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I'm joining the club - A few questions

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February 18, 2007 5:01:05 AM

I finally decided to bite the bullet and go Linux.

There's a few reasons why, I'm hoping maybe someone can agree with my reasoning and kind of give user experience to help support my choices-

1) I want to get back into the habit of learning, and ever since I started playing World of Warcraft (Quit about 3-4 months ago) I couldn't get myself back into the habit of motivating myself to do things. Most notably my huge hiatus from school. I feel like learning how to use Linux will get me into the habit of confronting problems and fixing them with community support because if I want to finish school and succeed in my life alone, I need to learn how to stop relying on user-friendly solutions.

2) I almost bit the bullet and bought Vista, and I still might. The bottom line is, I would rather feel like it's my choice and not like I'm cornered into doing it. I think of Linux as a scenic route to a city I want to move to, that has rocky roads at first but once you get into it, you get beautiful scenery and the ability to deal with issues like flat tires, car trouble and even help other people, which always feels good. Windows is the short, fast boring route that has a fee of $150-300 that you feel like you're being forced to take.

3) I am going to have two hard-drives anyway, so having a separate Windows XP partition will solve my gaming problems, until I can learn how to successfully port Windows games on Linux using Wine on my own, or even see the game support on Linux grow. I also heard there's going to be XSOS that's going to have Direct X10 support. I'm looking forward to that or having the experience with Linux enough to be comfortable to go that route. I figure I wouldn't want to go the Vista route until 2 years from now anyway.

4) It's something I've always put off. I look at people using Linux and the screenshots of their GUI's and I'm honestly envious. I think to myself, "That guy has balls. He dove into it and now he's using it and I'm sitting here using Lame Gates' operating system." I've been wanting to go the Linux route ever since Doom 3 came out when I knew it had Linux support. I thought, "Man I would really kill to use an OS that didn't require so much g** damn security measures". It's not only a pain that you have to pay for Windows itself, it makes it even more hard to swallow that you have to buy everything else when you're homebuilt: Word Processors, Photo Editing, CD Burning utilities, virtual drive programs and on top of ALL those, you have all the security you have to buy. If you're not using McAffee or SpyDoctor, you might as well accept having to reformat every few months, and I'm tired of that.

I figure in the end, you're spending more time jumping through all the security hoops with Windows than you'd have spent total learning Linux, and the pay-off is worth it. 6 months from now I can be fully fledged in Linux and know my way around issues as I come across them, but with Windows? 6 months from now I'll still have to spend 45 minutes every two weeks or so upgrading my virus/spyware security and cleaning out corrupt files.

My questions though:

Since I'm rather new, is Ubuntu the best for the following:
Internet use
Word processing
Wine (For playing games)
Chatting IM Messenger programs
Downloading and watching media via P2P (Bit Torrent)
Good looking GUI
Programs like GIMP(Shop), Krita. GAIM, Mercury, MPlayer, VLC, OpenOffice, mount

I know that with me having a separate XP partition, I'll easily be able to use the Windows equivalents, but I really do want to convert to 100% Linux due to the security and stability.

Also, I have a dual core processor (Pentium D 805). I downloaded the Ubuntu i386 version because I didn't know if the AMD64 version 64-bit also supported Intel 64-bit processors.

My system specs if it helps:
Pentium D 805
Biostar 965PT
1GB DDR2 667 Ram (Corsair XMS2)
EVGA 7900GS - I went with Nvidia because of long-dated Linux support, I feel it's more stable. I also wanted EVGA because of step-up program, so it was win-win for me.
Western Digital SATA 160GB HDD x2 (No Raid) - Is there a problem using SATA drives with Ubuntu?
Onboard audio/onboard LAN

Will I also have to use a USB-converter for my USB mouse? Or will the USB mouse be supported off the bat?

Thanks for any help/suggestions you guys can give out. This rig is being put together over the next 2 week period, so I have roughly 2 weeks to cram everything I can on getting Ubuntu or whatever other version you guys recommend up and running rather quickly.

More about : joining club questions

a b 5 Linux
February 18, 2007 6:27:43 AM

I would recommend both Ubuntu 6.10 desktop and Fedora Core 6 :-D

Twice the Linux goodness!

Both have a nice GUI, firefox, OpenOffice.org, WINE, gaim, bt, GIMP, Krita, MPlayer, VLC, etc

Both update very frequently and support quite a bit of hardware out of the box and even more with optional stuff.

