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Please take out Dr. Phil next

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April 20, 2007 2:19:15 PM

Take Two Defeat Jack Thompson In Court

http://www.thelastboss.com/post.phtml?pk=2660

I am so sick of seeing Dr. Phil's face on TV. That guy is poisoning this society. No credentials, no real understanding of what the heck is going on. Please tell me that they will take on him next.

Note: GTA is really a violent game. That's the only game I think should definately not be played by minors.

More about : phil

April 20, 2007 2:29:05 PM

While I don't necessarily disagree with you, I do question what this has to do with CPU's.
April 20, 2007 2:35:45 PM

LOL. Where would you post something like this?
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April 20, 2007 2:48:30 PM

Played GTA... I personally didnt think it was as bad as the media try's to portray it....hell, it doesnt even look that great.


Good to see ol' jack got his ass kicked in court though.

About that, if your not going to let minor's play GTA3, then you might as well not let them play FEAR, Doom3, Hitman, Stalker and a few other choice selections. those imho are worse than GTA

Hell, some of the servers in CS are horrible; I'm no saint myself, but I dont think I've heard as much profanity in live life at any given point in time.
April 20, 2007 2:56:14 PM

I think GTA is the worst too. Sure, FEAR and CS:S are violent, but it's less like real-life violence. GTA3 portrays stealing, shooting, killing, etc as an ideal way of life with no real repercussions. If your character is killed or arrested, you just respawn.

And if CS:S servers are the most profanity you've seen, clearly you haven't /b/een exposed a certain /b/ulletin /b/oard. :lol: 
April 20, 2007 3:01:53 PM

Dont you think those games are more "fantasy" than real life? Playing Call of Duty 2 takes me back to WWII. Its not real, which a lot of games arent.

GTA - I think a kid who lives and a gang based neighbourhood playing this game, is closer to reality than many people think. Have you heard how they talk in the game, the way they act, the scenes etc. I think it just promotes violence for a certain section of the population, and not necessarily the best idea.

I've played it though (Vice City), and had a blast (now that game was fun). San Andreas is more life like (not as "cartoony") so not the best game for minors. I got bored playing that and moved on to others.

Tough call. You'll never stop kids playing games no matter what. Developers should just push content that is MORE fun and more population friendly.
April 20, 2007 3:03:37 PM

Quote:
I think GTA is the worst too. Sure, FEAR and CS:S are violent, but it's less like real-life violence. GTA3 portrays stealing, shooting, killing, etc as an ideal way of life with no real repercussions. If your character is killed or arrested, you just respawn.

And if CS:S servers are the most profanity you've seen, clearly you haven't /b/een exposed a certain /b/ulletin /b/oard. :lol: 


Ditto - I just made the connection too between real life and fantasy games. I mean, how can WoW be bad for one's brain (other than getting no sleep). A huge man eating boss that heals themself - naaaaa, no danger in getting to entwined in that vs. real life.
April 20, 2007 3:12:59 PM

Forgive my ignorance of the American Constitution, but where does it say you have the RIGHT to play video games?
April 20, 2007 3:14:02 PM

I wasnt ditinguishing between fantasy games and "real life" games...

just generalizing the violence and that it is indeed worse in other titles.

if we want to be serious....Dr. Mario is horrible for kids!! seriously, that guy has put countless people into medicinal shock from an OD then influenced uncounted masses into being pill heads.

its gotta stop. too much medication in this nation. we gotta stop from just throwing pills at problems....
April 20, 2007 3:14:07 PM

It's all about education. People have to be more responsible for their kids education. Parents are a child's first and largest influence, so it's a real shame when parents start letting the media start to educate their children for them.
The same thing happened with violence in cartoons, now look at the crappy assed cartoons kids gotta watch these days. They're, non-imaginative, horribly simple, and down right stupid most of the time. It'd be a shame if the same thing were to happen to games just because people are too irresponsible to be proper parents. Just my 2 cents.
April 20, 2007 3:16:06 PM

Why not ban Dr. Phil while we are at it. Any objections?? wow, a deafening silence .....
April 20, 2007 3:16:46 PM

The problem is that it is up to the parents to montor what their kids watch/play and a lot of them don't.

