Future of my Video card..Upgrade?.. currently x1900xtx OC'ed

[jay2tall]

Ok so I keep reading articles and throwing around idea's so i thought maybe I should just throw out a thread to see what everyone thinks.

I currently have a Sapphire x1900xtx overclocked to 722MHz core and 855Mhz on the memory. It runs nice and stable as anything with my thermalright cooler. It is about 6 months old and has done VERY well for me. However In the past month I have replaced my 17"lcd with a Dell 22"widescreen (it was on sale don't bust on my Dell) running a res of 1680x1050. I have started to see some of the newer game running a little choppy and I can't crank the video settings anymore. Quake 4, Doom, Farcry, Serious Sam, Even BF2142 run at max setting with great FPS. However recently I have noticed the games have made a jump in requirements, like Supreme Commander, Stalker, Oblivion, and others. I can still play with OK settings but I fear that upcomming games are going to be even more demanding. Crysis being one of them. I was first looking at a GTS..... Then a GTX... at the same time I knew ATI was eventually going to launch their new cards which now seems like a letdown unless they have a rabbit to pull from a hat soon. I was sorta hoping for the ATI's to drive down the GTX price or check out the 2900xt if it outdid the GTX.

Anyways. My question is. If you had my system and played my games, what would your course of action be? I am looking at the earliest to upgrade 2 months or more from now. I can wait longer, I am just looking for the bigger better deal. I do not want to go over $500 but would prefer in the $400 ball park. I am also looking to reclaim a small amount from my ATI card I have now.

What are your suggestions? And yes I know I will need a bigger PSU, I already thought of that.

 

[cleeve]

Even if the 2900 series is a letdown, I'd hold on to that card for a little longer to see where everybody's pricing will be after it's released.

Won't kill you to keep the X1900 XTX for a bit longer, and holding off a couple months might save you some nice $$$... especially since Crysis isn't here yet.

 

[jay2tall]

You're just saying that cause you have one. HAHA just kidding. Yeah, I am in no hurry to replace my card. I am just thinking ahead because I know it will come one of these days and I know many people that decided on day they needed a new card and just jump on it, meanwhile a week or two later a new card comes out or there is a price cut and they could have researched it a little and saved some $$. I like to analyze everything and get the best for my $$. I'm not a complete cheapo or anything but I like to get my moneys worth.

By the way, have you ever thought about overclocking your card? They are pretty easy to overclock. A good cooler will get the temps down like crazy to. Not to say the stock card isn't great, just gotta bust on ya a little for having an OCed CPU but not Vid card. haha.

 

[cleeve]

Actually, I'm a hardware reviewer for Tom's and I've got an 8800 GTX in my test rig now... just haven't updated the signature yet.

But for what it's worth, I didn't see nearly as much of a big difference between the cards as I thought I would. If I had to spend hard earned cash, I would never have gone to an 8800 GTX from the X1900 XTX just yet.

If I had a 7600 GT or X1650 PRO, the bump would have been alot more meaningful...

 

[laytons]

what about the evga 8800gtx ko card it seems like its clocked a little higher.is that the best 8800

 

[jay2tall]

Actually, I'm a hardware reviewer for Tom's and I've got an 8800 GTX in my test rig now... just haven't updated the signature yet.

But for what it's worth, I didn't see nearly as much of a big difference between the cards as I thought I would. If I had to spend hard earned cash, I would never have gone to an 8800 GTX from the X1900 XTX just yet.

If I had a 7600 GT or X1650 PRO, the bump would have been alot more meaningful...

So you are saying to you it was not worth the extra expense? I deffinitly want to see a nice noticable difference for my money. I know my buddy has a gtx overclocked and alot of high detail games look magnificent, like STALKER. I don't have this game... yet. haha.

