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Why does Tomshardware call Linux Other Software and Vista..

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February 4, 2007 10:35:24 PM

Just wondering why Linux is given such a low status while it has such a big development history and is really a grown huge OS. Is it money related? Many people use it and I don't think you can just shove Linux under Other Software anymore. It's a big understatement. Many people put Vista aside and go for Linux instead for many good reasons. Hope Tomshardware could do something about this cause this way Linux will never get the credits it really deserves. Anyone who disagrees with this idea please explain to me why. I mean...it's not only about money is it? ;)  If this doesn't work I might as well put up a poll later on and let people Vote to see if Linux really doesn't deserve to have it's own name carried the same way as all those super super great Windows products. I mean common...we are not living in the stoneage anymore are we?
a b 5 Linux
February 5, 2007 1:54:53 AM

Linux is often underestimated and misunderstood.

Also most people have no vested interest in promoting it.

There is no or little financial interest in promoting it so most people that do, do so for other reasons.

Vista and other commercial software often has billions of dollars worth of marketing behind it.

Unfortunately it is common practice for vendors to pay for product placement, online, in the printed media, TV, radio and in the stores.
a b 5 Linux
February 5, 2007 2:07:14 AM

I honestly think mostly it has to do with the fact that, at it's core, THG is heavily oriented towards gaming. Since most of the "hardcore gamer" games are Windows-only releases, there is less interest in Linux as a viable OS. While great strides have been made recently to dispel the myths and change the truths, there is still the stigma that hangs around Linux as being either a hobbyist OS (for the older users) or a more business-related OS for servers and workstations (for the newer users).

Edit: And, as linux_0 so aptly pointed out, marketing dollars speak loudly.
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a b 5 Linux
February 5, 2007 5:37:42 AM

Excellent point! :trophy:

Being gaming oriented it does heavily favor microsoft OSes.

It is amazing however that Linux can run some windows games :-D

Some run better than the do on windows, some work rather well, some work partially and some not at all.

Linux is becoming more viable every day however :-D


Quote:
I honestly think mostly it has to do with the fact that, at it's core, THG is heavily oriented towards gaming. Since most of the "hardcore gamer" games are Windows-only releases, there is less interest in Linux as a viable OS. While great strides have been made recently to dispel the myths and change the truths, there is still the stigma that hangs around Linux as being either a hobbyist OS (for the older users) or a more business-related OS for servers and workstations (for the newer users).

Edit: And, as linux_0 so aptly pointed out, marketing dollars speak loudly.
February 5, 2007 6:37:30 PM

Quote:
I honestly think mostly it has to do with the fact that, at it's core, THG is heavily oriented towards gaming. Since most of the "hardcore gamer" games are Windows-only releases, there is less interest in Linux as a viable OS. While great strides have been made recently to dispel the myths and change the truths, there is still the stigma that hangs around Linux as being either a hobbyist OS (for the older users) or a more business-related OS for servers and workstations (for the newer users).

Edit: And, as linux_0 so aptly pointed out, marketing dollars speak loudly.


Tom started out as a hardware site, sysdoc.pair; he gave the details on how to O/C the cpu and still does of course. I found it so cool... anyway that's the reason why gamers flock to the site IMO.

I'm back to Linux after a several years as a M$ follower in correlation with more free time and the push from Vista. Linux has gone a long way in the last 7 or so years and deserves better recognition.

I noticed that OS X is not even listed... thinking of getting a MacBook for my wife as she needs something that works and works all the time. I'm tired of fixing problems for her over the phone while I’m at work or away; you know, typical window hassles and she’s all for it.
February 8, 2007 7:09:57 AM

Quote:

To be honest I like the forum the way it is right now as I feel a real linux bond :) 


Yes, I too like the Linux forums as is... There are no 30 posts per day with the same topic being asked like in the CPU section :x (Just look at the amount of Heat related topics about C2D in the CPU section, someone really needs to sticky a single "temperature of C2D" with all the information people need in it... Minus the flamewars :p  )

With such a small, well bonded forum section like the Linux subsection, we have a lot of good information, that focuses on getting the right stuff to the right people when they need it. Basically any questions asked, Linux_0 & bmouring are always there to provide excellent support or information! These guys are amazing :!:

As a Linux newcomer, I look forward to the day I can provide other people, who are where I am now with information and solutions as fluent as bmouring and Linux_0 8)
a b 5 Linux
February 9, 2007 5:18:54 PM

Quote:
...
Basically any questions asked, Linux_0 & bmouring are always there to provide excellent support or information! These guys are amazing :!:
...


