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Vista Madness (PMP, DRM, WHQL & More)

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February 15, 2007 6:40:58 PM

Since many members have wished me off their threads I have decided to engage your minds here in this thread regarding MS. You could say that this is just another, “Alpha is bashing MS again!” thread. To you it may seem if I am against the people at Redmond and that is almost true. I am against overpriced digital enslavement. I despise seeing smart computer people falling for DRM as a necessary evil. In order to talk about the current situation maybe we should step back in time just a bit and consider some points about whose computer you have there?

Not so long ago Bill Gates said, “Let's face it, the average computer user has the brain of a Spider Monkey.” Let me repeat that, “Let's face it, the average computer user has the brain of a Spider Monkey.” He made so many comments over the years that there are entire sites out there dedicated to quotes from Bill Gates. Don’t you remember a few years ago when the DOJ was after Bill, he decided to make himself ‘Chief Software Architect’? Now during the Vista release he is announced as, “Let’s welcome Bill Gates the Chairman and CEO of MS.” When Bill Gates declares the ACU to be a ‘SPIDER MONKEY’ and those same ACU’s prove his point I start to wish I could deplane.

We don’t deserve to have a person that we made wealthy refer to us as a ‘SPIDER MONKIES’. The developing cult mentality that allows MS to become more outlandish at every turning point seems to suffer from group think mentality and it appears that Bill Gates is correct even though he used the label of ‘Spider Monkey’. I don’t see Bill Gates as a potential leader of the US. I do see him as a threat to the quality of life and to diversification here in the US and even abroad.

Let me shift gears here and move on to the current line of MS products; these being Vista and Office 2007. The computer I’m using is a test bed for both products at the moment and everything appears to be fine. Some think of the word fine along the lines of problem free or OK or even good. I however learned that I should treat the word ‘FINE’ as an acronym. When defined this way fine stands for… F’ed UP, Insecure, Neurotic & Emotional. For me this fits well as both a dynamic and in fact as I will explain.

Many are emotional about the release of Vista since XP seems to be out dated, tired and boring. Years have gone by and surely MS has become even better at doing the ‘code’ thing so Vista will be much better. MS in fact took more than five years and billions of dollars to bring this product to market so we can assume that it will be ‘The Bomb’ of operating systems and office systems. Many among us will be lulled into defending the people that consider us to be ‘SPIDER MONKIES’.

I guess that ACUs become quite neurotic around what they consider ‘their’ computers. Should the ‘Chief Software Architect’ cease to feed the ACUs the necessary code the ACUs might just acquire freedom. The ACU stomps his/her foot and is willing to spend large amounts of money, time and resources in order to keep the MS balloon floating. I contend that I am a consumer and my money speaks volumes depending on where I plop it down.

Just pointing the little things in life out to an ACU should be enough to show just how insecure someone would have to be to want to keep the MS bubble floating. Billions upon billions of dollars have been gutted from the world that might have gone to the disenfranchised or the poor or the weak. Sure Bill has donated billions to his own foundations and that appears to be a positive thing though most of that money simply does the opposite thing that it claims to do. Here you will have to look through the back pages of the news to see the negative aspects. It is true that kids are insecure but to see adults this way lets those who are not under the spell see how vast the group-think really is.

Here I could get into explaining the F part of FINE but since children come here I will simply say ‘BIG FAT MESS’ or the action used by mom and dad to produce families. For the purpose of this thread I will say that Vista is just FINE. If this is what Bill wants you to have then all is just dandy. Oh and you have to pay for it too.

MS Office System 2007:

You will be shocked by this but I have always liked Office and I have been well trained to bark, roll over and beg so I even have trouble seeing the down side to this product. I sometimes even miss ‘Clippy’ and find myself hoping that he is OK. I mainly use Word (I used it for this post) for just about everything. I do know Excel, Power Point and the rest but most of the time I bang away on Word.

Office 2007 seems like more of the same and as to be expected MS fooled with the default document type and has created a sort of ZIP package and this could be both positive and negative. All in all Office looks a bit different, launches a bit quicker, saves a different default document type, has an improved layout with the ribbon. On the other hand, Office does the same old thing and I can type out my thoughts and you can miss the point.

For me it is hard to imagine that the price of Office for the ACU is not less but then again Bill Gates knows what the price point should be. One way to check this is to get a Dell with a business user package and then build a similar system yourself and look at your debit memos. Mr. Dell can do it for less including shipping. All in all I like this version of Office though I believe that the people of Redmond are out of line on the price point.

If MS wasn’t a monopoly one of the other office suites might be able to keep MS’es Office price point in check but with a monopoly there is a striking lack of competition. Monopolists can set the terms and conditions there by entrenching the monopoly even deeper in our daily lives. Naturally innovation stops or slows since there is no reason to reach for the stars when you’re the only one around. Again Bill Gates’ comment regarding ACUs being MONKIES rings in my ears.

MS Windows Vista:

I find Vista to be the most SHOCKING product of all time. To me the King has no clothes with the launch of this time bomb of a product. If you look past your inner monkey you will see all of the Vista innovations as individually degrading, privacy stealing, Matrix like monopolist propaganda that looks all fresh and new. Many will, “OOooooOooOOooAHahHAHAOOOOoo(monkey sounds).” as Bill unloads his version of the Brooklyn Bridge on you. Don’t be fooled!

On the bright side we can look at a different theme and get to hear about an OS that is packed with features. I want to like Vista yet I am always skeptical when someone expects me to hand them over nearly $400.00. I tend to look closely at the features to see if they are worth that 100% increase in retail price for the product. Folks it’s your money after all and I can’t tell you what to do with it though if you gave it to me I might be able to get my kids into college. Consumers have a great weapon called CASH and by not giving it to a given company they can change to a different future.

To me Vista sells Fascism globally since it happens to be party-line software. I never thought I would see the day that Bill Gates would do a ‘COUP’ to the entire HDDVD/MEDIA industry. There are millions of PCs and why would Warner, Sony and the others want to be ‘OUT OF THE BOX’. “Alpha, I don’t buy that line about the fascism you’re selling. Big business uses capitalism and that is not fascism or even socialism so all that is left is simply good business!” is something you might say? You could dismiss my concerns as unreasonable or even paranoia. This could be, then again perhaps, you are just defending the ‘party-line’?

MS was found guilty by the FED of several things relating to MS being a MONOPOLY. During that time there was an election and the Republicans ceased control over the Senate, House, Executive and the DoJ. This administration chose to simply spank MS rather than truly break them up. MS was to separate into two divisions with the OS in one and Office in the other. Even then those that followed the OJ like trial didn’t see what that would actually do for Americans as Bill Gates would still get all of the money. As I recall the other day Bill was on the TV explaining how MS was launching Vista and Office 2007 and we see that Office and Vista are one in the same. The DoJ has no power or influence over a monopoly that is even bigger than AT&T (shocker Ma Bell is back too).

You may say, “The nuts and bolts are what you should discuss since politics have nothing to do with computers Alpha.” No matter how you slice it politics have everything to do with everything else including computers. I would rather discuss the nuts and bolts but many people here don’t see how huge the monopoly problem is and how great its influence is over the finished Vista product. Some will go as far as saying that I am spreading FUD. Those people are in way deep over their heads and there is little that can be done for them.

Vista happens to look pretty good if you’re into the glass look on the GUI. In the past I used many non-MS 3D themes and even some MACOSX themes with Throbers and everything. In other posts here I listed links to various 3D objects and effects for XP and even Vista. Here my point is that if Aero is Vista then Bill Gates wasted billions for things that had already been done. I guess we must peel some shell to get to the lobster tail so grab your nut cracker and get your bib since this could get messy.

Outside of some cosmetic stuff and counter intuitive computing that chooses to use more resources and energy than ever the guts of Vista are hinged on PMP, AACS and DRM. Others have written extensively about this yet people respond with a, “Yea but Vista is so cool!” In order to discuss this rationally we have to decide several issues in the court of public opinion. Should the legislative bodies rule in favor of corporations and businesses then the citizens need to put an end to it. I don’t know how many posts I read where someone claims that this or that is illegal. Just the other day I made a comment about how you may get a virus and the reply said that I had assumed he did something illegal since I mentioned torrents, porn and crackz. All I have to do is add a Z on the end and it must be illegal. Torrents are legal some of the contents may be questionable. Porn is legal as long as I’m 18 or older and as long as those pictured are 18 or older as well. There are many game cracks and patches that are legal.

Please understand that I do condone file sharing, mass downloading, cracking, reverse engineering torrents, screeners, porno and all the rest. There is no crime since there is no money that I make. My money is earned between 6AM and 6PM by actual work. Computers have become commercial add machines and poor replacements for companionship. PMP, AACS and DRM punish those that spend money on media or maybe to put it differently choose to waste money on frivolous crap. Shocker of shockers AACS was cracked so decryption of HDDVD and B-Ray can commence full blast.

Hardware and software (including media) cost more for the masses due to DRM and going after families for file swapping. Back in the day 12” records were copied to cassette or even 8-track for lots of reasons and I never remember a record store allowing me to return a scratched record or even a warped one yet I spent thousands and made copies of everything. The discs have changed, the songs are just as meaningless if not more so. The content in some cases is foul and immoral and these people are so cut throat that they organize and create RIAAs and MPAs.

Over the past few years people have been brainwashed into thinking of moral issues as criminal issues. If I rent a movie then I suppose I should charge my friends the price of admission if they watch it with me and then mail that into the MPA? The rental center actually charges money for members to watch it and if you copy one Metallica video Lars shoves a drum stick in your butt. Any way if the label “cyber pirate” makes you feel better that’s great but labels are wrong. After all Bill chose to label ACLs as SPIDER MONKIES.

I want to give you an example of how deep this goes. The DMCA grants all media holders the right to keep one copy of a given piece of media. You are by law allowed to make a copy. Those that don’t have kids might not realize how few scratches you can get on a PS3 B-ray disc before it stops working. AACS is the encryption used on HDDVD and prevents you from making that legal copy; in the next breath devising a method to decrypt that AACS DVD amounts to an offence of the DMCA that grants the right to make the backup copy. Laws have to protect the commonwealth and be fair. MS fits into this madness with PMP or Protected Media Pathway.

On its face PMP seems pretty good but then you have to wonder how it is going to benefit the user. What they tell you is that it protects you from ‘evil doers’ and in reality thanks to HDDVDDecrypter HDDVD encryption is dead unless there is an AACS part II. So if you want to keep in a compliant state with PMP you will need new hardware and a new OS that works with that hardware to authorize playback of HD Media. Part of the reason we are told that the cost of Windows has nearly doubled is because DRM, PMP and AACS have to be part of the kernel core.

