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Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. to Offer $1.8 Billion of Conver

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Last response: in CPUs
April 23, 2007 9:57:17 PM

More about : advanced micro devices offer billion conver

April 23, 2007 10:11:00 PM

Quote:
$1.8 billion aggregate principal amount of Convertible Senior Notes in a private offering to qualified institutional buyers pursuant to Rule 144A under the Securities Act of 1933, as amended. Under certain circumstances, the notes are convertible into cash up to the principal amount and into shares of AMD’s common stock with respect to any conversion value above the principal amount.

Someone put this in plain English please.
April 23, 2007 10:17:04 PM

Someone gives AMD cash they receive an IOU in return, is basically what it amounts to I think.
Related resources
April 23, 2007 10:18:44 PM

Will this get them around having to give a very large chunk of it back to Morgan Stanley?
April 23, 2007 10:21:03 PM

No,

Quote:
AMD expects to use at least $500 million of the remaining net proceeds of the offering to repay a portion of the term loan AMD entered into with Morgan Stanley Senior Funding, Inc. to finance a portion of the purchase price of, and expenses related to, the acquisition of ATI Technologies Inc.
April 23, 2007 10:24:16 PM

Quote:
Will this get them around having to give a very large chunk of it back to Morgan Stanley?


Quote:
Proceeds from the offering are expected to be used to pay off a portion of a term loan AMD entered into with Morgan Stanley Senior Funding, to finance part of its acquisition of ATI Technologies, and to pay the cost of the capped call transactions.


http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070423/amd_notes_offering.html?...

Nope, they'll have to use most of the money to pay back their original debt to Morgan Stanley. It looks like they will end up with about $600Million in cash flow at the end of the day, and another $1.8billion in Debt.

Though I sure hope they pull it off, it seems like another shovel full of dirt from the grave, as they clearly demonstrated it only takes them one quarter to burn though $600M in cash (hi2u Q1'07).
April 23, 2007 10:26:00 PM

Thanks - I didn't have time to read thru all of it - just sort of skimmed posted an ran...I can't see how this is a good thing for them...
April 23, 2007 10:33:38 PM

Doesnt this screw existing AMD shareholders? :o 
April 23, 2007 10:43:59 PM

Quote:
Doesn't this screw existing AMD shareholders? :o 

no

Not as simple as that vern.

By itself, yes it would screw existing stockholders, because since it is convertible debt, the owners could choose to convert them to shares of AMD, hence diluting existing shares. This is outside of the control of AMD once the debt is purchased.

However, AMD is also announced that they are using part of the money raised to keep existing shares from diluting through capped call transactions. Which basically reduces the usable cash AMD will get from this deal even more. They are basically keeping some of the cash aside to do stock repurchasing to keep the amount of floating public stock constant. The reason they announce this is so existing share holders don't dump their stock now, since they would otherwise be boned in the near future by people who don't necessarily have the long term health of AMD in their best interest.

Quote:
AMD said it would enter into capped call transactions in connection with the offering, a move intended to reduce the potential dilution to common stockholders if the notes are converted into shares.


The S&P did not like this move and just downgraded AMD's credit rating:

Quote:
Earlier on Monday, credit ratings agency Standard & Poor's downgraded AMD to "B", it's fifth-highest "junk" grade, citing "subpar" execution of its business and a tougher business environment.
April 23, 2007 10:47:07 PM

I'll break this down once I get home, gotta love SEC securities law.
April 23, 2007 10:54:41 PM

Hmmm, I wonder if anyone will take AMD up on its offer. Too bad AMD's credit rating was downgraded as a result of this.
April 23, 2007 10:56:49 PM

Yeah, it is amazing the money games big corporations are allowed to play that us mere citizens could never ever get away with.

Here is a funny scenario that of course would never ever happen:

Intel uses it's 1Q07 profit ($1.9Billion) to fund a shadow "private" corporation who buys ALL of the debt AMD is selling and then immediately chooses to convert it to shares of AMD, hence forcing AMD to keep their word and float capped calls to reduce the large dilution of existing share holders.

