The 'Ow' starts now

Hmmm Ho, just another Anti-Microsoft article.

Some of that seems to be common sense stuff to me, If you use a vendors proprietiere language or package, then you're locked into that vendor. This goes on every day in teh corporate and Govt world. Look into Medial Imaging. You buy a GE pacs, you can't add AGFA pieces later. You have to use their special workstations to view those medical images, you can't just build your own.

Every Company that is in the business of making money, works this way. Microsoft, like IBM before them, just takes it really serious. Of course, Intersystem's OpenM enviroment is the same, they own the MUMPS enviroment and they'll crush anything that gets in their way or threatens them.

It's the way of the world

But how can you say that ? Apple's would prefer all your music be in AAC format and not MP3. Maybe you ipod works different, but I'm forced to use Apple's Itune software load MP3s to my Shuffle and then it renames the songs on me. My other MP3 players I could just drag and drop music from windows Explorer.

And how open has the Mac been in the past ? How much hardware option did you have with a MAC before they finally went to Intel ? And you really believe if Apple ruled the world, they would do whatever the OpenSource enviroment wanted and not make more things Apple centric?

Sure there will always be little guys other there bucking the system. Heck when MS started in the LAN business Novel ruled the world, Where they a completely open enviroment ? Or did they become more open after microsoft took shares away from them ? Is Sun's UNIX open ?

I have no doubt that if Linux took over the world, those in control of the kernel and Distros would have more of a Microsoft's style of doing things. At that point there will be a growing number of people who start to hate Linux and the way they do things and someone else will come along that people will like. Do you really believe Linux will remain free forever ?
It's a never ending cycle. Power corrupts, Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

*Snicker*

Oh yes, I'm just as locked in (if not more so) than I would be with Windows, I just have a pretty candy shell for a computer!

Apple is just as fiendish as MS... they just have so little market share that no one seems to notice. They've proven it with the iPod. Being "stuck" with Apple is no better than being "stuck" with Windows. It's just that for some reason that escapes me, people seem happier about it. Maybe it's all the hippy commercials and the happy smoke.

*Snicker*

Oh yes, I'm just as locked in (if not more so) than I would be with Windows, I just have a pretty candy shell for a computer!

Apple is just as fiendish as MS... they just have so little market share that no one seems to notice. They've proven it with the iPod. Being "stuck" with Apple is no better than being "stuck" with Windows. It's just that for some reason that escapes me, people seem happier about it. Maybe it's all the hippy commercials and the happy smoke.

Most, if not all Mac users are happy and loyal users, Mac does not have the compatibility problems that currently affect Windows; Vista is the answer to the compatibly issue. Like Apple, M$ will have full control of what will work with their OS.

It's too bad that M$ must move in this direction as it was nice to configure a PC as I wanted, about the only reason to have M$ OS. Since M$ is going the way of Apple, better off with the original. Linux is an excellent replacement for the M$ OS, can tinker and configure to your hearts content. IMO

*Snicker*

Oh yes, I'm just as locked in (if not more so) than I would be with Windows, I just have a pretty candy shell for a computer!

Apple is just as fiendish as MS... they just have so little market share that no one seems to notice. They've proven it with the iPod. Being "stuck" with Apple is no better than being "stuck" with Windows. It's just that for some reason that escapes me, people seem happier about it. Maybe it's all the hippy commercials and the happy smoke.
Agreed, the iPod really does prove they are just like Microsoft. I wouldn't think Apple is "innovative" because like Microsoft, most of the ideas in their OS has been done before they have implemented them...

This whole MS mess is going to/already has a lot of people up in arms. I for one am not too happy about it. But that is the way of the world. And sadly, I and a lot of other gamers like me will probably fold and cave in to the Vista war machine once that shiny Golden Ticket in the form of a must-have game comes out for it- FORCING you to upgrade if you want to play it in all its glory. In order for this to change the programmers need to get wise and give us an alternative platform to game on. But from the current course this probably won't change any time soon (sheds tear for future) unless something drastic happens, e.g. antitrust case that will result in the breaking up of MS.

Until game developers wake up and realize that you can just-as-good-if-not-better performance out of a Linux distro, Ubuntu, per se, we will be stuck with Wintel madness. The path of least resistance of course says this will not happen outside of the occasional porting.

