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Why AMD is in deeper trouble...

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April 24, 2007 12:38:21 AM

1. R600 isn't one up over nVidia 8800GTX and nVidia already have a new lineup planned to go out the door the same time R600 does.

2. Quad core AMD bench numbers aren't real world so their quad core processor can at best keep up with existing Intel's quads and Intel will release higher clock speed quads so....

There is nothing in 2007 to indicate they can gain any market share back. And 2008 looks even worse as Intel goes to even smaller fabs and nVidia will be able to completely one up them for 2 years in a row. 1.2 billion reserve isn't enough to hold them for 7 quaters of continous major loses.

I don't want to think of no AMD and no ATI -- we need the competition.

But I just can't see how company restructures this late in the game is going to help them at all. It's all about the fab ...

Rob.

More about : amd deeper trouble

April 24, 2007 12:41:33 AM

:roll: x 1,000
April 24, 2007 12:49:41 AM

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April 24, 2007 12:51:42 AM

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April 24, 2007 12:53:19 AM

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1. R600 isn't one up over nVidia 8800GTX and nVidia already have a new lineup planned to go out the door the same time R600 does.

2. Quad core AMD bench numbers aren't real world so their quad core processor can at best keep up with existing Intel's quads and Intel will release higher clock speed quads so....

There is nothing in 2007 to indicate they can gain any market share back. And 2008 looks even worse as Intel goes to even smaller fabs and nVidia will be able to completely one up them for 2 years in a row. 1.2 billion reserve isn't enough to hold them for 7 quaters of continous major loses.

I don't want to think of no AMD and no ATI -- we need the competition.

But I just can't see how company restructures this late in the game is going to help them at all. It's all about the fab ...

Rob.


Wow...enough with these threads already. There's a hundred threads up talking about how AMD's losing and whatnot, just enough...
April 24, 2007 12:54:16 AM

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Ok, fair enough.
April 24, 2007 12:55:10 AM

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April 24, 2007 12:59:27 AM

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April 24, 2007 1:02:35 AM

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April 24, 2007 1:05:01 AM

LOL nice pic
April 24, 2007 1:13:45 AM

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April 24, 2007 1:15:17 AM

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Sorry, had to.
April 24, 2007 1:32:05 AM

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ROFLMFAO!!! :tongue: :lol: 
April 24, 2007 2:00:05 AM

Same thing I've been thinking.
Kudos.
April 24, 2007 2:11:00 AM

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So damn bored I just had to join in. :lol: 

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April 24, 2007 2:13:59 AM

Why is AMD in trouble? Because there have been so many threads and posts telling you so. If you hear something enough times it has to be true, doesn't it? Also it's on the internet which also means it must be 100% true. Benchmarks and real numbers wouldn't do this topic justice since we already know the truth. :roll: :roll:
April 24, 2007 2:29:13 AM

To be honest, benches and real numbers have been lacking from the green.
April 24, 2007 2:31:27 AM

ah beg to differ, benchmarks and real world performance numbers would illuminate the truth... Which is funny how Intel is showing their ES samples, but AMD is on the dl an all NDAtitude...

Incentive to cloak ones outstanding product, could be because it actually does not meet industry standards in stability, and/or AMD could have fudged the BM's to favor them in the 3 best areas, and it sux in the majority of others...
April 24, 2007 2:50:55 AM

Not a very creative bunch are ya

April 24, 2007 3:01:05 AM

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Not a very creative bunch are ya



:twisted: :trophy: :twisted:

Figured I would... But only because there is no anti-trophy.... :evil: 
April 24, 2007 3:05:37 AM

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ah beg to differ, benchmarks and real world performance numbers would illuminate the truth... Which is funny how Intel is showing their ES samples, but AMD is on the dl an all NDAtitude...

Incentive to cloak ones outstanding product, could be because it actually does not meet industry standards in stability, and/or AMD could have fudged the BM's to favor them in the 3 best areas, and it sux in the majority of others...