Intel ends up with $1.8 Billion in undiluted AMD stock, and AMD is left with nearly none of the original $1.8 Billion it just borrowed, especially because it is forced by prior legal agreement to immediately pay $500 Million to Morgan Stanley who otherwise has them by the balls and could start forcing them to sell off capital to pay them back.

The government would, of course, not allow any such behavior from Intel, but it does put their relative financial strengths in perspective to think that Intel could use its _profits_ from one quarter of operation to put AMD out of business.
April 23, 2007 11:00:06 PM

So, exactly how much money do I lose or gain or do I just sit and twiddle my thumbs still?
April 23, 2007 11:07:09 PM

Quote:
but thats an "IF Then" sceario which has got to meet eye to eye with primary shareholders and succumb to a dilution vote,its erroneous to assume its an instant tradeoff.


Oh yes, I completely agree, it isn't an instant trade off.

It is a risk associated with the terms of the debt offering, and AMD is trying to make sure that existing shareholders aren't spooked by that risk by saying that some of the cash will be kept aside to repurchase shared so they don't get diluted.

Ninja, I'm not really one to make recommendations about the stock market, though I like to study how it works and understand as much as I can for my own purchasing decisions.

If you don't need the cash, and currently own some of AMD, I'd twiddle away for a while longer and see how things pan out. I don't currently own a position on AMD though.
April 23, 2007 11:10:43 PM

Then twiddle I shall. I've got all the time in the world.
April 23, 2007 11:29:20 PM

Quote:
Doesnt this screw existing AMD shareholders? :o 

no

Sure it does. In several ways.

AMD, which already has a lot of debt, is taking on much more debt. Much more debt means it harder to ever get the company in the black.

Since S&P downgraded their credit rating again, and with a negative outlook, all that new debt is going to be at a very high interest rate indeed. Once again it will make it harder for AMD ever to get back into the black.

These bonds are gonna be a very hard sell, if they can be sold at all. Whoever is going to be doing the very hard work of persuading institutional investors to buy them sure ain't going to be doing it for free. Expect a 9 figure fee for the service.

If AMD does recover in spite of all this, convertable means major dilution if they company recovers and the stock starts to move up as bond holders convert their debt to shares.

Of course the alternative is a certain Chaper 11, and the stock going to zero. So I guess in that aspect it's certainly not screwing the existing shareholders.
April 23, 2007 11:36:41 PM



Ah, you are right, they updated the story:

Quote:
AMD would offer an initial amount of $1.8 billion in notes, with the interest rate, conversion price and other terms to be determined in negotiations. Initial purchasers will also have the option of buying an additional $400 million of notes.
a c 217 à CPUs
a c 154 À AMD
April 23, 2007 11:46:39 PM

Quote:
....It looks like they will end up with about $600Million in cash flow at the end of the day, and another $1.8billion in Debt.....

A nice round number like that almost sounds like a fab facility to me - - if AMD is going down they may as well try to do it with as much volume as they can . . .
April 24, 2007 12:33:37 AM

Quote:
] 1. Were not, when issued, of the same class as securities listed on a national securities exchange registered under section 6 of the Exchange Act or quoted in a U.S. automated inter-dealer quotation system; Provided, That securities that are convertible or exchangeable into securities so listed or quoted at the time of issuance and that had an effective conversion premium of less than 10 percent, shall be treated as securities of the class into which they are convertible or exchangeable; and that warrants that may be exercised for securities so listed or quoted at the time of issuance, for a period of less than 3 years from the date of issuance, or that had an effective exercise premium of less than 10 percent, shall be treated as securities of the class to be issued upon exercise; and Provided further, That the Commission may from time to time, taking into account then-existing market practices, designate additional securities and classes of securities that will not be deemed of the same class as securities listed on a national securities exchange or quoted in a U.S. automated inter-dealer quotation system; and

2. Are not securities of an open-end investment company, unit investment trust or face-amount certificate company that is or is required to be registered under section 8 of the Investment Company Act; and


Quote:
6). For purposes of this section, effective conversion premium means the amount, expressed as a percentage of the security's conversion value, by which the price at issuance of a convertible security exceeds its conversion value.


