How Did THIS Happen?

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.operation-flashpoint (More info?)

http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/media/groundwarrior/issues/Summer02/nobrass.htm

When firing blanks for the MILES system, you have a blank adapter on the end
of your barrel; otherwise, the action won't cycle because gases encounter no
resistance causing them to expel down the gas tube and push the bolt carrier
assembly backwards.

In other words, if you fired live ammo with the blank adapter on the bullet
would run smack into the blank adapter (which acts like somewhat of a barrel
plug). I shudder to think what the result would be!

Story has some serious kinks in it, if you ask me.

 

[unkn2232324]

Archived from groups: alt.games.operation-flashpoint (More info?)

This could have happened before rifle plugs we're put into place on the
ranges. OR this has happened to me, they ran out of rifle plugs for your
squad or platoon. Which happens all the time. Even if u do have a plug on
it, the ones we had we're just hard pieces of plastic over the end of the
barrel. Hardly something that could have stopped a round. But the shooter
would have noticed something after firing a round. Like having no plug at
the end of his barrel. Of course this was back in 1990 when I was in...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.operation-flashpoint (More info?)

Beside the fact that firing a blank through a barrel without a blank adapter
sounds TOTALLY different from firing a live round... Any soldier through
Basic Training would know the diff.


"Uziyahu" <NNOSPAMMuziyahu@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:KTJxd.135840$8G4.118203@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
> http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/media/groundwarrior/issues/Summer02/nobrass.htm
>
> When firing blanks for the MILES system, you have a blank adapter on the
> end of your barrel; otherwise, the action won't cycle because gases
> encounter no resistance causing them to expel down the gas tube and push
> the bolt carrier assembly backwards.
>
> In other words, if you fired live ammo with the blank adapter on the
> bullet would run smack into the blank adapter (which acts like somewhat of
> a barrel plug). I shudder to think what the result would be!
>
> Story has some serious kinks in it, if you ask me.
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.operation-flashpoint (More info?)

Oy! The ones we used were metal and were firmly affixed to the flash-hider.
No way those babies were coming off unless with explosive force.

http://home.comcast.net/~gunglossary/img/blankfiring2.jpg


"G" <geez@myhome.net> wrote in message
news:10sero0ftqcepc2@news.supernews.com...
> This could have happened before rifle plugs we're put into place on the
> ranges. OR this has happened to me, they ran out of rifle plugs for your
> squad or platoon. Which happens all the time. Even if u do have a plug on
> it, the ones we had we're just hard pieces of plastic over the end of the
> barrel. Hardly something that could have stopped a round. But the shooter
> would have noticed something after firing a round. Like having no plug at
> the end of his barrel. Of course this was back in 1990 when I was in...
>
>

 

[unkn2232324]

Archived from groups: alt.games.operation-flashpoint (More info?)

the ones we had used a clam on method and we're very light. I don't doubt
metals plugs. but we never used them in my platoon. of course all of our
gear we had, was OLD used gear. I'm talking bowl helmets and Nam alice packs
and utility belt to, lol. no kevlar helmets for us. I fired the m16-a1's,
that was the weapon given to me in training. they didn't have enough to go
around or the other gear either. same old same old and it's still
happening today, I hate to say. basicly we "hand me downs" gear...

 

[rats]

Archived from groups: alt.games.operation-flashpoint (More info?)

Sadly, it can and does happen. I know of a night patrol and ambush exercise
where a BFA was fitted (to an SLR) and a supposedly blank round effectively
blew the weapon apart. The barrel exploded and the "working parts"
disappeared backwards under his right armpit. Luckily, the young lad in
question lived to tell the tale as he was firing on the move and had not
brought the SLR up into the Aim.

Reason - they'd been on the ranges using live ammunition the day before and,
although pouch checks and declarations had been made, the soldier had
forgotten the live "mis-fed" round he'd picked up and put in his trouser
pocket !.





