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Hackers Use Brute Force to Crack Windows Activation

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March 5, 2007 7:07:02 AM

Quote:


From The Inquirer

This is ugly for MS, and if it allows you to take back your legit keys, how long do you think it will take before people catch on to the fact that you can call in and hijack already purchased keys once you generate one that someone else activated?


Microsoft will ask for the code from the centre of your legitimate disc before allowing you to activate your hijacked version (you know, the really faint, hard to read serial number of the disc itself). It took over an hour of conversation for my son-in-law to convince MS that he had a legitmate copy of XP even with this method available.

Q
March 5, 2007 9:29:43 AM

M$ should’ve immediately apologized and activated your software and compensate for the problems their activation system caused.
March 5, 2007 11:47:24 AM

Quote:


From The Inquirer

This is ugly for MS, and if it allows you to take back your legit keys, how long do you think it will take before people catch on to the fact that you can call in and hijack already purchased keys once you generate one that someone else activated?


Microsoft will ask for the code from the centre of your legitimate disc before allowing you to activate your hijacked version (you know, the really faint, hard to read serial number of the disc itself). It took over an hour of conversation for my son-in-law to convince MS that he had a legitmate copy of XP even with this method available.

QI first read about the 'Brute Force' key generator on the Doom9 site a few days ago. They posted a link to the site that 'Computer User' (we have a little Who's on first here) resides on. He insists the thing does not work. This might simply be a hoax but if not the implications are (from my point of view) fantastic. Microsoft's method is just like online gaming (for those that do not know) and validation is one of those dirty little things your system does behind your back (ET phone home).
"Computer User's Home Away From Home"
Related resources
March 5, 2007 12:49:30 PM

Quote:
Microsoft's method is just like online gaming (for those that do not know) and validation is one of those dirty little things your system does behind your back (ET phone home).
"Computer User's Home Away From Home"


Could you install it offline, and use the telephone activation? I'm not sure I like the sound of it doing stuff behind my back.
March 5, 2007 1:15:07 PM

Quote:
Microsoft's method is just like online gaming (for those that do not know) and validation is one of those dirty little things your system does behind your back (ET phone home).
"Computer User's Home Away From Home"


Could you install it offline, and use the telephone activation? I'm not sure I like the sound of it doing stuff behind my back.Well we all know that at some point you will need to get to MS Windows Update and the easy answer is NO you CAN'T.
March 5, 2007 2:56:38 PM

Sure you can. I have PCs that have never connected to an outside connection (no outside network or modem access).
March 5, 2007 3:26:05 PM

Quote:
Sure you can. I have PCs that have never connected to an outside connection (no outside network or modem access).
LOL These days what is the point of a grounded box? No offence but that is what you are talking about. No updates of any sort. No online games. No porn. No virii. No downloads. No internet and no Tom's. So then you have a word processor and solitaire game station... Nice. So then why pay the 4 bills to get Vista? Windows 95b would be great!
March 5, 2007 3:40:14 PM

One of the points of Secure Computing is that you download only the updates that apply to you. Keep the box off the INet and use it for business data and you can still use it for gaming. You know what you are accessing and have less to worry about your data protection. Online games should be on a PC that you can afford for others to see your data. I download all of my updates off the net on the public PCs and apply them manually internally. I've never had a virus or spyware issue. No data loss issues. I have PCs that I use for public use that are not on that network, but really who would ever suggest that any INet access is secure? If you're just surfing porn, why use Windows at all - I understand that Mac has a prettier screen. So, yeah, you are totally incorrect and you can disable Windows Update if its an issue (and probably should if you don't know enough that you can't).
March 6, 2007 6:10:53 PM

I dont see why anyone would want to crack windows vista at this point in time. I hate vista. Its caused me alot of grief with geforce 8800 video drivers, my battlefield 2142 locksup and crashes too often, had to do alot of looking about for compatible software. When I had XP PRo I was mr superstar and everything worked perfect. Screw Vista + those fools who manage to crack a key for it
March 7, 2007 12:17:45 PM

There is a way around the MS verification. Namely, the verification generator that Microsoft themselves supplies. I'll let you figure that out since you're so smart.
March 7, 2007 3:07:44 PM

Quote:
There is a way around the MS verification. Namely, the verification generator that Microsoft themselves supplies. I'll let you figure that out since you're so smart.
Why would you even say that Mr. Sick? Does Tom's Hardware condone going "Around" DRM?? Are you saying that it is OK to what according to the DMCA is theft when you "Go Around" things??? If you are attempting to send a message to Microsoft, LOL there is a better way! Don't USE DRM infested crapolski. Don't buy it or steal it simply ignore it; after a while it will just go away.
March 7, 2007 3:26:33 PM

Its in my nature to work around and exploit every hole in software. I'm not sending a message, I'm just stating fact. And besides noting a hole in Microsoft's own verifier, I'm not giving anyone the instructions on how to crack Vista.

