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Impatient with ATI\AMD, buying a 8800gts

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April 22, 2007 5:25:13 PM

(update 4-24-07--- I made my decision finally, and ordered an 8800GTS 640mb card for $325 today-- thanks to all who contributed in this thread.)

I am building a new computer this week, as I have long planned to do since X-bit labs reported on the upcoming Intel price drops..... (yes, I had to use another site to get that info, because toms is too d@mn busy talking about crappy cars to inform us that a significant price drop was coming for Intel chips!) We are computer nerds here! We don't care about cars! I ain't no jock! :lol:  (ok maybe I am speaking for myself there)
(Yes, toms did eventually report on the price cuts... But by the time they did, the news was soo old, that it made my great grandmother look young!)

Anyways---
Here we are, April 22, the E6600 has indeed fallen to $225ish, and I AM READY FOR A NEW PC NOW, not 1 month from now when ATI\AMD gets thier #*@! together and finally releases the R600, which I've come to realize might not offer a better price to performance ratio over the 8800GTS anyways!

While I think there is a great chance that the R600 will be better then the 8800, I doubt that it will be "much" better based on all the reading I've done (for example: 320 pixel shaders, but are not as efficent as Nvidias shaders)

I should note-- I AM NOT nor have I ever been interested in the highest end cards (GTX, XTX) as they are almost always a bad Price to Performance ratio when compared to their lower end cousins (GT, XT).
I think that this is the same mentality that most gamers have when buying new cards.

So what does ATI\AMD have for us many gamers who only like to spend $200-$350 on new cards? XT2900?
Well I am sure whatever it is, it might very well beat a 8800GTS 320mb (currently the best bang for the buck on NVIDIA's side IMO)
However I highly doubt it will BLAST away the GTS in price to performance (WHICH IS WHAT I AM REALLY LOOKING FOR)....
If it is the better performer, it will be priced accordingly so that we don't really save any money at all buying ATI\AMD over Nvidia's GTS card. Sound like a fair guesstimation?


Ok let's talk biz here--

Is the 8800 GTS really going to drop in price with the launch of R600? -- Probably.

A lot?-- No.


How much?-- Depends on how good the new lower-high end cards cost, and how much power they give per dollar spent. But I'll just throw this out-- The average GTS price will drop 50 bucks tops. Is that worth waiting for considering the r600 family "probably" won't launch until later next month? NO! Not worth waiting for me, maybe for others, but my 6600GT card is ancient, and I wana play newer games NOW darnit! :D 

I have a copy of S.T.A.L.K.E.R. but I refuse to play it until I have a new PC. I ain't waiting until the end of may to play it, even if the R600 turns out to offer a slight edge in price to performance! (which is all I expect out of it)


You can already find some 8800gts 320mb cards for as low as $250 (PNY) or $260 (EVGA) or even an overclocked (LEADTEK) version for $275. I doubt the average 8800GTS price will drop much lower then that anytime soon, regardless of what ATI\AMD does. I also don't think anyone will be kicking themselves for buying an 8800GTS, because it has been, and will continue to be a good value (bang for the buck man, it all comes down to that)

I like ATI, but this is just too much waiting. They made a BIG mistake not having their cards ready before the Intel price drops IMO, and they are going to pay for it now. I know there is a lot of older AGP people like me, looking to upgrade now that C2D (or even AM2) is very affordable!

So now.... Before I plop down $250.00 on that PNY 320mb GTS card, if anyone here sees any reason why the 8800 and me should not be married (for the next couple of years lol) speak now or forever hold your PC. 8O


Disclaimer: The opinions here are just that, and not factual. I am not an expert, rather just some raving lunatic the bouncer moderators accidentally let into this night club. I hope they don't catch me, cause I am sure that when they see what I've done to the club's bathrooms, they will be very very angry! 8O
April 22, 2007 5:42:27 PM

Well I'm in sort of the same predicment about waiting for ATI, so I've decided to not buy the 8800gts and go for a lower end cheap card to hold me over untill the time comes for the R600. Then I may get an 8800gts, but only with the help of a price drop.

A 7600gt will be enough for me, as it will probably still amaze me because I'm not used to great graphics. And my friend will buy it off later for 30 quid so thats £17 for a temporary graphic solution.

Hopefully ATI will pull out all the stops soon, becasue otherwise AMD might be getting some nasty letters from the bank.
April 22, 2007 6:02:34 PM

lmao.. i feel your impatience... ive had a geforce FX5500 for like 2 years now, and ANY upgrade from what i have right now would be good, but i still wanna do a good buy. I was hoping that these 8600 were the ones to buy.. but guess not, at least not now. One part of me wants to just say.. what the hell, and but one of those.. but another part wants to wait a bit more and go for a GTS-320 (MAYBE), cuz im also on a budget.. but i do know that the GTS-320 is practically the best deal out there.. so im just gonna wait a couple of weeks to see the R600 release date.. and based on that i´ll see if i get the GTS-320.

sucks to wait indeed...

are you buying a GTS-320? or the normal version?
Related resources
April 22, 2007 6:12:43 PM

Quote:
which I've come to realize might not offer a better price to performance ratio over the 8800GTS anyways!