With the addition of the PMP to the core it appears that Bill Gates has decided that the RIAA has to do it Bill’s way or be out of the box and increases the cost of ownership to you and me since the new PMP scheme requires DX10 video cards with HDMI (or for the moment compliant DVI), compliant sound cards that prevent HD media from leaving the PMP, etc. I don’t have enough for a HDTV and it looks like my PCs are headed for the Stone Age and this one is only a year old. Face it these are becoming toys of the rich kids. I can be a “POOR SPIDER MONKEY” now.

Simple things like a proper UNC are great provided all of the shares are still accessible. If you’re having issues with Linux based devices don’t cry to Microsoft since they are making it hard to connect. I posted about my NAS that is a problem child now with Vista. Microsoft recommends a Windows Server based solution in all of these situations.

I don’t mind product validation but at the same time I don’t know for sure what information this PC is leaking back to the mother ship? The best way for people to gain control back from the monopolies and force businesses to improve is through keeping our money at home. Competition is key in order for capitalism to prosper. Here we have MS making the software, Dell and a few others doing hardware and MAC doing iPODs. How can Linux be expected to flourish when MS literally pays millions to deface Linux?

Well I will stop here even though there is more to this picture. With luck perhaps a few of you will reply to this thread and try to discuss your concerns, fears, etc. regarding what I stated before has to be one of the most freedom bashing products ever unleashed in our time!

PAX
February 15, 2007 7:54:58 PM

Man, what a tirade! I think you need to take a chill pill dude. First off, this is a free market and people can do what they want. They will succeed or fail on the merits of their actions/inactions or in Bills case, their products. Obviously, MS got something going.

Second, Apple isn’t much better. Apple controls everything and will chase you into court if you even ‘think’ about infringing on one of their patents/copyrights. Apple innovates, controls production and OKs all segments of its market share. Imagine if MS, Dell, HP and Gateway were all the same company and if anyone else wanted to make a PC it would first have to go through MS? Kinda stupid if you ask me.

And lastly, Bill will do more for the world than you could possibly do in 10,000 of your lifetimes. NO JOKING! He will have spent, upon his death, approximately 15 billion dollars of his net worth on helping out others. Look into it, you’ll be amazed how many US school programs MS is giving to.

You know, spending more than an industrialized countries total GNP on charity is something you will never match and it should humble you just a little. MS is not the devil, if it was then half of the companies in the US would be too. It’s the nature of capitalism dude.

Edit: Oh, yea... Go buy Linux or OSX then... be over with it already!
February 15, 2007 8:11:32 PM

Quote:
Imagine if MS, Dell, HP and Gateway were all the same company and if anyone else wanted to make a PC it would first have to go through MS? Kinda stupid if you ask me.
They are silly man this is how WHQL works. You pay to be part of the bigger picture or your OUT. Who are these guys hanging with Steve B??


Quote:
Man, what a tirade! I think you need to take a chill pill dude. First off, this is a free market and people can do what they want. They will succeed or fail on the merits of their actions/inactions or in Bills case, their products. Obviously, MS got something going.

Second, Apple isn’t much better. Apple controls everything and will chase you into court if you even ‘think’ about infringing on one of their patents/copyrights. Apple innovates, controls production and OKs all segments of its market share. Imagine if MS, Dell, HP and Gateway were all the same company and if anyone else wanted to make a PC it would first have to go through MS? Kinda stupid if you ask me.

And lastly, Bill will do more for the world than you could possibly do in 10,000 of your lifetimes. NO JOKING! He will have spent, upon his death, approximately 15 billion dollars of his net worth on helping out others. Look into it, you’ll be amazed how many US school programs MS is giving to.

You know, spending more than an industrialized countries total GNP on charity is something you will never match and it should humble you just a little. MS is not the devil, if it was then half of the companies in the US would be too. It’s the nature of capitalism dude.

Edit: Oh, yea... Go buy Linux or OSX then... be over with it already!

Wow I have to keep that in mind! Please do me a fav if you don't mind and tell me how you feel about being a SPIDER MONKEY? Also since you decided to read my post why not comment on the points? I made a point about party line being the way and your reply skips over reality and goes on to point out about all of the GOOD that BILL does.
Here is another Bill Gates quote while you ponder your inner monkey...
"It's been shown that most people download viruses unwittingly - they don't know they're doing it until it's too late. That's what I mean here. We're talking about protecting the consumer."
Related resources
February 15, 2007 8:46:36 PM

Nice post… everyone should read it and then do some research on their own to verify what you said is correct. Most will deny what is happening as they like their licensed copy of Vista.

Pro-Vista users need to realize what M$ is doing to the PC and with our right of fair use. I have already moved over to Linux and recommend others to due the same. If Vista does make it on 90% world’s computers, Vista 2 may just put an end of free computing altogether IMO.


SUSE
ubuntu
OS X
ReactOS
BAD VISTA
February 16, 2007 5:53:26 AM

Option A. Spend about the same amount you would when you buy a new computer and let everyone do everything for you for having things work.
Option B. Get a degree in Computer Engineering, because you know you'll have to in order to use Linux.

Vista isn't that bad. It has it's quirks, but I have to agree with BaronMatrix, this operating system is awesome.

And no, I didn't read the long post by Magnum. Got to get some sleep before I go to work.
February 16, 2007 6:36:22 AM

Quote:
Please understand that I do condone file sharing, mass downloading, cracking, reverse engineering torrents, screeners, porno and all the rest. There is no crime since there is no money that I make.


I'm sorry to point this out again, but you're just another software / music / movie pirate throwing his toys out of the pram because his cracked illegal software isn't going to work on Vista.

I think I'll come and steal your car, and your PC. Its ok though - it isn't a crime as I don't plan to make any money from it.
February 16, 2007 9:45:38 AM

You do realize you can run off-network? Our testbed runs everything off network for 1 year or more, including Vista (from Beta to Production). If you're worried about your freedoms, why in blazes are you using the INet? The governments have been tracking you long before the manufacturers ever thought about it - I personally know it goes back prior to 1990 with bb sites. Even if the world stopped using all MS products today, you would still be tracked and there is really nothing you can do about it even if you bitch to high heaven because you are using a public gateway. When I contracted to an ISP, they were tracking Mac, Linux, OS2, mainframe/midrange user and MS connections - both encrypted and unencrypted. That is the toll for using the road - you want to stop paying, then stop using. Same for DRM - I have no issues because I refuse to use the bad tech that is employed by HDDVD and Blue Ray. I have had no issues with any of my other media. As for Office, there are a dozen free varities to use instead. If you just want to whine, find a forum for that - there are enough "anti-" boards out there for people to vent on.
February 16, 2007 12:40:19 PM

Er - I'm not worried, and the only whining I'm doing is at the whiners...
February 16, 2007 1:03:47 PM

Quote:
Er - I'm not worried, and the only whining I'm doing is at the whiners...

Sorry, early morning and hit reply on wrong button without thinking. Need more caffeine, please... :) 
February 16, 2007 1:26:14 PM

Quote:
Need more caffeine, please... :) 


Amen to that :) 
February 16, 2007 3:00:59 PM

Quote:
Option A. Spend about the same amount you would when you buy a new computer and let everyone do everything for you for having things work.
Option B. Get a degree in Computer Engineering, because you know you'll have to in order to use Linux.

Vista isn't that bad. It has it's quirks, but I have to agree with BaronMatrix, this operating system is awesome.

And no, I didn't read the long post by Magnum. Got to get some sleep before I go to work.

Why comment on a post you didn't read :?:

Quote:
Please understand that I do condone file sharing, mass downloading, cracking, reverse engineering torrents, screeners, porno and all the rest. There is no crime since there is no money that I make.


I'm sorry to point this out again, but you're just another software / music / movie pirate throwing his toys out of the pram because his cracked illegal software isn't going to work on Vista.

I think I'll come and steal your car, and your PC. Its ok though - it isn't a crime as I don't plan to make any money from it.
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr so you say I'm just a pirate? Shiver me timbers....
Not! 1st off pirates loot for personal gain and that gain is in the form of gold, gewels, skins, cash, etc. As far as infringment goes (since we know pirates are those that sell knock-off versions of products) I would have to again recieve money for said product. The bottom line is that while I condone downloading and P2P there is not much digital stuff that intrests me. I mentioned the Party-Line and you seem to reflect the verbal realization of that party. Who knows what files you have?
Quote:
You do realize you can run off-network? Our testbed runs everything off network for 1 year or more, including Vista (from Beta to Production). If you're worried about your freedoms, why in blazes are you using the INet? The governments have been tracking you long before the manufacturers ever thought about it - I personally knows it goes back prior to 1990 with bb sites. Even if the world stopped using all MS products today, you would still be tracked and there is really nothing you can do about it even if you bitch to high heaven because you are using a public gateway. When I contracted to an ISP, they were tracking Mac, Linux, OS2, mainframe/midrange user and MS connections - both encrypted and unencrypted. That is the toll for using the road - you want to stop paying, then stop using. Same for DRM - I have no issues because I refuse to use the bad tech that is employed by HDDVD and Blue Ray. I have had no issues with any of my other media. As for Office, there are a dozen free varities to use instead. If you just want to whine, find a forum for that - there are enough "anti-" boards out there for people to vent on.

This was a great reply till the last part. Here I don't whine or even vent. I simply stated that the members here are ACUs (me too) and the Grand High Exalted PoBaa considers your brain like that of a SPIDER MONKEY (mine too). He can have as much or as little money as he can but making the Ultimate purchase requires more than money. You can guess what that other thing is! Wow I had no idea that my ISP by law can do a stately inspection on all of the packets going in and leaving my PC. I had no idea that the PROVIDERS can plug CARNAVORE into all of the ISPs to harvest IPs and KEYWORDS. I'm pretty sure that everyone knows these things? If not well the heads up is the GOV does whatever it wants now!

I never mentioned the ISPs/GOV. I talked about MS and Bill gates then mentioned the PMP. Did you read the mostly positive Office review? There are never enough views in opposition to a MONOPOLY that has assumed the RIGHT to invade my privacy, home, space, data, papers, etc. There are never enough views in opposition to products that offer the consumer little more then what they already had for nearly twice the price! To sum you up in a bow, you toe the 'Party Line' while I do not!

Let us consider your reply: You state things that little hackers and grandmothers know. It is along the lines of stating the world is round after looking at it from space. Your tone changes more and you could simply move to another thread but instead you imply that if I don't want to pay the toll I should get off the bridge. You then move from sneak attack mode to frontal assault with, "If you just want to whine, find a forum for that - there are enough "anti-" boards out there for people to vent on." I started a thread that you could have skipped but instead you want to toe the Party-Line and to that I say "DON'T TREAD ON ME!" I have the right to post here just like you. I didn't attack you at all, heck I never mentioned you. You are a SNIPE, a parasite thinking that you can have it both ways. You can run on or off NET!