If you decide you hate one or the other or simply no longer need it after you are done experimenting you can free up the space and give it to the distribution you like best without having to reinstall or otherwise disturbing your OS install.

http://mirrors.kernel.org/ubuntu-releases/6.10/ubuntu-6...

http://mirrors.kernel.org/fedora/core/6/x86_64/iso/FC-6...

be sure to check the md5/sha1 sums and gpg keys :-D
a b 5 Linux
February 18, 2007 6:52:59 AM

SATA controllers / drives are no problem for either Ubuntu 6.10 or FC6.

USB mice also work just fine.

GL :-D
Related resources
a b 5 Linux
February 18, 2007 9:12:58 PM

Those are fine reasons to get into trying Linux. Probably the biggest boon in my eyes is that I can do exactly what I want with my system. It's a little more complex especially if you aren't familiar with Unix-like OS's but you get greater flexibility in return.
February 19, 2007 1:55:09 AM

Well, you most certainly are correct. It will be a learning experience, and learning can be a lot of fun. As for what will happen 6 months down the road, that all depends on how much time you actually spend using linux. I have "used linux" for about almost 2 years, but it has only been in the past few months that I have been learning a lot, so i guess it all depends on how much you devote yourself to it. I once heard that if you put yourself in a completely linux environment for a solid month, you will be ready to handle just about anything. While I don't know that you can do ANYTHING after that, i know that would be a really good way to get your "linux legs" (to borrow from nautical sayings). If you have motivational problems, and games are the only thing you need windows for, I suggest you not play any games for an extended period of time (maybe a month) so that you have no reason to boot into windows.

As for the whole distribution thing, any distribution will run the programs you have listed below, so it is really kinda a matter of personal preference which one you go with. A word of warning however, some distributions have higher learning curves than others. Also, some have support groups that are more tolerant of newbies. I personally like Fedora Core 6 as it seems to be pretty easy to use. Ubuntu is also a good starting distro, although I think maybe it is too user friendly (I happen to LIKE picking which packages i install, thank you very much!). I guess I am biased towards fedora core because it was my first linux OS (my first experience was when i bought Fedora Core 2 for dummies, which came w/ a DVD of FC2), but I really like the simplicity of the yum tool for installing binaries. I am told that installing things in Gentoo is even easier with "emerge", but I think you should start out with a more user friendly distro before wandering into the land of Gentoo.

The 64bit question is really a non-issue. As far as I know, all 64bit versions will run just fine on intel 64bit machines as on amd 64bit.

As for really hot desktop looks, since you seem to have a really beefy graphics card at your disposal, you should install Beryl and bring on the eye candy as soon as you get your graphics driver working! Something worth noting is that if you like the look of vista, Beryl with Linux actually pulls of the look of vista better than vista! (i.e. less resource requirement and less lag) Of course, you can configure your desktop to look like just about anything you want, so if you don't like vista's look, you can disregard that statement :wink: .

Also, don't think for a second that just because you are using one distro over another, or one desktop environment over another (e.g. GNOME vs KDE) that you can't make that program work w/o using that distro or desktop environment. All you need to do is just install the proper dependencies and you are good to go. For example, I use K3B while I am in GNOME, and all I had to do was install some of the KDE libraries when i installed FC6.

Good luck to you and welcome to the club!

-Zorak
February 19, 2007 8:32:56 PM

Quote:
I would recommend both Ubuntu 6.10 desktop and Fedora Core 6 :-D

Twice the Linux goodness!

Both have a nice GUI, firefox, OpenOffice.org, WINE, gaim, bt, GIMP, Krita, MPlayer, VLC, etc

Both update very frequently and support quite a bit of hardware out of the box and even more with optional stuff.

If you decide you hate one or the other or simply no longer need it after you are done experimenting you can free up the space and give it to the distribution you like best without having to reinstall or otherwise disturbing your OS install.

http://mirrors.kernel.org/ubuntu-releases/6.10/ubuntu-6...

http://mirrors.kernel.org/fedora/core/6/x86_64/iso/FC-6...

be sure to check the md5/sha1 sums and gpg keys :-D


How do I check the md5/sha1 sums and gpg keys?

I just wasted a DVD trying to burn the Fedora Core 6 DVD. It said failed to burn or something like that. Pretty early in the burn process. The DVD's are 4.7 GB so they definitely have enough space.