Wow, I'm a benchmark now.
:oops: 
April 24, 2007 3:09:10 AM

Definitely could use a little more cow bell.
April 24, 2007 3:29:14 AM

I think AMD screwed themselves giving Dell exclusive supply of their 35W dual core procs.

what happened to those processors? I've never seen them availalbe to the average sys. builder.

They shouldve known better. It was the average Joe that put AMD on the map, then they went and sold their soul to the big manufacturer.

I have no sympathy for AMD anymore.....


Dont hate me for saying this :twisted:
April 24, 2007 3:33:55 AM

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Why is AMD in trouble? Because there have been so many threads and posts telling you so. If you hear something enough times it has to be true, doesn't it? Also it's on the internet which also means it must be 100% true. Benchmarks and real numbers wouldn't do this topic justice since we already know the truth. :roll: :roll:


Nah, AMD is not in trouble. Everything is fine and dandy. It's all a conspiracy by a handful of Intel fanbois on a couple of forums that made S&P downgrade it to junk bond status and have the company announce a $2.2B unsellable note issue that has been called voodoo financing (and I don't mean that AMD is shopping for another videocard manufacturer) :roll:

Maybe I should write a paper in a medical journal:

Diurnal Olfactory Deficiency In AMD-Positive Patients.

It keeps them from waking up and being able to smell the coffee! :lol: 
April 24, 2007 3:52:45 AM

To clarify, the eye-rolling was for the fact he made ANOTHER one of these threads, AND he made statements without seeing a single K10 or R600 benchmark (of course, many people argue this is one of the problems, but few [if anyone] expects R600 to fall short).
April 24, 2007 4:02:33 AM

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To clarify, the eye-rolling was for the fact he made ANOTHER one of these threads, AND he made statements without seeing a single K10 or R600 benchmark (of course, many people argue this is one of the problems, but few [if anyone] expects R600 to fall short).


The basic problem still remains: WHY has no independent entity of any kind ever seen a functioning K10 or R600? It's this kind of question that naturally leads to all sorts of likely and unlikely conspiracy theories.
April 24, 2007 4:14:31 AM

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Definitely could use a little more cow bell.


Most definitely :lol: 
April 24, 2007 4:18:44 AM

I don't think AMD is in trouble yet. If they miss with the r600 and their new quad core is a blow then yes.

But from the look of it, the r600 seems to be really revolutionary. Physics card, audio out, and it's clocked much faster (about 200 mhz faster). Nvidia has what coming out? The 8800 Ultra? it's like 50 mhz faster. WOW. The 8900 GTX is said to be on the same chip, so they can either release a slower video card, or they can design it, and that will take atleast 3-4 months. So AMD should be ahead for some time, and even then, amd can Release the 650 and 700 and counter the 8900 GTX. I think AMD is in a good position.

Also, nvidia has been really quiet. So either they are hidding things, in hopes of counter the r600, or they are afraid. Afraid if they show case their 8900 GTX it will be much slower at this stage in the game. The fact that they are waiting makes me think they are trying to spend as much time as they can on it in hopes to out perform. But I don't think it will be enough.
April 24, 2007 4:19:33 AM

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Why is AMD in trouble? Because there have been so many threads and posts telling you so. If you hear something enough times it has to be true, doesn't it? Also it's on the internet which also means it must be 100% true. Benchmarks and real numbers wouldn't do this topic justice since we already know the truth. :roll: :roll:


Nah, AMD is not in trouble. Everything is fine and dandy. It's all a conspiracy by a handful of Intel fanbois on a couple of forums that made S&P downgrade it to junk bond status and have the company announce a $2.2B unsellable note issue that has been called voodoo financing (and I don't mean that AMD is shopping for another videocard manufacturer) :roll:

Maybe I should write a paper in a medical journal:

Diurnal Olfactory Deficiency In AMD-Positive Patients.

It keeps them from waking up and being able to smell the coffee! :lol: 


Maybe you should just write a collection of missives regarding your opinion.
April 24, 2007 4:19:49 AM

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I don't think AMD is in trouble yet. If they miss with the r600 and their new quad core is a blow then yes.