Forget violent games. There are a lot of TV shows and music videos young children should not watch. The problem is that people watch TV and see these reality shows and talk shows and think this is how you are supposed to behave and that is how everyone is. If things are not sensationalized in the media then no one would watch it. So they make a huge deal out of every thing.

A lot of parents are not very good parents and do not set good examples. A lot of kids follow in their parents foot steps. If you father is a drug dealer or criminal then you will probably end up the same way.

Some nature so nurtue.

Most things are ok in moderation. Too much of anything can be bad for you. That applies to almost everything.

These are some of the prices that you pay for living in a free society. There are different levels of values in this country. You have the far left, the far right and the middle of the road. A lot of us fall some where in the middle.
April 20, 2007 3:23:56 PM

Quote:
Most things are ok in moderation. Too much of anything can be bad for you. That applies to almost everything.


Except sex and shorting AMD. :lol: 
April 20, 2007 3:24:57 PM

But why sensor when you can educate?
Sensorship only creates taboos, and we all know how much fun those are! :twisted:
April 20, 2007 3:26:37 PM

Quote:
But why sensor when you can educate?
Sensorship only creates taboos, and we all know how much fun those are! :twisted:


Censors show an X-rated planet ahead, Captain... :lol: 
April 20, 2007 3:33:34 PM

hahaha, yeah i guess my spelling does suck!
April 20, 2007 3:34:22 PM

Quote:
i just felt that surely if America outright refuse to ban handguns (on the basis of constitutional right to own one) then there is no way they could be allowed to ban video games (as it is my constitutional right to play them)


You have no such right technically speaking, although I do agree that video games are not the cause.

In the FBI paper, which conducted a study to determine the roots of these kids' problem, you know what they found?

There were more than 30-35 factors, the majority dealing with home and school life, but the emphasis seemed to be more on the parents than anything.

Here is a quote:

Quote:
Fascination with Violence-Filled Entertainment
The student demonstrates an unusual fascination with movies, TV shows, computer
games, music videos or printed material that focus intensively on themes of violence, hatred,
control, power, death, and destruction. He may incessantly watch one movie or read and reread
one book with violent content, perhaps involving school violence. Themes of hatred, violence,
weapons, and mass destruction recur in virtually all his activities, hobbies, and pastimes.
The student spends inordinate amounts of time playing video games with violent themes,
and seems more interested in the violent images than in the game itself.
On the Internet, the student regularly searches for web sites involving violence, weapons,
and other disturbing subjects. There is evidence the student has downloaded and kept material
from these sites.


Ok so games may be a tiny factor, but 1 or 2 pages later we get this:

Quote:
Parents do not react to behavior that most parents would find very disturbing or abnormal.
They appear unable to recognize or acknowledge problems in their children and respond quite
defensively to any real or perceived criticism of their child. If contacted by school officials or staff
about the child's troubling behavior, the parents appear unconcerned, minimize the problem, or
reject the reports altogether even if the child's misconduct is obvious and significant.


and

Quote:
Parents do not supervise, limit or monitor the student's television watching or his use of
the Internet. The student may have a TV in his own room or is otherwise free without any limits
to spend as much time as he likes watching violent or otherwise inappropriate shows. The student
spends a great deal of time watching television rather than in activities with family or friends.
Similarly, parents do not monitor computer use or Internet access. The student may know
much more about computers than the parents do, and the computer may be considered off limits
to the parents while the student is secretive about his computer use, which may involve violent
games or Internet research on violence, weapons, or other disturbing subjects.


So, what these media bones heads fail to do is acknowledge the other points in the paper. The FBI recognizes the parents/home life as its own category of risk factors, while gaming, or entertainment in general, is a sub point to a larger set of risk factors in the personal category. This distortion of the truth is what is bringing games under fire and causing the average person to blame something else.

What if we, as a society, started taking responsibility for our own damn actions?

Why not blame the shooter for not asking for help?

Why not blame him for not exerting some self control?

Why not put more news worthy stories about the families devastated by this story instead of programs dedicated to the shooter?

Useless f***in journalists.

Linkage
April 20, 2007 3:51:40 PM

Please elaborate...so you want to make every thing legal? Drugs, prostitution, slavery, murder.........see the slippery slope you are on.