My views are counter to yours so then that entitles you to ask that ME and MY views get out of your forum? You are not even a blip on my horizon with your Fascistic outlook. You are transparent and foolish. Always remember and never forget that a fool and his money are soon parted!

Vista could run great or poorly and as it happens I commented on just that and said that Vista runs pretty good on my system. The ramifications of supporting a known monopoly with your money are the issues! I will not be chased away by you and if you wish to challenge the assertion that Big Bill made (that your mind is that of a SPIDER MONKEY) that is great. It would appear that BG is correct though since his comment does not upset you nor do you challenge it.

You said that HD was 'Bad Tech' and you refuse to use it. So when you look at a DVD on an old set side by side with a HD set with the HD version of the same movie the HD picture looks so much worse due to the?????? If your pointing out that the encryption scheme (PMP/AACS) forces you to buy all new compliant hardware for your PC or that the encryption scheme (AACS) forces you to buy an expensive HDTV and HDDVD/B-Ray player and w/ all things factored you will not buy said devices since you lack the funds or don't want to for another reason of your thinking then it is bad due to the encryption? There has to be a reason it is Bad Tech. 1) Hardware 2) Protection 3) Both.... you don't elaborate but then you move on to the, "If you just want to whine..." part.

My assertion is that AACS has driven up the cost of PCs PERIOD. AACS is the reason being pitched that MS now charges nearly double for Windows. AACS has been defeated but we all still have to pay for it. Your leader BG went on the record like SJ did and commented that DRM is mostly a bad idea and then went ahead and used it anyway. AACS, DRM, PMP, TPM, etc. are being thrust into my day (and yours) so we the consumers need to debate the ramifications of this mess. Is Vista so much better then XP that is should cost $400.00 retail? DX10 is Vista only, so when the new games come out we are being forced to go to Vista, are we not?
February 16, 2007 3:13:52 PM

Quote:
My assertion is that AACS has driven up the cost of PCs PERIOD. AACS is the reason being pitched that MS now charges nearly double for Windows.


AACS has nothing to do with Windows and MS, and nothing to do with PCs. It's on-disc copy protection. Perhaps you mean HDCP instead? Although, again, that has nothing to do with Windows/MS and nothing to do with PCs. It's a hardware based solution found on most players and modern TVs as well. It's not an MS created DRM.

Sure, if you want to play HDCP protected movies, you'll need HDCP equipment (well, technically you can play them anyway, just with a 480p image). But how does MS profit from that? How does MS profit from your purchase of an HDCP compatible monitor and GPU? Please explain this to me.
February 16, 2007 3:58:32 PM

I agree with you and Forbes Magazine current issue has a less-then stellar review of Dim Vista
February 16, 2007 4:22:41 PM

Quote:
My assertion is that AACS has driven up the cost of PCs PERIOD. AACS is the reason being pitched that MS now charges nearly double for Windows.


AACS has nothing to do with Windows and MS, and nothing to do with PCs. It's on-disc copy protection. Perhaps you mean HDCP instead? Although, again, that has nothing to do with Windows/MS and nothing to do with PCs. It's a hardware based solution found on most players and modern TVs as well. It's not an MS created DRM.

Sure, if you want to play HDCP protected movies, you'll need HDCP equipment (well, technically you can play them anyway, just with a 480p image). But how does MS profit from that? How does MS profit from your purchase of an HDCP compatible monitor and GPU? Please explain this to me.
ROFLOL... That is beyond funny. Observe please....

Hardware must now be part of the PMP (protected media path) this path is comprised of the audio and video and everything related. All drivers must be digitally signed by WHQL. Sony PS3 & X Box 360 are both HD and both HDDVD and B-Ray are AACS protected. On a PC the (example) HDDVD ROM is encrypted and also contains the keys for decryption (media must be playable). The hardware also contains a device key. Software decryptors like Power DVD are also assigned keys. Keys can be blacklisted to prevent producing copies...

The computer contains memory and it is here that the keys have been sniffed as well as from the USB port. It turns out that the operating system plays a part in the operation of any PC (hence the name). The Vista kernel manages all PMP and encryption. All devices must contain valid KEYS (digital signatures) and the totality is that every system winds up with a unique PID. These PIDs (KEY) can be pulled, changed etc. by MS on the fly. Should you load encrypted content (HDDVD) the kernel authorizes the content (opens the PMP) as a result you get to see or hear your HD media.

MS has made a media oriented OS this time around. It is AACS compliant and is part of AACS. Vista goes deeper yet since it has DRM (digital rights management). The WHQL prevents you from using hardware decryption that is not AACS approved. I make a device that plugs into USB then breaks AACS but MS must authorize all PMP related drivers (non PMP too). Look at the subject title and see for yourself. I posted a picture of Steve B chilling w/ some homies. Those homies al have the "KEY" so to speak. The Biggies are all represented...

They are all committed to MAKING AS MUCH MONEY AS POSSIBLE. They are all together even the Sony guy. This is what happens when there is a MONOPOLY. The smaller gangs all join up and they arrange everything so they all reap reward. VISTA, HARDWARE & SOFTWARE that are part of the PMP all need digital keys. The new DX10 video cards have to have a CHIP that has KEYS for HD MEDIA. It is a fact. The hardware must face the OS since otherwise you would be able to skip the OS. The software (Like Power DVD) has to work w/ the OS or be excluded.

This is forcing HD Media down your throat under the blanket of DX10. Soon the price of HDDVD ROMs will fall ($500.00 at this time) and they will phase out all standard DVDs (over time). Go to Comp USA and see how many XP systems there are?? Ding....NONE

The Vista kernel is all about encryption and protecting the PMP and all of these together make up the PMP on a computer. Vista was delayed because of problems relating to HDDVD and B Ray (that is from an inside tip). Using an XP PC, a XBOX 360 HDDVD ROM, a valid HDDVD movie and WIN DVD HD someone was able to find the necessary keys to decrypt the HDDVD to his/her HD. Folks MS requires $400.00 to get the cream of the crop OS and part of the reason it took 5 years and billions of bucks is the faulty notion that HD Media cannot be legally copied. The DMCA says that you can make a back-up copy and then says that you can’t break encryption…..
It turns out that MS will make billions due to HD and Vista @ $400.00 is part of those BILLIONS. Computers are going full circle in a way… Way way back they were super expensive then over time they became cheaper and better. This was due to competition and things were better since there were standards. Now PCs are about to get expensive again since HD is part of the bottom line.
PAX
February 16, 2007 5:21:21 PM

Ignoring the fact that half of your post had absolutely nothing to do with what I asked:

Quote:

They are all committed to MAKING AS MUCH MONEY AS POSSIBLE.


Commercial company in money making shocker. In other news, water is wet, the sky is blue.


Quote:
the faulty notion that HD Media cannot be legally copied. The DMCA says that you can make a back-up copy and then says that you can’t break encryption…..


Dear oh dear..where to start? The specification for HD-DVD allows you to have one copy of the media stored on the HDD (known as Managed Copy). Cannot be legally copied? Copying breaks encryption? Faulty notion? Admittedly, this actual specification is not yet in effect, but then, neither is HDCP or the ICT flags, so yes. Here's a press release from MS's very own site. Just in case you're worried your PC will explode from DRM overload by visiting MS's site:

Quote:
Managed Copy: A first for DVDs. Managed Copy is a guaranteed feature within HD DVD that gives consumers the freedom to make copies of their discs to a hard drive or home server, including Media Center PCs using Intel Viiv technology, and enjoy them in every room of the house over their home networks. HD DVD discs also will allow copies of the movie to be played on portable devices.



Quote:
It turns out that MS will make billions due to HD and Vista @ $400.00 is part of those BILLIONS. Computers are going full circle in a way… Way way back they were super expensive then over time they became cheaper and better. This was due to competition and things were better since there were standards. Now PCs are about to get expensive again since HD is part of the bottom line.


My PC is fully HDCP compliant, with a decent spec and screen that can display a 1080p picture, and it cost me about 700GPB. Fair enough, I can get parts cheap through resellers, and you, at the exact moment in time, need a fairly decent PC to benefit from HD, but by the time these technologies are the market leader (a long way off yet), such tech will be cheaper. The expense is for early adopters, and early adopters only. A DVD player costs 20 quid here, an HD-DVD player costs 500. A 32" SDTV can be had for around 150. A 32" HDTV costs anywhere between 4-1,000.

New technology in costing more shocker. This just in, yes, water is still wet. If you don't want to use the technology, don't buy it or wait until market adoption drops the price. You yourself admitted as much with "Soon the price of HDDVD ROMs will fall".

Again, I fail to see how HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will directly make MS billions. Most consumers will plump for a standalone player, despite Billy Boy's wish to have an HTPC/360 in every home. They don't make any money on the compliant hardware itself. They don't make any money on the sales of HD-DVD or Blu-Ray.

Sure, they'll make some money out of it, via the avenues of HTPCs and home theatre geeks, but not billions.

Incidentally, the exact same content protection systems of AACS and HDCP are appearing in the next MacOS release. Will we see a similar outburst against them in the near future?
February 16, 2007 7:02:31 PM

Quote:
Ignoring the fact that half of your post had absolutely nothing to do with what I asked:


They are all committed to MAKING AS MUCH MONEY AS POSSIBLE.


Commercial company in money making shocker. In other news, water is wet, the sky is blue.


Quote:
the faulty notion that HD Media cannot be legally copied. The DMCA says that you can make a back-up copy and then says that you can’t break encryption…..


Dear oh dear..where to start? The specification for HD-DVD allows you to have one copy of the media stored on the HDD (known as Managed Copy). Cannot be legally copied? Copying breaks encryption? Faulty notion? Admittedly, this actual specification is not yet in effect, but then, neither is HDCP or the ICT flags, so yes. Here's a press release from MS's very own site. Just in case you're worried your PC will explode from DRM overload by visiting MS's site:

Quote:
Managed Copy: A first for DVDs. Managed Copy is a guaranteed feature within HD DVD that gives consumers the freedom to make copies of their discs to a hard drive or home server, including Media Center PCs using Intel Viiv technology, and enjoy them in every room of the house over their home networks. HD DVD discs also will allow copies of the movie to be played on portable devices.



Quote:
It turns out that MS will make billions due to HD and Vista @ $400.00 is part of those BILLIONS. Computers are going full circle in a way… Way way back they were super expensive then over time they became cheaper and better. This was due to competition and things were better since there were standards. Now PCs are about to get expensive again since HD is part of the bottom line.