This means on the day of the quote the conversion value must be than 10% above convertible instrument issued. This can give us a ball park figure for the conversion price of this debt. $1.8B/X = 0 < Conversion Price < 110% of value of the security it is to be converted into (in this case AMD stock). Today AMD closed at $14/share, so 14/1.1 = 12.72. Thus we get 0 < Conversion Price < 12.72 (assuming the debt was issued today). Now, 1.8B/12.72 = 141,509,433 and if they issued the other 400M that number goes up to 172,955,974 shares. Note: This is a very rough estimate designed to give shareholders an idea of how many potential shares could be issued.

Quote:
Common stock, par value $0.01; 750 shares authorized; shares issued: 553 on December 31, 2006 and 442 on December 25, 2005; shares outstanding: 547


Ever wonder why AMD needed the extra 750 million shares? Here is why. 553M shares issued + ~175M shares this debt is likely to be convertible into = 728M shares issued... getting real close to the legal limit.

Note: AMD will likely establish a higher conversion price than 12.72, but the aforementioned scenario is a worst case scenario (ignoring a tender offer).

I am working on the capped call transaction.

damn typo's, nothing big.
April 24, 2007 12:36:21 AM

Quote:
....It looks like they will end up with about $600Million in cash flow at the end of the day, and another $1.8billion in Debt.....

A nice round number like that almost sounds like a fab facility to me - - if AMD is going down they may as well try to do it with as much volume as they can . . .

Very bad idea. AMD has a decent inventory turnover right now and is doing a moderate job in managing its level. They do not not need to piss away more cash and tying it up in inventory, it is best kept in cash form for OpEx purposes and helping AMD weather the rough seas until they can get R600 and Barcelona (and its respective derivatives) out the door.
April 24, 2007 1:26:36 AM

Quote:
After hours seems to have reacted to the news --- makes the rumor of courting a leveraged buy out less likely.


Well the question becomes who are they placing the debt with. The requirement under rule 144A is that the debt be placed with qualified institutional buyers which include PE firms of sufficient size. AMD has also done this in the past. Also, the general market took a step back today and lost 42 points, not a big loss, but trading did take a hit around 1pm. Yes, there will be a sell off (of minor sorts) but I am betting those are the people who want to minimize their loss. Those with lower buy-ins will stick around and probably see where this capped call transaction leaves them.

Which incidentally is better than no deal for the shareholders. A capped call is a traditional call plus a profit margin, so in a rough sense the call automatically executes once the stock rises above a specified price. In essence this stipulation is designed to minimize the impact on Earnings Per Share (there no dilutive effect on negative EPS). It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I am going to go play C & C 3.... just got it. :D 
April 24, 2007 1:44:08 AM

Quote:
When did their credit rating get downgraded, I missed that one:

However news of the offering comes after Standard & Poor's downgraded AMD's credit rating Monday to "B," its fifth-highest junk rating, making the additional debt more expensive.


http://www.forbes.com/2007/04/23/AMD-debt-offering-tech...

I think it was downgraded to the highest level of junk rating after their press release. I am pretty sure S&P that their finger poised to down grade it and were just waiting for a deb announcement to do. I am not entirely surprised. :?

I bet the interest rate on this debt gets very close to 10%...
a c 217 à CPUs
a c 154 À AMD
April 24, 2007 2:00:53 AM

Quote:
AMD has a decent inventory turnover right now and is doing a moderate job in managing its level.
No so sure about that . . . AMD inventory is at its highest level since the *heydays* of 2005. Beyond question their sales have slowed. The question in my mind is just what that inventory consists of . . .