Aww, I feel loved :)  From what I've seen the people who frequent this board will get to the point where they no longer need assistance and instead dole it out since they earnestly see the benefits of Linux and they are the benefits that matter most to them. It's just a matter of getting familiar with the "feel" of how things are done in Linux/*BSD and then (if needed) expand your google-fu for those instances when you get stuck.
a b 5 Linux
February 11, 2007 1:48:59 PM

> man finger

8O
a b 5 Linux
February 11, 2007 5:39:25 PM

8O 8O :roll: :?:
February 11, 2007 10:30:06 PM

Finger'ing google just isn't as fun anymore :oops: 
a b 5 Linux
February 11, 2007 11:36:14 PM

Yes you must finger responsibly :lol: 


Quote:
Finger'ing google just isn't as fun anymore :oops: 
February 12, 2007 11:31:05 AM

Fredi Got Finger'd 8O
a b 5 Linux
February 12, 2007 6:14:58 PM

Given that we have such gems as finger and gimp can well stop being coy and admit what the f in fdisk stands for.
February 12, 2007 11:22:09 PM

Quote:
Given that we have such gems as finger and gimp can well stop being coy and admit what the f in fdisk stands for.


Maybe followed by an explanation on gparted too :D 
a b 5 Linux
February 12, 2007 11:25:36 PM

lol :lol: 

man parted

should take care of that :-D
February 13, 2007 12:59:55 AM

Yes Linux is awesome. No, its importance should not be diminished. If you feel that the Linux section should be listed as its own OS, get a few people to PM Fredi asking for this change.

Personally I like where the Linux section is. Hidden from talk of DRM, AMD vs Intel, how to do something in a sticky three topics above your own post and other such stupidity

And there is a sticky on proper Core 2 temperatures. Not that it stops people from asking the damn question over and over. (-_-)*
a b 5 Linux
February 13, 2007 6:07:20 PM

Quote:
Yes Linux is awesome. No, its importance should not be diminished. If you feel that the Linux section should be listed as its own OS, get a few people to PM Fredi asking for this change.

Personally I like where the Linux section is. Hidden from talk of DRM, AMD vs Intel, how to do something in a sticky three topics above your own post and other such stupidity

And there is a sticky on proper Core 2 temperatures. Not that it stops people from asking the damn question over and over. (-_-)*


Excellent point, I do like the community feel in this part of the forums. I believe this is for you :trophy:
February 13, 2007 6:30:36 PM

Thank you, my first Linux section trophy. :) 
a b 5 Linux
February 15, 2007 1:38:20 PM

Most places that do anything with IT support completely ignore Linux even though a fair number of people in their organization may run it. There are quite a few reasons for this, and I'll outline the ones that apply for THG:

1. THG organization probably runs a lot of Windows machines and gets some sort of discounted rate on Windows and Office licenses. Microsoft doesn't like any competition, so if somebody runs many non-Windows computers other than a few Apples, MS may very well yank discounts and charge full freight for Windows and Office licenses. Quite a few companies have either gotten so locked into MS Office file formats or have a few custom Windows applications that would make it very hard to walk if MS jacked up license fees, so this is a threat. Acknowledging that people use a non-MS, non-Apple OS by providing support is just asking for this action.

2. THG also gets advertising dollars from MS. Thus pigeonholing Linux and promoting MS is in their best financial interest.

3. THG is primarily a gaming site, and most games run on Windows, or at least the $50, need-a-$500-GPU-to-run ones do. So naturally most of the readers will run the OS that runs their games.

4. I'd be willing to bet that the average THG reader and poster is probably a junior high student or high-schooler or maybe an undergraduate in college- maybe. Most of those kids don't have the time nor the patience to learn an entirely new OS, especially if it can't run all of their video games. Thus it's not likely that many people here use Linux at all, and even fewer as their primary OS.

5. The kids also grew up in the era of full GUI OSes and computers that are largely configured and set up out of the box. Computers used to require significant set-up and configuration ability, everything from setting jumpers to set IRQs to manually setting up OS configuration by editing text files. Oh, and the CLI was the method du jour of controlling these machines. The know that Linux has a CLI and that you may very well have to open it up and use it. MS has done a good job with their FUD campaign and now most people think anything not done in full shiny GUI mode is backwards. So they think Linux is not only hard but old and backwards- inferior to Windows.