Is there anyway I can 100% test the ISO to see if it'll burn before I waste another DVD? DVD blanks are not cheap.
February 19, 2007 8:57:29 PM

Where can I find the MD5 and GPG keys to verify against for the Fedora Core 6 DVD? Mirrors.kernel only has the single CD's.
a b 5 Linux
February 19, 2007 9:01:20 PM

http://mirrors.kernel.org/fedora/core/6/x86_64/iso/

http://mirrors.kernel.org/fedora/core/6/x86_64/iso/SHA1...

Quote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

18d0a690db32fd5569b41acf4f1affeb0448d5fe FC-6-x86_64-rescuecd.iso
5c976214a16b206761e37bbe5c98e53494b115ac FC-6-x86_64-disc1.iso
e2f8375ba631f449d137a28d6947e493c631f198 FC-6-x86_64-disc2.iso
6c85acf08c7944362ba761cc32d1d26c612f327c FC-6-x86_64-disc3.iso
6290f258630cedb82ca45bcaff6d02a122a002df FC-6-x86_64-disc4.iso
7babc6131eb2ead65ca09b5efc475b7b212b0775 FC-6-x86_64-disc5.iso
550da315c09d8b58d4c80534ce5263d359e479be FC-6-x86_64-DVD.iso
38d975b6fa3b49262bc96df4bfd34d335c94ebb6 FC-6-x86_64-disc6.iso
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFFNo/7tEJp0E8qb9IRArlKAJ47cOpedt816Q8k30eRBdTMMeEOpQCfQbYp
onj6enG1968xSLplih7GCRk=
=dKVy
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




The SHA1 sum for the 8x64_64 DVD is 550da315c09d8b58d4c80534ce5263d359e479be FC-6-x86_64-DVD.iso


The i386 images and here:

http://mirrors.kernel.org/fedora/core/6/i386/iso/SHA1SU...
February 19, 2007 9:13:13 PM

Okay the SHA1 passed but the DVD still failed the first time.

I'm wondering if it's because I tried to burn it across the network? (The PC with DVD burner was burning the image FROM my computer instead of copying the ISO to it)
a b 5 Linux
February 19, 2007 9:44:07 PM

Does your burning software have a verify feature?

If so, did it pass?

K3b does :-D

Most installation media have a built-in media-check / verification function -- have you tried it?
February 19, 2007 9:51:02 PM

This may not be a very sophisticated reason for failure, but it could be that you have too many programs running at once, and the overtaxed copmuter ends up making a mistake in the burning process, thereby screwing up your burn. When I burn something that big, I try to shut down any nonessential programs to expedite the process and make sure that the program has enough ram to do its job. Also, if you are getting a lot of errors burning at high speed, try burning at a lower speed. Furthermore, if you are using nero, don't check off the "finalize CD/DVD" option as that will mess up liveCD/DVDs. If you read in the forums for liveCD distros like knoppix, those are all recommendations that they make frequently to clear up issues regarding faulty burning.

Also, what Linux_0 said about K3b and it's verify data feature is absolutely right. I think I may actually prefer K3b to nero :D 

-Zorak

P.S. when you start the fedora install process, make sure you run the "check media" test to make sure that your disk is 100% OK to use. You don't want a faulty install because of faulty media (which might happen if the burner doesn't catch it first).
a b 5 Linux
February 19, 2007 10:13:33 PM

Great suggestions from Zorak :trophy:


If your recording software cannot handle DVD ISOs correctly you can download and install ISOReconder http://isorecorder.alexfeinman.com/download/ISORecorder...

Then use that to burn a CD ISO of Knoppix

http://www.kernel.org/pub/dist/knoppix/

After you are done you can use Knoppix or any other similarly equipped LiveCD with K3b to burn the DVD ISO :wink: :D 

Then you can use this howto:

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/software/memtest86-ISO-b...


GL :-D
February 20, 2007 12:32:06 AM

You know, I kinda wish that there was a windows port of k3b. I am a bit wary of using cygwin under windows because it messed up my system one time. Oh well, i guess it isn't so important as I don't really use windows that much anymore. Still, it would be nice to be able to install k3b on my parents' computers at home so they wouldn't have to spend an arm and a leg on decent burning software.

Note: Someday when I get an engineering job, I am either going to give a generous cash donation to one of these awesome free program projects that has given me so much, or I might just take a crack at the code myself and see if I can contribute that way.

-Zorak
a b 5 Linux
February 20, 2007 2:08:28 AM

Quote:
You know, I kinda wish that there was a windows port of k3b. I am a bit wary of using cygwin under windows because it messed up my system one time. Oh well, i guess it isn't so important as I don't really use windows that much anymore. Still, it would be nice to be able to install k3b on my parents' computers at home so they wouldn't have to spend an arm and a leg on decent burning software.