Quote:
They do not not need to piss away more cash and tying it up in inventory


How long do you think it takes to renovate a FAB facility ??? When taken in consideration with the **high inventory** AMD will not be sustainable making 90 nm Santa Ana's & Windsor's - when the Intel roadmap envisions 45nm in 2007 (and AMD's 45nm roadmap is mid-2008). Anyway you cut it that's 2X the die per wafer . . .

Quote:
. . . it is best kept in cash form for OpEx purposes and helping AMD weather the rough seas until they can get R600 and Barcelona (and its respective derivatives) out the door.


If they can't get the 65nm Brisbanes and Lima's out the door how will all that *operating cash* help get Barcelona out the door??? Do you not borrow money for physical plant??? FABS . . . man . . . FABS

and AMD + AMAT = FABS !!!

:) 
April 24, 2007 3:16:52 AM

Quote:
AMD has a decent inventory turnover right now and is doing a moderate job in managing its level.
No so sure about that . . . AMD inventory is at its highest level since the *heydays* of 2005. Beyond question their sales have slowed. The question in my mind is just what that inventory consists of . . .

Inventory consists of Raw materials, work in process, and finished goods valued at the lower of cost or market.

Compute the ratio, AMD's turnover is better than Intel's. AMD does have higher inventory levels than normal, but they also took on ATI and 40% of their increase in inventory is 65nm chips. All the chip starts in FAB 30 (or is it 36? idk) are now 65nm, not 90nm.

Quote:
They do not not need to piss away more cash and tying it up in inventory


How long do you think it takes to renovate a FAB facility ??? When taken in consideration with the **high inventory** AMD will not be sustainable making 90 nm Santa Ana's & Windsor's - when the Intel roadmap envisions 45nm in 2007 (and AMD's 45nm roadmap is mid-2008). Anyway you cut it that's 2X the die per wafer . . .

There is a difference between investing in capacity and investing in progress. I don't think AMD needs to invest that heavily in capacity, but more into progress. When did I ever say they should continue to make 90nm parts? Please show me where I would make such an egregious error. I have no idea how long it takes to renovate a FAB, do you?

Quote:
. . . it is best kept in cash form for OpEx purposes and helping AMD weather the rough seas until they can get R600 and Barcelona (and its respective derivatives) out the door.


If they can't get the 65nm Brisbanes and Lima's out the door how will all that *operating cash* help get Barcelona out the door??? Do you not borrow money for physical plant??? FABS . . . man . . . FABS

and AMD + AMAT = FABS !!!

:) 

How will barcelona help them if they don't have the cash to pay current OpEx? They have to have both, my point was to avoid excess inventory and don't invest what little cash you have left poorly. You ride FABS as if they are the magic key to AMD's success, they aren't going to cure AMD's ill's if the product isn't there. This kind of over zealous CapEx will get AMD in more trouble than it is already in. Calm down already, there isn't a magic cure all pill. In order to dig themselves out they have to overhaul the entire organization not just one aspect which is what you are advocating and that kind of one-dimensional thinking is what bankrupts companies. Take a step back and look at a bigger picture.

Lay off the caffeine kid. :D 
April 24, 2007 3:23:28 AM

Voodoo Financing.

Now this is the best analysis I've seen.

When you read things like this, it is hard to wonder just how the investment bankers that came up with the deal were able to keep a straight face while trying to get the company to do it. More importantly, you have to wonder if the brokers selling this won't be hitting the mute button when they call clients so the clients can't hear them laughing.

This analyst deserves THG Forum honorary status! He's spot on! :lol: 
April 24, 2007 3:34:12 AM

Quote:
Voodoo Financing.

Now this is the best analysis I've seen.

When you read things like this, it is hard to wonder just how the investment bankers that came up with the deal were able to keep a straight face while trying to get the company to do it. More importantly, you have to wonder if the brokers selling this won't be hitting the mute button when they call clients so the clients can't hear them laughing.

