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Vista users’ frustrations with Nvidia come to a head

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April 24, 2007 6:48:36 PM

http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=405
Windows Vista users' ongoing frustrations with graphics-card maker Nvidia have boiled over.

A new Web site, NvidiaClassAction.info, created by IT consultant Dan Goldman, is gauging whether there is sufficient user interest to launch a class-action suit against Nvidia over the vendor's allegedly spotty Windows Vista support.
The NvidiaClasACtion home page explains the site's purpose:
"This website gathers information to determine the viability for a class action lawsuit against nVidia (and some of its manufacturing partners) for problems involving 'Vista Ready Certified' products on the Microsoft Vista operating system.
"We at www.nVidiaclassaction.info believe that nVidia and its manufacturing partners defrauded us. Therefore, we are proactively gathering information from victims around the world who have suffered similar harms, and who we believe have also been defrauded.
"This information will provide a law firm in New York City (which must – at this point – remain anonymous) evidence to determine viability for a class action lawsuit."
Goldman said he purchased an 8800 series Nvidia graphics card that was labeled as "Designed for Windows Vista" before Microsoft launched Vista on January 30. Once Vista was released to consumers, Nvidia made available the necessary drivers for the cards. But the drivers have been plagued with bugs, Goldman said. Based on support forum threads on Nvidia's site, thousands of users have had trouble with the cards/drivers, Goldman said.
"(F)or more than a month, nvidia has tried to hush the problem and has not provided any solution or information regarding the problem. this, of course, meant that people could not figure out if the problem was with drivers or with their system configuration or even hardware malfunctions. this, in turn, lead to people returning various hardware components and getting replacements, just to find out that it did not solve the problem. it also lead to people spending dozens of hours on system configuration changes, hardware reassembly, windows tweaking, bios tweaking, forum reading and so on. all of it without finding solutions."
In the online forum of the Web site is a posting that is attributed to Nvidia PR representative Calisa Cole that asks the Web site creators to "terminate this misleading operation against the Nvidia corporation." However, when I contacted Cole by e-mail about the posting, Cole replied: "I did NOT submit that listing. It was some kind of hack using my name. It's really sad that someone would do it because it undermines the credibility of blogs."
I asked her for an official statement on the Nvidia class-action suit site and Cole did not respond by the time I published this blog entry.
Back to the matter at hand. How bad is the Vista-Nvidia problem? I asked a few Vista power users for their takes. Here are a few:
* Michael Reyes, HardwareGeeks.com: "I am the unhappy owner of an NVIDIA 8800 GTX 768 MB card that I paid nearly 800 dollars for. I can't even play Texas Hold-em on it. For me the biggest disapointment in Vista hasn't come from Microsoft but from NVIDIA. It sucks that a 20 dollar card can play games fine in Windows, but you spend a litle more for a much better gaming experience and you end up with one that's worse."
* Andre Da Costa, Teching It Easy: Problems with Nvidia and Vista have "been going on for too long. It's like they have not been ready since day one with this product, and the aim was just beat AMD to market which has backfired on them. The last time they (Nvidia) released a good driver up date was 84.xx. Ever since then it has a been a living nightmare for users with this product on Vista. (T)his is a product thats critical to the user experience on Vista and if your product is degrading that, it looks bad on Microsoft's part."
* John Obeto, AbsoluteVista: "Nvidia, as well as other GPU manufacturers were partnered with Microsoft on Vista from the beginning. Supposedly! For Nvidia to not have drivers ready as of the RTM (release to manufacturing) release of Vista back in November of 2006, which, incidentally, AMD's ATI division did, is not only a shame, but shows a lack of respect for customers by Nvidia. They then added insult to injury by unlawfully, in my opinion, claiming that the released drivers were 'Built for Vista.' Compounding it all is their (Nvidia's) claim that the problem 'is not their fault, but a Windows Vista problem.' I believe that the executive at Nvidia has not been watching the news or heard of the resultant effects of a lack of customer service on the fortunes of Sony and Dell."


"TISK TISK TISK"
April 24, 2007 8:17:25 PM

The drivers for the 8800 are horrible for Vista, I switched back to XP, gaming is much more enjoyable. I was pretty pissed about it, but I didn't pay for Vista so it wasn't too bad switching back to XP because of that.
April 24, 2007 8:34:51 PM

Quote:
The drivers for the 8800 are horrible for Vista, I switched back to XP, gaming is much more enjoyable. I was pretty pissed about it, but I didn't pay for Vista so it wasn't too bad switching back to XP because of that.


