 6:50:56 PM

The Gigabyte is fine, just don't get the combo deal with the POS PSU.
April 19, 2007 7:15:35 PM

I have not read any reviews of the AMD eVGA board. I have however read many reviews and own a Crosshair and I have never owned a better AMD board. Until proven otherwise, it is the best AM2 board.
April 19, 2007 7:24:06 PM

Quote:
The Gigabyte is fine, just don't get the combo deal with the POS PSU.


I know better then to get the combo deal, heh, but thank you for your input.

Quote:
I have not read any reviews of the AMD eVGA board. I have however read many reviews and own a Crosshair and I have never owned a better AMD board. Until proven otherwise, it is the best AM2 board.


Thank you for your input, I'm only keep asking why makes the crosshair so special because I don't know if at this time I can justify spending so much on a mobo.
April 19, 2007 8:28:45 PM

... I don't know... It just performs better... google it.
April 19, 2007 8:48:46 PM

Quote:
Thank you for your input, I'm only keep asking why makes the crosshair so special because I don't know if at this time I can justify spending so much on a mobo.
Look at all the expensive features:
LED readout on the back
Massive heat-pipe cooling system
Every possible port and chip available
The most expensive NVidia northbridge

If you don't want all that, then don't pay for it...
April 19, 2007 9:47:35 PM

Quote:
Thank you for your input, I'm only keep asking why makes the crosshair so special because I don't know if at this time I can justify spending so much on a mobo.
Look at all the expensive features:
LED readout on the back
Massive heat-pipe cooling system
Every possible port and chip available
The most expensive NVidia northbridge

If you don't want all that, then don't pay for it...

Ok, that's a good enough answer for me. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't a performance thing.
April 19, 2007 10:15:27 PM

No, the performance thing is the AMD X2 6000+.

April 19, 2007 10:32:13 PM

Well I think I'm pretty settled on a motherboard for now. Give me some advice on a PSU. What's a good wattage for my build? What should I be looking for in terms of the voltages and rails and such?
April 19, 2007 10:40:53 PM

Quote:
Well I think I'm pretty settled on a motherboard for now. Give me some advice on a PSU. What's a good wattage for my build? What should I be looking for in terms of the voltages and rails and such?
Mainly due to the 8800GTX, you will need some serious, reliable power. If you don't like my choice, at least think in terms of similar $$$. A few minutes spent on the PSU section of this forum might also help.

Seasonic S12-650 PSU Active PFC 12v:4x18a 20+4pin $160+8 4/19/07
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
April 20, 2007 2:27:09 AM

Quote:
No, the performance thing is the AMD X2 6000+.



HAHAHAHAHA!
April 20, 2007 3:07:20 AM

It should be OK. I know that the 750 Thermaltake is a good unit, uses the same 140mm fan and is made by Channelwell. This one appears to be the little brother to it. I hope that is so since other Thermaltake units generally suck. I recommend things I know will work well. The Seasonic I mentioned is one example. You pays your money and takes your chances.
April 20, 2007 11:19:46 AM

AMD Processors:
1) Stable
2) Efficient
3) Great Price:p erformance

Intel Processors:
1) Stable when they want to be
2) Use more energy that the Hoover Dam can provide
3) Current Proce:p erformance is great
4) Beastly overclockers
April 20, 2007 9:25:35 PM

Well I've done some looking around and I got a question. What would be a good intel processor. I'm curious, would an e6300 be sufficient for what I want out of this new computer, or would I be better suited with an e6400 or e6600. I am basically looking for the cheapest intel that'll give me what I want out of this new machine in comparison to the x2 6000+? And before you go suggestion such, I will not be going with any processor greater than e6600 processor.
April 20, 2007 9:27:53 PM

E6420
April 20, 2007 9:32:13 PM

alright, is that processor out yet. I mean I looked on newegg and don't see it listed. Also you think that processor will get a price cut as a part of the cuts intel is suppose to be making next week?
April 20, 2007 9:56:27 PM

Yeah, its out and it is cheap.

It is either 6420 or 6450. I forget.
!