You have to understand that children and even pre teens brains are not fully developed until they reach their early 20's.

Also young children are easily influenced and don't always make the connection between action and consequences.

You have to have some kind of censorship. We can't have a free for all and civil disorder.

People need to be educated but they also need to be protected as well. Especially children.
April 20, 2007 4:01:22 PM

Yes!!! Dr. Phil must die!!! I hate that guy, he's so full of $hit!!!
April 20, 2007 4:10:28 PM

Quote:
Please elaborate...so you want to make every thing legal? Drugs, prostitution, slavery, murder.........see the slippery slope you are on.

You have to understand that children and even pre teens brains are not fully developed until they reach their early 20's.

Also young children are easily influenced and don't always make the connection between action and consequences.

You have to have some kind of censorship. We can't have a free for all and civil disorder.

People need to be educated but they also need to be protected as well. Especially children.
Best post of the thread, for sure. :wink: I also agree with some of the FBI findings that Super fly posted. Most notably, the fact that many, many parents will deny their childs' guilt(or accusations of). The other point about parents not "supervising their kids while watching TV/Internet"....yes.... easier said than done, and you have to give them some room(privacy, what have you) especially while they have friends over. It's smart to wonder past them occasionally, when they aren't expecting it. One big difference between now, and when i was a kid (late 70's), is that both parents pretty-much have to work to pay the bills, meaning A:)  daycare/baby-sitter(scary...molestation risk) B:)  they are home alone from the time they get home from school...til a parent gets home(usually 1-2hrs.). C:)  Only one parent work, and live a lower(financially) lifestyle... very good option as far as child-rearing goes... many sacrifices are made. In relation to "C", the cost of living is brutal, with kids clothes, hobbies, birthday parties/holidays, school-trips, school supplies, etc.etc....which isn't fair to the child, if you can't afford all of these things, and they are laughed at or singled-out.(going thru all this sh*t now). Sorry for long post, but there are no "easy" answers.
April 20, 2007 4:13:17 PM

What is protection? ask yourself that....

I remember watching tom and jerry when I was much younger; and by a strange coincidence I saw it the other day (when I say strange, I meant i was bored and started watching cartoons) keep in mind this is a "kids" program....

but cartoons shooting guns, dropping bowling balls, swalling pool cues....

all violent but acceptable in this society.


it honestly is completely up to the parenting, some children mature emotionally faster then others and can handle an older subject material.
Hell I remember watching Predator with my father when I was 6 and I loved it. Then Blazing saddles, possibly the funniest movie ever... I havent killed anyone (to my knowledge) I consider myself a rather well-rounded and social individual. I was explained though, the images I saw and teh games I played were not real, and it all has to be absorbed in moderation. I was taught how to hunt, trap and clean animals...and respect for firearms all at a tender age.

I will say that violence in general does contribute; but its usually a given that there is some underlying mental disorder that is the main backdrop to these hideous acts. Like I said, I've never been diagnosed with any type of disease or disorder, and I dont feel the need to shoot someone after playing Half Life.

Its self control; and it can't be preached any more - parenting! The VA shooter's folkes were said to be really nice people; I'm sure they are, however the reports list that they didnt take very aggressive steps towards helping their son with his......'issues'. I'm not saying its easy either, raising a child; however its not hard to detect when something is amiss.


If we as a society would stop letting our youth be raised by the media then perhaps we could begin to understand our problems a bit better.
April 20, 2007 4:17:39 PM

Quote:
Yes!!! Dr. Phil must die!!! I hate that guy, he's so full of $hit!!!
I don't think he is. He's right... more than he's wrong. I used to watch him everyday, but i don't anymore....not because i think he's wrong, but just because his ego has swelled, and he's getting a little full of himself. He is a smart guy though, but his values don't necessarily "jive" with most of society's excepted values....now-a-days. Of course most younger people aren't going to listen to what he says.....because he sounds like...."a parent", and what kid wants to listen to a parent. Once you get older, and have your own kids, most people realize why their parents did/said what they did. / lecture. :oops: 
April 20, 2007 4:38:31 PM

I think we agree on a lot of points. When I mean protection I mean having laws that protect people and mainly children. Even adults need to be protected. You have the benifit of having a good head on your shoulders. People who are mentally retarted are at a dissadvantage.