OK good to know, im not into Vista at this time and i will probably hold off as long as i can. I dont see any benefit from it compared to xp.
In fact for games it sucks, from what my friends have experienced.
Related resources
April 24, 2007 8:46:38 PM

Wihout any Ati dx10 drivers to compare it to, could it just be that vista sucks?
April 24, 2007 8:59:13 PM

What, am I the only person who HASN'T had problems w/ Vista and 8800 series drivers?

Fcuk... I think some of ya'll are exaggerating. And I'm running x64 Vista!

My advice to this class action thingie: get over it. That's what you get for wanting to have the latest and greatest. Deal with it sissys.
April 24, 2007 9:17:18 PM

Quote:
What, am I the only person who HASN'T had problems w/ Vista and 8800 series drivers?

Fcuk... I think some of ya'll are exaggerating. And I'm running x64 Vista!

My advice to this class action thingie: get over it. That's what you get for wanting to have the latest and greatest. Deal with it sissys.

I was running x64 Vista too and my fps were lower than in XP, but my main issue was constant game crashes and blue screens with an error that was something like nvdisp or something like that, can't remember the exact error now.
April 24, 2007 9:27:55 PM

Quote:
Wihout any Ati dx10 drivers to compare it to, could it just be that vista sucks?


That's my suspicion as well. It's not like the 8800 is the only periperal that has issues with Vista. Plus, there are many software programs that have issues with Vista as well. The truth, as usual, is probably somewhere in between.
April 24, 2007 9:31:11 PM

Quote:
The drivers for the 8800 are horrible for Vista, I switched back to XP, gaming is much more enjoyable. I was pretty pissed about it, but I didn't pay for Vista so it wasn't too bad switching back to XP because of that.


OK good to know, im not into Vista at this time and i will probably hold off as long as i can. I dont see any benefit from it compared to xp.
In fact for games it sucks, from what my friends have experienced.

This is my general feeling as well. I will be waiting for Vista SP1 before I even think about installing because I don't feel like being Windows' guinea pig. I don't care how many DX10 games come out before that happens either.
April 24, 2007 9:39:11 PM

Quote:
What, am I the only person who HASN'T had problems w/ Vista and 8800 series drivers?

Fcuk... I think some of ya'll are exaggerating. And I'm running x64 Vista!

My advice to this class action thingie: get over it. That's what you get for wanting to have the latest and greatest. Deal with it sissys.


You hit the nail on the head. Some people like diving into new technology but then you have to deal with the consequences both good and bad until everything becomes stable. There are bound to be problems when you have an OS that's trying to be stable with thousands of different platforms, overclockers, peripherals, etc.
April 24, 2007 9:41:44 PM

Quote:

My advice to this class action thingie: get over it. That's what you get for wanting to have the latest and greatest. Deal with it sissys.


Agreed.
April 24, 2007 9:59:04 PM

Yarg, this is a good observation. Although even the 64bit drivers are stable? Cool, I'll def have to check that out
April 24, 2007 10:53:08 PM

Quote:
What, am I the only person who HASN'T had problems w/ Vista and 8800 series drivers?

Fcuk... I think some of ya'll are exaggerating. And I'm running x64 Vista!

My advice to this class action thingie: get over it. That's what you get for wanting to have the latest and greatest. Deal with it sissys.


You hit the nail on the head. Some people like diving into new technology but then you have to deal with the consequences both good and bad until everything becomes stable. There are bound to be problems when you have an OS that's trying to be stable with thousands of different platforms, overclockers, peripherals, etc.

I disagree. If a person buys a product expecting performance based on what the product claims, then the person has a right to get that performance, or get the money returned. I'm not saying that the 8800 is a bad card or that it doesn't run DX9 programs, whether under Vista or XP, as it seems to do that very well. But if a person bought one under the express purpose of its being able to run DX10 games and Vista and it doesn't, then Nvidia is guilty of false advertising for proclaiming it as a Vista ready, DX10 ready card.

Not much to say about AMD/ATI and the R600, but perhaps part of that delay is because of problems with Vista/DX10 and they are trying to avoid the same trap.
April 24, 2007 11:06:05 PM

True, I would hope that during the delay ATI is trying not to make some of the same mistakes Nvidia has.