He said the next generation nvidia cars should be out around xmas. I am wondering if I should not hold off until then. Although those cards will be expensive just like the 8800's when they first came out. I was thinking about trying to pickup an x1950 crossfire edition card if I can find one cheap, but wasn't sure if I should. I could sell mine off and get a GTS 640 for the cost.

Deffinitly thanks for the input, it serves alot comming from someone who has a 1900xtx.

Anymore thoughts?

 

[jay2tall]

Go ahead and Get a 8800GTX and dont look back. You will not regret it I promise.

I do like the eye candy. I don't like having to lower the quality settings to get good frame rates. But I also do not want to pay through the nose for a nice card. What is the take on the GTX price? Are they looking to lower at all in light of the ATI stuff starting to come out? I'd like to maybe pick up a GTX for a good price that I could OC. Any certain brands OC better than others?

By the way thanks Green768 for those numbers. That lays it out a little better for me.

 

[rahvyn13]

Its hard to say whether or not the 8800 GTX price will drop. I'm hoping so, as I would like to get my hands on one, but balk at spending so much. I think it will depend on the performance of ATI. If the new ATI cards cant touch the GTX, do they really need to drop their prices? However, if the 2900 can start really outselling the 8800 GTS, then they may drop the price a bit to compete with that. I plan to wait at least a month to see what pans out, to much speculation going around now. I'm currently running an ATI x850xt, so am really looking forward to an upgrade...

 

[3Ball]

I wouldnt go as far as to say that cleeve is a moron, but I do agree that the difference is pretty clear. Atleast compared to my friends GTS who has a stock 6400 in his rig. And to the OP, that is a pretty nice OC on the card you have there I have tried to OC mine a few different ways, but just cant get it to go much higheri just set that gpu clock up to 662ghz on the ATI Overdrive and let it be. I have had mine for alittle over a year now and it has been great. Mine is a sapphire with the cooler you see in the sig and it runs pretty damn hot...but works great! lol I have definitely enjoyed this card.

Best,

3Ball

 

[enforcerfx]

Actually, I'm a hardware reviewer for Tom's and I've got an 8800 GTX in my test rig now... just haven't updated the signature yet.

But for what it's worth, I didn't see nearly as much of a big difference between the cards as I thought I would. If I had to spend hard earned cash, I would never have gone to an 8800 GTX from the X1900 XTX just yet.

If I had a 7600 GT or X1650 PRO, the bump would have been alot more meaningful...

Do not. I repeat DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS MORON :roll: Only an Obvious ATI Fanboy would say that he could not see much of a difference going from an X1900XTX to a 8800GTX :lol:

And to think you are a reviewer for Toms :roll: No wonder the 8800GTX benchmarks around here are so far off from every other site on the face of the planet. :lol:


Take it from me. My last card was also a highly overclocked 512mb X1900XT which I had at 730mhz core and 840mem. When I upgraded to my 8800GTX the difference was Night and Day.


Try playing Oblivion, R6, Tombraider Legends, or STALKER maxed out on your X1900XTX and the try it on a 8800GTX and tell me you cannot see a big difference. :roll: Your FPS will more than double and so will the eye candy with 16XAA available to you at the performance cost of only around 4XAA.

Yeah....... hardly any difference at all :roll:





Go ahead and Get a 8800GTX and dont look back. You will not regret it I promise.



Sounds like your a Nvidia Fanboy now. And personally, Cleeve has done a lot here, writing articles, reviews. This guy knows what he is talking about. Plus, I bet he got his 8800GTX for free, being that he is a hardware tester.

The difference may in fact be night and day, but don't doubt others here on this forum, especially cleeve. It's like walking into a battle, without your weapon.


And to the OP, I'd say hold onto your X1900XTX. I just read the article on twitchguru about BioShock, and I bet the X1900XTX would play that decently. Obviously not on a high level with all the eye candy expressed, but enough to make it look good while you play.

And If you yourself are doubting your 22' Dell, I'm interested.

