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AMD lets nVidia win

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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April 26, 2007 8:53:20 PM

I'm no doomsayer, but the truth of the matter at hand is undeniable.

The benchmarks for the 2900XTX are atrocious. AMD better figure out a better strategy for ATI's technology. There's no way AMD is going to be able to keep up wtih nVidia now in discreet graphics. Not only are they 6 months behind NV, their product isn't superior.

It's over for AMD/ATI in discreet graphics. And a sad day it is.

More about : amd lets nvidia win

April 26, 2007 9:24:25 PM

You will get no argument from me, AMD/ATI is in really hot water.
April 26, 2007 9:29:13 PM

I wouldn't completely write them off just yet. Yes, the performance of the X2900XTX is inferior, but I (ironically), see hope in the fact that it is inferior not only to the 8800GTX, but also to its little bro the X2900XT. They might release a product that's slower than its competitor, but they won't release if its slower than its own sibling. Probably some bugs to work out, but I'm sure when it hits the market, it will be faster than it is now.

On the bright side, the X2900XT is faster than the 8800GTS. I'm sure at one point in its production it wasn't.
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April 26, 2007 9:48:24 PM

Even if the benchmarks seen recently are true and the 2900XTX is inferior to the 8800GTX then all is not lost.

Keep in mind is the performance hole in the nVidia line.

Most of the press about video cards is focused on the top models.
However, far and way the most of the money is spent on the midrange cards as most consummers can not justify spending $400 and up on a video card.

We have yet to see how the 2600's will perform and until we do I will not count AMD/ATI(or DAAMIT!) as having "...let nVidia win."

Of course it is completely possible all of AMD/ATI's new offerings will suck. 8O

If that is the case then they have indeed let nVidia win and deserve to suffer horribly.
April 26, 2007 10:10:13 PM

The 8800 series has had 6 months worth of driver updates, give it a chance, i think the 2900GTX on release will make bits of the 8800GTX( then be removed from the top again by the 8800 Ultra ), im really hoping so anyway because we need the competition, there will be some business heads in ATI/AMD that will make sure the XTX is at least as good as the GTX, im guessing this is why its been delayed until Q3

Also theyre only DX9 games, DX10 performance will be the critical test

However, i dont like the looks of this - http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&ta...
April 26, 2007 10:16:15 PM

Kind of agree.

Although it's still too early to tell.
April 26, 2007 10:20:40 PM

i'm pretty sad about all of this. my bubble seems completely and totally busted. :cry: 

maybe the midrange cards will magically be about as good as the 2900s, only like $200 cheaper... yeah. i'll keep on dreaming.
April 26, 2007 10:35:15 PM

Quote:
The 8800 series has had 6 months worth of driver updates, give it a chance,


The ATI card had 6 month worth of hardware tweaking and many people gave it a chance. It failed.
April 26, 2007 10:36:06 PM

Quote:
i'm pretty sad about all of this. my bubble seems completely and totally busted. :cry: 

maybe the midrange cards will magically be about as good as the 2900s, only like $200 cheaper... yeah. i'll keep on dreaming.


I´d be happy if they are better than the 8600 series and just a little cheaper. That would really save AMD.
April 26, 2007 10:39:01 PM

Quote:
i think the 2900GTX on release will make bits of the 8800GTX


Is that a new ATI model or has hell frozen over and ATI and nVidia have collaborated on a new card. :lol: 
April 26, 2007 10:42:17 PM

Quote:
i think the 2900GTX on release will make bits of the 8800GTX


Is that a new ATI model or has hell frozen over and ATI and nVidia have collaborated on a new card. :lol: 

lol, my bad, next thing i know it will be in someones sig, lmao, too many fecking postfix types

Slobogob - thats true, but they based it on GDDR4 which might have been a bad idea due to the cost of that ram and probably doesnt provide much of a performance gain
April 26, 2007 10:44:56 PM

Quote:

Slobogob - thats true, but they based it on GDDR4 which might have been a bad idea due to the cost of that ram and probably doesnt provide much of a performance gain


You´re probably right but somehow i believe that once the card makes it to market GDDR4 will have dropped significantly in price. It´s still a long time till may 14th... 2008... or so... :lol: 
April 26, 2007 10:48:52 PM

Quote:

You´re probably right but somehow i believe that once the card makes it to market GDDR4 will have dropped significantly in price. It´s still a long time till may 14th... 2008... or so... :lol: 

lol, thats true, we'll probably have flying cars by the time it comes out, it might have been a very bad gamble by AMD/ATI as i cant remember where i read it but apparently a lot of memory manufacturers are skipping GDDR4 altogether and going with GDDR5 as their next release, this will keep the ram price stupidly high

I still have to say though, my x850pro is far superior in gfx quality than my 7800gtx( very apparent in BF2 Warlord map, fountain at map start is angular on the 7800 but smooth on the x850 pro )
April 26, 2007 11:30:45 PM

Quote:
I'm no doomsayer, but the truth of the matter at hand is undeniable.