However, how much of the problem with Nvidia is caused by Vista? I don't know, and you don't know, what's going on behind the scenes. Maybe Vista has been a major PITA to deal with and Nvidia is doing what they can with an OS that's patching constantly. Besides that, Nvidia cards do work for some people using Vista so saying it doesn't is not true. It may not be optimized fully, but again, that may not be completely Nvidia's fault. That fact is, it does work with Vista so it's not faulty advertising.

And about buying a product and expecting it to perform, I think we all agree that our hard-earned dollars should buy us value. But I think any PC gamer will agree that the reality is performance at its fullest is not always guaranteed. It's not right, but in reality, experienced PC gamers/enthusiasts know new technology isn't going to be perfect. What game has come out that didn't need a patch? What motherboard hasn't had BIOS updates? What Windows OS didn't go through at least one service pack? What software program in general hasn't released patches to make it better? It's kinda part of the deal. These aren't consoles. There are many different parts trying to match well together. I think compatability and something working like it's been advertised has become more of the exception rather than the rule, unfortunately.

But then again, you can always buy a console which doesn't have the same flexibility as a PC so what plagues the PC also makes it better.
April 24, 2007 11:11:00 PM

Quote:
My advice to this class action thingie: get over it. That's what you get for wanting to have the latest and greatest. Deal with it sissys.


That is absolute BS. If you went out and got the latest model car from a car manufacturer, you wouldn't say that. What if the complaint was "The brakes don't work very well yet, but we will fix it later... In the meantime deal with is syssys...". You would want your money back, or the brakes fixed NOW!!!

So why does it work differently for IT (and I'm not just talking Nvidia drivers here - talking in general)? But in the case of Nvidia, they have been somewhat lacking in quality control and customer support - the amount of complaints is evidence of this!!!!
April 24, 2007 11:16:11 PM

Quote:
What software program in general hasn't released patches to make it better?


Hello World??? :) 
April 24, 2007 11:25:55 PM

Quote:
My advice to this class action thingie: get over it. That's what you get for wanting to have the latest and greatest. Deal with it sissys.


That is absolute BS. If you went out and got the latest model car from a car manufacturer, you wouldn't say that. What if the complaint was "The brakes don't work very well yet, but we will fix it later... In the meantime deal with is syssys...". You would want your money back, or the brakes fixed NOW!!!

So why does it work differently for IT (and I'm not just talking Nvidia drivers here - talking in general)? But in the case of Nvidia, they have been somewhat lacking in quality control and customer support - the amount of complaints is evidence of this!!!!

Very much the point I was trying to make. When a product is advertised to do something and it doesn't, then I want a correction made now or a refund so I can buy something else.
April 24, 2007 11:30:02 PM

Sailer, I think you sig says something pretty signigicant as well. Kind my point on the reality of things versus what we'd like. I don't disagree with you that we should get what we pay for, but in the IT world, we've gotten used to not getting what we pay for in many circumstances. In most cases, however, the corrections do come but maybe not as fast as we'd like them to.
April 24, 2007 11:41:53 PM

I've been using Windows since the days of Windows 3.0. Usually the troubles are caused because I did something wrong or because of a hardware problem. My mistakes are ones that I live with and about which I have developed a sense of humor. Its faulty hardware that drives me up the wall. Doesn't matter if its a cpu that came DOA or a hardrive the quit or whatever. I put in work installing the thing and I expect it to do its job. And, of course, I've learned not to trust any OS that Microsoft developes until its been out for a while and the bugs have been worked out.
April 24, 2007 11:50:18 PM

I think you have to develop a sense of humor about this stuff because it happens so frequently. Makes it pretty hard to nail down a problem when it could be any number of things from the PSU to the RAM to the CPU, GPU, etc...or maybe it's just the game, the OS...you name it.

So starting a class action suit against Nvidia? Good luck proving it's faulty advertising on their part.
April 24, 2007 11:55:50 PM

Proving the false advertising may be difficult. I don't own the affected product or Vista, so have no personal experience with it. I'll leave that to the lawyers. I have thought about buying a 8800 for my XP machine, just as a higher powered video card and not having expectations about Vista/DX10. If the R600 doesn't come out quick or have impressive benches, that is what I'll end up doing.
April 24, 2007 11:57:29 PM

On the other hand, show me a DX10 game that doesn't work with a 8800 and Vista as advertised... :) 
April 25, 2007 12:03:03 AM

Quote:
On the other hand, show me a DX10 game that doesn't work with a 8800 and Vista as advertised... :) 


Sure, as soon as you show me one that does. :wink: Drat it, I just can't find one that doesn't work.
April 25, 2007 12:12:06 AM

I think Sailer's referring to problems with Vista and the 8800. I see Vista has problems already with lots of games, all of them DX9 of course. :lol: 
But it doesn't matter whether it's ATI or Nvidia that's the peripheral.