I bet that there won't be any KDE applications like K3B showing up on Windows for some time yet. The GUI toolkit that KDE and all KDE apps is made with, Qt from a company called Trolltech, just recently was released as an open-source app for Windows. Before, one would have to have paid $1760-3300 for a single Qt license for Windows just to make Qt-based programs run on Windows, which was a deal breaker.

But even though the GUI library for K3B is now free to get on Windows, there would need to be a lot of work done to port K3B from UNIX to Windows. K3B uses a lot of UNIX-specific system calls to the optical drive that need to be translated to work on Windows. Oh, and the only compiler that works with Qt/Windows is mingw. That would probably make porting K3B a non-trivial job and it would likely be easier to simply rewrite K3B using MS tools and MS system calls. The KDE guys would likely rather give themselves a sulfuric acid enema than do that, so I wouldn't hold your breath.

Quote:
Note: Someday when I get an engineering job, I am either going to give a generous cash donation to one of these awesome free program projects that has given me so much, or I might just take a crack at the code myself and see if I can contribute that way.

-Zorak


I intend to also. But as I am going to be in school for 4 more years and a virtual slave for 3-6 more, I don't think I'll have either time nor money to do that any time soon. Maybe once all of the student loans are paid off and I'm not on call for 35 hours at a stretch, 80 hours a week I should be able to do something. The groups and programs have just been far too good and useful for me not to.
March 16, 2007 4:50:22 PM

hey linux 0 i had a question for ya.

i'm just like zorak, as in i feel that we are all kind of pressured into using windows, more specifically towards gamers (which is myself)

i've tried mandrake linux, suse linux, fedora linux, and ect.

i know quite a bit in windows, but i can't remember how in the world i ever learned anything. It's been so long.

I wanted to get away from windows, so the last linux i tried was fedora, can't remember if it was 5 or 6. I remember i was trying to install my nvidia drivings and i couldn't figure out how in the world to install them. I was looking at command lines and typing exactly what it would tell me too, running it as root, ect. and nothing would work. So i got frustrated and ended up just quitting.

I'm curious as to how you learned what you know now in linux. Did you go to school for it, did you just trial and error, ect.

Different linux distros do things differently, ie installation procedures and updating linux ect. What version of linux do you use.

I'm asking because i notice in ur sig it says pm you if you have any problems in linux. I may take you up on that, so i'm curious what distro of linux you have ?
a b 5 Linux
March 16, 2007 8:32:19 PM

I do not mean to answer for linux_0, rather I just wish to add my experience and stories to the sum in order to get a broader picture.

I had started hearing about Linux when I started getting into programming in senior year of highschool, however there were no programming classes nor Linux/Unix classes offered. I installed RedHat 5.1 (circa '98 I believe) on an old Pentium 100MHz I was given. It installed enough for me to get started with programming (a simple editor and gcc).

Over the years, I switched from distro to distro with one fact remaining the same; I used Linux primarily as a work environment when I wanted to code, and that's it. I didn't really have anything else setup other than a webbrowser and perhaps a media player. At this point I really didn't have much skill in terms of actually using Linux, I just knew the few applications I needed.

Fast forward to a few years ago. I was working on a design project for a course (a simple 8-bit data/16-bit address microprocessor, 2 registers, and only a few dozen instructions in the ISA, but I still thought it was cool :)  ). I'd finished the actual design, it was working, and all that was left was to write the report for the lab. I turned off my machine as I figured I'd do it tomorrow. That was the last time I saw Windows boot on that machine. In the morning, I started it only to be greeted with the infamous BSOD, I attempted booting into safe-mode, this also BSOD'd, something that any proficient Windows user knows is bad news. I tried a recovery install, that failed. I had setup a dual-boot on the machine and had just recently wrestled CUPS into recognizing my printer (things weren't as nice then as they are nowadays, I had to find a PPD that was close to my printer and modify it, there wasn't the FoomaticDB generator framework) With this in mind and only a few hours before the lab, I knew that I pretty much had to write the report using whatever was available in the install (I think it was SuSE 7.x, I just remember a lot of green :)  ) I found abiword, and proceeded to write up my report.