And all this is being typed from a Vista computer. Payed for. In full.
March 7, 2007 4:21:42 PM

Quote:
Its in my nature to work around and exploit every hole in software. I'm not sending a message, I'm just stating fact. And besides noting a hole in Microsoft's own verifier, I'm not giving anyone the instructions on how to crack Vista.

And all this is being typed from a Vista computer. Payed for. In full.
The DMCA is clear and you are clear that it is in your nature to violate the DMCA. In a nutshell MS does not have to protect anything and the consequences of DMCA infractions remain the same. All you have to do is "work around" “things” (things means PROTECTION) too many times. As for MS tools you must be talking about the Paradox OEM workaround. That method is also infringing. Get a grip dude.
March 7, 2007 4:26:18 PM

No, I'm not. You'd do well to stop assuming.
March 7, 2007 4:35:56 PM

Quote:
No, I'm not. You'd do well to stop assuming.

You'd do well to (blank)......
That is a threat baby and you can take that threat and put it where the sun does not shine...
See what I'm sayin moonbeam?
March 7, 2007 4:45:33 PM

Where is the threat? Point out specifically where the threat is. If you are talking about to your intelligence, I can't do anything about that. If you mean to your person, I've got nothing more to say to you.
March 7, 2007 10:01:31 PM

As for the "Brute Force" Crack:

http://keznews.com/2442_windows_vista_keygen_a_hoax_
Quote:
The author of the Windows Vista keygen (Computer User) that was reported yesterday has admitted that the program does not actually work.

...


Apparently, the keygen program does legitimately attack Windows Vista keys via brute force, but the chances of success are too low for this to be a practical method. Quote from the author: 'Everyone who said they got a key is probably lying or mistaken!'"
March 7, 2007 11:11:39 PM

Quote:
As for the "Brute Force" Crack:

http://keznews.com/2442_windows_vista_keygen_a_hoax_
The author of the Windows Vista keygen (Computer User) that was reported yesterday has admitted that the program does not actually work.

...


Apparently, the keygen program does legitimately attack Windows Vista keys via brute force, but the chances of success are too low for this to be a practical method. Quote from the author: 'Everyone who said they got a key is probably lying or mistaken!'"
post #3 above ^^^^^ already has this info. There is a point to make though. Computer User is doing everything he can to disclaim anything regarding that generator. MS seems content to let things ride for 120 (using rearm) days. There is no telling what little gremlins are still sleeping inside vista.
March 7, 2007 11:43:09 PM

:oops:  I saw your post, but I missed the link. Apparently, they are working on a new way around it - but MS is sure to shut this door.
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38029

I wish people would just pay for their freakin' software. The more hacks - the more countermeasures, and the legitimate users are the ones caught in the middle.
March 8, 2007 1:06:59 AM

Quote:
:oops:  I saw your post, but I missed the link. Apparently, they are working on a new way around it - but MS is sure to shut this door.
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38029

I wish people would just pay for their freakin' software. The more hacks - the more countermeasures, and the legitimate users are the ones caught in the middle.
I don't agree completely and I will explain. In the past, Microsoft had a more realistic price point. The Redmond crew blames costs on Piracy then takes code from Linux (the stack) and charges for it starting in Windows 2000. Microsoft makes a new kernel for vista tied to DRM and AACS, charges more for it then makes money on the HDDVDs in the form of a royalty. I could live with the HDDVD in the living room but apparently AACS is the main focal point of everything digital.

I'm 99% sure that MS has gone to the dark side with this one decision alone but compounding it by charging around $300-400.00 for Ultimate is Satanic. You wish people would stop stealing (that is not going to happen) and I wish people would format Vista from their minds, hearts and computers to send a resounding message to Redmond that we are not amused. I said in another thread that I will manage all of the media and software on my computers and Bill does not have to worry at all.