STALKER, for instance, runs like crap on Vista but it runs like crap on ATI and Nvidia. Runs great on XP. There are many more instances of software and hardware running like crap with Vista and not XP than problems with 8800 running with Vista. When you look at the culmination of information, it looks like a lot of hardware and software is having a hard time with Vista but not with XP. So who's fault is all this? The 8800's work like a dream with XP, I and many others can attest to that. The 8800 also works with Vista but not for some people.

To me, it looks like Vista is at least somewhat of the culprit in all of these cases but it really takes a collaberative effort on all sides to get things straightened out when there's a new OS. And it takes time which is why I'm sticking with XP until at least Vista SP1.
April 25, 2007 12:15:51 AM

Quote:
I have thought about buying a 8800 for my XP machine, just as a higher powered video card and not having expectations about Vista/DX10. If the R600 doesn't come out quick or have impressive benches, that is what I'll end up doing.


Dude, the 8800GTX + XP = Fun times. Trust me, I know.

Too bad about ATI and the R600. I have always been a fan of ATI cards, but I wanted to make a move and they weren't there with anything comparable to the 8800GTX. I don't buy into the whole theory of wait until X comes out because it's going to beat the pants off Y. Unless it's like a month or less, forget it or I'll be waiting forever.
April 25, 2007 12:39:03 AM

This is all pretty stupid. If anything they should be going after Microsoft... If Microsoft would have given sufficient notice and packages to manufacturers to make usable drivers, nobody would be in this mess. I have a feeling that if NVIDIA rushed to get the driver to market, and made a crap driver, then people would be on their back even worse. There's obviously a reason they have not released a good driver, the people at NVIDIA are not morons, if they COULD have they WOULD have. It's not like they are hiding the drivers away just to piss people off, it's likely that they are not receiving a huge amount of support from Microsoft to fix the issues they are presented with releasing this Vista driver for certification. As far as I am concerned, if you don't like them not releasing a crappy driver, buy a non-NVIDIA product next time and stop whining. You don't have to sue everyone all of the time, if anything they should sue you for not getting your facts straight. They are not telling you why they haven't released a driver yet (or at least not the truth) because they are very likely binded to a confidentiality claus by Microsoft so as to not formally address the issue of their shabby job making an Operating System.

My Two Cents.... Take it or leave it!
April 25, 2007 12:44:23 AM

I've owned both ATI and Nvidia cards in the past and they all did their job pretty well. Right now I have a X1900 XTX Toxic which has been good for nearly a year, but the last two games I bought bring it to its knees, with overheating despite the water cooling and slow frame rates. I think the watercooling system that Sapphire used isn't up to the job of cooling adequately for the newest games, though its good enough for anything from a year ago.

If the R600 comes out quick enough, with good enough benches, I'll get it. If not, then a 8800 GTX will go into the machine. But there better be no more delays on the R600 for it to have a chance.
April 25, 2007 12:45:27 AM

I'll take it. I'm absolutely sure some of this is MS's fault because so many things do work well in XP and not on Vista and it doesn't matter whether it's ATI or Nvidia. But you're absolutely right. Nobody's going to point fingers at anyone right now because they all have such a huge stake in all this.
April 25, 2007 12:50:52 AM

Yeah, all depends on how much patience you have. If the R600 would come out soon, the 8800 would at least be a little cheaper if you couldn't afford the R600. Now that I have the 8800GTX though, I'm going to use it until games start bringing it to its knees like they did my last card - X850XT. Whatever's top of the line then, that's what I'll get. Both card manufacturers make good stuff, but I've always liked ATI's picture quality just a little bit better. I thought I did see somewhere today that the R600 is delayed until the third quarter, however.
April 25, 2007 1:07:57 AM

Quote:
What, am I the only person who HASN'T had problems w/ Vista and 8800 series drivers?

Fcuk... I think some of ya'll are exaggerating. And I'm running x64 Vista!

My advice to this class action thingie: get over it. That's what you get for wanting to have the latest and greatest. Deal with it sissys.