2900XT HD rumored similar performance to 8800GTX for $399 full $100 cheaper, better peformance/price, maybe not as cheap as 8800GTS but much better performance

Quote:
While I think there is a great chance that the R600 will be better then the 8800, I doubt that it will be "much" better based on all the reading I've done (for example: 320 pixel shaders, but are not as efficent as Nvidias shaders)


ATi's shaders are more efficient as they do more in a cycle, they're just not as fast which is where nVidia picks up the slack for doing less in a cycle

Quote:
I should note-- I AM NOT nor have I ever been interested in the highest end cards (GTX, XTX) as they are almost always a bad Price to Performance ratio when compared to their lower end cousins (GT, XT).
I think that this is the same mentality that most gamers have when buying new cards.


call me crazy but the 2600 HD can't be much worse than a 8600 series card, those are a joke, but anywho the top the line 2600 will sport 256mb of GDDR4, will be a 65nm part, is only 128-bit interface

Quote:
I like ATI, but this is just too much waiting. They made a BIG mistake not having their cards ready before the Intel price drops IMO, and they are going to pay for it now. I know there is a lot of older AGP people like me, looking to upgrade now that C2D (or even AM2) is very affordable!


the R600 family, the 790 chipset, and Barcelona are being showing off the Monday and Tuesday, should be atleast another month after for the R600 family to be on newegg, so do you have a reason NOT to wait atleast another month to see how the ATi products perform, and even if they are better and nVidia only price drops $50, that saved $50 covers shipping with change to spare.
April 22, 2007 6:19:35 PM

I'm waiting for the R600 aswell. But I thing the prices on the 8800 will drop depending on the performance. same what has happend with the cpu's.
April 22, 2007 6:41:21 PM

Quote:

2900XT HD rumored similar performance to 8800GTX for $399 full $100 cheaper, better peformance/price, maybe not as cheap as 8800GTS but much better performance


Yeah because Nvidia has absolutely no intention of lowering the prices on the 8800GTX/GTS to compete right? Because even though they've made premium margin on the last 7-8 months of high end cards, they would be dead in the water to lower the price of the 8800GTX/GTS to compete.

Quote:
ATi's shaders are more efficient as they do more in a cycle, they're just not as fast which is where nVidia picks up the slack for doing less in a cycle


Right because so many benchmarks are evident of that right? Game developers themselves said they'd rather have the blunt power of Nvidia's high count unified shaders than have to deal with the complications of multiple clock cycle stream shaders. The 2900XT was supposed to be 10-25% better than the 8800GTX, it wasn't so they decided to make it the $399 card so it would actually sell.

Quote:
call me crazy but the 2600 HD can't be much worse than a 8600 series card, those are a joke, but anywho the top the line 2600 will sport 256mb of GDDR4, will be a 65nm part, is only 128-bit interface


Yeah, the 1950XTX really showed the 8800GTS/GTS who's boss with their GDDR4 ram. Ram type doesn't make as much of a difference as architecture. I agree the 2600XT should destroy the 8600 cards because they're horrid, but I don't think it'll have anything to do with memory and everything to do with Nvidia's negligence to pay valid attention to the mid-range. And he wasn't talking about 2600XT/8600GTS he was talking about the 8800GTS.

Quote:
the R600 family, the 790 chipset, and Barcelona are being showing off the Monday and Tuesday, should be atleast another month after for the R600 family to be on newegg, so do you have a reason NOT to wait atleast another month to see how the ATi products perform, and even if they are better and nVidia only price drops $50, that saved $50 covers shipping with change to spare.


Maybe because he's waited 8 months already and he doesn't even know if they're going to be out this month or the next month anyway? I mean, if you're a girl and your boyfriend beats you and he promises to stop after 4 months, I would think anywhere between 6-8 months you're completely validated to give up hope in that endeavor.

You're making a lot of baseless assumptions. First, ATI is so hush-hush about the R600, it's pretty safe to say they're embarrassed about the performance, or they have a reason to be so secretive about it.

You're also assuming there's some kind of law or rule that Nvidia won't release their next chip or lower the prices of the 8800GTX/GTS that are out already.

They've been the high-end leader for pretty much an entire generation of cards and the press they got from it allowed them to swallow market share in the other markets. The 7600GT outsold the 1600/1650XT. The 7900GS competed with the 1950Pro. The 7950GT outsold the 1950XT. The 1950XTX never had a price drop after the 8800GTS came out and that was a huge mistake on ATI's part.

Nvidia doesn't make mistakes like that, trust me. If the R600XT competes with the 8800GTX for $100 cheaper, expect to see the 8800GTX $100 cheaper. If the 2900XTX is 25-30% faster than the 8800GTX, expect to see the 8900GT with 65nm architecture.
April 22, 2007 7:04:46 PM

Quote:
Yeah because Nvidia has absolutely no intention of lowering the prices on the 8800GTX/GTS to compete right? Because even though they've made premium margin on the last 7-8 months of high end cards, they would be dead in the water to lower the price of the 8800GTX/GTS to compete.


never said they didn't i just said what publications have been saying about ATi's first R600 card, and to point at with the current market a $399 2900XT is a good price/performance ratio

Quote:
Right because so many benchmarks are evident of that right? Game developers themselves said they'd rather have the blunt power of Nvidia's high count unified shaders than have to deal with the complications of multiple clock cycle stream shaders. The 2900XT was supposed to be 10-25% better than the 8800GTX, it wasn't so they decided to make it the $399 card so it would actually sell.


