NTSC on Sony HDTVs

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Consumer Reports has some interesting Ratings for HDTVs. I notice
they rate HDTV input, DVD input, and Standard 480i inputs.

They rate the Sony HDTV sets (eg xxHS420 line), as having very good
performance with standard 480i signals (the famous half red circle).

Was wondering if owners of these sets would agree with that when
viewing 480i signals off the straight cable (no el cheapo tech
cableboxes involved).

4:3 or widescreen, don't matter to me; I'm considering both (well 34"
and 36 models).

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

sammy@nospam.com wrote:
>
> Consumer Reports has some interesting Ratings for HDTVs. I notice
> they rate HDTV input, DVD input, and Standard 480i inputs.
>
> They rate the Sony HDTV sets (eg xxHS420 line), as having very good
> performance with standard 480i signals (the famous half red circle).
>
> Was wondering if owners of these sets would agree with that when
> viewing 480i signals off the straight cable (no el cheapo tech
> cableboxes involved).
>
> 4:3 or widescreen, don't matter to me; I'm considering both (well 34"
> and 36 models).

I've seen the incomplete Consumer Reports HDTV listings....

What that report reinforces is that:

Sony CRT HDTVs have very good 'digital processing guts'
in their HD Tube TVs.... be it 30" wide or 32" 4:3...

IF the 480i Program source is good.. The picture is Good too!
IF the 480i Program source is rough... Sony picture is
better than what the competition usually can do...

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

sammy@nospam.com wrote:
>
> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:36:33 -0600, Dennis Mayer <Polaris1@execpc.com>
> wrote:
>
> >...
> > Sony CRT HDTVs have very good 'digital processing guts'
> > in their HD Tube TVs.... be it 30" wide or 32" 4:3...
> >
> > IF the 480i Program source is good.. The picture is Good too!
> > IF the 480i Program source is rough... Sony picture is
> > better than what the competition usually can do...
>
> Bottom line the TV does what it's supposed to do with a good signal.
>
> That's half the battle.


What I, Den Mayer, meant to say about Sony's Guts:

Bottom line is the Sony Digital TV does 'Better' what it's supposed

to do with a good or average Analog signal... than it's
competition..

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I find a very wide range in picture quality for 480i on my Sony KDF-60XS955.
I do not find that a poor quality 480i signal is improved over what I think
it would look like an a standard analog TV set. Seems to me that my TV
emphasizes all the flaws of a poor 480i picture, making it worse. On the
other hand, some channels broadcast 480i pictures that look great.
Yesterday, I surfed through probably a hundred or more digital and analog
channels showing on my TV -- via Time-Warner Cable, a CableCard and the TV's
internal digital tuner. 480i picture quality was all over the place, from
horrible to excellent, as I surfed from channel to channel.

I would be very interested to know what it is, exactly, that makes for such
a wide range in picture quality among those different 480i signals.

In any case, I would not buy a Sony HDTV, or any other HDTV, for that
matter, because of anything good that it will necessarily do for 480i
broadcast pictures. A bad 480i picture -- whatever causes that -- is going
to look worse on your HDTV than it does on a plain old TV set.

mack
austin


"Kent" <johnston@nrcan.gc.ca> wrote in message
news:82ff7499.0411171333.99bc1fc@posting.google.com...
> What I found was that the SONY HD WEGA TV's do really well with
> 'dirty' analogue
> 480i cable broadcasts. When I switched to satellite I really missed
> the
> detail of the analogue 480i broadcasts with the WEGA. For example
> even
> though a compressed digital Satellite broadcast is 'clear' it lacks
> the detail of analogue cable which I really missed.
>
> HDTV on the WEGA from either cable or satellite is off the scale
> stunning of course.
>
>
> Dennis Mayer <Polaris1@execpc.com> wrote in message
news:<419A7DA9.5D1D0FC1@execpc.com>...
> > sammy@nospam.com wrote:
> > >
> > > On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:36:33 -0600, Dennis Mayer <Polaris1@execpc.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >...
> > > > Sony CRT HDTVs have very good 'digital processing guts'
> > > > in their HD Tube TVs.... be it 30" wide or 32" 4:3...
> > > >
> > > > IF the 480i Program source is good.. The picture is Good too!
> > > > IF the 480i Program source is rough... Sony picture is
> > > > better than what the competition usually can do...
> > >
> > > Bottom line the TV does what it's supposed to do with a good signal.
> > >
> > > That's half the battle.
> >
> >
> > What I, Den Mayer, meant to say about Sony's Guts:
> >
> > Bottom line is the Sony Digital TV does 'Better' what it's supposed
> >
> > to do with a good or average Analog signal... than it's
> > competition..