Thereafter, I found myself using Linux for more than just work, since my Windows install was still out of commission. It's only then that I started figuring out how to setup various niceties, configured and built my own kernel, started modifying the OS into what I wanted it to be in a manner not possible with Windows. It was at that point that Windows took a backseat to Linux. In the academic environment, there enough annoyances where I cannot completely purge myself of Windows (Quartus, an application used for designing for the Altera lines of FPGAs and CPLDs, only offers a gratis version of the design application for Windows, so far WINE in it's many guises has been unable to use it to the point of programming the device, and I need this program for the course I TA). However, each passing year, I use Windows less and less (I don't play nearly as many of the "new, hot" games as I used to, now if anything it's old emulator games :) )

Basically, as Zorak so aptly stated, one of the best ways to become familiar is to immerse yourself. There's plenty of help out there when you get stuck, which you most certainly need at first, but as time progresses, you'll find you don't run into nearly as many problems and when you do, you know how to fix them.
a b 5 Linux
March 16, 2007 8:49:46 PM

Well I have RHEL, CentOS, Fedora, Ubuntu, Knoppix, *BSD and several others :-D

Your mileage will vary as far as games go.

As I have said many times, some games run better on Linux than they do on windows, some run equally well, some not so well, some with minor issues, some with major issues and some not at all.

Check out the WINE appdb

http://appdb.winehq.org/appbrowse.php

and

http://transgaming.org/gamesdb/

GL :-D
March 16, 2007 11:48:36 PM

sorry for the long delay in posts, half the time i don't have acess to the computer when i'm not home, and then when i'm home im' pretty busy too =P

i was looking at downloading fedora linux 6 core. I don't have any experience in coding, only a little in html, but i understand the commands like, do, loop, for, next, if then, ect.

aside from that i don't know much, and when i look at linux code, sometimes it tends to be a little overwhelming. Anyways i like to play games, i don't really use a lot of office products

also i read about a program i think it was called benyl and it's supposed to use a 3d interface like vista (just a guesstimate)

anyways is there a recommended version of linux to use linux 0 or bmouring. my requirements are pretty much i like to game a lot, and i don't know much about linux right now. At the same time i don't want to install a distro where i'm barely going to learn anything because it's so incredibly easy.

also i am a big fan of eye candy :) 

any recomondations i would be very happy

my system is :

athlon x2 4200
2gigs ram
nvidia 7800gtx
sound blaster audigy
generic nic
liteon dvdrw
300GB HD
a b 5 Linux
March 17, 2007 12:05:23 AM

I would recommend you install Fedora Core 6 + Ubuntu + possibly XP for stubborn games.

Not all windows games will run on WINE or Cedega and VMWare and QEMU are great but not very well suited for games.


Both Ubuntu and Fedora Core 6 support 3D desktops

http://lunapark6.com/?p=2454

Cool stuff :-D



Quote:
sorry for the long delay in posts, half the time i don't have acess to the computer when i'm not home, and then when i'm home im' pretty busy too =P

i was looking at downloading fedora linux 6 core. I don't have any experience in coding, only a little in html, but i understand the commands like, do, loop, for, next, if then, ect.

aside from that i don't know much, and when i look at linux code, sometimes it tends to be a little overwhelming. Anyways i like to play games, i don't really use a lot of office products

also i read about a program i think it was called benyl and it's supposed to use a 3d interface like vista (just a guesstimate)

anyways is there a recommended version of linux to use linux 0 or bmouring. my requirements are pretty much i like to game a lot, and i don't know much about linux right now. At the same time i don't want to install a distro where i'm barely going to learn anything because it's so incredibly easy.

also i am a big fan of eye candy :) 

any recomondations i would be very happy

my system is :

athlon x2 4200
2gigs ram
nvidia 7800gtx
sound blaster audigy
generic nic
liteon dvdrw
300GB HD
March 17, 2007 12:31:06 AM

if possible i would really prefer to install only one distro, then maybe after i learn some then go to another distro, whey are you recomending two different distro's ?

btw the games that i play are Counter-strike

Gothic 3
BF2
oblivion and so on, all of them that i play are for the most part popular

if you think i can get by on one distro i would really prefer to do that until i learn more, versus swithcing back and forth
a b 5 Linux
March 17, 2007 12:53:31 AM

In that case I'd say go for FC6 or just flip a coin.