This analyst deserves THG Forum honorary status! He's spot on! :lol: 


I read that article earlier, it is scary, very creative accounting practices to follow next 8O
April 24, 2007 3:36:20 AM

Quote:

I read that article earlier, it is scary, very creative accounting practices to follow next 8O


I love this quote from it too. This guy really calls it as he sees it!

What's the best thing to do when you are in the midst of losing a price war THAT YOU STARTED? Go convince Main Street that you can win what you have been losing if they will loan you more money to throw into the fire.... That is just what Advanced Micro Devices (AMD-NYSE) is doing, and if you believe after reading through this that it is a good financing then we have a bridge to sell you. The company is raising $1.8 Billion in convertible senior notes, and the convertible (strike) price will be at roughly 3-times the stock price and is planning a price cap on these, WITH YOUR MONEY.

I'm a fan! :D 
April 24, 2007 3:38:12 AM

Quote:
Voodoo Financing.

Now this is the best analysis I've seen.

When you read things like this, it is hard to wonder just how the investment bankers that came up with the deal were able to keep a straight face while trying to get the company to do it. More importantly, you have to wonder if the brokers selling this won't be hitting the mute button when they call clients so the clients can't hear them laughing.

This analyst deserves THG Forum honorary status! He's spot on! :lol: 


While he makes some good points, you have to realize that AMD needs cash. Period. They can't really raise it through equity (typical stock) because their stock is so depressed and 1/2 the proceeds would go to MS (not that isn't happening in the 1.8B issue). What I want to know is where he got the idea that the strike price will be 3x higher than the closing stock price? He pull that one out of his ass? I am not saying I know what the strike price will be but 3x seems a bit ridiculous.

AMD had to raise cash somehow and this is probably about the best they could wiggle without being bought out, because we all know 1/2 the AMD management would be fired on the spot if a PE firm took over. This financing deal is a bit messed up, but it has been done before and with AMD backed into a corner I am not sure I see too many ways out.

What happens if AMD goes under chapter 11 and gets to shed 1/2 the debt? Bankers are hosed, they have to believe there is a reasonable possibility that they will get their money back and AMD clearly sold them on the idea. Who ends up being right.... that I can't say, only time will tell.
April 24, 2007 3:40:04 AM

Quote:
Voodoo Financing.

Now this is the best analysis I've seen.

When you read things like this, it is hard to wonder just how the investment bankers that came up with the deal were able to keep a straight face while trying to get the company to do it. More importantly, you have to wonder if the brokers selling this won't be hitting the mute button when they call clients so the clients can't hear them laughing.

This analyst deserves THG Forum honorary status! He's spot on! :lol: 


I read that article earlier, it is scary, very creative accounting practices to follow next 8O

Actually this isn't all that creative. Very simple accounting actually. You get debt, cash, then pay out cash, reserve a portion of your cash and then account for the possibility of conversion in your EPS calculation. Nothing off the wall about it. :wink:

There are a few more details to the transaction, but in essence that is what is happening. With over 160 statements, hundreds of EITF issues, interpretations, board rulings and SEC rules, there isn't as much wiggle room as you might think.
April 24, 2007 3:44:08 AM

yup, but it is the truth now isn't it? it was Hector after all who started the war with Intel. Hector was a Motorola fab manufacturing manager back in the days and he's always had a bad thing for Intel...anyhow he's somewhat overrated, not a complete idiot but not so smart either. He is Open mouth - Stick foot type of talker at AMD's earnings conference calls you'd think they'd make him shut up during these events :?
April 24, 2007 3:45:21 AM

Can't comment on the 3x as it's too late to pore over financial boilerplate until my eyes cross.

It's just that the way it looks to me is that AMD got a high ratio first mortgage on a house from Morgan Stanley and now they're running around trying to get a second mortgage that overlaps the equity of the first. It would be nice if we could all do that, and even nicer if we didn't have to pay any of it back! :lol: 
April 24, 2007 3:48:46 AM

Quote:

Actually this isn't all that creative. Very simple accounting actually. You get debt, cash, then pay out cash, reserve a portion of your cash and then account for the possibility of conversion in your EPS calculation. Nothing off the wall about it. :wink:

There are a few more details to the transaction, but in essence that is what is happening. With over 160 statements, hundreds of EITF issues, interpretations, board rulings and SEC rules, there isn't as much wiggle room as you might think.