 

[rahvyn13]

I'm currently running an ATI x850xt, so am really looking forward to an upgrade...

Was one of my All time favorite cards.

Yeah, I love the card, however, its time is coming, just went to 22" widescreen and its having problems keeping up sometimes. Crysis would pretty much waste it, so in anticipation...

 

[cleeve]

Only an Obvious ATI Fanboy would say that he could not see much of a difference going from an X1900XTX to a 8800GTX

Um.... no.

I write the best cards for the money article and I've recommended the 8800's as the best buy for months now, so that pretty much shows you're full of it, accusing me of being an Ati fanboy... :roll:

The 8800 is a great buy. Having said that, the X1900 XTX is still a great card. If you own it already - like the OP does - the 8800 GTX wasn't as great a leap as you'd think. And we're talking $550 USD at least for that difference. The OP isn't taxing the card to uberhigh 1900+ pixel resolutions that make the X1900 XTX unplayable yet...

So why not wait a bit until more demanding games come out and prices get cheaper? Even if he's going to end up buying an 8800, another couple months isn't going to hurt him. There's not even a single Dx10 game out there yet, for chrissake.

You're such a fanboy, it's pretty much obvious you've only tried one product... I, however, have tried both. Nevertheless, you don't seem to have a problem with spending other peoples money based on brand alone...

Instead of looking at bar graphs, let's have a look at the real story, shall we? It's pretty much agreed that 60 fps is a good target for playable framerates (especially if you have an LCD screen when your refresh rate is 60 fps anyway)...

Let's look at the numbers in your benches:

HL2 lost coast HDR 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF: 62 fps

Dark Messiah HDR 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF: 58 fps

Quake4 Ultra quality 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF: 58 fps

FEAR 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF: 56 fps

Company of Heroes 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF: 48 fps

Oblivion HDR 1600x1200 4xAA foliage: 27.1


Hmmmm. The X1900 XTX is getting about 60 fps in almost every game. Totally playable.

Only 2 games that the X1900 XTX gets appreciably lower than 60: Company of heroes - which is an RTS, not an FPS, and is quite playable at a few frames lower.
And Oblivion. 27 fps looks bad, but the GTS is getting 33 fps. Even the GTX is only getting 45 fps...

So what if the GTX gets 100 fps in some games - 40 fps faster than an LCD screen can refresh?

The X1900 is more than playable at this resolution. Is the 8800 GTX better? Sure! Is it a great honking huge upgrade? At this resolution, not as much as you'd think.

To read benchmarks you need to do more than look at the pretty bars and scream out the brand name you're hoeing, you have to think a little.



So whose opinion is more objective? The crying fanboy who hasn't held both cards in his hand, or the nonpartisan reporter who has real-life experience with both?

You figure it out, folks. :twisted:

 

[joewho]

Jay2Tall,

Here's my 2 cents. I have 2ea ASUS 7800GTX TOP GPU's in SLI. I picked up a XFX 8800GTX a while back and ran all the 3DMark test on both setups. I was so let down by the numbers I sold the 8800GTX and still have my 2 7800's. At lower res they ran neck and neck. Was a big differance at 1900*1200. Your new LCD is 1680-1050 so the differance will be smaller.

My only issue with my setup is the memory 256mb.

To answer your question. I would wait for the next gen of cards. Oh, just a heads up. If you do get the 8800 make sure it will fit your case. Don't forget to add a little for the power plugs.

Green768,

Play nice

 

[cleeve]

I knew you would probably go there as a last resort and lame attempt at downplaying the obvious advantage the 8800GTX has over a X1900XT. :roll:
This is as lame as it gets right here folks :lol:

It's probably lamer to act as you're an expert, when you have no personal experience with something... :lol:

Once again, we all know the 8800 is the faster card lad. You can complain and trash talk all you like son, but the fact is on an LCD monitor with a 60 Hz refresh rate, you're not going to see much of an advantage once you hit 60 fps. Not such an immediate need that the fellow has to rush out and shell out $550, instead of waiting a couple months like he proposed to...