This young person who killled those students in VA was mentally ill. It sounds like he probably had problems his entire life. Who knows if he was abused as a child. I am in no way excusing him but just saying we don't how things will effect you as a child. Things like what happened in VA kinda defy explanation because they don't make any sense at all no matter how much they talk about it on TV you come to the same conclusion that a bunch of people lost their lives because one very sick person decided to kill them. It just makes no sense at all and it is very tragic.

Two children are bullied at school. One child is ok the other over time becomes enraged and strikes back. Two soliders go to war one comes home ok the other has the worst case of PTSD and can never function in society again.

I think we need to try to help people if we can but things like what happened in VA are going to happen from time to time and we will be unable to prevent them. People are so focused on control and being in control when actually we have very little control over what happens from day to day. We have some control over our own lives about what decisions we make but that is about it. I am starting to ramble sorry.
April 20, 2007 4:47:23 PM

Your whole slippery slope argument is flawed. Just because something is leagal doesn't mean you will do it and just cause something is illegal doesn't mean you won't do it.

Like I said before it's about education, morals. I'm not saying that it's the easy way out, like 1Tanker said "there's no easy answer." And parenting can't be easy either, but just beacause it's difficult doesn't mean you delegate your child's education. I just think there's way too many irresponsible people having children out there and it's these same people that try to blame everyone but themselves for their own negligence.
April 20, 2007 4:50:05 PM

Quote:
People are so focused on control and being in control when actually we have very little control over what happens from day to day. We have some control over our own lives about what decisions we make but that is about it. I am starting to ramble sorry.


Nice ramble!
April 20, 2007 4:52:15 PM

Tanker, I agree there is a huge compromise based circumstances. Given a situation with both parents working and lower income scenario it becomes very difficult. The trade offs are numerous and I could never cover them all in a post, but I do acknowledge them all.

I was very fortunate as a child, but I was always required to treat people with respect and to absolutely never criticize people for their living situation (which is what the shooter pointed to as a motive, snobby rich ppl). To me it is more important how a person acts and what they believe than what they have in the bank account. Money is a fleeting thing, here one day gone the next, but respect can last forever (when properly taught to future generations).

However, having said that, parenting is something almost impossible to monitor/regulate.
April 20, 2007 5:02:14 PM

Kinda like killing your own arguement?

who is too decide what is moral or not once most everything is legal?
Hell, I know people who hold down respected positions of authority that smoke dank pretty much every damn day. I've even met a couple doctors sadly....

Aside from the basics of crime and death.... what is moral? Most people dont find their drug addictions wrong. However that is called denial and in truth 99.9% of those folkes are making life difficult for at least one other person.

Something thats illegal and popular....then made legal, lets take an example-- weed. God love my family, however my brother use to smoke far too much... again, I'm no saint, but he took it beyond the context. His arguement? it didnt effect anyone else in our family;
he consistently missed work, didnt play baseball anymore and became pretty damn lazy in most aspects of life; I"m not saying everybody ends up like this that uses...but this is my experience.
however he ended up getting busted for it, had is license revoked and a fine tagged on.

like a crack head. some resort to crime to score and get money.
image how much crime would increase if their product was legal?
its an unlimited supply of rock, but a small cash flow....gotta make it somehow.

if you can't see where I'm going with this.... then you need to re-read the thread. being that were way-off topic now, I'll try not to carry much further.
April 20, 2007 5:05:13 PM

Quote:
Tanker, I agree there is a huge compromise based circumstances. Given a situation with both parents working and lower income scenario it becomes very difficult. The trade offs are numerous and I could never cover them all in a post, but I do acknowledge them all.

I was very fortunate as a child, but I was always required to treat people with respect and to absolutely never criticize people for their living situation (which is what the shooter pointed to as a motive, snobby rich ppl). To me it is more important how a person acts and what they believe than what they have in the bank account. Money is a fleeting thing, here one day gone the next, but respect can last forever (when properly taught to future generations).