The benchmarks for the 2900XTX are atrocious. AMD better figure out a better strategy for ATI's technology. There's no way AMD is going to be able to keep up wtih nVidia now in discreet graphics. Not only are they 6 months behind NV, their product isn't superior.

It's over for AMD/ATI in discreet graphics. And a sad day it is.


Which benchmarks are you talking about? Linky please someone..
April 26, 2007 11:35:50 PM

IMHO graphics quality of ATI cards have always been better. We'll see with the new one even if it doesn't end up as powerful as the 8800GTX. What a shame for ATI though they've almost always trailed Nvidia in pure processing muscle. This time, they were going to smoke Nvidia and it looks like that's not going to happen.

But, the ATI cards may be powerful enough anyway. The 8800GTX is overkill right now, so ATI does have some time to catch up.
April 26, 2007 11:41:13 PM

Quote:
IMHO graphics quality of ATI cards have always been better. We'll see with the new one even if it doesn't end up as powerful as the 8800GTX. What a shame for ATI though they've almost always trailed Nvidia in pure processing muscle. This time, they were going to smoke Nvidia and it looks like that's not going to happen.

But, the ATI cards may be powerful enough anyway. The 8800GTX is overkill right now, so ATI does have some time to catch up.


its only overkill until the dx10 for which it was designed is put to good use in games.[/quote]
April 26, 2007 11:41:49 PM

Youre right, Nvidia is pure rough grunt whereas ATI cards simply produce better pictures( definately doesnt go for the old FX5200 i had though, ewwww ), i just hope it forces nvidia to reduce the price of the 8800GTX :) , if i could pick up one of those babies for just a little more than a 2900XT id be well happy

Quote:


its only overkill until the dx10 for which it was designed is put to good use in games.

I agree( must be the beers, im agreeing with everyobe tonight 8O ), Crysis will be a game that requires an 8800GTX
April 26, 2007 11:50:31 PM

Yeah, but by the time Crysis comes out, ATI will have had a chance to respond with an upgraded card...I said a chance.

On a side note, I hope Crysis doesn't end up being another show-stopping, eye candy game with an uninspiring story as they all seem to be of late.
April 27, 2007 12:00:22 AM

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Yeah, but by the time Crysis comes out, ATI will have had a chance to respond with an upgraded card...I said a chance.

On a side note, I hope Crysis doesn't end up being another show-stopping, eye candy game with an uninspiring story as they all seem to be of late.


Eye candy, physics, nice guns - that's it. I mean, read the trailer:

Quote:
Earth, 2019: A colossal asteroid crashes down to Earth.

The North Korean Government quickly seals off the island chain, claiming the mysteries of the asteroid for themselves. The United States responds by dispatching an elite team of Delta Force Operators to recon the situation and report back to the Pentagon. Amid rising tensions between the US and North Koreans, the asteroid suddenly bursts open, revealing a massive, 2km high alien ship. The ship generates an immense force sphere, freezing a vast portion of the island and drastically altering the global weather system. The invasion of Earth has begun.

The two rival nations unite to stop the aliens and save mankind. The newly formed alliance fights epic battles against the marauding Aliens. With hope rapidly fading, the player must lead a crack squad through lush tropical jungle, harsh frozen landscapes, and finally into the heart of the alien ship itself for the ultimate Zero G encounter with the aliens.


Won't stop me buying this one though.
April 27, 2007 12:01:30 AM

Yeah, that's pretty cool but with the promises Oblivion and STALKER made, I'm pretty skeptical about this statement by the devs of Crysis.
"Emergent gameplay; actions taken in the game affect future outcomes giving each player a unique experience."