Once again I never said ATi's approach is better for games or for anything else for that matter, and no one has said 2900XT was supposed to be 10-25% better, it was our expectations, and even we still don't how much better it is, and won't for a while, so your claim that it sucks and thats why its $399 is a baseless assumption

Quote:
Yeah, the 1950XTX really showed the 8800GTS/GTS who's boss with their GDDR4 ram. Ram type doesn't make as much of a difference as architecture. I agree the 2600XT should destroy the 8600 cards because they're horrid, but I don't think it'll have anything to do with memory and everything to do with Nvidia's negligence to pay valid attention to the mid-range. And he wasn't talking about 2600XT/8600GTS he was talking about the 8800GTS.


Never said that GDDR4 would be make it a better card nor did I say any specs mentioned would blow the 8600 away, I just merely listed specs for reminder. Comparing an x1950 with GDDR4 to a 8800GTX is just silly when you're talking pure performance, a newer advanced DX10 architecture -vs- a DX9 architecture. That says it all. When you factor in price then you can put the two against each other for debate.

Quote:
Maybe because he's waited 8 months already and he doesn't even know if they're going to be out this month or the next month anyway? I mean, if you're a girl and your boyfriend beats you and he promises to stop after 4 months, I would think anywhere between 6-8 months you're completely validated to give up hope in that endeavor.

You're making a lot of baseless assumptions. First, ATI is so hush-hush about the R600, it's pretty safe to say they're embarrassed about the performance, or they have a reason to be so secretive about it.

You're also assuming there's some kind of law or rule that Nvidia won't release their next chip or lower the prices of the 8800GTX/GTS that are out already.

They've been the high-end leader for pretty much an entire generation of cards and the press they got from it allowed them to swallow market share in the other markets. The 7600GT outsold the 1600/1650XT. The 7900GS competed with the 1950Pro. The 7950GT outsold the 1950XT. The 1950XTX never had a price drop after the 8800GTS came out and that was a huge mistake on ATI's part.

Nvidia doesn't make mistakes like that, trust me. If the R600XT competes with the 8800GTX for $100 cheaper, expect to see the 8800GTX $100 cheaper. If the 2900XTX is 25-30% faster than the 8800GTX, expect to see the 8900GT with 65nm architecture.


I never said nVidia wouldn't make any price cuts, and I never said they wouldn't make a new release i just simply gave counter arguments and gave information to correct some of his statements. You made baseless assumptions as did I. Point being 1 more month to see how the new R600 family performs is not unreasonable if anything will save money.
April 22, 2007 7:51:38 PM

Don't listen to MC, crazypyro. You got it right. I REALLY don't feel like delving into this topic after participating in at least 10 different discussions about it.
The only thing that I will mention is that ATi's shaders are much more efficiant. ATi's shaders run about half as fast as nvidias, yet are the same, if not better performing.
April 22, 2007 7:58:48 PM

Funny I did the same thing this morning, I picked up a 8800GTS 320 from buy.com for $225 after rebate. I just bought my new core 2 duo and I didn't want to wait another month and a half, maybe more to see what ATI has to offer. And this price was just too good to pass up.

I will probably sell this and upgrade the card again sometime winter (and Crysis hopefully) to go with my new 24" monitor I plan to get. Stuck on 1280x1024 now, no reason to go for a card any higher at this resolution at this time.

ATI just annoyed me being quiet about everything for so long, saying that they have their high end cards but refuse to release them yet for some reason. The stupid NDA's in Tunisia only exacerbate this, makes me believe that they really don't have anything worthwhile to show, if they have cards ready to sell but won't even release benchmarks to those who have been waiting. Hey if they want to keep losing their marketshare that is fine with me, Ill give my money to someone with cards on the market. If they truly have their cards ready then it's their loss for holding out on the market who is wanting to buy.
April 22, 2007 8:09:01 PM

Quote:
Funny I did the same thing this morning, I picked up a 8800GTS 320 from buy.com for $225 after rebate. I just bought my new core 2 duo and I didn't want to wait another month and a half, maybe more to see what ATI has to offer. And this price was just too good to pass up.

I will probably sell this and upgrade the card again sometime winter (and Crysis hopefully) to go with my new 24" monitor I plan to get. Stuck on 1280x1024 now, no reason to go for a card any higher at this resolution at this time.

ATI just annoyed me being quiet about everything for so long, saying that they have their high end cards but refuse to release them yet for some reason. The stupid NDA's in Tunisia only exacerbate this, makes me believe that they really don't have anything worthwhile to show, if they have cards ready to sell but won't even release benchmarks to those who have been waiting. Hey if they want to keep losing their marketshare that is fine with me, Ill give my money to someone with cards on the market. If they truly have their cards ready then it's their loss for holding out on the market who is wanting to buy.



to each there own

if the price is too good to pass up, jump on it. I didn't pay full price for a single piece of hardware in my system, or the OS for that matter, all of it was on sale, so I'm a bargain shopper as well.
April 22, 2007 8:24:34 PM

Quote:
Well I'm in sort of the same predicment about waiting for ATI, so I've decided to not buy the 8800gts and go for a lower end cheap card to hold me over untill the time comes for the R600. Then I may get an 8800gts, but only with the help of a price drop.

A 7600gt will be enough for me, as it will probably still amaze me because I'm not used to great graphics. And my friend will buy it off later for 30 quid so thats £17 for a temporary graphic solution.