This all depends on the games you tried to run. I tried out every set of drivers and not one of them would play every game I wanted to play. IIRC the latest ones have problems with OpenGL.
April 25, 2007 1:54:11 AM

I've had very few problems gaming in Vista. I currently play STALKER, WoW, C&C 3, and Supreme Commander. I run in 1920x1080 with graphics always maxed and verticle sync. I got a few more frames in XP, but it still looked and played the same. I'm sure the hit in frame rate really affects the people teetering the ede of playablity and poor performance. There is no need to switch to Vista at this time unless you're ready to future proof your gaming experience to the next big OS and dx10 games.

My current gripe is when starting Vista at times it'll boot in 4:3 resolution and not recognize 1920x1080(1080p) in control panel. The only solution I have found is to reboot several times until it recognizes widescreen. I was impressed to sumbit my problem to NVIDIA customer service and recieve a personal response within 3 hours. They basically said the problem is known to NVIDIA and they are working on it in the next patch. I think it may have somthing to do with FRAPS. I have yet to test it, but I think disabling it at start-up may work.
The current 158.18 drivers run Sli like a champ on my 8800 gtx's. Many small annoying things have been fixed. Kudos to NVIDIA. Even my 3d2006 marks are close to my best on XP.
April 25, 2007 1:56:51 AM

I saw a delay announced today for the XTX version only, because of problems concernng the GDDR4 memory. The XT version is still supposed to be on schedule. That's the one being shown off in Tunisia, as I understand. If that gets delayed, then I expect Nvidia will provide my next card.
April 25, 2007 1:57:18 AM

Quote:
I've had very few problems gaming in Vista. I currently play STALKER, WoW, C&C 3, and Supreme Commander. I run in 1920x1080 with graphics always maxed and verticle sync. I got a few more frames in XP, but it still looked and played the same. I'm sure the hit in frame rate really affects the people teetering the ede of playablity and poor performance. There is no need to switch to Vista at this time unless you're ready to future proof your gaming experience to the next big OS and dx10 games.

My current gripe is when starting Vista at times it'll boot in 4:3 resolution and not recognize 1920x1080(1080p) in control panel. The only solution I have found is to reboot several times until it recognizes widescreen. I was impressed to sumbit my problem to NVIDIA customer service and recieve a personal response within 3 hours. They basically said the problem is known to NVIDIA and they are working on it in the next patch. I think it may have somthing to do with FRAPS. I have yet to test it, but I think disabling it at start-up may work.
The current 158.18 drivers run Sli like a champ on my 8800 gtx's. Many small annoying things have been fixed. Kudos to NVIDIA. Even my 3d2006 marks are close to my best on XP.


I rest my case.
April 25, 2007 1:59:36 AM

Quote:
I've had very few problems gaming in Vista. I currently play STALKER, WoW, C&C 3, and Supreme Commander. I run in 1920x1080 with graphics always maxed and verticle sync. I got a few more frames in XP, but it still looked and played the same. I'm sure the hit in frame rate really affects the people teetering the ede of playablity and poor performance. There is no need to switch to Vista at this time unless you're ready to future proof your gaming experience to the next big OS and dx10 games.

My current gripe is when starting Vista at times it'll boot in 4:3 resolution and not recognize 1920x1080(1080p) in control panel. The only solution I have found is to reboot several times until it recognizes widescreen. I was impressed to sumbit my problem to NVIDIA customer service and recieve a personal response within 3 hours. They basically said the problem is known to NVIDIA and they are working on it in the next patch. I think it may have somthing to do with FRAPS. I have yet to test it, but I think disabling it at start-up may work.
The current 158.18 drivers run Sli like a champ on my 8800 gtx's. Many small annoying things have been fixed. Kudos to NVIDIA. Even my 3d2006 marks are close to my best on XP.


I rest my case.

Rest your case that Nvidia are finally fixing their driver issues???
That actually supports the case that the original drivers were not ready and thus the cards were not vista ready...
April 25, 2007 2:17:00 AM

Again, I go back to how much of that is Nvidia and how much of that is Microsoft/Vista? My case is that there's no way to prove that Nvidia was falsely advertising.