:-D
March 17, 2007 12:56:44 AM

ok i will download FC6 tonight. thanks for all the help :) 

i'm SURE i will end up running into problems somewhere, if i do i'll post here and look forward to your advice

thanks again ! :)  u too bmouring
March 17, 2007 12:58:36 AM

btw, i went to http://fedora.redhat.com/Download/

and it list the following

i386
x86_64
ppc

now i have a 64 bit processor (which i'm guessing is #2)

but i've heard lots of problems with 64 bit drivers and a bunch of other wierd things. Should i just go for i386 (32 bit) or am i reading this wrong
a b 5 Linux
March 17, 2007 1:21:51 AM

Your CPU can in fact run both 32-bit (i386, or actually any ix86) and 64-bit (x86_64: AMD64/EM64T) code. I run x86_64 on my desktop and it's been fine. There are a handful of problems that 64-bit has and 32-bit doesn't, but most are ameliorated by the fact that a 64-bit Linux distro can run 32-bit code without problems. 64-bit drivers are generally no problem at all as all of the in-kernel drivers are 64-bit and most proprietary ones are available as x86_64 as well. 32-bit Windows codecs didn't used to work in 64-bit Linux, but with the advent of Vista, there are now 64-bit codecs for use (amd64codecs.)

Things like Flash player aren't 64-bit yet, so I suggest that you install Mozilla's 32-bit binary Firefox from their website. That has solved about every problem with 64-bit-ness I have seen. Plus, 64-bit supports more memory and is generally faster at doing things like encoding and compiling. I'll not turn away a roughly 10% speed increase.
March 17, 2007 1:41:42 AM

ok thanks for the info, i'll download the 64 bit version, thanks !
a b 5 Linux
March 17, 2007 1:49:03 AM

Great info from MU_Engineer :-D


I would suggest this:

http://mirrors.kernel.org/fedora/core/6/x86_64/iso/FC-6...

It is 3.8GB

Lots of goodies.

Worth the download.

Make sure you check the SHA1 sums

http://mirrors.kernel.org/fedora/core/6/x86_64/iso/SHA1...

The procedure is pretty much the same as checking md5sums:

http://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/using_md5sums.html


The SHA1 sum will verify the file is authentic and was not damaged in transit.

After you have the ISO you need need to burn the DVD, boot from it and follow the prompts.

GL :-D
March 17, 2007 4:54:44 AM

ok i'm up a for a few minutes before i hit the sack, i read the links you posted

http://rpm.livna.org/rlowiki/UsingLivna

from what i understand ^ that link above will let me download programs from some linux server, i just have to have linvna installed to do it. (and the fedora extras, not sure what that means)

and

http://rpm.livna.org/livna-release-6.rpm

this link is telling it to feth the packets from that web site. I'm guessing there is a baseline of programs, or else it wouldn't know what exactly to download.

The baseline programs i'm guessing are multimedia programs, maybe some added games ?

then the last line

yum update

yum install kmod-nvidia

i'm guessing that this line installs my video drivers, being that i have a nvidia. But what exactly does the command yum update do.

the way i read it is

yum update (update what, how does it know what is updating ?)

yum install kmod-nvidia (i'm guessing video drivers, but how did they get installed, is it pulling it from the livna server ?)

if these questions sound noobish forgive me =P

i have to go to bed, i'm downloading the DVD version of fedora 6. i'm hoping it will be done by tomorrow =P
a b 5 Linux
March 17, 2007 5:35:53 AM

Ok, here's a fairly high-level description of what'd going on with the sequence you've described:

The livna RPM modifies some files that exist on your Fedora install that make the installation system (yum or the graphical equivalent) "aware" of these online repositories that hold RPMs that, due to legal or ideological issues, cannot be distributed via the Fedora servers or discs.

The installation framework must be notified of the updates to these files to know what additional software is available to install (in this case, the closed-source NVidia drivers). That's what the "yum update" command does.

Now that the software installation framework (yum) is aware of the new "repositories", running "yum install kmod-nvidia" will be able to find the requested installation module, as it exists in the repositories you just made the installation system aware of with the "yum update" command.

The installation of the nvidia drivers chooses some sane defaults that work for most cards and (I assume) give you an easy method to modify the configuration to your particular card/monitor/environment (perhaps the nvidia settings app that has been improving slowly over the years?)
a b 5 Linux
March 17, 2007 6:40:48 AM

bmouring as always covered it :-D


I was providing you the commands to easily install the graphics drivers for your nV 7800gtx

The LVN repository provides software which Fedora itself as bmouring already indicated is unable to provide because or Legal and ideological reasons primarily ( copyright laws, patents, DRM, DMCA, etc, etc )

LVN provides much more than just graphics drivers.

[code:1:D 066e506b2]
yum list |grep -i lvn
[/code:1:D 066e506b2]

Will give you a list of what they have on their repository for Fedora Core 6

They provide graphics drivers for nV and ATI cards, Wi-Fi drivers, MPlayer, VLC, audio and video libraries with all kinds of codecs, etc

I would also advise you to

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yum install mplayer vlc # mplayer and VLC are media players
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and whatever other packages you think you like from LVN.