Hopefully ATI will pull out all the stops soon, becasue otherwise AMD might be getting some nasty letters from the bank.


the 600$ 8800 was 550$ after rebates at the end of november last year.

it's still 550$ after rebates months later at the end of april...

that card will definitely drop in price soon... i hope
a b U Graphics card
April 22, 2007 11:51:58 PM

Quote:
i posted this about a month ago
boy did i get flamed


You got flamed because you talk crap.

Still running on your inhell X3000 are you, ya big time gamer? :roll:
April 23, 2007 12:42:20 AM

Quote:
i posted this about a month ago
boy did i get flamed


You got flamed because you talk crap.

Still running on your inhell X3000 are you, ya big time gamer? :roll:You'd be surprised how fun Oblivion is at the lowest quality with a framerate of 10FPS.
a b U Graphics card
April 23, 2007 12:59:04 AM

Reminds me of playing Morrowind on the AIW 128pro 16MB or the Compaq Laptop with the 8MB Trident (hey it let me advance my quests at work at 3-5fps). 8O

Yeah the X3000, the pinnacle of slideshow gaming, brought to you by intel and beerandcandy. :twisted:

BTW, I'd love to compare my old laptop with the FXGO5200 to the X3000 since they likely both need the new ultra-low quality setting in order to run 'acceptably'.
April 23, 2007 1:15:26 AM

Haha, I couldn't wait either so i got a XFX 8600GT to hold me off till summer.
April 23, 2007 2:39:18 AM

no need to wait, life is short and AMD/ATI still going through a tough post marriage blues :o 
April 23, 2007 3:10:29 AM

Quote:
no need to wait, life is short and AMD/ATI still going through a tough post marriage blues :o 


and those bitter feelings will last until they divorce, or commit suicide. either way.
April 23, 2007 8:21:06 AM

quote from heyyou27---
"You'd be surprised how fun Oblivion is at the lowest quality with a framerate of 10FPS."

Yes, this is exactly one more reason why I just can't wait for R600 any longer.... I am currently playing OB in very low settings and still getting horrid FPS :lol:  Seriously, I am struggling even in 800x600 res in that game!

Sure, if I had a 7600gt, or better, obviously I wouldn't mind waiting an extra month to see what R600 will be like, but I don't have such a luxury. Here is my current, and pathetic rig---

AMD 3200 64 (single core) (754 mobo)
1 gig ram (pc3200)
geforce 6600GT AGP 128mb

I have been waiting, and waiting, and waiting just as NamelessMC mentioned earlier in this thread, for ATI to come out with the R600 in hopes it would drop prices on all DX10 cards, but it hasn't! I totally regret not buying a C2D system back in jan\feb when I was first ready. Sure I saved a few bucks by waiting this long, but at what expense? Getting my arse handed to me in BF2142, because I can hardly render the action around me fast enough to keep up with everyone else!

The wait was NOT worth it.

So why should I wait more? Because ATI might offer a slight edge in price to performance over the already good GTS?
If the 2900XT HD does indeed perform like an 8800GTX for only 400 bucks, yeah that'd be cool, but dang it is hard to wait any longer.

And even if that turns out true, well.... $250 for a GTS, vs $400 for a GTX (or equivalent)... Ya know, GTS is still a darn good price to performance ratio there :p  SO again, like I said in my first post, why not buy the GTS now? It is a great deal now, and I am sure it'll still be a good deal later!

Otherwise, I must say that you made some good points crazypyro, and thanks for clarifying some of the misinformation I listed. However, I think I am going to the dark side on this build.... Sure it was bad enough deciding I was going with INTEL (core 2) over AMD, but now also Nvidia over ATI?

I am soo going to computer HELL for my sins and I don't care who knows it :lol:  The dark side is stronger..... this time......


I am putting money on the check card today, and will be ordering Wednesday. I will be watching for any ATI news like a hawk, and if I don't see some compelling reasons why I should wait, I WILL ORDER A 8800GTS THIS WEEK! 8O



oh by the way, to you people who mentioned the 8600--- I just want to note, that I was not talking about those cards with my original post. They are very bad cards for the money in case you didn't know!

8600=== $200
8800gts= $250

Why in the heck would you buy a 8600, when for only $50 more you can get a 8800 gts which will blast it away? Nvidia screwed up with the 8600, so stay away from it! At least until it drops significantly in price anyways...
April 23, 2007 9:04:58 AM

Fact: Nvidia has the 8800 series now. They delivered the goods in November '06. Hard launch with immediate product availability. Awesome performance.

Fact: Ati has nothing higher than the X1950. Until Ati actually delivers the R600 in volume it's vapourware. No, I don't really care about the latest rumors from the inquirer about when it "might" be coming. Ati has an awful reputation for not getting it's high end parts out in time to compete with Nvidia. The X1000 series was months late and now this. It doesn't bode too well for the next generation, does it?

Just "wait for Ati" some more. :roll: :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 
April 23, 2007 10:57:56 AM

I've had my 8800GTS-640 for over 4 months now, by the time R600 does come out, I'll have had my 8800 for 6 months, in that time I've had absolutely kick ass graphics at my TFT's natural resolution with high AA and no slowdown. I'll have had it for a year by the time I feel the need to upgrade.