Look at all of the problems that are related to Vista and then look at all of the problems that are related to the 8800. Waaay more for Vista and only one for the 8800. History indicates that if it were anybody's fault, it's probably Vista's. So are all the other products out there at fault as well and Vista's off the hook? Such as hatsurfer's monitor for instance that works just fin in XP but not Vista? I think not.
April 25, 2007 2:22:03 AM

How long did it take them before XP didn't suck "never" it still sucks they just got it to OK and that will be the same with Vista they will just get it to OK because they suck at their jobs But as long as it's the only game in town I guess we better get over it or get together and write our own
April 25, 2007 9:03:06 AM

As i understand it some game devs get their hands on new hardware and then develop the games based on that new hardware.

But what about OS's, did nvidia get a copy of Vista or did MS get copies of 8800s when developing their new stuff?
Who is leading who in this?
Surely there must be somekind of cooperation between them since nvidias products say "Vista ready".
Did nvidia sell gfx cards knowing they aren't "Vista ready" or are MS dragging their feet releasing code to slowly to nvidia, a mix of both?
a b U Graphics card
April 25, 2007 9:42:02 AM

I have thre questions One: Do ATI owners running Vista have all these problems, such as blue screens of death etc Two: Did these ATI owners have as many problems whwen Vista came out? And three, did any of the ATI cards have Vista ready on them> Also, Ivewas receiving all sorts of requests from Micro$osft while Visy\ta was in beta, asking ANYONE , any hardware or software maker to get involved with them, to prevent just this situation. We all hate M$'s lack of providing a OS that cant do everything for everyone, but this one seems to be worse. We all know creative's drivers have sucked, and to this day, they only have a beta thatll work with vista using their agl which is similar to eax. Someone has dropped the ball here. Im betting its nVid more than M$
a b U Graphics card
April 25, 2007 9:50:46 AM

Sadly, there are many hardware and software makers that will NEVER make new drivers etc on their older products to be compatible with this OS. With the closed kernel, drivers and such need to work outside of it. If I were good software writer, Id be out there and finding out which products were abandoned, how many potential future clients I could get and start writing, charging a few bucks o course heheh
April 25, 2007 10:46:43 AM

Quote:

OK good to know, im not into Vista at this time and i will probably hold off as long as i can. I dont see any benefit from it compared to xp.
In fact for games it sucks, from what my friends have experienced.

This is my general feeling as well. I will be waiting for Vista SP1 before I even think about installing because I don't feel like being Windows' guinea pig. I don't care how many DX10 games come out before that happens either.

I agree also i found out that you may not even need vista or a new graphic card to have DirexX10 Thanks to the Alky Project.
http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/DX10-ftopict233...
So why do a want to spend $250 + or - for vista, again & again & again?
can you say" Microsoft is a rip off company "
April 25, 2007 11:08:58 AM

8O Ouch, Nvidia has some serious issues with their 8800 vista drivers. After reading this, I'm giving serious thought to keeping my 7900gs until 2008. There are no DX 10 games right now anyway, and at least the 7900gs is working well on my vista computer. I feel sorry for those who bought an 8800 that isn't working because of faulty vista drivers. However, I don't think they will get very far with a lawsuit.
April 25, 2007 12:05:42 PM

I've been working over in the microsoft.vista.games newsgroup since late Dec, as well as popping in and out of other game forums like FEAR and EA's. In the newsgroup, the consensus has been for a while that the nVidia drivers have been lacking from day one.

People would report problems with certain games like Tiger Woods 2007, in the EA forums the majority of the people who couldn't play were Nvidia owners, the people who could ATI

Same for FEAR. Battlefield etc

With each release of a new set of nVida drivers, people are reporting they can now play their games again. These are games that I've been able to play since the launce of Vista RTM. So it's my opinion that the problem(s) can't be placed on Vista (or at least not 100%)

Though I'm currently an ATI owner (technically there are two nvidia cards and 2 ATI cards in the household) I'm really shocked and surprised by nVidia dropping the ball on this one. They had a really hot hand with the 8800 series. But I did predict that by June they would have most of the problems sorted out.

I'm not a sue happy kinda guy, but sometimes I think a company needs a lawsuit or other embarrassing PR SNAFU to keep them honest and focused
April 25, 2007 12:18:30 PM

I have had Vista since RC1 and I have two Nvidia cards, 7800GT and the 7950GTX, and I have really not had much problems with either of them, except some lockups in RC1. Very few lock ups in Vista since release.

Some of the lock ups had to do with my PSU going out. Trust me I researched the problem trying to figure out why I was constantly locking up, even reformatting and reinstallin XP 64. I still got lockups in XP.