However, having said that, parenting is something almost impossible to monitor/regulate.
Same here. :wink: Although i get snarky/crusty in here sometimes...i always watch my manners, and try(well, don't have to "try") to be polite....in real life. That said, if someone uses me, and or treats me or my loved ones disrespectfully, all bets are off. It's very easy to lose faith in mankind, but there really and truly are some decent people still around....sometimes surprises me. I'm 42, and i find that, generally, but not always...todays youngsters have almost zero manners, thought for others. When i see a teenager say "thank-you"or "excuse me" or "sorry"...etc.(and seem sincere) it actually makes me smile. :) 
April 20, 2007 5:15:13 PM

Quote:
Your whole slippery slope argument is flawed. Just because something is leagal doesn't mean you will do it and just cause something is illegal doesn't mean you won't do it.

Like I said before it's about education, morals. I'm not saying that it's the easy way out, like 1Tanker said "there's no easy answer." And parenting can't be easy either, but just beacause it's difficult doesn't mean you delegate your child's education. I just think there's way too many irresponsible people having children out there and it's these same people that try to blame everyone but themselves for their own negligence.


You are right to a point. I know and understand what you are saying and agree but it is not you that I am worried about it is the people who think they can do whatever they want. And yes if there were no laws moral or legal I would expect that some people would start doing whatever they wanted just because they could. Think of all of the laws that we have now that we didn't have 10 years ago. 10 years from now we will have more laws.

I know that you can argue that law less people will break the laws anyway and that is true but if we didn't have the laws then we could not punish them and there would be no consequences.

It is hard to make/have any kind of system that is perfect. It seems to be a constant struggle between order and chaos. It is the way of the universe. I guess you can't have one without the other. They both serve a purpose.

Our problem is that we can't accept things as what they are. We always have to analyze things to death and beat the dead horse over and over again. Some things you can explain using science other things just defy explanation and maybe we should not try to figure them out. Now I am getting a little carried away with this. :wink:
April 20, 2007 5:16:54 PM

I am only 22 and I definately see a difference in today's youth and I never hear "thank you" as often as I feel I shoud, if anything I say it too much lol.

I can't stand these damn teens walking around with their ipods in their ears while they are shopping with their family... oh man I would lay the smack down if my child tried to pull that crap.

That being said, i agree with you. If someone disrespects me... oh its on. :wink:
April 20, 2007 5:20:50 PM

I hear you can get a hula girl put on yer arm at a taboo shop. :wink:
April 20, 2007 5:29:01 PM

I've been trying to find Dr. Phil's resume. Cant get it anywhere. If anyone can find out something about his life story, post it here. This guy is as fake as it comes. Where did he study?
April 20, 2007 5:30:21 PM

Dr. Phil has a B.A. from Midwestern State University and an M.A. and Ph.D. in clinical psychology from North Texas State University with a dual area of emphasis in clinical and behavioral medicine.

http://www.drphil.com/shows/page/bio/
April 20, 2007 5:31:00 PM

Quote:
Take Two Defeat Jack Thompson In Court

http://www.thelastboss.com/post.phtml?pk=2660

I am so sick of seeing Dr. Phil's face on TV. That guy is poisoning this society. No credentials, no real understanding of what the heck is going on. Please tell me that they will take on him next.

Note: GTA is really a violent game. That's the only game I think should definately not be played by minors.


True but it's not real, Dr. Phil is a moron, that's real.
Some Dr. he is, he should know that if someone is "off" anything could set them off, even something he said.
8 million people play WoW, figure 10 million plays other games, and a handfull of morons go off and take lives, then they blame Gaming LOL. must be new Math, I don't get it.
April 20, 2007 5:31:20 PM

An avid tennis player, golfer and scuba diver, Dr. Phil lives in Los Angeles with Robin. The couple have been married for 30 years and have two sons: Jordan, their younger son, and Jay who married in August 2006.
April 20, 2007 5:32:37 PM

I think the media is making us all cynical. Bad news makes good news. If it were the opposite the world would be a much nice place I think.

Imagne instead of killing etc in the news they had a story (front page news) of man that buys bunches of flowers at a store and gives them out randomly to people he meets on the street. Now imagne all of the copy cats that would do the same thing. I believe is it is a two way street and it works both ways.