Most people won't even care since almost all my friends are computer illiterate - and their take on comps is like a toaster. They buy it and take it out of the box and expect the thing to work. Once the box kicks the bucket they go and buy a new one. Guess which OS is going to be on that box? Windows Vista, of course. Windows is windows to these people and they just don't care about DX10 being exclusive to Vista or the DRM infection that is choking your PC's performance. As long as they can download the newest Hinder or Fergie tracks to their iPod and use their AOL they don't give a flying prick. IT'S THAT SIMPLE. Period.

And once again the intelligent few of us are dragged down into the water like drowning rats by the ignorant and outright stupid masses into using Vista. Glug. Glug.

Do all Mac users have a different view of reality or is it truly a lack of knowledge of Microsoft products? Since when has Mac OS9 or X not had compatibility issues? You speak as though OSX is the Holy Grail of computing. My dad is or was an avid Mac fan but I continually heard things like "product A only works on OS9 and not OSX, I had to buy an upgrade to OSX", or "this piece of hardware isn't compatible with Mac but works on Windows", that's not compatibility. Up until Vista I've been able to run about 99% of my legacy hardware and software on XP. That is compatibility.

Once again, where do you get this information from? Do you only read the biased opinions and rantings of the anti-Microsoft press-machine? How are PCs not going to be completely configurable just because of Vista? I can buy whatever piece of hardware I want, same with software. I have complete control over how the OS is configured.

I've been building systems for 16 years and in the 6 or 7 years of using XP, I've only needed to re-activate it once (and I had 4 systems using it.) Furthermore, making a quick 10 or 15 minute phone call really isn't that painful. Would I prefer Windows without activation? Of course, but Microsoft has done a surprisingly good job of minimizing the impact of its activation scheme.

I hate to burst your bubble but why would programmers write games for a hideously small user base? Game developers want to make money, just like you and me, and therefore they develop for the largest audience. If Linux is so superior and fabulous why aren't open source developers making awesome games? You'll probably respond that it is the lack of hardware and drivers, well, that too could be rectified by open-source developers.

You just summed up basically what everyone dislikes about Mac/Linux/open-source zealots - the "I'm better than everyone else because I use an esoteric OS that really isn't that superior to Windows". You're the type that decries the faults of Windows but conveniently ignores the limitations and problems with your OS of choice. I guess the "ignorant and outright stupid masses" that are innovating and actually delivering multi-million dollar solutions using Microsoft products are clearly beneath your crowd . Now where did I put that rat trap...

Disclaimer: While I admit that I am pro-Microsoft and have been developing large-scale solutions with their products for the last 10 years, I do not blindly follow the fold. If there are products from other companies that do a better job, I'll definitely use them. If a better development environment than VS2005 comes along, I'll use it. I've found numerous faults and issues with Microsoft products while working on various projects and I've stuck it to them (through their Premier Support.) What I do not do is fall into the trap of believing the great deal of anti-Microsoft propaganda that circulates the internet. A lot of it is poorly written and much of it incorrect or misleading and typically authored by people with limited knowledge or experience with the subject material. It's sad that people hate Microsoft so much yet truly don't understand why, other than that they "read something somewhere..."

As for this article, it is just a series of misdirected paragraphs that cite supposedly "authoritative articles" on how Vista is the doom of the free-world. Those reference articles are non-sensical biased garbage. Gee, I could write an article, twist the facts to my liking, and make Mac OSX look pretty poor as well.

The article is full of false claims. Take for instance the article claiming that XAML is a direct attack on HTML and that Microsoft is going to Shanghai everyone on the internet into using MS products. That statement is false and one heck of an assumption.

It says a lot about how petty "other" OS users are when they scrounge the net looking for the best and most outrageous claims to discredit Microsoft's offerings. Don't believe everything you read...

So will you use Vista? IMO it is also crap. If there was any desire for innovation, or any real competition, MS could have put out the SAME OS with much lower performance requirements. Or they could have kept in the components that they axed, such as a (IMO needed) file system update. Not to mention the myriad other problems I have encountered personally or read about. Granted a lot of these are just normal launch problems, but some are problems that should have been expected and handled before launch.