6. Most of the kids also sit on their parents' broadband connection and do nothing besides illegally download stuff anyway. So whereas you or I would rather legally use an open-source OS or program if we didn't want to pay an arm and a leg for DRMware rather than deal with cracks and warez, most others would simply download cracks and warez off P2P.

So that's the skinny of it.
February 15, 2007 1:44:16 PM

Quote:
5. The kids also grew up in the era of full GUI OSes and computers that are largely configured and set up out of the box. Computers used to require significant set-up and configuration ability, everything from setting jumpers to set IRQs to manually setting up OS configuration by editing text files. Oh, and the CLI was the method du jour of controlling these machines. The know that Linux has a CLI and that you may very well have to open it up and use it. MS has done a good job with their FUD campaign and now most people think anything not done in full shiny GUI mode is backwards. So they think Linux is not only hard but old and backwards- inferior to Windows.

Wouldn't that be Apple to be truthful?
a b 5 Linux
February 15, 2007 2:19:24 PM

I think both of them were responsible, to tell the truth. Apple did popularize the GUI and is widely looked onto as the innovator in GUI design and function. And to the best of my knowledge, only two versions of Apple OSes ever shipped with a CLI since the Macintosh shipped in 1984, A/UX and OS X. And A/UX was pretty rare. Apple never really trashed the CLI so to speak, because their products didn't have them. They more promoted their GUI at the expense of Windows' inferior GUI setup.

I really think that Microsoft was much more responsible than Apple at burying the CLI. Windows originated as a GUI that ran on top of straight DOS. One did not have to run Windows at all if they didn't want to as it was an add-on option. Also, there were several DOS vendors, all of which were supposedly able to run Windows. Microsoft knew that to survive in the market, they'd have to emphasize the GUI aspects of Windows over straight DOS. Thus they trashed the CLI something fierce to accomplish this goal. Their strategy worked so well that not a whole lot of people know that Windows STILL ran on top of DOS up to Windows Me and that you could still boot your computer in DOS mode without Windows.

And since far more people ran Windows than Apple OSes and MS put waaaay more advertising dollars out there than Apple did, I say that Microsoft did more to trash CLIs than Apple did.
February 15, 2007 2:29:21 PM

Yeah thats quite true. I wish they kept DOS as it was for the NT incarnations of Windows. DOS and 2000, the most stable non Linux configuration I've ever run. But I was making a razzy point about the shiny GUI's. MS has followed Apple because focus groups they ran before coding Vista said that the people wanted a GUI that looked as pretty as Apples.
February 15, 2007 5:28:55 PM

I must admit that I wish Linux had its own forum just like the other OSes on this site, but I also ilke the smaller feeling, its like the readers of this particular forum are more 'tightly-knit' . I don't know if giving linux it's own forum and putting it on equal footing with the vista forum would really change that, but my guess is that it probably wouldn't.

What I really would like to see, however, is more linux related benchmarks/articles on THG and other tech related sites. Part of the reason why I first explored linux was because of a THG article about linux migration, and that was the last major linux related full-length article i've seen here in over 2.5 years of reading THG. The same goes for AnandTech for that matter. They have their own little tab for linux articles, which is nice, but they haven't updated that since about mid 2005. I am surprised they haven't had any articles about cool things like Quake 4 for linux (when it came out) or neat desktop acceleration through window managers like Beryl and Compiz via XGL/AIGLX. With all the excitement about windows vista abilities, you'd think they would be equally excited about neat capabilities on other systems. Unfortunately, the editors/reviewers here seemed to have signed some sort of contract with MS or something since when MS so much as breathes, THG makes a grand production of it, but they don't even make so much as a sound when really cool things are going on in the Linux camp.

I doubt that THG and its ilk will shift to become a Linux-centric website, but that isn't even what I want, really. All I ask is that they give more than the bi-anual nod towards the developements in the Linux world (and an occasional mention in TGdaily is not exactly what I have in mind either). After all, Linux is a part of computer technology too, and any site that claims to cover that topic can't expect to be able to call themselves reputable and fair and balanced if they don't report about ALL aspects of computing, otherwise we would just have a bunch of sites pushing propaganda for hardware/software vendors and not actual sources of trustworthy information, yes?