My PC is fully HDCP compliant, with a decent spec and screen that can display a 1080p picture, and it cost me about 700GPB. Fair enough, I can get parts cheap through resellers, and you, at the exact moment in time, need a fairly decent PC to benefit from HD, but by the time these technologies are the market leader (a long way off yet), such tech will be cheaper. The expense is for early adopters, and early adopters only. A DVD player costs 20 quid here, an HD-DVD player costs 500. A 32" SDTV can be had for around 150. A 32" HDTV costs anywhere between 4-1,000.

New technology in costing more shocker. This just in, yes, water is still wet. If you don't want to use the technology, don't buy it or wait until market adoption drops the price. You yourself admitted as much with "Soon the price of HDDVD ROMs will fall".

Again, I fail to see how HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will directly make MS billions. Most consumers will plump for a standalone player, despite Billy Boy's wish to have an HTPC/360 in every home. They don't make any money on the compliant hardware itself. They don't make any money on the sales of HD-DVD or Blu-Ray.

Sure, they'll make some money out of it, via the avenues of HTPCs and home theatre geeks, but not billions.

Incidentally, the exact same content protection systems of AACS and HDCP are appearing in the next MacOS release. Will we see a similar outburst against them in the near future?

Since you said, "Ignoring the fact that half of your post had absolutely nothing to do with what I asked" what do I get out of an interweb discussion w/ you? Do I get more of your insulting tone? Do I get to rehash things only to read more insulting replies? Since you used the word "IGNORING" I may chose to deny the confrontation you require?

If you do not understand the damage a monopoly causes and how its operation over time weakens society as a whole then I see no point in talking to you. To you this is a pissing contest but I'm not playing. If you think MS is a decent, honest, wholesome business that is good for me, you, the kids and flowers spring out of the ground where Bill Gates walks then that is what you think. If you choose to piss away $400.00 for Vista that is your choice.

Microsoft is a MONOPOLY and that is not the same as a everyday COMMERCIAL company. Let's start with what you said, "Commercial company in money making shocker. In other news, water is wet, the sky is blue. M$ happens to be a CORPORATION and that is not the same as a COMPANY. MS has share holders etc. and a charter. Once a CORPORATION grows to the exclusion of all others the government by law must pull the charter since that CORPORATION is then considered a MONOPOLY.

In short how does MS make BILLIONS by leaping on HD?? Don't forget that you asked this...

MS invested several BILLION dollars in VISTA so they claim. This they would not do if they were not expecting a good to great return. This fits in w/ corporate law. Since MS is a GLOBAL MONOPOLY they can squeeze all consumers who are now dependent on the MONOPLY based products. MS wins no matter how you slice it. They win since the consumers are SHEEP who pay the money and have no place to go since the MONOPOLY already eliminated all true competition. If you want a media center PC then you cannot use LINUX. Let me repeat that. If you want a media center PC then you cannot use LINUX. This is because AACS is not open source otherwise you could craft a software decrypter that allows HDDVDs to be played, copied, decrypted etc. Hence MS is the only GAME in all walks of MEDIA and from now till infinity.

Your reply is most crafty yet spot on wrong... AACS protects HDDVD & B-Ray. It is against the law to crack, reverse engineer or otherwise extract protected content without permission from AACS. The DMCA states that you can make a copy but in fact AACS prevents making a copy hence eliminates piracy. AACS has not been cracked but the KEYS that allow playback have been found in PC RAM by those that are crafty and these keys allow the HD content past the PMP. The PMP etc are part of the OS when we consider that the PC is NOT a SET TOP BOX then we must consider SOFTWARE KEYS.

MAC will not be excluded since most of the HD content we watch is made and edited on MACs. I think you mentioned MAC if not once but possibly twice? Did you know one of the largest stock holders in Apple is Bill Gates? LOL

HDCP stands for High Definition Content Protection and this is done on a PC by using
1) DRM stands for Digital Rights Management that is part of the OS and can be considered soft sided.
The next part is the actual encryption and decryption and that is done using
2) AACS stands for Advanced Access Content System This is both hard and soft since it requires a special player device.
2) WHQL= prevents kernel access by non approved devices and non approved virtual devices
All of these are considered the PMP or protected media pathway.
Open source is LOCKED out and this adds to the MS MONOPOLY not to mention that you have to seek approval for your hard or soft (emulation) device from MS if you want to work on an MS computer. This prevents you (the user/owner) from choosing to use a component that MS has not allowed. This prevents you from using Linux or making your own soft device since it requires DIGITAL KEYS.
MS charges money for each WHQL they allow, MS charges for each retail Vista sold, MS makes money from each Dell, Gateway, HP, Sony, etc. device sold with their OS/soft package. MS makes money all over the place. MS excludes more and more Linux and SAMBA devices (I got this one first hand). MS charges for their retail support. MS Zune players work great with Vista but Linux based players don’t do as well.

[Ignore mode on]
February 16, 2007 7:42:23 PM

Quote:
They don't make any money on the compliant hardware itself. They don't make any money on the sales of HD-DVD or Blu-Ray.


Do you have any facts to suggest that M$ is not going to charge for certificates?
February 16, 2007 10:22:55 PM

When I say "ignoring the fact that half of your post had absolutely nothing to do with what I asked", strangely enough I mean you're largely talking about stuff that has no relevance what I asked, not "I am ignoring you". I'll briefly mention a couple more points though.

Managed Copy is part of the specification of AACS. So when you are saying AACS prevents making a copy, you are wrong. When Managed Copy is finalised, you will be able to quite happily make a copy of your media. It says so right there in the article I linked to, and the section of text I quoted. It says so right here in the official specifications for AACS direct from their website.

Quote:
Content protected by AACS includes an offer for the consumer to make at least one additional copy of that
content after receiving appropriate authorization. That copy can be up to a full resolution “bit for bit” copy of
the original content and can also include other offers where only certain portions of the original content is
included in the copy. With some exceptions, all content protected by AACS includes this offer.


And you honestly believe that Bill Gates is one of the main stockholders of Apple? How come he's never at any of their stockholder meetings then? How come he doesn't have a say in what happens to the company? That's got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.
February 16, 2007 11:18:48 PM

Quote:
When I say "ignoring the fact that half of your post had absolutely nothing to do with what I asked", strangely enough I mean you're largely talking about stuff that has no relevance what I asked, not "I am ignoring you". I'll briefly mention a couple more points though.

Managed Copy is part of the specification of AACS. So when you are saying AACS prevents making a copy, you are wrong. When Managed Copy is finalised, you will be able to quite happily make a copy of your media. It says so right there in the article I linked to, and the section of text I quoted. It says so right here in the official specifications for AACS direct from their website.

Content protected by AACS includes an offer for the consumer to make at least one additional copy of that
content after receiving appropriate authorization. That copy can be up to a full resolution “bit for bit” copy of
the original content and can also include other offers where only certain portions of the original content is
included in the copy. With some exceptions, all content protected by AACS includes this offer.


And you honestly believe that Bill Gates is one of the main stockholders of Apple? How come he's never at any of their stockholder meetings then? How come he doesn't have a say in what happens to the company? That's got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.
On August 7, 1997 the computer world was stunned by the news that Bill Gates had infused new life into Apple Computer Corporation by agreeing to a $150 million non-voting investment in the troubled company. A fascinating aspect of the story was the fact that Steve Jobs, one of the original co-founders of Apple had asked Gates for the favor. Jobs left Apple in 1985, and was recently brought back to help reorganize the company. The announcement was made at the Macworld trade show in Boston, amid boos from Apple loyalists who have been conditioned over the years to consider Microsoft's co-founder, Bill Gates, their enemy.


Conversing with you is a complete waste of my time. I rather let you dig your own grave since you are pretty good at it :)  Every iPOD sold adds another hat to Malinda's Gates hat collection. That is not the only time by the way.

Now back to the waste of time that is posting w/ you!

AACS is expensive COPY PROTECTION that for the moment has failed but you will pay for it and I will make copies. If you read anything that says otherwise that is called PROPAGANDA. I will not re-hash. It is easy to go back over what I said.
February 17, 2007 2:21:39 AM

Crusade anyone? I'm genuinely tired of having to read these threads.
February 17, 2007 2:51:20 AM

Quote:
Crusade anyone? I'm genuinely tired of having to read these threads.

Have to read?? How is that>>? Why did you read it? Why then reply? PAX
February 17, 2007 4:36:11 AM

I find these threads rather entertaining. Why? Because its a few people who are having a hissy because they are upset that Microsoft is starting to look for ways to prevent people from stealing media. Thats it! OMG, Microsoft is out to end the world because I cant steal my warez anymore! Ill actually have to buy movies, songs, and software now! Boohoo. So they nit pick and look for every possible thing wrong with Vista and make a huge deal of it. ZOMG, Vista uses 700 megs of ram idle (caching programs ftw).

These threads are interesting, like reading how the world is going to end, like how George Bush is friends with Osama Bin Laden, how the CIA killed JFK, etc etc.
February 17, 2007 8:20:38 AM

Quote:
I find these threads rather entertaining. Why? Because its a few people who are having a hissy because they are upset that Microsoft is starting to look for ways to prevent people from stealing media. Thats it! OMG, Microsoft is out to end the world because I cant steal my warez anymore! Ill actually have to buy movies, songs, and software now! Boohoo. So they nit pick and look for every possible thing wrong with Vista and make a huge deal of it. ZOMG, Vista uses 700 megs of ram idle (caching programs ftw).

These threads are interesting, like reading how the world is going to end, like how George Bush is friends with Osama Bin Laden, how the CIA killed JFK, etc etc.


Indeed. It's interesting how links showing outright that people are wrong are instantly labelled as propoganda. Oh well. I'll go back to enjoying my legal high-quality copies whilst Alpha watches his compressed trojan infested recodes (no doubt watching them on Windows as well).
February 17, 2007 10:56:24 AM

Quote:
I find these threads rather entertaining. Why? Because its a few people who are having a hissy because they are upset that Microsoft is starting to look for ways to prevent people from stealing media. Thats it! OMG, Microsoft is out to end the world because I cant steal my warez anymore! Ill actually have to buy movies, songs, and software now! Boohoo. So they nit pick and look for every possible thing wrong with Vista and make a huge deal of it. ZOMG, Vista uses 700 megs of ram idle (caching programs ftw).

These threads are interesting, like reading how the world is going to end, like how George Bush is friends with Osama Bin Laden, how the CIA killed JFK, etc etc.


Indeed. It's interesting how links showing outright that people are wrong are instantly labelled as propoganda. Oh well. I'll go back to enjoying my legal high-quality copies whilst Alpha watches his compressed trojan infested recodes (no doubt watching them on Windows as well).