If you sit there saying "but this will be out in 2-3 months" you'll be forever waiting on the next best part, just stick your flag in the sand and say I want to buy now, what's available and what's best for my requirements. Waiting is silly. I have no doubt that R600 will be better performance, but coming out 6-7 months after the 8800 it really wants to be.
April 23, 2007 11:24:05 AM

So much anti ATI/AMD bile going around at the moment, makes me feel likes some kinda under-hand agenda going on, any of you dudes actually contemplated the consequences if AMD/ATI go under like alot of you obviously pray for...
You think if they go under yer precious next Gen Nvidia cards or Intel cpu will be dirt cheap, prices will sky rocket without competition & I look forward to that day ;-)
April 23, 2007 11:30:43 AM

Geezz guys.Still no games out quite yet that run on dx10 and you simply can't wait to see what ATI pulls out of its hat.Ok,but I'll keep waiting just to be sure I'm making the right choice in buying an NVIDIA card.

Dahak

AMD X2-4400+@2.6 TOLEDO
EVGA NF4 SLI MB
2X EVGA 7950GT KO IN SLI
4X 512MB CRUCIAL BALLISTIX DDR500
WD300GIG HD/SAMSUNG 250GIG HD
ACER 22IN WIDESCREEN LCD 1600X1200
THERMALTAKE TOUGHPOWER 850WATT PSU
COOLERMASTER MINI R120
3DMARK05 13,471
a b U Graphics card
April 23, 2007 11:45:55 AM

Some of this sounds like little kids whining and crying for something, then when the time actually comes, after all their fits, spits and $h1+$, they say, NO, I dont want it anymore. Give me a break will ya? Its ! freakin more day? SHEEESH OK, next Ill hear, yeah but when will they release them? After the benches THEN decide if you wanna wait or not...one more day...
April 23, 2007 12:13:39 PM

Quote:
Ok,but I'll keep waiting just to be sure I'm making the right choice in buying an NVIDIA card.

2X EVGA 7950GT KO IN SLI


that's easy to say sitting on 2 of the best last gen nvidia cards

bear in mind that some of us were running mid range 7 series, or some people even 6 series cards, you really have no reason TO upgrade until DX10 games start coming out, you'd actually be stupid to consider any 8800 product

and @ locherbread: one bad quarter for AMD does not mean they're going under, not by a long shot, they just need to get some of these products they keep telling us about actually on store shelves.
April 23, 2007 1:08:44 PM

Quote:
lmao.. i feel your impatience... ive had a geforce FX5500 for like 2 years now, and ANY upgrade from what i have right now would be good, but i still wanna do a good buy. I was hoping that these 8600 were the ones to buy.. but guess not, at least not now. One part of me wants to just say.. what the hell, and but one of those.. but another part wants to wait a bit more and go for a GTS-320 (MAYBE), cuz im also on a budget.. but i do know that the GTS-320 is practically the best deal out there.. so im just gonna wait a couple of weeks to see the R600 release date.. and based on that i´ll see if i get the GTS-320.

sucks to wait indeed...

are you buying a GTS-320? or the normal version?


Good lord man 8O , if you're still with the FX5500 it's your own fault you haven't upgraded yet. How much longer are you going to wait?
Let's see.... what possibly better cards could there be:
6600, 6800, 7300, 7600gs, 7600gt, 7800gt, 7800gts, 7900gs, 7900gt, 7900gtx, 7950gt, 7950gx2, 8600gs, 8800gts? I'll stop here and I won't even bother listing the scads of ATI cards as well that are all a significant upgrade and at varying prices that have to be within your budget.
Are you waiting for DX12 to drop to make your move?
Chec it out, there are pentium THREES out too! Make a move I bet you can get one off ebay, cheap! :) 
April 23, 2007 1:19:16 PM

Quote:
Some of this sounds like little kids whining and crying for something, then when the time actually comes, after all their fits, spits and $h1+$, they say, NO, I dont want it anymore. Give me a break will ya? Its ! freakin more day? SHEEESH OK, next Ill hear, yeah but when will they release them? After the benches THEN decide if you wanna wait or not...one more day...

I agree,
It seems silly to me to bother saying they are impatient. Do they expect ATI to jump out with the card saying "Oh, sorry... didn't realise you couldn't wait..."
Look, either get the card or don't, the 8800gts is a fine card that you will be happy with. And if they drop in price, or a better card comes out, or both, in a few weeks then boo hoo and join the rest of the planet.
This happens every time, to all of us.
It will happen every time, to all of us.
It's computer life, get used to it.
Unless you got your stuff for free of course ;) 

Also, why is it so hard to believe that AMD actually has something good here? It's not like ATI doesn't have a tradition of solid products that trade blows with nvidia time after time. Sure they haven't released in 7 months but it's not like mergers happen overnight.
April 23, 2007 1:42:31 PM

Quote:
in short i spent way less than you on my near silent system and i have been playing whatever games i want to play.

go buy your $500 video card you lemming!
buy your 550W PSU too and all the fans

I hate to pull a Robs, but does Oblivion look like this on your card?
April 23, 2007 1:51:21 PM

lol..pull a robs....

is that a new statement that we will be using a lot here?? :p  :lol: 
April 23, 2007 3:36:11 PM

Quote:
in short i spent way less than you on my near silent system and i have been playing whatever games i want to play.

go buy your $500 video card you lemming!
buy your 550W PSU too and all the fans

I hate to pull a Robs, but does Oblivion look like this on your card?


Shame on you.