Some believe that MS worked it out with Hollywood so that we can get this great HD DVD stuff in PCs and that he did us a favor? Fine believe that if you want. MS is the main principal of AACS LA and joined forces with the Freaky Five (Intel, Sony, Toshiba, Warner Brothers, Matsumi and Walt Disney). The very same Freaky Five do DRM for non premium content like MP3s. So we go from the users are stealing to the corporations are stealing.

And you all want to allow that?? I can't understand the grip that so so many allow MS to have on them and on their computers. Ahhhh but what the hell do I know? I removed the the gremlins from my box yesterday and in a years’ time when the Chinese and Russians hack Vista to bits maybe Vista will only be $50.00?? I mean folks, honestly, the PMP is comprised of the PVP & PAP and the idea is that all HD data passing through will remain encrypted at all points till your eyes and ears. TPM will encrypt your NTFS drives and we are at major levels of paranoia.

My advice all along was to at least hold off a while, or better yet help send a loud message that we just don't want DRM and simply enforce the copy protection that existed pre-DMCA.....SIMPLE. I just read about another kid that got done by the RIAA and in the end it was his parents who were screwed! How is it that laws about copy protection rise to be anything like serious. Serious = Murder/Rape/War bad = burglary, recklessness, spreading STDs minor = drunken bar room stuff trivial = copy a song or movie or ....

Now the FED wants recorded TV stopped... So what is the point of all of this? Like drugs people, SIMPLY....SAY NO!
March 8, 2007 11:07:13 AM

Seriously, do your rants ever follow a straight line of thought and stick to a subject? Stick to a [/tinfoil hat off] argument and it might sound less delusional. There is not a green goblin behind every bush - if we believed in your worldview, every vendor in the world is out to get the consumer because they all secretly work for the world governments.

Anyway, as a network admin, I've used the MS approved method of getting around both networked Windows activation and Windows Update that they have suggested for years. It works for 2000, XP and Vista. The linked crack would probably work, break again on a new MS update push, then get re-cracked. This always happens, so it is only news for a few weeks before it's old news again. No big deal.
March 8, 2007 12:06:56 PM

Quote:
Seriously, do your rants ever follow a straight line of thought and stick to a subject? Stick to a [/tinfoil hat off] argument and it might sound less delusional. There is not a green goblin behind every bush - if we believed in your worldview, every vendor in the world is out to get the consumer because they all secretly work for the world governments.

Anyway, as a network admin, I've used the MS approved method of getting around both networked Windows activation and Windows Update that they have suggested for years. It works for 2000, XP and Vista. The linked crack would probably work, break again on a new MS update push, then get re-cracked. This always happens, so it is only news for a few weeks before it's old news again. No big deal.
So you disagree and that is good. You don't elaborate as to why you disagree and that is so-so. You start off with name calling (tin hat, ranter, delusional, paranoia) and simply say that my view is skewed and that is BAD.

Since you feel the urge to chime in pkellmey, I was having a laugh going over your posts; do you realize that you're a Microsoft FAN BOY? Your such a M$ FAN BOY that I'll bet you don't even know it! The majority of your posts absolve 100% of MS's ill will.

And seriously, if my post was a rant then your post is a rant too. Come to think of it, according to Bill Gates we are only "spider monkeys" so it makes sense that you would enjoy throwing fecal matter about. Oh, and it comes as no surprise that you work in IT yet you are not the only one w/ root.

Hugs & Kisses /NULL
March 8, 2007 1:09:44 PM

Quote:
do you realize that you're a Microsoft FAN BOY? Your such a M$ FAN BOY that I'll bet you don't even know it! The majority of your posts absolve 100% of MS's ill will.

You obviously don't read so well, which is understandable - after all most of the developed world reads so it must be a conspiracy...
I recognize every OS has its limitation - I don't expect any one OS to be perfect. Where there are obvious OS creator issues, I call it like I do with their new copy function. Where a device man. needs to fix their drivers, I call it, like NVidia's obvious issues. Are you saying that makes me an ATI fanboy as well? If its a standards issue (DRM, 802.11n, etc.) I recognize that MANY people/companies are creating the standard and that is the way it is - if I don't like it (like HD-DVD or BluRay), I just don't buy it. Let other people use it, why should I rant against them for having a preference different than mine? It's not a conspiracy. The DRM crap is an HD-DVD/BlueRay issue and should be recognized as that - I have not had a single DRM-related issue with my media content. I recognize that MS wants to make money and will do everything that they can to do that (as they should - companies are only there to make sales for things we think we need), but I also recognize that if I saw an OS that was worth going to for home use I'd be there in an instant. So far, Unix, Linux and Apple doesn't impress me enough even though I work with them and a few other OS on a daily basis (that may be the reason I am not as impressed) and recognize each of their faults and strengths. I have worked with Windows since the beginning and recognize their issues and I know which issues are bigger than they are. As has been addressed, I know that Sony, Apple, MS, Hollywood and governments get involved in a lot of technical issues, so MS is not the only party involved. If that makes me a fanboy, then you don't understand the term. The larger issue that you may not understand is if I post on an issue, I stick to the issue and not rant about the world conspiracy that is obviously tracking you at this very moment.
March 8, 2007 1:32:17 PM