Don't get my wrong, I am not a M$ hater. I have made a lot of money in my lifetime supporting m$ products and will continue to do so in the future. I also don't necessarily agree with the OPs comments. However, I do think that Vista is disappointing, at least to me. And I AM in favor of increased competition, because it ALWAYS benefits the consumer in the long run.

Well, Superfetch is an improved prefetch, so not really, and Readyboost is a cheap subsititute (and No Replacement) for buying extra RAM, which is needed because of the heavy requirements, so again not really. A REAL innovation would have been actually implementing WinFS or a journaled file system, or properly implementing the IPv6 stack (this may have been fixed, I'm not sure).

There is a fundamental difference here. XP is somewhat usable with its minimum system requirements, Vista is pretty much a slug at the minimum level, so they are NOT recommending more than is needed. Every review I have seen states the when they say minimum requirements, they mean MINIMUM. Moreover, the leading competing OSes: OSX, XP (yes it is competition) and the *Nixes, can do pretty much the same thing (especially Linux and OSX) with much less hardware.

All I am saying is they could have done a better job of streamlining and optimizing the code if they had desired to. Consider this: Vistas Reqs are about 4 times higher than XPs. Is Vista a 4 times better or more productive OS? I understand that there is no real linear comparison, but thats not my point.

There are some nice features in Vista. I like Aero and breadcrumbs (which is very similar to the system used in explorer2 and other systems) and Windows Defender is a needed improvement for most users. I just think that they could have done a much better job on the OS overall.

And this is without even going into my thoughts on HDCP and what a bad idea it is.

Thats not true at all.

This is the fourth completely different hardware setup, not counting numerous memory and HD upgrades, that I have gone through since XP first came out. Do you know how many have been influenced by a new OS? ZERO.

Do I want an OS that can benefit from and take advantage of my Hardware? Of course. Do I want one that dictates what newer hardware I need? No.

And yes, I realize that as an enthusiast/professional I am a special case.

True. And I agree that the vast majority of Vista sales will be OEM distributions that are included with the PC (a higher percentage than with XP). I just don't think that Vista in itself is not enough to make people upgrade. I helped three "average Joe's" buy new PCs in the last three months, and not one of them thought it would be worth the wait for a new OS, especially one where they might have to learn a new interface. And this is before I gave them any advice either way.

Personally, I am going to wait and see if the first SP fixes the things I don't like about it before I get it, but thats just me.

I have XP and Linux to keep me happy till then.

I do understand where you are coming from, I am just not convinced that Vista is worth it for most people yet.

I don't know that I ever thought it was broken, though there are some aspects I personally would call 'misguided'.

I did just tell a co-worker yesterday that Vista would be great if XP had never come out. I just don't see enough tangible gains that differentiate it myself.

Maybe... "After Vista, a deluge of E-waste to developing countries, Greenpeace warns" read more here.
Vista is not environmental friendly.
If your into Medical Imaging check out Imaging3. IMGG

I am all for environmentalism and thinking more "green" but that is possibly the dumbest article I've ever read in a long time. Let's blame Microsoft for environmental destruction because they released a new OS! This is the "blame everyone else" mentality. No one has to upgrade to Vista. You don't have to play DX10 games. You don't have to play protected HD/Blu-Ray content on your computer. So tell me again, why does this mean that everyone will dump their computers just for Vista? If computers end up being thrown out blame the consumers and their inability to hold on to what they have instead of wanting the "next new toy."

If this is "truth" then perhaps we should start complaining everytime any manufacturer releases something new and better that could lead to previous generations of products being thrown out. How about game publishers? What about all those video cards that end up in the garbage? Cellphones probably have a massive turn-over rate too! I think Green Peace should stick to the real offenders, such as war mongers, oil companies, factories, coal burning powerplants, airlines, paper mills etc.