That was just my $0.02

-Zorak
February 15, 2007 6:20:31 PM

Quote:
Just wondering why Linux is given such a low status while it has such a big development history and is really a grown huge OS. Is it money related? Many people use it and I don't think you can just shove Linux under Other Software anymore. It's a big understatement. Many people put Vista aside and go for Linux instead for many good reasons. Hope Tomshardware could do something about this cause this way Linux will never get the credits it really deserves. Anyone who disagrees with this idea please explain to me why. I mean...it's not only about money is it? ;)  If this doesn't work I might as well put up a poll later on and let people Vote to see if Linux really doesn't deserve to have it's own name carried the same way as all those super super great Windows products. I mean common...we are not living in the stoneage anymore are we?


I use an updated version of OS/2 called eComStation. http://www.ecomstation.com There is an excellent forum for OS/2-eCS at OS/2 World http://www.os2world.com Neither OS/2 or eCS is mentioned here at all.

There is an OS/2 section at the Thinkpad Forums. http://forum.thinkpads.com

Perhaps instead of listing it in 'other software', have it listed in 'other operating systems'? :?: :?: :idea:
February 15, 2007 7:32:40 PM

You are absolutely right, they have never mentioned OS/2 here. Actually I have never met an OS/2 user before as I thought that OS was long since abandoned by IBM. I wonder, is that eComStation distributed freely? If it is, I might give it a spin just because I have always wondered what OS/2 was like.

And also, you are right. They should have an "other operating systems" forum so that every non-windows user doesn't end up getting lumped in with Linux. After all, there may be a BSD user or two out there (or OS/2 in your case) or in time, maybe even a BeOS user!

As much as I love linux, I hope I didn't come off as a rabid linux zealot earlier. I encourage choice in what platform they use, I don't want everyone to run just one operating system. However, I cannot say that I like or condone apple or OSX, but that is another thread altogether!

-Zorak
a b 5 Linux
February 16, 2007 1:22:46 AM

Quote:
And also, you are right. They should have an "other operating systems" forum so that every non-windows user doesn't end up getting lumped in with Linux. After all, there may be a BSD user or two out there (or OS/2 in your case) or in time, maybe even a BeOS user!


...or IRIX.....

[looks lovingly at my old SGI O2]
February 16, 2007 6:04:45 AM

OS/2 is an OS that was developed jointly by IBM and microsoft way back in the early days of windows (think window v2-v3 here). It is pretty interesting to note that OS/2 is actually the basis upon which Windows NT was created, and we have all seen various iterations of Windows NT being put out over the years (with the most recent being WinXP). I am not actually sure if windows vista is a new version of windows NT or not, so if anyone can answer that little question, i'd be grateful :p 

If you want to know more about OS/2 and its relationship with windows, i am sure you can find lots of information about it on wikipedia.

-Zorak
a b 5 Linux
February 16, 2007 10:56:46 AM

Windows Vista is in fact NT. Here are the NT OSes:

NT 3.1: Windows NT 3.1
NT 3.51: Windows NT 3.51
NT 4.0: Windows NT 4.0
NT 5.0: Windows 2000
NT 5.1: Windows XP
NT 5.2: Windows Server 2003 and XP x86_64
NT 6.0: Windows Vista
February 16, 2007 10:57:06 PM

Quote:
OS/2 is an OS that was developed jointly by IBM and microsoft way back in the early days of windows (think window v2-v3 here). It is pretty interesting to note that OS/2 is actually the basis upon which Windows NT was created, and we have all seen various iterations of Windows NT being put out over the years (with the most recent being WinXP). I am not actually sure if windows vista is a new version of windows NT or not, so if anyone can answer that little question, i'd be grateful :p 

If you want to know more about OS/2 and its relationship with windows, i am sure you can find lots of information about it on wikipedia.

-Zorak


You can find more information on OS/2 and eComStation (the most updated version of it) at http://www.ecomstation.com , http://www.os2world.com , http://www.os2ecs.org , http://www.os2.org , http://www.os2warp.be , http://www.ecomstation.ru plus many other sites on OS/2 and eComStation.

8)
February 16, 2007 11:00:12 PM

Quote:
ill give you a hint why:

what the hell is OS2!


It is OS/2 Warp; an operating system from IBM. Microsoft started developeing it with IBM but stopped when they created their Windows operating system. eComStation is to OS/2 Warp what Win 95 was to Win 3.1. eCS 2.0 is to OS/2 Warp what Vista is to Win95. 8)

http://www.ecomstation.com
!