Super I agree, what I am hinting to is AMD's accounting practices are about to get creative with taking on more debt to pay down debt (been there with another company, that's another story)...it's just getting a bit hairy for them :?
April 24, 2007 3:48:59 AM

Quote:
Can't comment on the 3x as it's too late to pore over financial boilerplate until my eyes cross.

It's just that the way it looks to me is that AMD got a high ratio first mortgage on a house from Morgan Stanley and now they're running around trying to get a second mortgage that overlaps the equity of the first. It would be nice if we could all do that, and even nicer if we didn't have to pay any of it back! :lol: 


I'd love to know how you are going to examine that 3x figure.

I realize how bad it looks, and it is bad, but don't get all up in arms and condemn them to hell. I am really trying to temper people's repsonses and shed some light on this. I don't have all the answers, but there are 1000 outcomes that could happen and we can speculate all day, but sending them straight to the recycle bin is about a 1 in a billion chance, so let's try and figure out what they are going to do to stay afloat and why. :D 
April 24, 2007 3:51:11 AM

Quote:

Actually this isn't all that creative. Very simple accounting actually. You get debt, cash, then pay out cash, reserve a portion of your cash and then account for the possibility of conversion in your EPS calculation. Nothing off the wall about it. :wink:

There are a few more details to the transaction, but in essence that is what is happening. With over 160 statements, hundreds of EITF issues, interpretations, board rulings and SEC rules, there isn't as much wiggle room as you might think.


Super I agree, what I am hinting to is AMD's accounting practices are about to get creative with taking on more debt to pay down debt (been there with another company, that's another story)...it's just getting a bit hairy for them :?

Well that isn't accounting... that is financing, two entirely different animals. The accounting which is what records the financing deal is pretty cut and dry (for the most part), the financing side is what is ugly. Debt on top of debt with convertible features, capped calls, and all that crap is financing. :wink:
April 24, 2007 3:54:23 AM

Quote:
When did their credit rating get downgraded, I missed that one:

However news of the offering comes after Standard & Poor's downgraded AMD's credit rating Monday to "B," its fifth-highest junk rating, making the additional debt more expensive.


http://www.forbes.com/2007/04/23/AMD-debt-offering-tech...

I think it was downgraded to the highest level of junk rating after their press release. I am pretty sure S&P that their finger poised to down grade it and were just waiting for a deb announcement to do. I am not entirely surprised. :?

I bet the interest rate on this debt gets very close to 10%...

Wow, this would be tough.... you are talking of millions each quarter just in interest.

It depends on how they structure the deal. AMD's 2.5Billion in debt only requires 6M to be paid each quarter, that is only .2% of the principal. You are right the interest will be huge and it will add up, but the question is when is it payable? That is the big thing AMD is concerned about, when does the cash have to go out the door?
April 24, 2007 3:58:14 AM

Quote:
I'd love to know how you are going to examine that 3x figure.

I realize how bad it looks, and it is bad, but don't get all up in arms and condemn them to hell. I am really trying to temper people's repsonses and shed some light on this. I don't have all the answers, but there are 1000 outcomes that could happen and we can speculate all day, but sending them straight to the recycle bin is about a 1 in a billion chance, so let's try and figure out what they are going to do to stay afloat and why. :D 


The 3x figure is relatively simple to deduce. Three is equivalent to the number of Hector's functioning brain cells. :lol: 

Yes, you're absolutely right that there are many different outcomes to all this, but you really have to wonder if Morgan Stanley is going to be extremely happy at this apparent "workaround" and if the Street is gonna accept it. If you're right and the interest is gonna be around 10%, that would translate to about $60M a quarter just in vigorish. And that's if they can get any takers on this. But we'll see!
April 24, 2007 4:02:26 AM