While that article is more reasonable, it is still misguided. Microsoft is not responsible for DRM. Microsoft implemented HDCP due to pressure from the film industry. HD/Blu-Ray players have to comply with DRM as well but you don't hear people complaining about that. Microsoft isn't forcing hardware vendors to implement something new...that's the film industry.

again... you can link all the articles you want that proclaim drm ruins everything. but... i actually own vista. ive copied, downloaded stuff, burnt downloaded isos that im watching right now... so where exactly does the drm step in and "limit my internet rights"?

can someone point me to a feature that will stop me from doing what i wish? please? and dont link someones article telling me its bad, actually tell me where to look yourself please. thanks. i'll be waiting. in the mean time, i got some more torrents to dl and isos to burn and mp3s to encode. poweramp ftw.

btw. if toms doesnt re write his site with xml... does that mean his html code wont be seen anymore? microsoft changing the entire internet to use xml "or else"?? i dont think so...

nice to see people like Digitalfiends know what im talking about. you can post all the anti ms articles you want, but from what ive read none of them have a copy of it. its all hearsay. "supposedly" isnt a valid argument for this topic. i wana see someone post that has used vista and been stopped cold by a drm feature. the xml argument is minimal at best. not everyone will impliment xml only into there sites so it doesnt matter. <b> <p> <whatever> arent going anywhere.

and its cool to know that this hd feature that has "drm" in it still works with vista. ya know, since vista uses drm to stop this sort of thing. makes sense.

</b> oh woops lol seems that "<b>" still works. my bad lol.

again... i can share anything i want. infact im watching divx movies off my girls pc... that she downloaded...

until someone can post on this threat that "vista didnt let me do <fill in the blank> this argument is dead. i can use my pc the same as i did with xp, cept with the obvious diffrence.

virtual drives work. unlicensed mp3 encoder works. q3 rtcw rail road tycoon 3(lol i know i know but i love that game!!!) age of empires 3 have all been downloaded along with various movies mp3s and whatever... all work. i can share, access and do whatever i want. the user access control feature is for protection, not limitation. if you see it pop up when you arent even touching the mouse, its showing you that your security is being breached, not that your doing something ms doesnt want you to. the firewall is for your protection. the spyware protection is for your.... forget it. its obvious.

find me something that vista wont let me access or use. please. then i'll see all your points.

Go glad to hear it. I researched the DMCA and the Analog Hole. Where do you seeing all this going? Vista may be the tip of the ice burg. Why take the chance for the pretty UI now with Vista? Time will tell, not purchasing Vista shows 'we' the consumer are not happy with the direction M$ has taken with Hollywood.

Its late and I enjoy talking with you, please leave your thoughta and I'll do the same tomorrow.

Good Night.

I agree, worst this time around. Maybe next time will be better, but then again seeing the direction the OS has taken... Google needs to step in and take over... at least the OS would be cheaper or even free IMO.
GN

hmmm you actually made sense. but still, i thought the argument was about drm? what part of windows has deleted your files? it doesnt come with anti virus software, just spyware protection. i guess the use of vista as an entertainment os is diffrent from a server os which is bringing all the IT people to bash it. the IT guy at my job bought it before i did and plans to implement it within the year. he and i both understand that it will come down to being around for a while before he makes the move, cause no one would upgrade a business to a brand new os within 2 weeks of it going public.

but i ment more along the lines of software as in games or none ms programs. adobe and such all run with exes and ive tryed again and again to get wine working only to be shot down by the security and kernel protection within linux. sure i'd use a free os to run my stuff if it would install. developers(in the consumer market) dont make stuff for linux cause for the most part, people dont use it. i would if it would install and run even one of my programs. but why go and learn an entire new os when this works fine(for me at least, i wonder why it doesnt work for anyone else). ive hit one problem with ati tool but other then that all my virtual drive software, anti virus, multimedia apps and random games all work. none of my files have been deleted(that i can see) and if it did delete them... well honestly, what part of windows deletes my documents or my music?

i can knock vista for not being noob friendly if you dont know what admin rights means, but even with the pop up message, there are links right inside it to give access to all users... or just switch to admin yourself.

i dunno. i know my way around windows in the first place so maybe its hard for me to think of the random people starting to use it without any clue about what there doing. i got it cause i already knew all my stuff worked with the iso i got. the same way i realized i dont have the time or patience to learn linux commands to install wine or how to go throu root and add directx to the invisible directories or how to get the cds to understand that i already have the next cd. the fact that linux cant see my 200gigs of ntfs file also turns me off. back up to 30 dvds or redownload it all over again?