Both of you totally miss the point.
February 17, 2007 1:19:11 PM

The point of what? That it's part of the actual specification of AACS that permits a managed copy to be created? It says so right there in all the links I've provided.

But of course, they're just blatant propoganda isn't it? It's not like..say..going against official specification could lead to lawsuits could it?

Oh..wait..it could. Hmm.
February 17, 2007 2:17:22 PM

[ignore Gremmi mode off]
Quote:
And you honestly believe that Bill Gates is one of the main stockholders of Apple? How come he's never at any of their stockholder meetings then? How come he doesn't have a say in what happens to the company? That's got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.

On August 7, 1997 the computer world was stunned by the news that Bill Gates had infused new life into Apple Computer Corporation by agreeing to a $150 million non-voting investment in the troubled company. A fascinating aspect of the story was the fact that Steve Jobs, one of the original co-founders of Apple had asked Gates for the favor. Jobs left Apple in 1985, and was recently brought back to help reorganize the company. The announcement was made at the Macworld trade show in Boston, amid boos from Apple loyalists who have been conditioned over the years to consider Microsoft's co-founder, Bill Gates, their enemy.

:idea:
Read what you said there then read what the reporter said and then read what you said and then read what the reporter said...
[/ignore Gremmi mode on]
Quote:
I find these threads rather entertaining. Why? Because its a few people who are having a hissy because they are upset that Microsoft is starting to look for ways to prevent people from stealing media. Thats it! OMG, Microsoft is out to end the world because I cant steal my warez anymore! Ill actually have to buy movies, songs, and software now! Boohoo. So they nit pick and look for every possible thing wrong with Vista and make a huge deal of it. ZOMG, Vista uses 700 megs of ram idle (caching programs ftw).

These threads are interesting, like reading how the world is going to end, like how George Bush is friends with Osama Bin Laden, how the CIA killed JFK, etc etc.
These replies are fun to read. Even though Jayrm14 was poking fun at me he made an excellent point. I attempted to keep the focus on the fact that Bill Gates considers the ACU's mind to be like a 'SPIDER MONKEY' he sees the relationship with another set of current events. As it happens MS is involved in several ways w/ the war effort. The latest polls show that more than 70% of Americans want us out of IRAQ. It also happens that W's latest popularity poll is in the low 30ies. So 30% like Bush and 70% want out of IRAQ.

Some people see the connection between Big Business and Bush. Bill Gates was in court showing us how Internet Explorer could be separated from Windows at about the same time Bush was appointing Alberto Gonzales as the new Attorney General. MS was found to be a MONOPOLY and was to be split... then like magic that never happened. Bill Gates was to retire (he didn't) and spend his days as the Chief Software Architect. Since up is now down and black is now white it isn't that shocking to find out that Bill Gates owns a large slice of the Apple and at the same time is the CEO of MS.

Those members that say, "Go to Linux already!" Hit the nail on the head. I use every OS and till Vista I didn't care what MS did. World domination has little to do with my view of MS (as dim as that is). Windows is 'closed source' while Linux is 'open source' and my issues with MS are related to the fact that it is STILL a MONOPOLY. MS didn't invent DirectX, they adapted it from Sun. Since MS has partners (here is a short list) Warner Bros. Sony, Dell, Intel, AMD, Nvidia, etc. Linux can't have DirectX since MS owns it. So most applications and games that expect DX can't run on Linux.

Now I can't even choose an operating system since I love PC games. DX10 based video cards will not function the same way in Linux since there is no DX in Linux.
Can you guess where I'm going w/ this?
Gremmi posted a link to AACSLA and at the very top it says this...
"This document is subject to change under applicable license provisions.
Copyright © 2005-2006 by Intel Corporation, International Business Machines Corporation, Matsushita Electric
Industrial Co., Ltd., Microsoft Corporation, Sony Corporation, Toshiba Corporation, The Walt Disney
Company, and Warner Bros. Third-party brands and names are the property of their respective owners."

Let’s look at that again.....

"This document is subject to change under applicable license provisions.
Copyright © 2005-2006 by Intel Corporation, International Business Machines Corporation, Matsushita Electric
Industrial Co., Ltd., Microsoft Corporation, Sony Corporation, Toshiba Corporation, The Walt Disney
Company, and Warner Bros. Third-party brands and names are the property of their respective owners."

Intel is listed first since ‘I’ comes before ‘M’ in the alphabet. Look at the MONOPOLY that is listed 4th, gosh guys MS is an OWNER of AACS but according to GREMI AACS has nothing to do with MS????? MS is an owner of AACS and so for each and every HDDVD and B-Ray disc sold MS gets a piece of the PIE.
According to Gremmi I can make 1 to 1 backups of my HDDVDs and B-Rays but there is no tool available and the files are encrypted. According to Gremmi , Bill gates isn’t a stock holder in Apple and yet he threw down to help out his buddy Steve…
The sad part is even though most of you guys are getting it up the pooper from MS only a few are offended by being compared to spider monkeys. Rather than hearing the truth (as the truth sometimes hurts) you rather talk about frame rates; well OK the story is that with Vista you can expect to get fragged by the guys who are still running XP. XP games faster. XP transfers files faster. XP compresses audio faster. XP compresses video faster. Heck XP is faster since it uses fewer resources. XP is more stable since it is more refined. XP has more driver support since it is older. XP has a lower cost of ownership then Vista.
February 17, 2007 2:29:27 PM

Quote:
The point of what? That it's part of the actual specification of AACS that permits a managed copy to be created? It says so right there in all the links I've provided.

But of course, they're just blatant propoganda isn't it? It's not like..say..going against official specification could lead to lawsuits could it?

Oh..wait..it could. Hmm.
MS is one of the OWNERS of AACS LA (they wrote most of the code and Intel did key chips) they can say anything they want since they own it all. I suppose there is no other way to say this to you Gremmi so here it goes...

You have been completely wrong about several major points; you can't admit that you are in error (example Gates Apple stock). You linked to an AACS LA paper and as it turns out Bill Gates took MS to Hollywood and left you and your friends here with a $400.00 nightmare.....
February 17, 2007 3:54:47 PM

Quote:
Crusade anyone? I'm genuinely tired of having to read these threads.

Have to read?? How is that>>? Why did you read it? Why then reply? PAXI read them because often times threads like these cause the most arguments and in order to keep the order, I read these thread to make sure none of the participants get vulgar or abusive. When they do, a quick citation, and the moderators will deal accordingly.
February 17, 2007 4:39:55 PM

Quote:
Crusade anyone? I'm genuinely tired of having to read these threads.

Have to read?? How is that>>? Why did you read it? Why then reply? PAXI read them because often times threads like these cause the most arguments and in order to keep the order, I read these thread to make sure none of the participants get vulgar or abusive. When they do, a quick citation, and the moderators will deal accordingly.
I see that you have 5667 posts here but you don't seem to be a moderator? You say "threads like this" and I suppose that you are implying that since opinions are involved people will argue since that is one of the things humans do? I mean to say that if you are not an owner, moderator or administrator here then you must be just another member like me only with an excessive amount of posts, then why is it that you HAVE TO READ all of the posts? So should you notice something that pisses you off then you tattle to the moderators? Is that what it is? Are you watching this thread closely 8O intently to see if I cross the line? I mean to say that if you're tired of reading posts why is it that you had to post that in this thread when that would be better in the open or general thread? I suppose in a nice way I'm suggesting that when you are tired you should rest? Forgive me if I'm wrong but I have the view that your 1st reply on this thread was sort of negative and completely off topic since asking members to a Crusade has nothing to do with Vista? You were not forced to read this thread yet found it necessary to let everyone know that your view of this thread is at best DIM by the innuendo contained in, "I'm genuinely tired of having to read these threads." So I guess my question to you is are you tired of reading threads in general or are you tired of this particular thread. If I were to have to guess, I would say that any time someone attempts to talk about the monopoly stronghold that is MS there are many members that will jump up to defend MS and I think when you say "these threads" that to me implies that you are one of those defenders?

I could have it all wrong and if that is the case all I can do is say I'm sorry for the mix up. I'm sure that someone that posts on an internet message board over 5000 times in the same place who is not a moderator knows better than me that you can't believe everything you read. :D 
February 17, 2007 7:50:44 PM

When you get to this level, it becomes a responsibility to help keep the threads clean. Moderators will respond without prompting in major cases, but for the most part, moderation here is quite passive. They mainly respond to prompts and reports from forum members.

And another thing. Don't ever twist my words around. I speak without double meaning and what I say, I say precisely. Read what you see, not what you think. When I say I don't want discussion on an issue, then you can tell me so. Until then, what I say is what I say.

That all being said, I don't really give a damn to be truthful. I know the ins and outs of Vista and how to get around most of the copy protection schemes. My point is that a good 70% of threads going up has nothing to do with helping people to use Vista, or offering assistance of a discernible manner. They are all these Crusade threads. You don't like Vista? Fine. You can talk about it all you want. Do it in the threads that are already established. Look around and you'll be sure to find them (on the first page).

I've said my piece, and I'll say no more. I don't mean to insult anyone, but if anyone does feel insulted, frankly I'm not apologizing.
February 17, 2007 11:37:46 PM

Quote:
When you get to this level, it becomes a responsibility to help keep the threads clean. Moderators will respond without prompting in major cases, but for the most part, moderation here is quite passive. They mainly respond to prompts and reports from forum members.

And another thing. Don't ever twist my words around. I speak without double meaning and what I say, I say precisely. Read what you see, not what you think. When I say I don't want discussion on an issue, then you can tell me so. Until then, what I say is what I say.

That all being said, I don't really give a damn to be truthful. I know the ins and outs of Vista and how to get around most of the copy protection schemes. My point is that a good 70% of threads going up has nothing to do with helping people to use Vista, or offering assistance of a discernible manner. They are all these Crusade threads. You don't like Vista? Fine. You can talk about it all you want. Do it in the threads that are already established. Look around and you'll be sure to find them (on the first page).

I've said my piece, and I'll say no more. I don't mean to insult anyone, but if anyone does feel insulted, frankly I'm not apologizing.


Alpha has added time and research to educated posters like myself; you on the other hand is just attempting to push some kind of intimidation.

Vista is an OS of the new generation that may have profound effect on the PC community not to be taken lightly. All computer users need to be knowledgeable to the negative effect this new generation OS may have. Bush said it best " Money trumps everything".
February 18, 2007 12:16:00 AM

Are you calling me stupid? Please say yes.. the 24hr ban they'll drop on me will be worth it..
February 18, 2007 12:38:58 AM

Quote:
My assertion is that AACS has driven up the cost of PCs PERIOD. AACS is the reason being pitched that MS now charges nearly double for Windows.