YUM stands for Yellow dog Updater Modified and is effectively an automated software updater originally developed for Yellow Dog Linux. It manages RPMs for you so that you do not have to use complicated RPM commands unless you really want to ( or need to in rare cases ).

RPM = Redhat Package Manager which allows you to install RPMS / software packages for Redhat and Redhat'ish distributions.

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man yum # for the manual page

yum --help # for the command line reference page

yum update # updates all packages

yum install package_name # installs package_name

yum remove package_name # removes package_name

yum install kyum # install the excellent kyum application which provides a nice front-end to yum

yum install yumex # install the yum extender
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GL :-D
March 17, 2007 4:18:47 PM

you guys are funny, lol

it's a little over my head so let me reword it so it makes a little more sense for me.

livna is like windows automatic update. It is always there to download files from. almost like a server.

yum is a program that you have to install to be able to download programs from livna ?

also this command :

yum update - i'm still not sure what this does. I don't understand what you meant by it has to be aware of new repositories.

is yum already installed ?

does yum update download a list of available programs from linva ?
then you get to pick what you want to update, or does it automaticaly update all the programs.

sorry for the massive questions, i'm just trying to understand what is going on. If you are able to explain things in comparison to windows it would make things a lot easier to understand, however i know that can't always be the case with linux

again thanks for the help. I have downloaded 78% of fedora 6 dvd, il'l probably finish up the rest tonight. I will unfortantly be gone all day tomorrow for work but i'll be back on monday. i'll keep checking the forum till tonight and hopefully learn more.
a b 5 Linux
March 17, 2007 8:36:08 PM

No no, I'd much rather you ask questions and understand what's going on (and thusly be more capable of fixing issues that may come up later) then to blindly follow instructions. So let's see if I conjure up a suitable metaphor....

Let's say that you want to add an MP3 player-compatible stereo unit to your car (this represents the RPM package, which is used by Yum, you want to install in your car, or your Fedora install).

You have a buddy who's really good at installing stuff in your car, making sure that you have all of the parts needed to do the installation (this friend is like Yum, he takes packages, makes sure that you have other necessary packages needed to install the new stereo, and installs them and makes sure it works).

Your buddy goes to the dealership for your car (since he wants to use approved packages if possible). The dealership doesn't have any of the desired stereo packages since they'd have to obtain a license to do so. (The dealership in this case acts as the standard repository for Yum, a repository being a server that contains packages that the vendor, in this case the Fedora Foundation, supports).

Let's assume your buddy Yum is really a whiz when it comes to installing stuff, but doesn't know how to use the Yellow Pages or the Internet to find any dealerships or shops (repositories) that sell the wanted package. He comes back to you and tells you "I can't find that package, sorry."

You then do some research and put together a package that lists other dealerships' and retail stores' inventory (other repositories' available packages). Fortunately, others have gathered this information together in a neat little package. (This is the equivalent of downloading the livna package and installing it).

Your buddy Yum is a little slow when it comes to some things, as you've already seen, you have to tell him directly that he can look at these other locations for the needed car stereo package. He reads through the new inventories and now knows what they have at the Livna Brothers' Stereo Emporium. (This is the equivalent of running yum update as it makes Yum aware of what exists in the new repositories. In actuality, the livna repositories hold many packages that, for the afore mentioned reasons in linux_0's post, aren't in the standard repositories)

You ask you buddy Yum to once again install the desired stereo. He knows that he can get it at the Livna Bros' store, but you may also need, for example, some adapter cables (the kernel header files, some libraries, etc.) or a nice front-panel for the unit (the NVidia configuration tool), so he automatically gets all of those for you, installs them, tests it, and lets you know any issues he may have had when installing. (As you can probably guess, this is the action of using Yum to install a package)

You can now thank your buddy for a job well done, and cruise down the road listening to your favorite MP3's (use your Fedora install with excellent OpenGL acceleration).