I see and meet a lot of nice people every day. I work with people of all different races, skin colors, religous back grouds etc. and one to one and face to face we all get along well. We don't all think alike or see things the same way but that is ok. It is the media that makes it out that this side can't get along with this side etc. And I just don't see it in my day to day life.
April 20, 2007 5:35:09 PM

hey guys, super columbine massacre..... ever heard of it? lol


good ol' jacky boy using shit games to further his effort(waste of time)
April 20, 2007 5:38:25 PM

Just dont watch the media. I dont. I refuse to. I cannot handle the commercials. I havent turned on CNN for ~2 years now until this incident at VT.

Get your content off the net. Watch what you want, when you want etc. If you are looking for news, go to the BBC or make your home page the WSJ - something relevant (not Fox - what horse S&^%T). It's really the future. I called my cable company to cancel my subsciption, but I was locked in and it would cost more to get out. I only have a few months left.

Seriously guys, the net for content is the future.
April 20, 2007 5:45:39 PM

To have Dr. Phil "taken out" would only make him a martyr, to ease your pain you would need to see him on Jerry Springer proclaiming his affection for crossdressing hookers.

On a more "sane" note, parents need to stop using "electronic babysitters" like TV and such, try exposing children to some books or music with no words.

/rant deleted/ carry on as you were...
April 20, 2007 5:51:17 PM

Quote:
Just dont watch the media. I dont. I refuse to. I cannot handle the commercials. I havent turned on CNN for ~2 years now until this incident at VT.

Get your content off the net. Watch what you want, when you want etc. If you are looking for news, go to the BBC or make your home page the WSJ - something relevant (not Fox - what horse S&^%T). It's really the future. I called my cable company to cancel my subsciption, but I was locked in and it would cost more to get out. I only have a few months left.

Seriously guys, the net for content is the future.
100% agreed about the commercials. I could spend most of my free time on the computer, but i choose to watch shows with my wife at night. She spends a few hours a day on the her own computer too...playing Bingo, etc. :)  I could live quite comfortably without the boob-tube, and no phone. We have a 13 y.o. daughter...the phone rings 150 times a day..at least. :x :twisted:
April 20, 2007 6:04:55 PM

Only thing I watch on TV these days in American Idol (don't laugh... they products a few good singers), CSI and Friends (when it was on). Other than that I stick to my movies, WSJ articles and magazines.

TV is ridiculous... I can't stand to watch it really, although the discovery channel is bad ass, as is in the history channel.

Meh, somethings just need to go away.
April 20, 2007 6:17:01 PM

Quote:
To have Dr. Phil "taken out" would only make him a martyr, to ease your pain you would need to see him on Jerry Springer proclaiming his affection for crossdressing hookers.

On a more "sane" note, parents need to stop using "electronic babysitters" like TV and such, try exposing children to some books or music with no words.



Word :wink:
April 20, 2007 6:21:44 PM

Quote:
Only thing I watch on TV these days in American Idol (don't laugh... they products a few good singers), CSI and Friends (when it was on). Other than that I stick to my movies, WSJ articles and magazines.

TV is ridiculous... I can't stand to watch it really, although the discovery channel is bad ass, as is in the history channel.

Meh, somethings just need to go away.
Wife and I<<<< Law & Order addicts... seen the all the old ones at least a half-dozen times. :oops:  :oops: 
April 20, 2007 6:25:17 PM

I'm partial to SVU... don't know why, I like the actors I guess.
April 20, 2007 6:35:38 PM

Quote:
Take Two Defeat Jack Thompson In Court

http://www.thelastboss.com/post.phtml?pk=2660

I am so sick of seeing Dr. Phil's face on TV. That guy is poisoning this society. No credentials, no real understanding of what the heck is going on. Please tell me that they will take on him next.

Note: GTA is really a violent game. That's the only game I think should definately not be played by minors.


Not sure what Dr. Phil has to do with this but I hate him too! I love the way he'll spend a couple segments pretending to be all understanding and trying to get the whole story and then he'll come back after a commercial break and just preach some ultra-generic BS completely ignoring all the details he just got.