But from the look of it, the r600 seems to be really revolutionary. Physics card, audio out, and it's clocked much faster (about 200 mhz faster). Nvidia has what coming out? The 8800 Ultra? it's like 50 mhz faster. WOW. The 8900 GTX is said to be on the same chip, so they can either release a slower video card, or they can design it, and that will take atleast 3-4 months. So AMD should be ahead for some time, and even then, amd can Release the 650 and 700 and counter the 8900 GTX. I think AMD is in a good position.


Sounds like a plan.... 8O but only time will tell...
April 24, 2007 4:21:49 AM

Quote:
I don't think AMD is in trouble yet. If they miss with the r600 and their new quad core is a blow then yes.

But from the look of it, the r600 seems to be really revolutionary. Physics card, audio out, and it's clocked much faster (about 200 mhz faster). Nvidia has what coming out? The 8800 Ultra? it's like 50 mhz faster. WOW. The 8900 GTX is said to be on the same chip, so they can either release a slower video card, or they can design it, and that will take atleast 3-4 months. So AMD should be ahead for some time, and even then, amd can Release the 650 and 700 and counter the 8900 GTX. I think AMD is in a good position.


Er... the question I have is... what R600? What K10? Have yet to receive any confirmable independent verification of their existence, let alone their performance.

They may exist. They may not. Maybe they just exist in Hector's mind... :wink:
April 24, 2007 4:25:27 AM

Hopefully Agena can clock higher than the 3.05Ghz Fudzilla is claiming to have hit. They definitely had a lot of cooling on it...if it's even real....
April 24, 2007 4:31:42 AM

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Hopefully Agena can clock higher than the 3.05Ghz Fudzilla is claiming to have hit. They definitely had a lot of cooling on it...if it's even real....


Having fought Fudzilla in many epic battles and destroyed many a building, I can assure you that he is a dirty liar. :lol: 

I'll reserve my judgement until Anandtech or (gasp) THG runs a test... 8O
April 24, 2007 4:45:22 AM

12K Watt Power supplies on standby -- 240v outlets being re-routed to the office...errr...game room.

Liguid Nitrogen delivery now weekly.

Problem is, no leap frog, ATI/AMD just bring their stuff up to par maybe a little faster but not enough for folks to make the plunge, not when Intel and nVidia are just waiting to release their minor upgrade variants to keep it par. AMD would have release numbers a long time ago if they could, the lack of them is concern.

But with no real "master plan" on how to recover (sorry a restructure just isn't gonna do it) just isn't gonna make share holders wanna stick around. They should reveal some plan even if it is complete BS, just to keep people interested in their stock. Neither company can suddenly just change direction once they started on a strategy -- just no time to do that.
April 24, 2007 5:00:17 AM

Who would think to post their opinions in an existing thread? :roll:
April 24, 2007 5:04:13 AM

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I have skepticism about the 40% claim, but I also lean to the idea that Barcey will out perform the core uarch to some degree, especially in server where the money lies.... what I am not certain about is the magnitude as a 40% (now 50%) claim is vague in some respects but specific about SPEC2006_FP Rate no less.... so there will be some playing with the benchmark data to make it look better than it is... but make no mistake, it will be a rock solid good CPU....

AMD estimations are based on specFP_rate2006 and specINT_rate2006 on a 2P server.
Because of the ODMC and the point-to-point buses, the 2P K8 performance scales much better than 2P C2D.
The dualcore K8 is 2.5% faster than C2D in specINT_rate2006, at same frequency, while it is 15.5% faster in specFP_rate2006.

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_13223....html?r
Let's consider AMD's bold claims as true. The 20% advantage over C2D in specINT_rate2006 will become 17% advantage over K8, while the 50% in specFP_rate2006 will become 29% advantage over K8. Let's assume that in average the K10 is 23% faster than K8. This math is wrong, and the real performance numbers will be different, but AMD gave us no data.