Not only for attempting to pull a "STFU Robs" but also for getting it wrong as well.

You forgot to include a Fraps fps record in the screen shot (note that this must be at least 3 figures).

:p 
April 23, 2007 6:10:42 PM

Quote:
Some of this sounds like little kids whining and crying for something, then when the time actually comes, after all their fits, spits and $h1+$, they say, NO, I dont want it anymore. Give me a break will ya? Its ! freakin more day? SHEEESH OK, next Ill hear, yeah but when will they release them? After the benches THEN decide if you wanna wait or not...one more day...



I am a crybaby for being impatient eh?

Do I need to remind you that I am playing on a 6600GT :D  Wouldn't you be a bit impatient too, if that was your current card? That oblivion screen shot isn't far off from what I am seeing right now when I try to play it 8O


Believe me, I want to wait, as I know the DX10 games are a ways off yet... But I can't even play DX9 games worth a crap! In my situation I think paying a whole 20 bucks more now, instead of waiting for very modest price drops on the reasonable cards late next month, is justified.


I like AMD~! Hell, this new system I plan to build will be my first INTEL chip! I also like ATI.... I am not trying to steer anyone away from those fine companies, and their "generally" good products.

Please realize that there are hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of AGPers like me out there, playing on ancient cards, who are starving to upgrade. I can't be the only one who thinks--- "Ahh screw it! Everything is here, now, cheap and ready excect ATI, I'm buying now!"

With the recent AM2 and C2D price drops, which just took place NOW (not next month) THIS IS THE TIME TO BUY for many!


Are you actually insisting that I wait another month or more on my crappy PC?

I have a strong feeling, that ATI's new cards will not be a giant leap over Nvidia in price to performance, except maybe on the highest end card which I could never afford anyways. I think this is a perfectly reasonable statement, and I stand by it.

I love ATI. But I need a new rig, and I need it now! Why talk about this here? Well, I thought that is what this place was for? Opinions and discussion? I was hoping to get some incredible info\evidence I had not seen before, that would make me think twice before buying a 8800GTS but so far, I have not seen anything conclusive enough to change my mind. :wink:
April 23, 2007 6:49:29 PM

Quote:
That oblivion screen shot isn't far off from what I am seeing right now when I try to play it 8O
Nvidia must have given you one of those magic 6600GTs then. :roll:
a b U Graphics card
April 23, 2007 7:11:37 PM

Quote:

please link your data or stfu
i just logged off of WOW to read your BS.


What data were you looking for, I think i's all contained pretty much in the link to that thread above.

As for the GMA95/X3000 vs the G80/R600, I don't know if anyone's bothered to put them head to head, but based on it's performance versus the GF7300 and X1300 I don't expect it to be a gamer card.

Quote:
please list the system you use to play wow on


I don't play WOW, but I bet my MRX700 pummels your X3000 into the ground and it's 2 years old.

Quote:
in short i spent way less than you on my near silent system and i have been playing whatever games i want to play.


I doubt you spent way less, I doubt you spent much less at all, and I bet mine's even more silent. But considering your tripe about waiting for the R600 and buying a G80, what, did you decide to wait some more and simply BS'ed the whole thread?

Quote:
go buy your $500 video card you lemming!


You know I've heard that before, and coming from the Knob who said he was done waiting for the R600 and was gonna rush out an buy the G80, your the ones stating the interest in the $500 cards and not interested in waiting for their price to drop, so either YOU are the lemming or more likely a troll who's spamming the forum with your BS about waiting for anything.

Quote:
buy your 550W PSU too and all the fans


I already have a 500W PSU left over from a previous rig, but I don't need it, and if you were considering the R600 and switching to a G80 what are you going to run that on, fairy dust? :roll:

Quote:
find your old laptop. i would suggest you compair the X3000 to the new amd integrated graphics instead of flamming me.


I don't need to compare anything to know that your original post was FUD about waiting too long for the R600, then not actually following through with a G80 buy, yet beaking off about $500 cards and bg PSUs.

Considering your defence of the X3000 as a gamer, and your location of Folsom, I detect a little intel bent in your statements. Especially waiting on the dream of intel discrete. :roll:

One of the intel minions sent out to flood the forums are you?
Or do you just work with them and feel the need to promote them?
Sure seems like it from your FUDy posts in here.
April 23, 2007 7:46:31 PM

Quote:


go buy your $500 video card you lemming!
buy your 550W PSU too and all the fans


Look who's talking, Mr. I'm tired of waiting for R600 gunna go buy a G80. What a hypocrite... :roll:

EDIT:D OH! Grape beat me to it.
April 23, 2007 7:49:05 PM

Quote:
in short i spent way less than you on my near silent system and i have been playing whatever games i want to play.

go buy your $500 video card you lemming!
buy your 550W PSU too and all the fans

I hate to pull a Robs, but does Oblivion look like this on your card?


Shame on you.

Not only for attempting to pull a "STFU Robs" but also for getting it wrong as well.

You forgot to include a Fraps fps record in the screen shot (note that this must be at least 3 figures).