Quote:
The 3x figure is relatively simple to deduce. Three is equivalent to the number of Hector's functioning brain cells. :lol: 


That is generous... 8O

I can only guess that the strike price is probably the sum of about 250 factors, 100 assumptions, and 50% guess in their financial models.... what I wouldn't give to get my hands on their software. :wink:
April 24, 2007 4:04:33 AM

Quote:
what I wouldn't give to get my hands on their software. :wink:


I've often said that of the Raiderettes. :lol: 
April 24, 2007 4:11:06 AM

Quote:
what I wouldn't give to get my hands on their software. :wink:


I've often said that of the Raiderettes. :lol: 

Live in Oakland do we? :wink: 8)
April 24, 2007 4:14:00 AM

Quote:
what I wouldn't give to get my hands on their software. :wink:


I've often said that of the Raiderettes. :lol: 

Live in Oakland do we? :wink: 8)

Nah. Hangover from when they were the LA Raiders and I had season tix in the Black Hole at the Coliseum. I never forgave them for going back up north. :cry: 

To try to get back on track...

The stock price lost half a buck in overnight trading. What do you think that the next couple of days will bring, especially in light of the apparent fact that nothing may very well surface outta Tunisia until May 14?
April 24, 2007 4:18:53 AM

In the next few days we are going to see investment firms plug this debt into their uber super computer financial projections and see what it spits out. I think they will get a hold of K10 benchies just because of the size of Tunsia. I am not saying they will leak, but I wouldn't be surprised if the big boys didn't have someone there. I would expect AMD stock to hit ~$12.75 before it rebounds any.

I have no data for this guess. It is just instinct and observation, so take it with a carton of salt lol.
April 24, 2007 4:19:58 AM

I wonder if this would be an opportunity for Microsoft to step in with a couple billion. IMO, they've got alot riding on AMD's survival.
April 24, 2007 4:21:27 AM

Quote:
I wonder if this would be an opportunity for Microsoft to step in with a couple billion. IMO, they've got alot riding on AMD's survival.


How'd you come to that conclusion? I am curious.

There is a possibility they could use AMD/ATI for their next gen console... hmm. Interesting.
April 24, 2007 4:26:15 AM

Quote:
I wonder if this would be an opportunity for Microsoft to step in with a couple billion. IMO, they've got alot riding on AMD's survival.


How'd you come to that conclusion? I am curious.

There is a possibility they could use AMD/ATI for their next gen console... hmm. Interesting.

I've been saying for months that at this bargain basement price, AMD is a natural buy for Satan Gates. What's seven and a half B to the big guy? He must have spent close to that for his underground bunker of a house.

Just think of how it would turn the computing world upside down if Microsoft announced that all of its software including OS would only run on AMD CPUs.

OUCH!

Plus, I know that it's been beaten to death, mostly by me, but I find it rather curious that on such a newsworthy day, THG has no mention of AMD in its front page, but it does include:

Have you Ever Wanted a VW Beetle Inspired MP3 Player?
Hot Water Saver is Eco-Friendly and Saves Money


:roll:

But no, I've already said more than my piece and I'm not gonna start bashing THG again...
April 24, 2007 4:33:23 AM

Interesting point. Gates would do it too...

*rant*

As for THG, I've been noticing the MEGA EXCESSIVE amounts of f***ing useless info on cars on the homepage. I can't stand this shit. I really wish THG would stop expanding into areas they know nothing about and that cause them lose their reputation across the world as computing experts. I think the world basically mochs THG behind their back. I would. Their saving grace is they have the best forum I have seen.

Xtremesystem, anandtech, and other sites have weak forums and some great threads but it isn't a helping community. It is a community of extreme projects here and there. THG has thousands of threads per day with users from all over the world and constantly adding value to the community. It is a great place to start learning and then you branch out to Xtremesystem for ridiculous projects and anandtech for real articles.

/rant.