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:52:01 GMT, "Mack McKinnon"
<MckinnonRemoveThis@tvadmanDeleteThisAsWell.com> wrote:

>...
>In any case, I would not buy a Sony HDTV, or any other HDTV, for that
>matter, because of anything good that it will necessarily do for 480i
>broadcast pictures. A bad 480i picture -- whatever causes that -- is going
>to look worse on your HDTV than it does on a plain old TV set.
>
>mack
>austin
>

How about EDTV ? Everyone keeps raving about the 37 and 42"
Panasonics.

Yeah, it's not HDTV, but I want to watch mostly DVD's, and PVR
recorded cable.

I've got a good CRT computer monitor and will probably be able to
watch HDTV on my computer soon for the gotta see gee wiz stuff.

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Jeff Rigby" <jeffg212@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4_2dnZe9JI_YaADcRVn-jw@comcast.com...

> There are frame buffers that convert NTSC for a HD TV that corrects the
SOFT
> picture you normally get with cheaper HD TV's.

What does a frame buffer do for a soft pix, specifically? It may be part of
a system but the processing applied is what is important. Do you have some
details that migh tbe interesting?

> MGA has had one on their

MGA has not existed for a long time, in the USA, anyway. Where are you. If
you mean Mitsubishi, they use some enhancement schemes, the most effective
on 480i is to actually filter it carefully in analog before digitizing it.
Who knows the details of the algorithms they apply in the digital domain.
You can't get that info in any detail, if at all.

> higher end sets and Samsung has them on some of their lower end sets ie:
> Akai pt5598hd a 55 inch HD TV with HD tuner. The picture quality when
> displaying NTSC 480i is better than a standard NTSC projection tv. In
fact,
> it does a better job than some of the TV stations ( HD signal from NTSC
> source).

Bullshit. I sell and work on the Mitsubishis every day. I can't think of a
single set that looks better on NTSC than the best of the analog sets, now
all gone. The best look very good, and are very acceptable, IMO, but not
better than they would if never processed digitally. The artifacts of
digitizing analog are clearly there. Which you prefer, analog grain that is
more random or digital grain that is more patterned is a matter of
preference. There is no going to be more detail in a digital image than in
the original analog source. Unfortunately, you don't have much choice
unless you buy a cheap analog only set. Virtually all consumer sets except
the very least expensive do some digital conversion nowdays.

Sets like the Samsung, which do not have the optical nor electronic ability
to resolve the detail that better sets have, may actually be more forgiving
of analog grain and digital grunge. This is nothing new. Better resolution
of lousy sources has been a decision point for large and higher resolution
televisions since the first Videobeam came out thirty years ago.

Leonard

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

voter wrote:
>
> On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:52:01 GMT, "Mack McKinnon"
> <MckinnonRemoveThis@tvadmanDeleteThisAsWell.com> wrote:
>
> >...
> >In any case, I would not buy a Sony HDTV, or any other HDTV, for that
> >matter, because of anything good that it will necessarily do for 480i
> >broadcast pictures. A bad 480i picture -- whatever causes that -- is going
> >to look worse on your HDTV than it does on a plain old TV set.
> >
> >mack
> >austin
> >
>
> How about EDTV ? Everyone keeps raving about the 37 and 42"
> Panasonics.

I believe EDTV is defined as 480p wide......

A consistent, fairly good example of a 480p wide Live TV programing

to date has been the Sat/Sunday NASCAR auto races offered

by both the TNT or NBC Networks... One more race to Go....

And yes there was the Richmond NBC-HD short track event too...








>
> Yeah, it's not HDTV, but I want to watch mostly DVD's, and PVR
> recorded cable.
>
> I've got a good CRT computer monitor and will probably be able to
> watch HDTV on my computer soon for the gotta see gee wiz stuff.