:p 


:lol:  :lol:  :lol: 
a b U Graphics card
April 23, 2007 8:04:44 PM

If you know the price/performance of the new ATI cards, fess up here, as wed all like to know just what theyre offering for what price. You have your nVidia solution for your "reasonable" card, the 8600, which is overpriced and underperforms price/performance. Since you mention reasonable cards then the 88s must not be what youre waiting for. I wont recommend a 8600 due to the price/performance, and if you cant wait another 3 weeks or so, then youre stuck with youre 6600. Or you can shell out 200+ for a 8600, and get better performance than you currently have. If the 2600 comes out in 3 weeks and kills the 8600, well you still have your 8600, which will be a "reasonable" situation, since you couldnt wait 3 weeks and is currently better than your current situation. So since everything is currently cheaper now, I dont see the problem, go out and get the 8600gts, and be happy
April 23, 2007 8:18:11 PM

Quote:
Geezz guys.Still no games out quite yet that run on dx10 and you simply can't wait to see what ATI pulls out of its hat.Ok,but I'll keep waiting just to be sure I'm making the right choice in buying an NVIDIA card.

Dahak


Hey dahak,

Maybe there is no DX 10 games yet, but I have had my 8800 GTS ever since November 2006 and it has been tearing up those dx9 graphics like no ATI card could. So while I may have had no use for those dx10 features over the past 6 months, when the games do start hitting, I am ready to go. And this whole time I have been waiting on the dx10 gaming to come, I have been looking at games in ways you can only dream about and MAYBE you will get to see when AMD/ATI's vaporware finally appears.

crim
April 23, 2007 8:36:33 PM



Hey dahak....


just ignore dahak, he can't even make a sig! :p 
April 23, 2007 8:48:50 PM

Quote:
You have your nVidia solution for your "reasonable" card, the 8600, which is overpriced and underperforms price/performance. Since you mention reasonable cards then the 88s must not be what youre waiting for. I wont recommend a 8600 due to the price/performance, and if you cant wait another 3 weeks or so, then youre stuck with youre 6600


The 8600gts seems fair performance for $200 or am I missing something here? Seriously was I looking at the wrong benchmarks? I saw 7900GTX comparable performance and better than x1950pro.

Quote:
So while I may have had no use for those dx10 features over the past 6 months, when the games do start hitting, I am ready to go. And this whole time I have been waiting on the dx10 gaming to come, I have been looking at games in ways you can only dream about and MAYBE you will get to see when AMD/ATI's vaporware finally appears.


Crysis isn't released yet, so Ati is stupid for not releasing their DX10 card before it's worth releasing? Pure speculation here but maybe they do actually have something impressive coming, especially with the physics integrated, that will run Crysis well enough to make it a winner, if not in FPS but in terms of overall quality. Seems possible to me that Ati, couldn't release their card directly after a merger and instead waited until it was ready to be produced and shipped with full attention. No, I don't believe the "we'll wait and release all versions at once, but we're really ready to go." either. I know for a fact the merger has been a logistical pain, and it hurt them certainly in at least the short term, that's not a surprise or news. Nor is it a coincidence that they wait until the demos of Barcelona and low and behold both seem to be ready at about the same time.

Also, how can something be vaporware the day it is being demonstrated? Can we at least wait for the results? Do you have a time machine or has nvidia given you some magic kool-aid? Having an impressive card now, doesn't mean forever. Nvidia/Ati dominance has bounced back and forth since 3dfx was out of the picture, why do you really expect that it won't be the same old same old?
April 23, 2007 9:10:59 PM

Quote:

The 8600gts seems fair performance for $200 or am I missing something here? Seriously was I looking at the wrong benchmarks? I saw 7900GTX comparable performance and better than x1950pro.


In most things that I've seen the 8600 GTS seems to do worse than the X1950 PRO once AA & AF are enabled.
April 23, 2007 9:23:34 PM

I too am fed up with waiting and using my current card (seriously, don't ask).

Which is why I am buying an 8800GTS 320 at the end of this week. I agree with your "guesstimation", lol. Same conclusion here, and all the ATI/AMD fanboys can just shut up and wait till there's some hard product out there to comment on. Sure, I may regret it (I doubt it though), but given the card I have right now, getting bang for my buck and a big improvement NOW is probably going to far outweigh not having r600.
April 23, 2007 9:37:48 PM

Quote:
Also, how can something be vaporware the day it is being demonstrated? Can we at least wait for the results? Do you have a time machine or has nvidia given you some magic kool-aid? Having an impressive card now, doesn't mean forever. Nvidia/Ati dominance has bounced back and forth since 3dfx was out of the picture, why do you really expect that it won't be the same old same old?


What i meant was, up to this point (Even today) it is still vaporware because all R600 talk has just been that... TALK! There is no tangible performance numbers to go by and it was suppose to have been released a few times already! And I am fully aware of the Nvidia/Ati doiminace bouncing back and forth since forever ago. Infact, i would go far enough enough to say that I was an ATi fanboy up until a few months ago. I bought a Nvidia card at the time because I was ready for a new card and ATi was not ready to take my money. Thanks and come again.

crim
April 23, 2007 9:43:55 PM

Quote:
I too am fed up with waiting and using my current card (seriously, don't ask).

Which is why I am buying an 8800GTS 320 at the end of this week. I agree with your "guesstimation", lol. Same conclusion here, and all the ATI/AMD fanboys can just shut up and wait till there's some hard product out there to comment on. Sure, I may regret it (I doubt it though), but given the card I have right now, getting bang for my buck and a big improvement NOW is probably going to far outweigh not having r600.