I understand and fully agree with your right to let people know about the DRM and other restrictive measures that mar not only the Vista platform but also the entire Microsoft family, but for God sake, do you have to go doing such in every post and in every thread that you happen to see? Do you have to resort to juvenile tactics, to calling people fanboys, to insulting people? Frankly, I don't see the need for you to do that. It only turns people off from your remarks.
March 8, 2007 2:01:33 PM

Quote:
do you realize that you're a Microsoft FAN BOY? Your such a M$ FAN BOY that I'll bet you don't even know it! The majority of your posts absolve 100% of MS's ill will.

You obviously don't read so well, which is understandable - after all most of the developed world reads so it must be a conspiracy...
bla bla bla M$FanBoy is L33T...
Honestly, do you ever sit back and wonder how you got that way? All whacked out and off your Zoloft?
But get this you are not the centre of knowledge or the center”er” of knowledge. I could debate the issues regarding Microsoft (there are several), yet it is more simple to say that since I can't relate to L33T Spider Monkeys like you that I will save the effort for something more worthwhile.

Hugs & Kisses Sweetheart
March 8, 2007 2:17:39 PM

Again, great way to discuss the issue at hand...
March 8, 2007 2:56:05 PM

Quote:
I understand and fully agree with your right to let people know about the DRM and other restrictive measures that mar not only the Vista platform but also the entire Microsoft family, but for God sake, do you have to go doing such in every post and in every thread that you happen to see? Do you have to resort to juvenile tactics, to calling people fanboys, to insulting people? Frankly, I don't see the need for you to do that. It only turns people off from your remarks.


1) Look up at the forum title it says something like Vista/General Discussion...

2) Read the subject of this thread it says something like Hackers Use Brute Force to bla bla...

3) Read message #20 in this thread posted by me. It was an opinion piece directed to exit2dos more than anyone else. It was in response to message #19 in this thread too.

4) Read message #20 again if you will and see if I mention pkellmey? Did I direct that post to him? Since I replied to #19 the reality is that I was not talking to pkellmey!

5) Read message #21 by pkellmey and note the content of his first paragraph. Allow me to quote that so you don't have to scroll around...
Quote:
Seriously, do your rants ever follow a straight line of thought and stick to a subject? Stick to a [/tinfoil hat off] argument and it might sound less delusional. There is not a green goblin behind every bush - if we believed in your worldview, every vendor in the world is out to get the consumer because they all secretly work for the world governments.
Here pkellmey is doing what is known as "STARTING Do-Do" Ninja you do understand that saying things like, "Seriously, do your rants ever follow a straight line of thought and stick to a subject?" or "Stick to a [/tinfoil hat off] argument and it might sound less delusional." are PUT DOWNS?

6) Think about it: A guy/girl that I was not replying to felt the need to chastise me and label me as...
a) A joker/clown since he/she said, "Seriously..."
b) A ranter since he/she said, "do your rants ever..."
c) Delusional since he/she said, "it might sound less delusional" yet implying that what I say according to him will always be delusional.
d) (There is more but I'm sure you see it)...

Ninja, you said, "Do you have to resort to juvenile tactics, to calling people fanboys, to insulting people? Frankly, I don't see the need for you to do that. It only turns people off from your remarks." Since that is what you said we need to look at post #22 on this thread. Post #22 is a clear reply to post #21 by pkellmey. I will quote what I said here so you don't have to scroll...
Quote:
So you disagree and that is good. You don't elaborate as to why you disagree and that is so-so. You start off with name calling (tin hat, ranter, delusional, paranoia) and simply say that my view is skewed and that is BAD.