The second fact is that you've never personally compared an X1900 XTX to an 8800 GTX.

You can argue all you like, but you're still just a kid with no personal experience...

But please, keep talking like you've actually used the hardware you're ranting about: it's kind of funny (in a pathetic, pitiable sort of way). :twisted:

 

[enforcerfx]

This kid seems to be a real punk. From my point of view, here is what Green should do.

/Uninstall. Forever.

And if you think your so cunning yourself, benchmark the games yourself and see how you do. Report back with proof and results please.


Until then, don't post.

 

[lyall]

I find it funny how everyone wants to re-invent the wheel. If you want an unbiased opinion check out the Toms hardware VGA charts and compare the figures for yourself. The URL is: http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html

I'd have to agree if that if you want to try and save money, I'd wait until the DX10 games come out and see how things go then. It sounds like you would kick yourself if you spent $550 dollars on a card and it can't deliver what you want in 6 months time.

DX10 does appear to be a major leap forward in gamin and just looking at screenshots of the upcoming DX10 games, I think everyone is going to want to have a piece of the action.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

OK, Ill keep my eye out for you, Mister NON-FANBOY. I wonder how you came up with the NON-FANBOY nick? Mister green (why not red?) 768 (why not 512?) Please just go read the "good" benches like they do on DT. Oh thats right, DT had excuses, then maybe anywheres else ok? ty

 

[Dr_asik]

Anyways. My question is. If you had my system and played my games, what would your course of action be?

I'd wait for those next-gen games to come out and give them a try on my current setup. If I find the performance unacceptable, then I'll look for an upgrade. But as for now, I would be very satisfied with an X1900XTX.

 

[cleeve]

lol. And I thought you said you were done with me?
Seems it was pretty easy to goad you into a little more... :lol:

Maybe you should give the reading a shot, too... once again, I never said there wasn't a difference. The 8800 is obviously the stronger card, but it's not as much of a difference as most people would think, and IMHO it's not worth the $550 until the Dx10 titles arrive (at which time the 8800's will be cheaper).

Coming from an X1950 PRO or 7900 GS, you'd be crazy to buy an X1950 XTX - the 8800 is obviously the way to go. If I was a fanboy I'd be recommending the X1900/X1950 series, but I'm not - they're a bad buy right now, the 8800 smoke's em.

But if you've already got the X1900 XTX, it's sure as hell not going to hurt to wait a couple months until it's power is needed...

So what we have is a difference of opinion, sir. I don't think the $550 has to be spent immediately - it is my belief a 2 month or so wait won't hurt the OP.

It seems in your opinion, the OP will be suffering somehow by waiting a couple months... I'm not sure how, prices always get lower over time, and there isn't a single game out there that the X1900 XTX can't yet handle @ 1680x1050.

 

[slashzapper]

Okay first of all Green show respect to cleeve ,

This is what i think

Green is right , the numbers are much better on the 8800 gtx and seriously it is awesome .

Here is the catch though the x1900xtx has still got its awesomeness , i mean how many games utilize dx10 none at the moment .

I own a 8800 gts 320meg card and it was a great upgrade from a x1800 gto .

My opinion both you guys are right

GREEN is right on the theoretical difference , and that difference becomes translated into practical performance on a 30inch screen and nothing less.


Cleeve is Right on the money on his point you will see little gaming difference on a 22inch monitor in CURRENT GAMES and in the Next 3months or so .


My opinion keep the card till you buy crysis come home install vista and then in my opinion if the performance sucks or is not upto the mark in dx 9 version , then buy a 8800 gtx or whatever is ruling the roost.

ATI has awesome drivers and Nvidia has great gaming support and control panel .

I have owned both brands there is not much to choose from .