AACS has nothing to do with Windows and MS, and nothing to do with PCs. It's on-disc copy protection. Perhaps you mean HDCP instead? Although, again, that has nothing to do with Windows/MS and nothing to do with PCs. It's a hardware based solution found on most players and modern TVs as well. It's not an MS created DRM.

Sure, if you want to play HDCP protected movies, you'll need HDCP equipment (well, technically you can play them anyway, just with a 480p image). But how does MS profit from that? How does MS profit from your purchase of an HDCP compatible monitor and GPU? Please explain this to me.
ROFLOL... That is beyond funny. Observe please....

Hardware must now be part of the PMP (protected media path) this path is comprised of the audio and video and everything related. All drivers must be digitally signed by WHQL. Sony PS3 & X Box 360 are both HD and both HDDVD and B-Ray are AACS protected. On a PC the (example) HDDVD ROM is encrypted and also contains the keys for decryption (media must be playable). The hardware also contains a device key. Software decryptors like Power DVD are also assigned keys. Keys can be blacklisted to prevent producing copies...

The computer contains memory and it is here that the keys have been sniffed as well as from the USB port. It turns out that the operating system plays a part in the operation of any PC (hence the name). The Vista kernel manages all PMP and encryption. All devices must contain valid KEYS (digital signatures) and the totality is that every system winds up with a unique PID. These PIDs (KEY) can be pulled, changed etc. by MS on the fly. Should you load encrypted content (HDDVD) the kernel authorizes the content (opens the PMP) as a result you get to see or hear your HD media.

MS has made a media oriented OS this time around. It is AACS compliant and is part of AACS. Vista goes deeper yet since it has DRM (digital rights management). The WHQL prevents you from using hardware decryption that is not AACS approved. I make a device that plugs into USB then breaks AACS but MS must authorize all PMP related drivers (non PMP too). Look at the subject title and see for yourself. I posted a picture of Steve B chilling w/ some homies. Those homies al have the "KEY" so to speak. The Biggies are all represented...

They are all committed to MAKING AS MUCH MONEY AS POSSIBLE. They are all together even the Sony guy. This is what happens when there is a MONOPOLY. The smaller gangs all join up and they arrange everything so they all reap reward. VISTA, HARDWARE & SOFTWARE that are part of the PMP all need digital keys. The new DX10 video cards have to have a CHIP that has KEYS for HD MEDIA. It is a fact. The hardware must face the OS since otherwise you would be able to skip the OS. The software (Like Power DVD) has to work w/ the OS or be excluded.

This is forcing HD Media down your throat under the blanket of DX10. Soon the price of HDDVD ROMs will fall ($500.00 at this time) and they will phase out all standard DVDs (over time). Go to Comp USA and see how many XP systems there are?? Ding....NONE

The Vista kernel is all about encryption and protecting the PMP and all of these together make up the PMP on a computer. Vista was delayed because of problems relating to HDDVD and B Ray (that is from an inside tip). Using an XP PC, a XBOX 360 HDDVD ROM, a valid HDDVD movie and WIN DVD HD someone was able to find the necessary keys to decrypt the HDDVD to his/her HD. Folks MS requires $400.00 to get the cream of the crop OS and part of the reason it took 5 years and billions of bucks is the faulty notion that HD Media cannot be legally copied. The DMCA says that you can make a back-up copy and then says that you can’t break encryption…..
It turns out that MS will make billions due to HD and Vista @ $400.00 is part of those BILLIONS. Computers are going full circle in a way… Way way back they were super expensive then over time they became cheaper and better. This was due to competition and things were better since there were standards. Now PCs are about to get expensive again since HD is part of the bottom line.
PAX


Guess what dude, if you go f*cking BUY the media youre so concerned with, it will play just fine. You wont even know the DRM is there. The only reason I can conclude that you are so anti-DRM is that you are one of the pirates that it is designed to stop. Furthermore, I hope that your mother dies of her syphillis infection and drags your worthless ass to hell with her. Good day sir.
February 18, 2007 2:27:39 AM

Quote:
Guess what dude, if you go f*cking BUY the media youre so concerned with, it will play just fine. You wont even know the DRM is there. The only reason I can conclude that you are so anti-DRM is that you are one of the pirates that it is designed to stop. Furthermore, I hope that your mother dies of her syphillis infection and drags your worthless ass to hell with her. Good day sir.

Quality reply flipflop! The syphilis thing is a great touch and adds a lot of color even though you have on too many L’s in the disease. I pretty much don’t need to reply to this since you’re over the top. If the media that you are talking about is HDDVD a download would be in the 20GB area and that is way too much to download. As I stated if you bothered to read is that backing up discs is important and I like playing my media from my NAS.
I don’t have B-Ray at this time but if I did I would rip the movies to my NAS. I don’t owe you an explanation for anything at all. I buy my movies since I can afford HDDVD, cable and the roof over the entertainment stuff. The basic point of talking/posting is that we can be informed and learn about a given topic or issue. You don’t seem to care and seem to need attention? Vista is not part of my MC nor is it likely to be anytime soon. If you want to know why simply read all of the posts between your filth and the posts you quoted.
I’m sure you will not be offended if don’t call you sir in the condescending way you said it to me.
February 18, 2007 4:41:23 AM

Quote:
Vista is an OS of the new generation that may have profound effect on the PC community not to be taken lightly. All computer users need to be knowledgeable to the negative effect this new generation OS may have. Bush said it best " Money trumps everything".


You can't tell me you didn't see this coming a parsec away? Come on. The day of DRM in OS'es was inevitable. The licensing was inevitable. The security was inevitable. Don't act as if this is a new idea.

Every time M$ comes out with something the world goes nuts. XP was slammed for its activation and we dealt with that... this is a natural extension. Do we like it always? No, but when 90% of the world uses one OS base.... you deal with it.

No other OS offers the same compatibility that Windows does.

Back to reality.....
February 18, 2007 6:03:12 AM

Quote:
Vista is an OS of the new generation that may have profound effect on the PC community not to be taken lightly. All computer users need to be knowledgeable to the negative effect this new generation OS may have. Bush said it best " Money trumps everything".


You can't tell me you didn't see this coming a parsec away? Come on. The day of DRM in OS'es was inevitable. The licensing was inevitable. The security was inevitable. Don't act as if this is a new idea.

Every time M$ comes out with something the world goes nuts. XP was slammed for its activation and we dealt with that... this is a natural extension. Do we like it always? No, but when 90% of the world uses one OS base.... you deal with it.

No other OS offers the same compatibility that Windows does.

Back to reality.....
I doubt activation is the issue. I know I mentioned this but maybe I lack the ability to convey the point. I will be brief:
1) With AACS MS is now a partner of the film industry like Disney & Warner Bros. I don't need Vista but just knowing that a portion of every HDDVD I buy goes to Gates is way too creepy.
2) All hardware must be part of WHQL or it is locked out of the box. All emulation (hardware emulators like software decryptors) must be both WHQL and AACS compliant or they are out of the box. Unless something has changed there is no "LEGAL" method of playback/decryption on any UNIX based platform except for MACs.
3) Members of Doom9 found the keys necessary for full decryption of HDDVD and B-Ray rendering this protection useless for the moment.
4) MS is forcing hardware & software makers to comply w/ their EXPANDING MONOPOLY POWER or be kicked out of the box.
5) Microsoft is heading us away from an open competitive market to a closed market that resembles fascism.
6) XP is still faster in most cases on equal systems since Vista is at heart XP but running many more services.

I can have this list go on and on. The basic reason to say this is to get as many people as possible to hold off on any MS related purchase.

The big issue is that MS says that DRM is to protect content. This is the story they are sticking to. MS and "partners" spent BILLIONS on making and implementing AACS and a PMP in both set top boxes (XBOX360, Toshiba, etc.) and PCs. This insures that the HD picture will be clean and sharp as per the promise. The goal is complete media and information dominance by assuring that any NEW PC will be a DRM packing VISTA system or a MAC (MACs moved to Intel to get with the AACS). Millions upon millions of NEW HD Ready PCs and related equipment will replace almost everything. Devices w/ embedded Windows like ZUNE and NAS devices. PVRs based around Vista Media Center PCs....the whole SHEBANG All of it controlled by MS and their PARTNERS (Sony, Dell, etc)

If MS alone is a monopoly I guess it is the New Digital Mob when MS has the film industry, music industry and the well whole world as a play thing.

I don't care about the warez since AACS was not made to prevent it (look at how quick the guys at Doom9 figured it out. AACS and DRM are there to force you into HDDVD, a new PC w/ HDMI FPM, Internet 2, mainframe computing, NWO security and expense like you can't believe. Don't ask me how much the HDDVDROM cost or the set top one.

It isn't that this is NEW! It isn't that this is good or bad! It is happening because people here are deciding that they are going to give the devil his due so to speak. Every time you buy a copy of Vista a puppy dies or a cat or honestly you allow MS to set the standards. Here Bill Gates take this inch ruler and freshen it up a bit you’re in charge of the inch standard now. A while goes buy and nothing fits together anymore except all of Bill’s products.

Ending a monopoly is as easy as stopping his income. He at least would re-launch with lower prices LOL we would all do well with actual COMPETITION. I remember there was BeOS and I hear it is back as Hiku? See my point there are no competitors for Bill and he owns a chunk of Apple so he gets a wedge of your Nano if you get that or a sliver of your Zune if you get that. Now Gates gets a tithe for every HDDVD sale or rental.

Do none (yes the one Linux guy) of you see why a monopoly is bad for in this case the entire world :?: :?:
February 18, 2007 12:49:57 PM

Quote:
Are you calling me stupid? Please say yes.. the 24hr ban they'll drop on me will be worth it..


No. I just don’t understand the lack of concern with the direction M$ has taken. Because M$ can doesn’t mean they should. Kinda like Bank America allowing illegal immigrants to obtain credit cards without a social security number read here; money, money, and more money should not be the only driving force for making decisions.

I’m taking a personal stance not to purchase another M$ product until M$ can prove they are respectable and responsible enough with the position ‘us’ consumers put them in.

You do have an interesting Blog, with a little more attention and direction you may have something.
February 18, 2007 3:08:15 PM

Excuse me? A little more focus? I don't answer to you. We are between tests right now, so as a blog, I can post what I feel like till the next batch of tests are finished. Try looking at some of the reviews that I've done before telling me I need to focus. I test for overclockers.
http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?nam...
February 18, 2007 4:23:18 PM

Quote:
Are you calling me stupid? Please say yes.. the 24hr ban they'll drop on me will be worth it..