If any gamer is too timid to buy a video card, cpu, motherboard, etc for fear that something better might come out or the price might drop, I suggest buy a console.
Better stuff comes out, prices drop, it's a fact of pc gaming life.
Try not to think about it too much because there's absolutely nothing you can do about it.
Few things are actual investments.
A good water-cooling rig, or 3rd party HSF that has the ability to be modified as architecture changes.. a solid PSU... maybe... as they get used and older it's hard to judge reliability...
Point is a "waste" of money is only what you make of it. I have a formerly $400 x1950xtx that barely outperforms a 8800gts 320mb in many cases and I could've bought a 8800gts (if it were out) at the same price of a much faster 8800gts and be seeing vista in all it's dx10 glory... of course, I kid, the point is, just get it over with and buy it and join the moaning of the rest of us as this happens every...
damn...
day.
Enjoy what you have now and roll your eyes at all the hindsight is 20/20 people about how they made a "smarter" choice as if they knew what was going on the whole time because suddenly they're experts and not come lately fanboys.
a b U Graphics card
April 23, 2007 9:46:40 PM

Ive got benchies that show the 8600< 7950GT by 20%. To me those arent great numbers, and for 210 US it needs to come down more, certainly more than 20 dollars
April 24, 2007 12:01:50 AM

I've been tempted to stop waiting and buy an 8800, for the same reasons that others have said. However, I have been waiting too long to buy one before ATI's lineup comes out. Another month or two of waiting won't kill me, and ATI might just trump Nvidia's current lineup.
a b U Graphics card
April 24, 2007 12:21:30 AM

Quote:

at work though thats a different story.
i am going to need massive render capabilities for what we are doing so was considering the R600. getting worried now cause it gets pushed out may have to use the 8800


Yeah, and for some reason I just don't buy it, just like the concept that any company would wait for unknown hardware R600 and then to even mention the intel discrete. :roll:

I often plan out the hardware and software in our company and while we contact companies for information on upcoming extensions of current products (like I have for Matrox, SIS and S3), we don't rely on unreleased products in any capacity, and if we plan on buying them we don't switch mid-stream because the planning process is so involved. And you mention intel discrete, there's no way a company is relying on intel discrete in any capacity at this point in time. And in addition mentioning the $500card and 500W powersupply isn't any more/less valid because it's a business expense versus personal expense/setup. If it fills a role and either can afford it then how is your business need any more valid? :roll:

Seriously you make no sense other than to write you off as a FUD spammer.
April 24, 2007 12:30:07 AM

Quote:
I've been tempted to stop waiting and buy an 8800, for the same reasons that others have said. However, I have been waiting too long to buy one before ATI's lineup comes out. Another month or two of waiting won't kill me, and ATI might just trump Nvidia's current lineup.


if ati doesn't trump nvidias lineup, doesn't that mean amd/ati are completely fucked?

it's been over half a year and they still have no response in the high end or DX10? i waited because i thought ati might be better, but also because i thought they would have better integration with vista, because it would release after vista was out, meaning really good drivers. ati absolutely has to deliver....

the R600 has to blow away the 8800....
a b U Graphics card
April 24, 2007 12:32:33 AM

Agreed, businesses have to make money now, be ready now for their customers now. An unresolved future to do business is crazy. Arent there alot of posts concerning ATI/AMD about just this subject? :wink:
a b U Graphics card
April 24, 2007 12:43:45 AM

Quote:
I've been tempted to stop waiting and buy an 8800, for the same reasons that others have said. However, I have been waiting too long to buy one before ATI's lineup comes out. Another month or two of waiting won't kill me, and ATI might just trump Nvidia's current lineup.


the unfortunate thing is that the best time to buy a GF8800GTX was when it came out and benefit from all the awesome gameplay up until now, and if you check that far back you'll see me recommend both the GTS and GTX, and tell people forget about waiting for the R600, and buy an eVGA to potentially benefit from a GF8800 upgraded reply should an R600 ship.

However at this point on the eve of the R600 launch and GF8800 prices cuts (although I doubt the GTS-320 will come down much), then it's the worst time to jump into the ring. Even still going with the GF8800GTX or GTS-640, a short wait to watch prices potentially drop drop 20+% is worthwhile IMO.

IMO it's like running a marathon 25 3/4 miles and then quiting the race within sight of the finish line.

If your target is the GTS-320, then IMO, you're unlikely to get much in price drops to make you feel alot of remorse, and it's a solid card for the price, so go ahead and buy if there's some games you feel will benefit from the boost now. But any other GF8800 would make me think twice before comitting to something that is likely to drop in price, let alone value in the near term.
April 24, 2007 1:33:04 AM

Great minds think alike Ape :p .
It's pretty simple, if you're a pc gamer you have to live with the knowledge of price drops or better stuff happening all the time. Most of the time you just bite the bullet and let the enjoyment of having something really sweet outweigh the later remorse. Or, again just jump off and buy a console. If you wait wait wait, you'll wait forever.
However, waiting for months for the r600 results only to stop now is just silly.

And, no, if it's not better than the 8800gtx/s, ATI is not f'd.
There is much more to the graphical world than the fastest desktop card that a fraction of the computer world actually buys.

Their credibility on the top-end of gaming graphics on the other hand will be sorely tarnished for months for sure and could effect their offering after that.

If it's not "faster" they better hope all the extra physics and hdmi bells and whistles are very bell-y and whistle-y.
!