In the end this is my personal request to all new members that please respect everyone on this forum and their opinions specially the senior members

Cleeve is a respected participant on the subject of graphics hardware

please show him the appropriate respect and courtesy. We can all have different opinions but lets discuss them rather then argue aimlessly for our fickle egos.

Cmon guys we all our here to learn so , lets just get along

 

[jay2tall]

Haha this is sorta actually getting humorous to read. I'm actually getting alot out of the arguments and going back and forth along with everyones "opinions" and graphs and insight.

So add to some of the commentary. I don't need to see 100FPS. If I can sit at 60FPS and it's smooth and playable with most of the details maxed or at least on a medium to high setting I am ok. I DO like eyecandy but I do not want to pay the expense just to have something that isn't going to completely shine over what I have. Benches don't mean much for my gaming, I mean they do when everyone lays them on the table and whips out the ruler. But for actual gaming I don't need the 100+FPS. I really don't notice a change with anything over 60 most times. The $550 GTX price tag is a downer for me, I think that is to rich for my blood at this point. My 1900xtx was about $340 or so with a $20-$30 rebate. I believe I payed just over $300 after that. I didn't see the point in getting the new x1950xxtx for $500 over it just for the same clock but faster memory.

Maybe i will just sit tight and wait till the next gen cards come out. Then again they will be premium price and to rich for my blood once again. But then again the GTX would come down and be affordable for me. I wish ATI would release something and if for nothing else the competition. At least get something close to the GTX and make it much cheaper. I'd be willing to buy something $100+ cheaper for a bit less performance. And so would alot of other budget gamers. At the very least it would give other options.

By the way I do not want to part with my Dell 22". I like it exept that on certain angles it glares a bit and miscolors. But when when im in the heat of battle i don't notice much. And for $300 it was a good deal. I'm willing to sacrifice a little performance for a good price point. There is always a happy medium with that.

 

[jay2tall]

And to the OP, that is a pretty nice OC on the card you have there I have tried to OC mine a few different ways, but just cant get it to go much higheri just set that gpu clock up to 662ghz on the ATI Overdrive and let it be. I have had mine for alittle over a year now and it has been great. Mine is a sapphire with the cooler you see in the sig and it runs pretty damn hot...but works great! lol I have definitely enjoyed this card.

By the way I have spent litteraly HOURS on overclocking this thing. Forget CCC, but leave it installed. I have used Rivatuner, ATI Tools, and ATI Tray Tools and found that Tray tools worked best for me. It runs with CCC and does the overclocking for you when a 3d app/game is running. I think the only change I eventually had to do what increase the core voltage one notch. You said you are using the cooler in your sig, but did not see one listed other than your CPU cooler. I first used the Arctic cooler accelero x2 and set the fan to 100% in tray tools. This helped a little bit, but still hovered around 85C in BF2142. Then i added like 4 fans around it to help cool which brought it to 82C. Then I broke down and bought the cooler listed, the HR-03 and with a single 80mm fan. The temps dropped 20C to 62C in BF2142. It ran stable with the AC x2 but just really hot. I can give my 2 cents on this if you want help. It's once thing I do know. haha.

 

[Heyyou27]

It seems in your opinion, the OP will be suffering somehow by waiting a couple months... I'm not sure how, prices always get lower over time, and there isn't a single game out there that the X1900 XTX can't yet handle @ 1680x1050.

That's pretty much true aside from Oblivion and Rainbow Six Vegas.

Also, RobsX2 did have a X1900XT because he use to give me shit about my 7800GTs being slower than it.

 

[jay2tall]

I also thought of an issue I would need to take care of before a new card anyways.... A larger PSU.. would a 750W be sufficient for a GTX or nexgen card? I will probably never run 2 cards.. first being i have a CF board and 2nd by the time I can affor a new card a single card would beat it out of whatever is the latest and greatest.

 

[Gary_Busey]

It's more about the amperage on your 12v rail(s) than than the wattage.