Edit: 2007 posts. :tongue:
April 24, 2007 4:34:37 AM

Quote:
I wonder if this would be an opportunity for Microsoft to step in with a couple billion. IMO, they've got alot riding on AMD's survival.


How'd you come to that conclusion? I am curious.

There is a possibility they could use AMD/ATI for their next gen console... hmm. Interesting.

Well i'm of the opinion that Intel is aligning itself with Apple and NV. Call it a gut feeling I guess, as well as some indications of it around the web. Given the huge critisism MS has been recieving (especially recently with Vista), and that just seems to me to be the way things are lining up. Also microsoft invested a huge amount of money in their 64 bit OS' to which Intel isn't all that interested in supporting, and I just think a little more populariy in OSX and Intel would back it wholeheartedly.
And most importantly, DX10. They need a healthy dose of competition for the Gaming for Windows initiative, and ATI is a major player in that. I believe more than anything they need R600 to flourish. The thing that is stalling Vista adoption the most is the lack of DX10 games. Once they start to ship, I think Vista will start to catch on with enthusiasts. The current problem is that not very many are happy with NV's midrange and affordable DX10 capable cards, and it's starting to look like AMD has a real winner here. IMO
April 24, 2007 4:36:08 AM

April 24, 2007 4:46:03 AM

Quote:
I wonder if this would be an opportunity for Microsoft to step in with a couple billion. IMO, they've got alot riding on AMD's survival.


How'd you come to that conclusion? I am curious.

There is a possibility they could use AMD/ATI for their next gen console... hmm. Interesting.

Well i'm of the opinion that Intel is aligning itself with Apple and NV. Call it a gut feeling I guess, as well as some indications of it around the web. Given the huge critisism MS has been recieving (especially recently with Vista), and that just seems to me to be the way things are lining up. Also microsoft invested a huge amount of money in their 64 bit OS' to which Intel isn't all that interested in supporting, and I just think a little more populariy in OSX and Intel would back it wholeheartedly.
And most importantly, DX10. They need a healthy dose of competition for the Gaming for Windows initiative, and ATI is a major player in that. I believe more than anything they need R600 to flourish. The thing that is stalling Vista adoption the most is the lack of DX10 games. Once they start to ship, I think Vista will start to catch on with enthusiasts. The current problem is that not very many are happy with NV's midrange and affordable DX10 capable cards, and it's starting to look like AMD has a real winner here. IMO

Well M$ always gets flack for their OS, no matter what it is. This is a recurring theme. They have to design an OS to work on 85%+ of the market, so the bugs are bound to creep up. I am not saying Vista doesn't have issues, because it does, but overall it works fairly well for an initial release with a complete rewrite of the kernel.

Related to 64 bit, it is a tough push. To be honest, I wasn't around for the 16 bit to 32 bit change over, so I can only guess that it was a tough road to get started because you have to not only sell the idea to consumers, but to software designers, hardware builders and then it all actually has to work. Is 64 bit necessary? Yes, if only to break the 4GB limit for now, but in time we will need it. I have no idea when, but I'd say with in the next 5 years you will see it gain real traction, so while Intel may not really care... it still has to make sure their chips work well with it.

The reason OSX has done so well is because it is so simple. Honestly, it is a noobs best friend, bar none. However, it doesn't have the power Windows does. It doesn't have the power to be a server/desktop/ws/tweaker friendly and easy to use all in one. Also, gaming blows, you just can't do it and don't even get me started on the freakin 1 button mouse/laptop clicker, it is retarded. Yes it is easily solvable but still very annoying. OSX has some great features, but until I see a more fundamental shift towards gaming/enthusiasts I will never use it.

Related to DX10, it is hurting Vista and it is hurting ATI for now. The games are coming, the hardware is close at hand, they just need to push it down to the mass market level which won't be easy until generation 2 of the DX10 cards hit. You are right, NV doesn't have great offering in the midrange right now, hopefully ATI can fill the gap. Time will tell.
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