Bob, A couple of questions for you.

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

<. Snipped from another post that was getting long: >


> Bob Miller wrote:
> COFDM has created a firestorm of activity in each country that has
>deployed it except Australia.



Bob, I have some questions for you!



Do these other countries have 8-VSB? Do they have the competition
that you so tout? Or, Is it a fact that they are as STUCK with COFDM
as you claim that we are with 8-VSB, and actually don't they don't
have a choice between the two?



That would actually mean that you actually can't compare how well that
the receivers are selling, can you?



Another little stat that needs to be settled, how many users in each
country actually receive their signals by what means. What % OTA,
Cable, Satellite? As you know, here in the USA cable and satellite
supplies >70% of the homes with television. What is the penetration
rate of cable and satellite in these other countries? This would make
a large difference in the actual number of OTA receivers sold.



Please Bob, don't bend the data with incomplete stats. You have to
supply the complete stats, tell the complete truth, both sides. All
that you tout is very one-sided.



Russ

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Bob Miller" <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:iarod.1365$NU3.1329@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
: kw5kw wrote:
: > <. Snipped from another post that was getting long: >
: >
: >
: >>Bob Miller wrote:
: >>COFDM has created a firestorm of activity in each country that has
: >>deployed it except Australia.>
: >
: > Bob, I have some questions for you!
: > >
: > Do these other countries have 8-VSB? Do they have the competition
: > that you so tout? Or, Is it a fact that they are as STUCK with
COFDM
: > as you claim that we are with 8-VSB, and actually don't they don't
: > have a choice between the two?
:
: Australia and Taiwan originally chose 8-VSB. Taiwan officially
adopted
: 8-VSB as their national modulation. They both then switched to
COFDM.
: There was a competition between COFDM and 8-VSB in some countries
before
: it became obvious that COFDM was far better. Argentina also went
from
: 8-VSB to setting on the fence. Brazil rejected 8-VSB and is in the
: process of choosing between COFDM DVB-T and ISDB-T. Though there is
an
: outside chance that they can be persuaded (bribed) to consider 8-VSB
: again. >
: >
: > That would actually mean that you actually can't compare how well
that
: > the receivers are selling, can you?
: >
: >
: The only direct comparison at the consumer level would be a stretch,
: XMRadio and Sirius against 8-VSB in the US. Sales of XM and Sirius
are
: far better than 8-VSB. People buy receivers that work. They will buy
5th
: gen 8-VSB receivers for that very reason.

Just go to www.xmfan.com, www.xm411.com and www.siriusbackstage.com
and read all of the threads about lousy reception and compression
issues and artifacts. Users are not as universally happy with the
recepiton of either service. There are hundreds of threads about the
recption issues and need of local repeaters (or lack thereof) to make
the services work.

Don't get me wrong. I'm an XM subscriber. I live in Dallas/ Fort
Worth, (with San Diego the first market to receive XM service) and
have been a loyal subscriber of theirs since day one. I've had the
Sony PNP (1st gen), the Pioneer 903, the Delphi SkiFi, and now I have
it in my new 2005 Chevrolet Monte Carlo with a 5 year paid
subscription for my SkiFi and my Monte Carlo. I love being able to
receive my satellite radio while driving from Fort Worth to see my
daughter in Sacramento, Ca! It's great being able to receive the same
radio station no matter where you are! But, the sound quality is not
up to that of CD or analog FM. If that's the modulation you tout so
highly, I'm sure glad that 8-VSB is what television is going with here
in the good ole USofA.

Russ
: >
: > Another little stat that needs to be settled, how many users in
each
: > country actually receive their signals by what means. What % OTA,
: > Cable, Satellite? As you know, here in the USA cable and
satellite
: > supplies >70% of the homes with television. What is the
penetration
: > rate of cable and satellite in these other countries? This would
make
: > a large difference in the actual number of OTA receivers sold.
:
: In the UK they have 25 million households and one satellite
provider,
: SKY, has between 7 and 8 million subscribers. Don't know what the
cable
: stats are. Berlin has 95% penetration of cable and satellite and
they
: had 13% of their households with OTA COFDM receivers after only 9
: months. Japan has about 58% cable and satellite penetration compared
to
: our 90%.
: >
: > Please Bob, don't bend the data with incomplete stats. You have
to
: > supply the complete stats, tell the complete truth, both sides.
All
: > that you tout is very one-sided.
: >
:
: The most telling statistic in the US is the high price of cable and
: satellite. Consumers have been held hostage by these operators and
their
: control of Congress. Witness last weeks FCC message that there is no
: merit in ala carte. There will be choice in the OTA future.
:
: OTA will become a major competitor to both with the 5th gen receiver
and
: with the introduction of COFDM on channels still held hostage by the
: stagnate 8-VSB transition. In a few months Congress will set a hard
: deadline for the transition, January 1st 2009 and the FCC will then
hold
: auctions next year of channel above 51 that have not been auctioned.
New
: operators will then begin to negotiate an early departure for
incumbent
: broadcasters on those channels. Early players are Qualcomm and Crown
: Castle. There will be more.
:
: You will also see more "OTA" delivery via wireless WiMax. Also don't
: forget FTTH which is just beginning. OTA will have to change. They,
: cable and satellite will have more competition. The current
broadcasters
: cannot survive with their current business plan and a crippled
8-VSB, no
: mobile reception, puts then at a disadvantage with new competitors.
All
: their old and new competitors will have more bandwidth. They do not.
: Some of their new competitors will be able to offer mobile reception
: while they are able to deliver fixed reception just as well as
current
: broadcasters. Current knowledgeable broadcasters are already
awakening
: from their "must carry" drug induced sleep. If they didn't already
they
: will soon realize that 8-VSB is a boat anchor.
:
: Well before 2009 OTA will change for the better with both COFDM and
8-VSB.
:
: Bob Miller
: >
: > Russ
: >
: >
: >
:

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Bob Miller" <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:e_tod.1480$NU3.553@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
: kw5kw wrote:
: >
: > Just go to www.xmfan.com, www.xm411.com and
www.siriusbackstage.com
: > and read all of the threads about lousy reception and compression
: > issues and artifacts. Users are not as universally happy with the
: > recepiton of either service. There are hundreds of threads about
the
: > recption issues and need of local repeaters (or lack thereof) to
make
: > the services work.
:
: The local repeaters that "make the services work" are the only part
of
: the system that is COFDM.
:
: You rely on satellite for vast areas with repeaters only around
major
: cities. These repeaters like the satellite signal are in a much
higher
: frequency than OTA DTV lives in. This higher frequency requires much
: smaller cells or more power per transmitter by a factor of 20 or
more
: than would a similar COFDM broadcast in 700 MHz DTV spectrum for
instance.
:
: Just two items that make a comparison of any kind to be seriously
: insane. My comparison was only to mention that XM and Sirius did not
and
: would not be able to use 8-VSB and to show that using COFDM allows
for a
: business model that is successful.
:
: If you were to test reception in the coverage area of any of XM or
: Sirius's COFDM repeaters I think you would be pleasantly surprised
by
: how good it is. Neither XM or Sirius have a business plan that would
: work if they did not have COFDM.
: >
: > Don't get me wrong. I'm an XM subscriber. I live in Dallas/ Fort
: > Worth, (with San Diego the first market to receive XM service) and
: > have been a loyal subscriber of theirs since day one. I've had
the
: > Sony PNP (1st gen), the Pioneer 903, the Delphi SkiFi, and now I
have
: > it in my new 2005 Chevrolet Monte Carlo with a 5 year paid
: > subscription for my SkiFi and my Monte Carlo. I love being able
to
: > receive my satellite radio while driving from Fort Worth to see my
: > daughter in Sacramento, Ca! It's great being able to receive the
same
: > radio station no matter where you are! But, the sound quality is
not
: > up to that of CD or analog FM. If that's the modulation you tout
so
: > highly, I'm sure glad that 8-VSB is what television is going with
here
: > in the good ole USofA.
:
: The sound quality of XM or Sirius has nothing to do with COFDM
: modulation. It has to do with the amount of spectrum that they allot
per
: radio program and the amount of compression that they use. COFDM has
to
: do with the reception or non reception of the signal. This is just
as
: true with 8-VSB. The quality of the HD that is broadcast has nothing
to
: do with the modulation.
:
: The total amount of bits that XM or Sirius can deliver in their
alloted
: spectrum is 4 Mbps.Everything you receive from XM or Sirius is
crammed
: into that minuscule bandwidth. In a 6 MHz DTV channel 8-VSB can
deliver
: 19.34 Mbps and COFDM can deliver 19.76 Mbps. COFDM has a slight
: advantage in bits but the real advantage is that COFDM can manage
: multipath signals to its advantage actually increasing the signal
: strength by adding the dynamic and static multipath signal strength
to
: the main signal.
:
: Part of our COFDM broadcast plan is to deliver 12 free audio
channels
: (radio) mobile along with our video programming. Each of our digital
: radio channels will be allocated 128 kbps using AAC+. Compare to sub
60
: kbps for the best music channels on XM or Sirius using EPAC or
whatever
: and probably 15 kbps for voice.
:
: All of our coverage will be terrestrial COFDM, no satellite.
:
: You want to compare COFDM to whatever you have to go to Finland,
Tokyo,
: Singapore, Sydney, Moscow, Beging, Berlin or a hundred other places
for
: the real thing with coverage maps. I don't think Sirius or XM will
: divulge their coverage maps for you.

real quick before I go home for the day...
Roll's Footprint... http://www.xmfan.com/album_page.php?pic_id=9
Rock's Footprint... http://www.xmfan.com/album_page.php?pic_id=8
:
: Bob Miller
: >
: > Russ
:

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Show me where Australia originally chose 8VSB?

"Bob Miller" <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:iarod.1365$NU3.1329@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> Australia and Taiwan originally chose 8-VSB.

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

>I was not specific enough. I have numerous times been specific.

Sure BOB, sure.

>But Australia never officially adopted
>8-VSB. Taiwan officially chose 8-VSB and then switched.

Must have been those corrupt politicians again!!! Right BOB? Oh, that's right,
politicians are only corrupt when they switch from COFDM or originally choose
8VSB.