I hope it's as great as advertised, because if it is, I'm disappearing from the regular world for a while. :lol: 
April 27, 2007 12:06:11 AM

i think i heard something about some multiplayer mode in which you played like a "conquest" or something, where you went out and captured factories and militarized everything and competed over a period of like 10 simulated days or something... not sure. AH, nevermind. see "Multiplayer" section here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crysis#Multiplayer

that makes the game sound like a little more than pretty moving pictures, although i don't expect it to be another Half-Life 2 or anything. when is it due out, anyway? you really think that ATI will release another card between now and then, PongRules? i mean i hope they can, but isn't it kinda soon?
April 27, 2007 12:09:01 AM

Quote:
Yeah, that's pretty cool but with the promises Oblivion and STALKER made, I'm pretty skeptical about this statement by the devs of Crysis.
"Emergent gameplay; actions taken in the game affect future outcomes giving each player a unique experience."

I hope it's as great as advertised, because if it is, I'm disappearing from the regular world for a while. :lol: 

Yeah, oblivion was very very disappointing, i only ever liked the final fantasy RPG's, tried Oblivion and just thought, how stupid is it that i work on leveling up and all the nastys just become more powerful, whats the point?

I had a fair idea Stalker would be disappointing( i havnt played it yet though so im only going on intuition ) but mainly cos it had too many years development and too many dev teams

I really dont care if about story or any of that rubbish for Crysis, the gameplay sounds amazing, i absolutely love the idea of the suit and being able to configure it to be super strength or speed depending on the situation( as long as its very quick and easy to change ), and all the physics and realism and the new team play stuff they're supposed to have added should make it an absolutely brilliant MP game

BF2 has no story, but it is the only game that ive ever played for 400+ hours and counting, its the WoW for sane actioners :) 

lordaardvark2 - its due september, im keeping my eyes wide open for a beta and checking http://incrysis.com/forums/viewforum.php?id=3 once or twice a week, no news so far on beta
April 27, 2007 3:52:07 AM

lol, its funny cause a bunch of people waited forever for it to come out.

I just bought a GTS like last winter. Who cares if you get 3 more FPS, just buy the card already. 8)
April 27, 2007 1:05:34 PM

Quote:
I'm no doomsayer, but the truth of the matter at hand is undeniable.

The benchmarks for the 2900XTX are atrocious. AMD better figure out a better strategy for ATI's technology. There's no way AMD is going to be able to keep up wtih nVidia now in discreet graphics. Not only are they 6 months behind NV, their product isn't superior.

It's over for AMD/ATI in discreet graphics. And a sad day it is.


I agree ... although it's sad that the 2900XTX is such a disaster … as long as their low-end and mid-end level stuff is competitive (price and performance) than maybe is not such a bad after all.
April 27, 2007 1:06:25 PM

Quote:
The 8800 series has had 6 months worth of driver updates, give it a chance, i think the 2900GTX on release will make bits of the 8800GTX( then be removed from the top again by the 8800 Ultra ), im really hoping so anyway because we need the competition, there will be some business heads in ATI/AMD that will make sure the XTX is at least as good as the GTX, im guessing this is why its been delayed until Q3

Also theyre only DX9 games, DX10 performance will be the critical test

However, i dont like the looks of this - http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&ta...



You guessed wrong .... their first 7 month late card releases sucked and had bucu problems . They've had all their ideas in the lab ..... and none outdo the nvidia's .... who are working great and screaming better video even on DX 9 ! Understand this ... they had as much now almost a year more of time to sell a descent video card than NVIDIA and still can't !!! They're using $ 1.20 an hour Indonesian laborers and still can't compete ! Admit it they've lost !!!! And so have we !!! Whatever the best deal NVIDIA has for graphics by the release date of CRYSIS is what I'm buying and will never again after many years of ATI .... buy their cards again ! The first time I linked to ATI and was sent to the AMD/ATI website I got a low sickening feeling of doom .... and it has shown to be correct . The first outloud words from my mouth were " OH NO ! ... They did'nt sell out to AMD ? " ..... :cry:  ATI stockholders buy it back !!!!!!!! AMD is flopping and near bankruptcy ..... be like HARLEY DAVIDSON and buy it back .... should be alot cheaper after their failures .
April 27, 2007 4:49:02 PM

Quote:

You guessed wrong .... their first 7 month late card releases sucked and had bucu problems

Not really, those benchmark figures have already been deemed very very unreliable

Quote:
They've had all their ideas in the lab ..... and none outdo the nvidia's .... who are working great and screaming better video even on DX 9 ! Understand this ... they had as much now almost a year more of time to sell a descent video card than NVIDIA and still can't !!!