GTA is a very violent game and it was rated accordingly wasn't it? "Mature 18+"?

@1Tanker
Good points. But it kinda seems like people picking on poor kids is as much the root cause as anything when you put it that way. Many school shootings (and terrorist violence in general) have had a common theme of resentment towards richer students picking on poorer students. If we could get rid of that and have parents concentrate on spending quality time with their children instead of making sure they can dress them in trendy clothes, have a nice car to pick them up in after school (and plenty of video games and internet to keep them busy while they are at work all the time) I think we'd all be a lot better off. If parents concentrated on raising healthy, intelligent, and strong yet caring children instead of being rich.

@SuperFly03

You are totally off base on those last few points. He DID ask for help. Submitting horribly disturbingly violent papers to your english teacher is a scream for help. And WTF is news-worthy about a "families devastated by this"? That's not news, that's normal "Our daughter got shot to death and we're devastated" well no crap. Very real, very sad but very non-news. How about news stories that encourage people to take self-defense classes so that if a single gunman with a single handgun showed up someplace he would only be able to kill as many people as he could get killshots on with one clip, not have time to reload like 10 times and run around unchallenged for ~2 hours. THAT would be news (news that is apparently desperately needed). And what good would it do to blame the shooter? He's dead and so are a bunch of other people. Pointless exercise in emotional outburst. You can't stop every psycho, you can be prepared to react rationally when a disaster strikes though. I'm so sick of hearing how people *feel* about it, of hearing how *devastated* they are and how *angry* they are. That's not news. I want to know what people are going to DO about it. The shooter did take responsibility for his own actions, he shot himself. Does that make you feel better? Does it solve anything? We, as a society, need to take responsibility for our REactions and stop spending so much effort demonizing "bad guys" and pretending like they don't exist until after something horrible happens and put more effort into being prepared for and dealing with it, rationally, when something bad does happen. THAT is responsibility. Moping around and fixating on emotions isn't. There are some hard questions that need to be answered: why did no security guards run in there and try to take control of the situation? Why did so many of the students and teachers not even try to protect themselves? Why didn't the doors have locks? Blame the shooter all you want but he's dead and we're not so we should do something about fixing these problems so the next time something like this happens (and it's not like this is the first time, stop acting so shocked) fewer people get hurt because those fewer people might be one of us or someone we care about.

Over 30 people dead... any FPS gamer would have known to run for cover and/or attack him while he was reloading.

Colleges ought to *require* self-defense training to get through freshmen year. How many more students need to get raped and killed before they make this simple change?

Thankfully I don't watch much TV myself but my roommates have been running it constantly and it's really driving me crazy.
April 20, 2007 6:50:05 PM

I dunno. Dr. Phil and Oprah could be quite useful alive if they realized how much power they have...

It sure would be easy for them to lobby for laws that would actually make a difference, seeing as they influence millions of voting americans. Such as MUCH stiffer consequences for violent crimes.

Instead of gun control and video game banning, how about public executions sold on pay-per-view?

I realize this wouldn't stop a nut who plans to off himself after a crime, but it should would make a compelling reason to not rape someone or shoot up a bank. And the revenue made for selling the footage could go to support programs to rehab those committing lesser crimes...
April 20, 2007 7:04:36 PM

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@SuperFly03

You are totally off base on those last few points. He DID ask for help. Submitting horribly disturbingly violent papers to your english teacher is a scream for help.


So all dark fantasies are a cry for help? I am not saying it wasn't a cry, but some people are just creative. There is a fine line, you have to watch social behavior as well as papers. Did he ask for help? Did he walk into a counselor's office and say "I'm having trouble?" did he ask his parents? What did he do (I don't know the full extent of what he did)?


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And WTF is news-worthy about a "families devastated by this"? That's not news, that's normal "Our daughter got shot to death and we're devastated" well no crap. Very real, very sad but very non-news.


It is better to show the grief that comes from such a tragedy than to keep showing the shooter. With the publicity this shooter is getting it gives others in the same mental state the idea that that may be the way to get peoples attention. The media does not need to give such violent people the spot light to this extent. It exacerbates the problem.