These benchmarks are on a 2P system, where K8 shines and scales much better in performance than C2D, because of its ODMC and a point-to-point buses.
On the desktop, the K8 has no advantage over C2D(no core-FSB-northbridge-FSB-core communication) by having a point-to-point bus. Also, the 1P K8 system has no additional bandwidth provided by NUMA. So, on the desktop we'll have a different scenario.
The average C2D performance advantage is 20%, compared to a same clocked K8. According to AMD's specXXX_rate2006 estimations, clock for clock, K10 will be 2.5% faster than C2D in average on a 2P server system, and less on a 1P server, desktop or mobile system.

So, IMO, K10 compared to a 65nm C2D, will be faster for FP, slower for AL, and will perform same for SSE instructions.
65nm C2D will remain holding the crown on desktop and mobile, while Penryn will wipe the floor with K10 in these areas.
On the 2P server, Barcelona might be faster than Clovertown, and on the 4P it will shine. When Penryn arrives, most likely that K10 will only be better in 4P+ system configuration.
April 24, 2007 6:44:03 AM

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ROFLMFAO!!! :tongue: :lol: 

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So damn bored I just had to join in. :lol: 

:trophy:


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x100000000000000000000000million 8O



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April 24, 2007 8:11:11 AM

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ROFLMFAO!!! :tongue: :lol: 

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So damn bored I just had to join in. :lol: 

:trophy:


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x100000000000000000000000million 8O +1 more :trophy: :p 
April 24, 2007 9:51:38 AM

:lol:  sif +1 more lol


one more waht !? ehhhh THOUGHT SOOO hahahah 8O
April 24, 2007 11:02:28 AM

Intel went back to p3-basis and some mobile tech. and got further from there, doubled it : c2d was born.

perhaps AMD should do something with their k6-II then ?

a lot of people have been hurt without dying, so is AMD.
don`t give up on them yet........



OKAY, LOCK THIS STUPID THREAD AND THROW AWAY THE KEY WILL YA??
April 24, 2007 11:30:01 AM

carnage of the trophies 8O
April 24, 2007 3:05:27 PM

AMD take longer to retool their fabs, this is their death -- this has always been their weakness. Ok, maybe not death, but drastic downward spiral to their decreasing market share.

Instead of bleeding money and buying ATI, they should have bleed the money into their survival and figured out what is needed to speed up their retooling process.
April 24, 2007 3:18:52 PM

Quote:
Intel went back to p3-basis and some mobile tech. and got further from there, doubled it : c2d was born.

perhaps AMD should do something with their k6-II then ?

a lot of people have been hurt without dying, so is AMD.
don`t give up on them yet........



OKAY, LOCK THIS STUPID THREAD AND THROW AWAY THE KEY WILL YA??


Intel's problem was the architecture was limited by the clock speed and heat loss limits of the material. AMD's problem isn't so much the architecture as slow progress in processes.
April 24, 2007 4:14:10 PM

Hey cool this guy can tell the future........... :roll:

Who is gonna be our next president? :o 
April 24, 2007 4:22:57 PM

Quote:
To be honest, benches and real numbers have been lacking from the green.


What benches? What real numbers? Oh yes, the real numbers of how much money is being lost. And lest we forget, all the cheap salesman's talk about how great the R600 will be, and how great Agena, Barcelona, and Kuma are going to be. All talk, no proof. Like the old TV commercial went, "Show me the beef!".
April 24, 2007 4:25:34 PM

Quote:
Like the old TV commercial went, "Show me the beef!".


I think you meant, "Where's the beef!?"

But your point is good. ;) 
April 24, 2007 4:33:44 PM

Well, there are 2900XT numbers out now (even though it's at a very CPU locked resolution).
April 24, 2007 5:31:42 PM

i read that AMD is merging with a newspaper stand
in preparation for the R600 launch. train your telescopes
to the skies to see the beautiful array of colors.

AMD has also been repremanded again for littering.

AMD should stand for Always Missing Deliveries ...

get new mgmnt AMD or fail .....
!