They had plenty of time yes, but how do you know they havnt outdone nvidias card?, surely youre still not using the benchmarks on dailytech as a basis?

Quote:
They're using $ 1.20 an hour Indonesian laborers and still can't compete

As are nvidia, and every other multinational out there

Quote:
! Admit it they've lost !!!! And so have we !!! Whatever the best deal NVIDIA has for graphics by the release date of CRYSIS is what I'm buying and will never again after many years of ATI .... buy their cards again ! The first time I linked to ATI and was sent to the AMD/ATI website I got a low sickening feeling of doom .... and it has shown to be correct . The first outloud words from my mouth were " OH NO ! ... They did'nt sell out to AMD ? " ..... :cry:  ATI stockholders buy it back !!!!!!!! AMD is flopping and near bankruptcy ..... be like HARLEY DAVIDSON and buy it back .... should be alot cheaper after their failures .

They've not lost, i dont care whether i buy an nvidia card or an ATI card, price performance is where its at, and for the moment most of the ATI figures are speculation, not even that it will take DX10 benchmarks before we can even see truthfully which is king

Relax for 2 weeks until the 2900's are at retail and get benchmarked properly, even the 8800 Ultra is looking very crappy at the moment
April 27, 2007 5:07:55 PM

We're talking about a company that's been at the top of the graphics ladder for a long time, and one screw up on a high end series card spells the end for them? I think not. They'll play second fiddle in the high end segment for a while, but they're definitely not done for. Some of you a drama queens.
April 27, 2007 5:21:42 PM

Too bad thought that:

old ATI != new ATI
April 27, 2007 5:54:42 PM

That's what I'm saying. It's only a disaster in the sense they created expectations that this thing was going to whoop 8800GTX ass and made people wait all this time for something that falls more in the 8800GTS range. Other than that, it still seems to be more than capable of running today's games and if it comes at a decent price point, they may be OK. But they really needed to whoop the 8800GTX's ass in order to make a huge comeback but maybe they have something in store for later in the year. Wishful thinking, anyway. Later in the year is not very far away.
a b U Graphics card
April 27, 2007 5:58:24 PM

The only thing that I'm waiting for is a price drop. I'm sure ATI would be able to at least catchup to the 8800 GTX. Though really I don't care as I've never really bought a high end card. I as most people are really interested in the midrange cards. Show me the 2600!!! :lol: 
April 27, 2007 6:29:24 PM

Quote:
I'm no doomsayer, but the truth of the matter at hand is undeniable.

The benchmarks for the 2900XTX are atrocious. AMD better figure out a better strategy for ATI's technology. There's no way AMD is going to be able to keep up wtih nVidia now in discreet graphics. Not only are they 6 months behind NV, their product isn't superior.

It's over for AMD/ATI in discreet graphics. And a sad day it is.
I really didn't expect a thread like this from you. If the benchmarks are true, it's too bad for ATI's high end card, but it's not like ATI is just going to roll over and die.
April 27, 2007 6:31:16 PM

whats the rush, there wont be any DX10 games for a while yet :) 
April 27, 2007 6:41:20 PM

I'm not sure it's fair to compare nVidias dx10 and ATIs comming series. Sure in the graphics department you can say ATI is faster/slower at playing dx9, but what about the add ons like the new sound system that is supposed to be on ATIs entire HD range?

The idea behind the sound system, for those who doesn't know, is to add physics to the creation of sounds. ATI themselves uses the example of a glass table that is destroyed. In games the glas table makes the same sound, no matter the direction or speed of the attack, in real life diffrent angles and speeds give diffrent results, which is the thing this new sound system will calculate and produce. Just imagine the posibilities, like finding a less noisy way to sneak closer to an opponent by using the wind direction. I honestly belive this could be to game sounds what dx10 is for graphics, if not more.

Btw. I read somewhere that ATI is mowing it's launch of the first cards to May 2'nd, to steal some of the thunder from nVidias Ultra, which is supposed to come May 3'rd.
April 27, 2007 6:41:23 PM

If someone has one of these supposedly crappy 2900's please post your pictures of it and your benchmarks or else all is hearsay until the launch... :roll: :roll: :roll:
April 27, 2007 7:02:11 PM

Quote:
The 8800 series has had 6 months worth of driver updates, give it a chance, i think the 2900GTX on release will make bits of the 8800GTX( then be removed from the top again by the 8800 Ultra ), im really hoping so anyway because we need the competition, there will be some business heads in ATI/AMD that will make sure the XTX is at least as good as the GTX, im guessing this is why its been delayed until Q3

Also theyre only DX9 games, DX10 performance will be the critical test

However, i dont like the looks of this - http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&ta...