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How about news stories that encourage people to take self-defense classes so that if a single gunman with a single handgun showed up someplace he would only be able to kill as many people as he could get killshots on with one clip, not have time to reload like 10 times and run around unchallenged for ~2 hours. THAT would be news (news that is apparently desperately needed).


What good does it do to have people trained when most people would hide? When someone has a gun pointed in your face you can't just run up and take him out. That isn't how it works, that is how you get killed. Would it help being trained? Definitely, would it cure the ills? No, you still have to have people brave enough to stand up to a shooter. There are alot more factors to consider than just are you trained.

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And what good would it do to blame the shooter? He's dead and so are a bunch of other people. Pointless exercise in emotional outburst. You can't stop every psycho, you can be prepared to react rationally when a disaster strikes though.


The blame rests with those who are responsible. It does no good to blame factors that weren't a cause and in the end it all rests on him. It is not an emotional outburst to place blame, but to allocate responsibility. If we never placed blame we could never attempt to prevent these crimes because we wouldn't know what to look for. If bullying is to blame (it may or may not be) then we should look out for bullies in school. If bad parenting is to blame, then maybe we should educate parents, though we can't require them to do anything as parents generally.

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I'm so sick of hearing how people *feel* about it, of hearing how *devastated* they are and how *angry* they are. That's not news. I want to know what people are going to DO about it. The shooter did take responsibility for his own actions, he shot himself. Does that make you feel better? Does it solve anything?


That isn't taking responsibility for his actions, that is getting out of taking responsibility by avoiding restitution. He copped out.

To know what people are going to do about we must first understand what caused it.

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We, as a society, need to take responsibility for our REactions and stop spending so much effort demonizing "bad guys" and pretending like they don't exist until after something horrible happens and put more effort into being prepared for and dealing with it, rationally, when something bad does happen. THAT is responsibility. Moping around and fixating on emotions isn't.


Reactions come post incident, why not be proactive? Try to avoid as many of these problems as possible. Bad people do exist but the better we understand them and can identify them the less likely we are to have such a tragedy. Can we avoid them all? Never, but we can minimize their impact.

What you are advocating is something just short of military like training for the general public. People aren't calm when such violent incidents take place, to think otherwise is just ludicrous. We have trained professionals for such incidents, they are called police. We can't all be as prepared as them, which is nearly what you are suggesting. People are emotional creatures by nature and many can't keep them in check when such events go down because they come by surprise and any amount of practice doesn't compare to the effects of the situation in reality.

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There are some hard questions that need to be answered: why did no security guards run in there and try to take control of the situation? Why did so many of the students and teachers not even try to protect themselves? Why didn't the doors have locks?


Hmm campus police can't be everywhere and it is a big campus. I see our college police all the time on various parts of the campus, but they can't be everywhere instantaneously. Also, they have to plan their attack, they don't want to get gunned down because they rush in disorganized. They have to balance their life with the lives of others.

The students and teachers initially were caught off guard and frightened causing them to freeze and not think clearly. People aren't used to such volatile situations and to think otherwise is nuts. Yes there are things that can be done, some jumped out of the 2nd story window from what I heard.

Do you really think locks would save them? 1 bullet in the door blows the lock right out. No doubt it might have helped, but to have an emergency lock down system on every single door on campus would cost more than it is worth (in general). A university doesn't have unlimited resources, it has to balance spending/protection/educational resources, etc.

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Blame the shooter all you want but he's dead and we're not so we should do something about fixing these problems so the next time something like this happens (and it's not like this is the first time, stop acting so shocked) fewer people get hurt because those fewer people might be one of us or someone we care about.

Over 30 people dead... any FPS gamer would have known to run for cover and/or attack him while he was reloading.


You put alot of faith in peoples nerves, faith that is misplaced. You can also argue any smart gunman has a spare pistol that is kept fully loaded in case he is rushed during reloading. He could drop the gun being reloaded, kill the person rushing and then continue reloading.

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Colleges ought to *require* self-defense training to get through freshmen year. How many more students need to get raped and killed before they make this simple change?

Thankfully I don't watch much TV myself but my roommates have been running it constantly and it's really driving me crazy.


Such requirements get into the realm of the government regulating our actions and cannot be taken lightly.
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