"Uziyahu" <NNOSPAMMuziyahu@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:KTJxd.135840$8G4.118203@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
> http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/media/groundwarrior/issues/Summer02/nobrass.htm
>
> When firing blanks for the MILES system, you have a blank adapter on the
> end of your barrel; otherwise, the action won't cycle because gases
> encounter no resistance causing them to expel down the gas tube and push
> the bolt carrier assembly backwards.
>
> In other words, if you fired live ammo with the blank adapter on the
> bullet would run smack into the blank adapter (which acts like somewhat of
> a barrel plug). I shudder to think what the result would be!
>
> Story has some serious kinks in it, if you ask me.
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.operation-flashpoint (More info?)

Yeah, it was the same for me in Basic Training in 1986.

We still had A1's in Alaska until about 1988, but I had a Kevlar as soon as
I got to Alaska.


"G" <geez@myhome.net> wrote in message
news:10sg24mb6toqi98@news.supernews.com...
> the ones we had used a clam on method and we're very light. I don't doubt
> metals plugs. but we never used them in my platoon. of course all of our
> gear we had, was OLD used gear. I'm talking bowl helmets and Nam alice
> packs and utility belt to, lol. no kevlar helmets for us. I fired the
> m16-a1's, that was the weapon given to me in training. they didn't have
> enough to go around or the other gear either. same old same old and
> it's still happening today, I hate to say. basicly we "hand me downs"
> gear...
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.operation-flashpoint (More info?)

I think the obvious solution here is to fit an attachment to the gun that
only allows non live fire clips to be loaded when on an exercise...

I am sure live round clips and blank clips can be made similar but slightly
differently so live rounds do not fit in to the recepticle attachment on an
excercise...

Seems simple to me...

Domestos

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.operation-flashpoint (More info?)

Back in the old days when I was in the army the live rounds where metal, the
blanks where plastic (and black). If you can't see the difference you must
be blind and not serve in the army

--
-
Jan van Zanten, aka NedFox <TZW>
-
A lecture is a process where information is passed from the notebook of the
lecturer to the notebook of the student without necessarily passing through
the minds of either.
-
"Domestos" <never.you@mind> schreef in bericht
news:qB2yd.747$6B.568@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
>I think the obvious solution here is to fit an attachment to the gun that
> only allows non live fire clips to be loaded when on an exercise...
>
> I am sure live round clips and blank clips can be made similar but
> slightly
> differently so live rounds do not fit in to the recepticle attachment on
> an
> excercise...
>
> Seems simple to me...
>
> Domestos
>
>
>

 

[rats]

Archived from groups: alt.games.operation-flashpoint (More info?)

Might SOUND simple - but then you are talking additional expense !. Plus,
for your system to work 100% of the time, which it must if there's any point
in adopting it, it would also involve the additional storage space and admin
time needed for EVERYONE involved in an exercise to have several Magazines
(Clips) and (probably fiddly) "attachments" that can be used for no other
purpose. Simple end-of-barrel Blank Firing Attachments have been around for
a while and work well when proper care is taken.

Procedures cost nothing and therefore the loss of a life here or there is
probably deemed acceptable by treasury officials when weighed on the balance
of expense v. safety - sad but true.

Not to mention that there's nothing on the planet that's truly soldier-proof
!


"Domestos" <never.you@mind> wrote in message
news:qB2yd.747$6B.568@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
>I think the obvious solution here is to fit an attachment to the gun that
> only allows non live fire clips to be loaded when on an exercise...
>
> I am sure live round clips and blank clips can be made similar but
> slightly
> differently so live rounds do not fit in to the recepticle attachment on
> an
> excercise...
>
> Seems simple to me...
>
> Domestos
>
>
>

 

[Tony]

Archived from groups: alt.games.operation-flashpoint (More info?)

To prevent this kind of accident, the British Army has a re-designed Blank
Firing Adaptor and also introduced magazines that are modified so that live
rounds cannot be put into them. The BFA is still bright yellow and the
magazines are maked with broad yellow bands to show that they are for blanks
only.