No. I just don’t understand the lack of concern with the direction M$ has taken. Because M$ can doesn’t mean they should. Kinda like Bank America allowing illegal immigrants to obtain credit cards without a social security number read here; money, money, and more money should not be the only driving force for making decisions.

I’m taking a personal stance not to purchase another M$ product until M$ can prove they are respectable and responsible enough with the position ‘us’ consumers put them in.

You do have an interesting Blog, with a little more attention and direction you may have something.These people love Vista and cannot hear you, see you or read you. I can almost imagine one of them now reading your post and choosing what farewell to give you? I think it is a mistake to drop all MS products.

It is apparent that among those willing to respond in this thread only two are against MS. If we dig deeper I'm sure some "Know the ins and the outs" and will be able to use MS products but never buy them. The rest will opt for a predetermined experience that is regulated by the same people that make the product. Monopolies are grown and raised by the customers that support them.

I think it is more then fascinating to see the response (lack of response) of the members here to comments made by Bill Gates (the monkey thing). In their eyes Bill Gates is their cult of no personality. One could assume that people that use computers are just a 'bit' smarter than the rest (that was a pun). Apparently computers are like TV. They grasp your inner child and restrict it to the confines of the computer. Those with children see it when you ask your child to, "Turn that thing off!" Sad but true that has moved to the computer too.

I would never suggest that Bill Gates is stupid or sub human. He is at the opposite extreme and this makes him ruthless and so arrogant that he knows people will never fight him. We can talk about BG in a more political way. We can discuss all of his billions of donations and we can talk about his view on money (he wrote a few books about it). For this thread I wanted to stick with the basics.

MS became the center of computers and digital media, both, with AACS. The simple way to spank Bill would be to hold off till next year before even considering Vista (it is new, has bugs, some drivers are not available, let the pros & testers help them to patch away) and just stay with XP. My friends and I debated MS for ages on the pros and cons of "A Legal Monopoly". How many posters on this thread called me a PIRATE (arrrrrrrrrrrrrr matey)? How many posters here want to gather support and at least CURB a monopoly for a while?

With little proof of anything maybe 70 to 80% of the posters here consider me a pirate. The lion share of these are children (ages 14-23) since the post rate on this type of board is the similar to that of torrent sites. My age group sort of drops down real low since most of us work day and night so that our kids can have PS3, X-Box-360, DS Lite, PC, Cell Phone, iPOD..... Oh and be able to post on boards like this one. Here I could fight back and suggest that HDDVD is not something that transports easy over the interweb. Then someone will drag my mom into it and wish her an STD and both of us a trip to hell...

To believe in HELL is to believe in SIN. To believe in HEAVEN is to believe in VIRTUE. To believe that making a copy of a CD, DVD, HDDVD, B-Ray is a SIN then one must look at the good book to determine if that is a valid position. The good book makes no mention of protection schemes, computers, media, interweb and I am confident that my eternal soul will not burn in hell for making a copy of an HDDVD. In order to believe in HELL then one must also believe in HEAVEN. Here is where religion teaches followers to learn, forgive and turn the other cheek. To dam a man and his mother to hell is to break from virtue and commit what is known as a SIN.
One nice fellow here said that he will “Steal my car” to show me how it feels since I think that P2P is OK. Well you can try all you want to steal my car but you I’m sure don’t live near me and since I don’t drive a car you may be looking for a long time. Regardless, stealing a car is akin to stealing another man’s horse or wife. A sort of hang/lynch/shoot offence that was dealt with harshly back in the day. Today car jackings are common and should the jacker be captured they do not get death. So to prove your point that casual downloading is wrong and hurts the artist or whatever you are going to “Steal My Car” and risk your freedom to spank me?
Consider this and for me this is a reach, your 15 and you have a $50.00 allowance each week. CDs are around $15.00 each, and things you want like soda and the rest also add up. Your parents expect you to learn how to save money and learn the value of money. You choose to buy a DS Lite game for $30.00, some soda and other junk food all week for about $30.00 and now you owe your friend $10.00. So you go on the interweb and download Metallica but later the RIAA decides to make an example and goes after the IP address. That is in MOMs name and she is shut down and legally has to take the blame for your actions as a minor… where does it end?

Bill Gates says one thing then does another. You kids equate me to something I can’t be. Older people don’t listen to Green Day or whatever. That stuff to us is known as, “TURN THAT NOISE OFF!” I write and read mostly on the computer and until Bill Gates figures out how to change the alphabet these 26 letters, 9 numbers and several characters are all I need. You can put that in your crack pipe and smoke it.
Many of you don’t know this but the Bell System is back. All of the ISPs have sliced up the country (USA) and sooner than you think you high class children will be on INTERNET 2. The rest of us will be on the slow lane. By allowing MS to break from standards all of the corporations out there can use a disproportionate amount of the total available bandwidth that exists for adds. You think commercials on TV are bad wait till you see what they have planned for the good ol’ INTERWEB.
Some of you know the score and some don’t. Incrementally the ISPs, media companies, etc. are grabbing more and more power. There are more communication mergers now than ever. Apparently the laws getting passed confine the consumers to a narrower set of choices rather than confine the corporations to adhering to the law. Several years ago the idea of infringing copyright was introduce in hopes that it could later on create another revenue stream. That seems to be working!

Hold off for a while and see what MS does just in case Alpha is right. If I'm wrong then you get Vista when the bugs are patched out, etc.
February 18, 2007 4:33:43 PM

Quote:
Excuse me? A little more focus? I don't answer to you. We are between tests right now, so as a blog, I can post what I feel like till the next batch of tests are finished. Try looking at some of the reviews that I've done before telling me I need to focus. I test for overclockers.
http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?nam...


I was letting you know that I took the time to checkout the link provided by your signature. I gave you my opinion; your reply does show your true colors.

What do you think of the problem this user had with M$? Link here

I just recently had a run-in with Microsoft over some bugs in XP, and as a result I have a much darker understanding of the Vista EULA than Scott.

The problem was that after upgrading the hardware, I had to revalidate my license. It worked the first time (I called Microsoft for a new code), but then after a reboot, XP complained that my license wasn't valid and I had to revalidate. However due to a bug in XP, it wasn't showing the serial number code that Microsoft needed to issue a new license code. When I called Microsoft, they agreed that my license was valid, but that they wanted money to "support" XP so it would unlock my copy. I pointed out that the support I needed was for software that benefited only them, it wasn't any functionality that I needed. They then switched tacks and said that since I had an OEM copy anyway, upgrading my hardware meant that my copy of XP was no longer licensed to run on my hardware. This was a double-bind: you can use the software as long as it works, but if it fails, you have to pay to fix it, but if you either fail to pay or we fail to fix it, then you didn't have the rights to run it anway!

After working my way up the management chain, I was told that I'd get a call-back from a high level manager. Two months later, s/he never called me back. I fixed the problem by hacking the registry.

I realized from this that Microsoft was taking CONTROL without RESPONSIBILITY and placing me on the opposite polarity of RESPONSIBILITY with no CONTROL. This is typical of authority that believes it is in absolute power: arbitrary, capricious, and abusive. It looks like the Vista EULA simply puts this policy to ink.

Ultimately, the idea is that the consumer just pay and pay and Microsoft have no responsibility in return. I choose not to manifest or support this sort of dysfunctional relationship in my life, or in my business. My next upgrade will be to Linux.
February 18, 2007 5:26:02 PM

Quote:
Excuse me? A little more focus? I don't answer to you. We are between tests right now, so as a blog, I can post what I feel like till the next batch of tests are finished. Try looking at some of the reviews that I've done before telling me I need to focus. I test for overclockers.
http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?nam...

So now how far off topic is the thread going to go you two? I remember that DaSickNinja scolded me for turning his words around since I didn’t understand that his comment, “Crusade anyone?” was poking fun at me and this thread I started personally. I honestly thought that he was being rude like many of the other members of this site and asking his buddies off to play on some RPG that has “crusades”. For all I know there may be the “Spanish Inquisition 2007 on-Line SRPG”???

So, I see a post (a few posts back) that has all of the earmarks that make it delete-able. It has the F word and the “Go To Hell” aspect and seems like a personal attack. I mean to say that I thought you read this thread to make sure that if those sorts of things happened that they would be sorted out? I could swear that you made that point Mr. Ninja. Yet here you and this other guy are holding hands or whatever talking about OVERCLOCKING. Guess what?? Vista is no faster than XP on equal systems with equal clock speeds. In fact Vista is slower then XP in general and especially in GAMES.

I don’t know Mr. Exisnet and he does not need to defend me on my points or at this thread. I appreciate it but it is not necessary. You and he need not fight on account I started this mess. Honestly, I happen to care about the LAW. When corporations exceed the limits of the law we must rally to have our elected officials vote against bills that allow the expansion of corporate power. We must protest with the one true weapon we have in this system and that is by not throwing money at the same people that call you “MONKIES”! It is that simple.

He calls you names and brands you as a simpleton and the resolve is to pay him money! That is great you give him the power he craves and prove his point all in one shot. So there are 3 possibilities or sides of this adventure. 1) Pay now no questions asked and protect MS. 2) Sit on the fence and wait for the Vista hacks and cracks since you know the ins and outs. 3) Save the money that you were going to throw at a new Vista box and go on a vacation to some tropical island (or other place). Build an addition on your house. Go out to dinner. Etc.

Above all keep talking about it. Nothing gets done at all if we say nothing. Don’t FEAR what I say, fear losing your rights, liberties, freedom of choice and dignity. Monopolies are made from corporations that are allowed to expand beyond the confines of their corporate charters. It becomes the duty, right and responsibility of “The People” to do whatever is necessary to end the monopoly since individual rights are more important than corporate profit!

MS and associates are “Closing The Box” with Vista. All hardware has to be accepted by MS into the WHQL program. This is expensive and consumes a great deal of time. MS controls the PMP with this but that control could and has been used to exclude companies from the Windows Kernel. With this MS can work to completely eliminate “Open Source” from your home. If you can’t see why that is bad then just go away.
February 18, 2007 5:39:33 PM

Quote:
These people love Vista and cannot hear you, see you or read you. I can almost imagine one of them now reading your post and choosing what farewell to give you? I think it is a mistake to drop all MS products.


I loaded RC1 and enjoyed it until I learned of what’s going on; triple boot XP/RC1/SUSE. Will hold off purchasing any M$ product till it is absolutely necessary… which is the problem. I’m open to different OS but I want my daughter to have the same tools as the majority of users.