After getting some utility tools, I found that my PSU wasn't supplying enough power for my system. I have since fixed that with a new, read BETTER, PSU and everything has been fine, with just a few lock ups, and this has been about 15 days running.

I still believe that some of the lockups are not Nvidia/MS's fault, as my case isn't the best at keeping everything cool, but never fear, the new case should arrive today! :) 

Vista hasn't given me any problems and my gameplay hasn't been affected. I play the games mentioned, C&C3, WoW, Counter Strike, etc.. I am going to get Supreme Commander though, but payday is a few days away still :( 

I didn't see a dramatic increase in FPS or anything, but I can say I have seen a bit of an increase, not a decrease as some have said.

I am running AMD 4200(939), DFI Lanparty, 2gigs OCZ Ram, Raptor 74gig and 150gig HD's, and no overclocking. Though I have been known to OC to test a few things.

I won't say people shouldn't be having problems, but as with all new Tech stuff, you gotta have some PATIENCE and the ability to find work arounds, sometimes, to get things to work.

I also do not have any problems with my XFI Soundblaster, works fine.

I have a few things running on XP 64bit drivers, and I am having no problems.

Sometimes it isn't the Tech that is causing the problem, the problem can be traced to the user and their impatience on finding/getting something to work.

Honestly though, too many people have problems with the 8800 to blame this all on MS, while they maybe partially to blame, the bulk of it has to be placed on Nvidia's shoulders. You can hate MS all you want, but don't let that hate blind you to where the real blame needs to be placed.

BTW, I am no MS fanboi, but I do make my money by Programming using MS software. So there is no love in my bones for software that does indeed work one day, and doesn't the next.
a b U Graphics card
April 25, 2007 12:24:44 PM

If I remember correctly, it was mostly the 88's. And for awhile, just after/around Vista's release they didnt even have a SLI solution at all
April 25, 2007 12:39:41 PM

That it is the DX10 "vista ready" cards that have problems just makes it more weird.
Is DX10/Vista not working with the hardware or vice versa?
Is there any issues yet with ATIs cards, anyone heard anything?
That would help rule out vista as the culprit somewhat, wouldn't it?
April 25, 2007 1:08:14 PM

From what I've seen in the Vista newsgroup, The 8800 family had it the worse, then the 7900 family and a touch with the 7800. I have the 6800GT and I ran most of the games on it, and it was fine.

The FEAR threads is mostly about the 8800 series having huge performance losses under Vista, but not XP.

On a side note, I have the 1900XTX and Vista normally performs about 3-10% slower than XP (I dual boot) which is in line with what Microsoft said to expect. With the latest set of cat 7.4 drivers, FEAR is benchmarking the same as XP. Doom3 is about 15 fps slower under Vista.

It will probably be a good month before we see enough R600 cards\users to know how it behaves under Vista
April 25, 2007 1:29:08 PM

This is absurd. If a company releases a shady product, punish the company by NOT BUYING THEIR PRODUCTS. If I called up a lawyer every time I was disappointed in a product, I wouldn't be able to afford my phone bill.

Lawyers are ruining everything.
a b U Graphics card
April 25, 2007 2:24:01 PM

word
April 25, 2007 2:28:30 PM

Quote:
This is absurd. If a company releases a shady product, punish the company by NOT BUYING THEIR PRODUCTS. If I called up a lawyer every time I was disappointed in a product, I wouldn't be able to afford my phone bill.

Lawyers are ruining everything.


So very true. The best advise is to not support the company / product. I've always been a firm believer of that...and in the minority, unfortunately. People seem to rather whine, complain, cry about something, hoping someone will hold their hand and tell them it will all be ok.

Sorry, a little too much emotion came out. :wink:
April 25, 2007 2:33:49 PM

Quote:
8O Ouch, Nvidia has some serious issues with their 8800 vista drivers. After reading this, I'm giving serious thought to keeping my 7900gs until 2008. There are no DX 10 games right now anyway, and at least the 7900gs is working well on my vista computer. I feel sorry for those who bought an 8800 that isn't working because of faulty vista drivers. However, I don't think they will get very far with a lawsuit.


I've also attempted to stick with ATI cards myself. Just going through the posts here at Tom's and elsewhere, it "seems" that ATI provides better support for their hardware. But, the temptation is quite strong to quit waiting for ATI to get their card out, and get an 8800. In XP and the latest games, it is quite nice. I also have no inclination to go to Vista, either.
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