T

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.operation-flashpoint (More info?)

"Tony" <anthonykitchen@spam.msn.com> wrote in message
news:cqbruc$asg$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> To prevent this kind of accident, the British Army has a re-designed Blank
> Firing Adaptor and also introduced magazines that are modified so that
live
> rounds cannot be put into them. The BFA is still bright yellow and the
> magazines are maked with broad yellow bands to show that they are for
blanks
> only.
>
> T
>
>

Thats exactly what I meant !!! Have there been any accidents with this sytem
in place?

Domestos

 

[Tony]

Archived from groups: alt.games.operation-flashpoint (More info?)

afaik, no, havent seen anything in safety or training bulletins.

Safety distances are enforced though when firing blank rounds. Min distance
of 10m for military personnel and minimum distance of 100m for civilian
personnel - Why are civvies using SA80 and blanks??? I dont know!!

T

"Domestos" <never.you@mind> wrote in message
news:Zbfyd.165$N97.48@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
>
> "Tony" <anthonykitchen@spam.msn.com> wrote in message
> news:cqbruc$asg$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
>> To prevent this kind of accident, the British Army has a re-designed
>> Blank
>> Firing Adaptor and also introduced magazines that are modified so that
> live
>> rounds cannot be put into them. The BFA is still bright yellow and the
>> magazines are maked with broad yellow bands to show that they are for
> blanks
>> only.
>>
>> T
>>
>>
>
> Thats exactly what I meant !!! Have there been any accidents with this
> sytem
> in place?
>
> Domestos
>
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.operation-flashpoint (More info?)

"NedFox <TZW>" <neddy@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:d5d28$41c8b9f9$3e3aefe0$12653@news1.zonnet.nl:

> Back in the old days when I was in the army the live rounds where
> metal, the blanks where plastic (and black). If you can't see the
> difference you must be blind and not serve in the army
>

As a soldier I spent more worrying about so called "friendly" or "blue-on-
blue" so came to the conclusion that in fact all other soldiers and ground
attack pilots are in fact totally blind.
Agreed, ground attack pilots should not be let out without a consenting
adult but hey, ours is not to reason why etc...

_______________________________________________________________________________
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[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.operation-flashpoint (More info?)

During my time with the ACF (UK Army Cadet Force), we used the L98A1 Cadet
GP a single shot bolt action version of the SA80 it fired blanks without a
BFA as there was no need for the working parts to "re-cock" I think we were
not supposed to fire aiming at someone under 25m day and 50m at night. we
were told to fire in the air, not sure if these were official rules or just
my county's safety rules.

Often we had the use of the LSW an extended barrel version of the SA80 that
needed a BFA for blank, i saw one fly off once and impale in a tree hadnt
been tightend correctly.

never heard of anyone firing a live round into a BFA surely the barrel would
actually spilt and the gas parts of the weapon fly off?

BLiCK aka NiGi

"Tony" <anthonykitchen@spam.msn.com> wrote in message
news:cqd08d$hdg$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> afaik, no, havent seen anything in safety or training bulletins.
>
> Safety distances are enforced though when firing blank rounds. Min
> distance of 10m for military personnel and minimum distance of 100m for
> civilian personnel - Why are civvies using SA80 and blanks??? I dont
> know!!
>
> T
>
> "Domestos" <never.you@mind> wrote in message
> news:Zbfyd.165$N97.48@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
>>
>> "Tony" <anthonykitchen@spam.msn.com> wrote in message
>> news:cqbruc$asg$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
>>> To prevent this kind of accident, the British Army has a re-designed
>>> Blank
>>> Firing Adaptor and also introduced magazines that are modified so that
>> live
>>> rounds cannot be put into them. The BFA is still bright yellow and the
>>> magazines are maked with broad yellow bands to show that they are for
>> blanks
>>> only.
>>>
>>> T
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Thats exactly what I meant !!! Have there been any accidents with this
>> sytem
>> in place?
>>
>> Domestos
>>
>>
>>
>
>