You guessed wrong .... their first 7 month late card releases sucked and had bucu problems . They've had all their ideas in the lab ..... and none outdo the nvidia's .... who are working great and screaming better video even on DX 9 ! Understand this ... they had as much now almost a year more of time to sell a descent video card than NVIDIA and still can't !!! They're using $ 1.20 an hour Indonesian laborers and still can't compete ! Admit it they've lost !!!! And so have we !!! Whatever the best deal NVIDIA has for graphics by the release date of CRYSIS is what I'm buying and will never again after many years of ATI .... buy their cards again ! The first time I linked to ATI and was sent to the AMD/ATI website I got a low sickening feeling of doom .... and it has shown to be correct . The first outloud words from my mouth were " OH NO ! ... They did'nt sell out to AMD ? " ..... :cry:  ATI stockholders buy it back !!!!!!!! AMD is flopping and near bankruptcy ..... be like HARLEY DAVIDSON and buy it back .... should be alot cheaper after their failures .

But Harley Davidson is American. ATI is Canadian right? I'm not buying those silly Canadians back into business with "their beady little eyes and flappy heads so full of lies". NOW DON'T GET EXCITED!! Thats trying to be humorous, ok not so much trying but being humorous and ripping a line from South Park in the process.

I do agree with many posters its a real shame their top card can't compete. Even the midrange matched against the 8800GTS is a little disappointing. It beats it in some benchmarks but typically not by much at all, something you wouldn't notice outside benchs. I just hope they come back with something soonish so we don't end up having a monopoly on our hands because few of us could afford that due to little price control.
April 27, 2007 11:50:55 PM

Quote:
I just hope they come back with something soonish so we don't end up having a monopoly on our hands because few of us could afford that due to little price control.


I have already thought of a backup plan, in case Nvidia does get their monopoly. It's called an Xbox 360, and there is no need to worry about upgrading every year. Don't get me wrong, I love PC gaming as much as the rest of you. However, there is a limit to how much I can spend on graphics cards.
a b U Graphics card
April 27, 2007 11:53:31 PM

Quote:
.............

:roll:
April 28, 2007 12:11:12 AM

Quote:
I just hope they come back with something soonish so we don't end up having a monopoly on our hands because few of us could afford that due to little price control.


I have already thought of a backup plan, in case Nvidia does get their monopoly. It's called an Xbox 360, and there is no need to worry about upgrading every year. Don't get me wrong, I love PC gaming as much as the rest of you. However, there is a limit to how much I can spend on graphics cards.
Nah, if youre only gonna have one, a PC is best, if you can afford 2 a PC & console is a good setup. PC is so much more than games, if you bought 8 xbox games here in europe in a year that would cost 480euro, 8 PC games cost around 240euro, thats 240 saved and could be used on a gfx card, common sense really :D 
April 28, 2007 12:52:20 AM

Quote:
whats the rush, there wont be any DX10 games for a while yet :) 
When games like Oblivion are already able to bring an 8800GTX to it's knees, any faster videocard is welcome.
April 28, 2007 1:00:09 AM

Quote:
whats the rush, there wont be any DX10 games for a while yet :) 
When games like Oblivion are already able to bring an 8800GTX to it's knees, any faster videocard is welcome.
yeah, but tbh Oblivion is not really a great game and setting everything ultra high doesnt really look extremely different, i guess it comes down to whatever games you play, i have oblivion but didnt really like it, i like FPS and the FPS engines are fantastically optimised( excluding the crappy Vegas which i havnt played after finishing it in 7 hours )

So bottom line is other than oblivion and ridiculas draw distances for Armed Assult there are no games out there where the extra visual quality warrents the price of the 8800GTX, done get me wrong, but theres a limit to how many FPS you want, apart from oblivion( vegas doesnt count ) i play all my collection( FEAR, BF2, Quake 4, HL2, Flatout 2 ) on high/very high @ 1680x1050 with 2xAA
Oblivion is 28-30FPS in the Forrest on deault settings, no AA and 1680x1050. and stupidly high in the caves etc.
!