Quote:
I think it is more then fascinating to see the response (lack of response) of the members here to comments made by Bill Gates (the monkey thing). In their eyes Bill Gates is their cult of no personality. One could assume that people that use computers are just a 'bit' smarter than the rest (that was a pun). Apparently computers are like TV. They grasp your inner child and restrict it to the confines of the computer. Those with children see it when you ask your child to, "Turn that thing off!" Sad but true that has moved to the computer too.


Agree, maybe the time of the free-open standard PC is coming to an end; must be regulated for the majority users well being.

Quote:
I would never suggest that Bill Gates is stupid or sub human. He is at the opposite extreme and this makes him ruthless and so arrogant that he knows people will never fight him. We can talk about BG in a more political way. We can discuss all of his billions of donations and we can talk about his view on money (he wrote a few books about it). For this thread I wanted to stick with the basics.


Gates does donate, and so do I. Nice if my purchase of his products would give me a tax credit. I haven’t read any of his books… recommend a particular one?

Quote:
MS became the center of computers and digital media, both, with AACS. The simple way to spank Bill would be to hold off till next year before even considering Vista (it is new, has bugs, some drivers are not available, let the pros & testers help them to patch away) and just stay with XP. My friends and I debated MS for ages on the pros and cons of "A Legal Monopoly". How many posters on this thread called me a PIRATE (arrrrrrrrrrrrrr matey)? How many posters here want to gather support and at least CURB a monopoly for a while?


My wife prefers M$ only because everyone she knows uses it. Big problem for us… excellent position for MS. We decided to keep XP till the need arises to move to the next gotcha M$ OS.

Quote:
With little proof of anything maybe 70 to 80% of the posters here consider me a pirate. The lion share of these are children (ages 14-23) since the post rate on this type of board is the similar to that of torrent sites. My age group sort of drops down real low since most of us work day and night so that our kids can have PS3, X-Box-360, DS Lite, PC, Cell Phone, iPOD..... Oh and be able to post on boards like this one. Here I could fight back and suggest that HDDVD is not something that transports easy over the interweb. Then someone will drag my mom into it and wish her an STD and both of us a trip to hell...


Only the young and naive would think you’re a pirate; most of the posters here seem to overlook and deny what is happing with the PC.

If I’m not mistaken, M$ maybe the next Apple: taking complete control of the hardware, software, fair use, everything all MAC haters hate about Apple. Apparently some early Vista buyers refuse to see the light IMO.
February 18, 2007 7:22:36 PM

Quote:
I think it is more then fascinating to see the response (lack of response) of the members here to comments made by Bill Gates (the monkey thing). In their eyes Bill Gates is their cult of no personality. One could assume that people that use computers are just a 'bit' smarter than the rest (that was a pun). Apparently computers are like TV. They grasp your inner child and restrict it to the confines of the computer. Those with children see it when you ask your child to, "Turn that thing off!" Sad but true that has moved to the computer too.
Agree, maybe the time of the free-open standard PC is coming to an end; must be regulated for the majority users well being.Do you really mean that? That defeats the point of the Bill of Rights. That puts the government and the likes of MS in control of our kids. Thanks to Abe Lincoln and his "railroad fever" corporations were given protections that were only afforded to individuals. In fact corporations back in the day were one of the greatest threats to the founding fathers. The main problem is that should a corporation grow so large it might take a branch of the government w/ it.

MS being what it is by law has to make a PROFIT. The stock holders are entitled by law to dividends and since MS stocks are considered a "good investment" the magnitude of this is beyond VAST. Some of the folks that want to "leave it alone" are protecting their investment portfolio. Some fear that actually splitting MS may cause a stock market crash. I do know this that at some point the government may fear reprisals from MS should a given politician vote against a bill that empowers the people or punishes MS.

The US Gov is now intertwined w/ MS since MS is part of the national defense and all of the politicians use MS software. Even if they use a MAC they are supporting Bill Gates. Bill Gates employs so many that splitting his company may raise the unemployment rate to unacceptable levels? All of this makes it a NIGHTMARE. What happens if Bill decides one morning that he is sick up and fed with it all? What happens if he starts selling his stocks and transitioning the cash into real gold and diamonds? What happens if he closes the doors to all of his offices and terminating all of the workers?

There are a lot of what ifs! Could Bill Gates damage the economy depending on his mood tomorrow? When one group or one man has too much power then something has gone wrong with fair trade. Try to realize this as best as you can; MICROSOFT HAS NO (REPEAT) NO COMPETITION.... This is not time for a, "How did that happen?" or a , "I guess we better pack it in dear." The direct approach works. Question Vista; let 3rd parties test it to see all of the sneaky stuff. Put off buying a new computer. Wow, DX10 Video cards still need to come and be tested, proven and affordable.
February 18, 2007 7:25:55 PM

You make far more of a deal about it than it really is. I frankly don't care, because, I know my way around these companies. Microsoft (I refuse to say M$) left so many holes in the DRM web that its a wonder if they aren't doing this deliberately. If your content is legal, there is nothing to worry about. If your content is illegal, there is still nothing to worry about. Microsoft only cares that you payed for Vista. They couldn't give a damn about what happens after that.

Have you given thought to the fact that... oh maybe 98% of all software is optimized for XP and not Vista/ Come back in a year an tell me the same story.

As for Exisnet, don't insult the way I run a blog, and expect me to sit and take it. More focus? Do you even know what we are about? Why don't you ask before telling me what to do. If you think that is my true color, fine. Have at it. I ain't apologizing to anyone. The blog is meant for the members seeing as 90% of the threads are hidden.

Maybe I'm being a bit combative, but frankly I'm being uncharacteristically reserved. I have no reason to act like a bastard. Please don't make me.
February 18, 2007 9:42:57 PM

Quote:
You make far more of a deal about it than it really is. I frankly don't care, because, I know my way around these companies. Microsoft (I refuse to say M$) left so many holes in the DRM web that its a wonder if they aren't doing this deliberately. If your content is legal, there is nothing to worry about. If your content is illegal, there is still nothing to worry about. Microsoft only cares that you payed for Vista. They couldn't give a damn about what happens after that.

Have you given thought to the fact that... oh maybe 98% of all software is optimized for XP and not Vista/ Come back in a year an tell me the same story.
So, according to you I am probably being a little paranoid and soon I will calm down and realize that Vista is not all that bad? Well it is always possible that I could be blowing the whole thing up or better put making a mountain out of a moll hill. Even you would admit that seeing these guys together on stage sort of sets off bells.

I'm also sure that MS learned quite a bit during the whole DoJ thing and that even though the judges ruled that MS was in fact a MONOPOLY and they were to be broken up the Bush finger of fate chose to pat Bill on the head. I'm sure that by tempting fate Redmond decided to do things differently and "quit" being a MONOPOLY. That is correct, they simply gave it up like "smoking" or "drinking".

I'm sure Bill had a good reason to publically state that, "The average computer user has the mind of a spider monkey." I'm also sure that there must be a reason the average computer users are not offended by that enough to stop buying anything of his! I don't know what that is but none the less I'm sure that there is a reason.

I know I had a reason for mentioning time and time again that MS is "CLOSING THE BOX" so open source (the scourge it is) can be eradicated. Or as Steve Ballmer said, "Linux is a cancer that attaches itself in an intellectual property sense to everything it touches!" Steve also said this, "What was the number one different business model that our company has confronted in the last six years? It’s Open Source. Open Source is not a technology phenomenon; it is a business model phenomenon. Frankly speaking, exactly what that business model is, is still unclear."

Steve has thought about open source quite a bit it seems since he shared this whopper, "Well, I think there are experts who claim Linux violates our intellectual property. I'm not going to comment. But to the degree that that's the case, of course we owe it to our shareholders to have a strategy. And when there is something interesting to say, you'll be the first to hear it."

Could DRM, PMP, AACS, HDMI, DMCA, RIAA, Warner Bros, Sony, Intel, iPOD, Zune, etc. be the sounds of silence that stop Linux cold? To me it looks to be the case...........

Quote:
As for Exisnet, don't insult the way I run a blog, and expect me to sit and take it. More focus? Do you even know what we are about? Why don't you ask before telling me what to do. If you think that is my true color, fine. Have at it. I ain't apologizing to anyone. The blog is meant for the members seeing as 90% of the threads are hidden.

Maybe I'm being a bit combative, but frankly I'm being uncharacteristically reserved. I have no reason to act like a bastard. Please don't make me.
The guy read your blog and so you have to be prepared to take some criticism. You seem to be able to speak your mind (dish it out) so then you have to be able to w/stand direct criticism (take it). Ask him how he thinks your blog can be better rather than using the combative tone. You could turn what he said into a question so that there was no misunderstanding like, "How do you think we can improve our focus and is that the reason that you don't seem to notice what we are all about?" What if Exisnet was some sort of blog expert and could have helped you improve your blog?

Rant Off\
February 18, 2007 10:44:10 PM

Did you read the part where I said 90% of it is hidden? What is publicly available is limited. Its near impossible to make an informed statement when half the truth is hidden from you. You could say the same about Vista. How I run the blog is irrelevant anyways. What I will say is this. Its less of a blog than a company meeting place.
February 18, 2007 11:02:19 PM

Quote:
Did you read the part where I said 90% of it is hidden? What is publicly available is limited. Its near impossible to make an informed statement when half the truth is hidden from you. You could say the same about Vista. How I run the blog is irrelevant anyways. What I will say is this. Its less of a blog than a company meeting place.
Frankly I don't care at all. I guess I'm like you. Read my last post to you again and slowly. What's his name paid you a complement and then also gave you what sounded like an honest opinion. What difference does it make about 90% hidden bla bla whatever? I pointed out that rather than stewing about it, turn it around and ask him some questions. I had many sites over the years on this interweb and I used criticism to my advantage. If I go there and can’t see 90% of something then find that out by getting BOLDED at you can bet that I will not return and I can add the blog to my HOSTS file so I don’t get back there by mistake.
It is a fly and honey thing so put that vinegar down!
February 18, 2007 11:09:50 PM

I'm genuinely sorry for once. I'm having a terrible day, and I'm quite irritated. I'm not in the mood for anyone to speak against the site since I've had to deal with emails telling me what I should and shouldn't do.
February 18, 2007 11:13:05 PM

Apprentice, lay off. I'm too tired to deal with this anymore.
February 18, 2007 11:16:49 PM

Quote:
bah, if you think you're going to earn yourself any respect by insulting people who are the leaders of this forum because they run a simple blog in order to keep their pals informed and up to date so they don't fall into traps that fools like you start with that turn into these flame wars, if so, be my guest, you can still in the whole from hell from which you can from and see where it gets you, otherwise, I think you ought to have respect for your elders (not speaking in terms of age, rather wisdom)
This is being directed to me??
!