I hope this metaphor explains things more clearly, I tried my best to clearly yet accurately describe what's going on behind the scenes.
March 17, 2007 9:53:42 PM

i really really hate to say this but you totally lost me with all the car stuff, lol.


you said the following :

He reads through the new inventories and now knows what they have at the Livna Brothers' Stereo Emporium. (This is the equivalent of running yum update as it makes Yum aware of what exists in the new repositories.

what exactly does repositories mean. is it a list of programs ?

if that is the case then

yum update : connects to linva and downloads the list of available repositories ?

now the command YUM you said

You ask you buddy Yum to once again install the desired stereo. He knows that he can get it at the Livna Bros' store, but you may also need, for example, some adapter cables (the kernel header files, some libraries, etc.) or a nice front-panel for the unit (the NVidia configuration tool), so he automatically gets all of those for you, installs them, tests it, and lets you know any issues he may have had when installing. (As you can probably guess, this is the action of using Yum to install a package)

so when you use

yum install mplayer vlc # mplayer and VLC are media players

what it is doing is tellign linux i want YUM (which is a type of installation manager) to install mplayer and vlc. YUM will connect to linva (Because mplayer is not a standard repository) and will find the Mplayer rpm (or package)

that's about what i can figure righ tnow. when it connects to the linva repositoryand it wants to install lets say Mplayer for example. is it in something like a zip file and it downloads that zip file (or package/rpm) or are there just a huge list of files and yum has to complie the files itself and download them to you computer ?

i think i'm slowly starting to understand and i appreciate the patience :) 
March 17, 2007 11:01:27 PM

also i went and downloaded digest it to verify the sa1 but under the instructions for windows (since i'm going to verify the files before i burn them) it says something about openoffice.org archive which i don't think i have ?

fedora is almost done (98%), can i just burn it or do i have to do that hash thing, and if so how exaclty do i do it ?
a b 5 Linux
March 18, 2007 1:43:57 AM

Think of a repository as a warehouse full of software.

You have the Fedora Core warehouse

The Fedora Extras warehouse

The LVN warehouse

etc

They each offer various software packages

The LVN repository is not subject to the same rules as the official Fedora repositories so they can offer specialized versions of the software which Fedora cannot officially include.


When you run [code:1:bf1a16f5e4]yum install package[/code:1:bf1a16f5e4] yum searches it's configuration files finds all the different software repositories searches them for the package you specified.

If the package is found in one of the repositories then yum downloads it from the repository and installs it.


[code:1:bf1a16f5e4]yum update[/code:1:bf1a16f5e4] is a special operation, it determines which packages need to be updated then downloads and installs them.


As far as the SHA1 sum goes I believe the MD Hash Tool extension for firefox supports SHA1 you do not need to download openoffice.

If the MD Hash Tool extension does not work then you can use this tool:

ftp://ftp.gnupg.org/gcrypt/binary/sha1sum.exe

save sha1sum.exe in the same directory as the FC6 ISO:

Start -> Run -> cmd

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sha1sum.exe FC-6-x86_64-DVD.iso
[/code:1:bf1a16f5e4]



FYI the md5 and sha1 sums for sha1sum.exe are:

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md5sum sha1sum.exe
10cf8f3c437f979309c42941f21f4023 sha1sum.exe

sha1sum sha1sum.exe
4a578ecd09a2d0c8431bdd8cf3d5c5f3ddcddfc9 sha1sum.exe
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March 18, 2007 2:29:15 AM

ok so far all is well. i installed the sha1sum.exe and verified both sha1sum and the fedora core, both sums came out to be perfect. i burned it to a dvd but i'm going to have to wait till monday before i actually get to install it.

i was going to put it on the same partition as windows, but i think instead i will leave windows on one hard drive and put linux on another. I'll keep you posted on how all goes.

Again thanks for all who've helped :D 
a b 5 Linux
March 18, 2007 3:29:00 AM

Installing on separate HDDs is a good idea.

Let us know if you have any other questions.

Good luck with your install :-D
March 20, 2007 6:10:52 PM

hey all, i just wanted to give you a quick update. I installed linux and it installed pretty fast. I saw after the installation it said there were 228 security packages that needed updated.

so i clicked on the icon and selected the packages and clicked to update. When it goes to resolving dependencies, it gives me an error that it's missing something. I can't remember what, but then i remember that you said to do

yum update

so i typed that command in the terminal (as root) and i figured that after i ran yum update then i could try to install the security packages.

then i noticed that yum update needs to update 600mb (ouch) :roll:

so i havn't downloaded it yet, i'll download it tonight and keep you guys updated. I've had a lot of overtime at work or else i would have already done it :p 
a b 5 Linux
March 20, 2007 6:38:47 PM

600MB is nothing sometimes it needs to update 3GB :wink: :lol: 

Don't worry though :-D

Updates are a good thing.

After yum update I'd recommend the LVN nVidia drivers + MPlayer and VLC

GL :-D
!