Since you feel the urge to chime in pkellmey, I was having a laugh going over your posts; do you realize that you're a Microsoft FAN BOY? Your such a M$ FAN BOY that I'll bet you don't even know it! The majority of your posts absolve 100% of MS's ill will.

And seriously, if my post was a rant then your post is a rant too. Come to think of it, according to Bill Gates we are only "spider monkeys" so it makes sense that you would enjoy throwing fecal matter about. Oh, and it comes as no surprise that you work in IT yet you are not the only one w/ root.

Hugs & Kisses /NULL
Paragraph #1 in SUM... I let pkellmey know what I thought about his/her reply by listing the basics of what was high, medium and low from what I read in said reply.

Paragraph #2 in SUM... I let pkellmey know that his/her comment was a personal dig about me and that I re-read many of his/her posts and that my take on him/her is that he/she is a "M$ FANBOY"

Paragraph #3 in SUM... I let pkellmey know that his/her reply was complete "CR*P" and insulting too. Since "FECAL MATTER" is not a four letter word I elected to use it rather than "C*AP" since I don't choose to use offensive words. None the less it is an accurate statement. In the end I made a comment about ROOT and since he felt the need to let me and any other readers know that he is a PRO JOE ADMIN (as if to say that he is superior though he is most likely just an ass).

Hugs & Kisses /NULL
March 8, 2007 2:57:55 PM

When I started this thread I had no idea it would go in this direction.


(grins quietly to himself and ambles away)

Q
March 8, 2007 3:03:46 PM

Quote:
Again, great way to discuss the issue at hand...
The topic is "Hackers Use Brute Force to Crack Windows Activation" and since you said, "Anyway, as a network admin, I've used the MS approved method of getting around both networked Windows activation and Windows Update that they have suggested for years. It works for 2000, XP and Vista. The linked crack would probably work, break again on a new MS update push, then get re-cracked. This always happens, so it is only news for a few weeks before it's old news again. No big deal." then it is a done deal for your part on this thread. What on earth does a MS tool have to do with "Computer User" who said he wrote the key generator for "educational reasons"? You need a spoon of your own meds buddy pal. It has nothing to do with it.
March 8, 2007 3:44:17 PM

Quote:
I understand and fully agree with your right to let people know about the DRM and other restrictive measures that mar not only the Vista platform but also the entire Microsoft family, but for God sake, do you have to go doing such in every post and in every thread that you happen to see? Do you have to resort to juvenile tactics, to calling people fanboys, to insulting people? Frankly, I don't see the need for you to do that. It only turns people off from your remarks.


1) Look up at the forum title it says something like Vista/General Discussion...

2) Read the subject of this thread it says something like Hackers Use Brute Force to bla bla...

3) Read message #20 in this thread posted by me. It was an opinion piece directed to exit2dos more than anyone else. It was in response to message #19 in this thread too.

4) Read message #20 again if you will and see if I mention pkellmey? Did I direct that post to him? Since I replied to #19 the reality is that I was not talking to pkellmey!

5) Read message #21 by pkellmey and note the content of his first paragraph. Allow me to quote that so you don't have to scroll around...
Quote:
Seriously, do your rants ever follow a straight line of thought and stick to a subject? Stick to a [/tinfoil hat off] argument and it might sound less delusional. There is not a green goblin behind every bush - if we believed in your worldview, every vendor in the world is out to get the consumer because they all secretly work for the world governments.
Here pkellmey is doing what is known as "STARTING Do-Do" Ninja you do understand that saying things like, "Seriously, do your rants ever follow a straight line of thought and stick to a subject?" or "Stick to a [/tinfoil hat off] argument and it might sound less delusional." are PUT DOWNS?

6) Think about it: A guy/girl that I was not replying to felt the need to chastise me and label me as...
a) A joker/clown since he/she said, "Seriously..."
b) A ranter since he/she said, "do your rants ever..."
c) Delusional since he/she said, "it might sound less delusional" yet implying that what I say according to him will always be delusional.
d) (There is more but I'm sure you see it)...

Ninja, you said, "Do you have to resort to juvenile tactics, to calling people fanboys, to insulting people? Frankly, I don't see the need for you to do that. It only turns people off from your remarks." Since that is what you said we need to look at post #22 on this thread. Post #22 is a clear reply to post #21 by pkellmey. I will quote what I said here so you don't have to scroll...
Quote:
So you disagree and that is good. You don't elaborate as to why you disagree and that is so-so. You start off with name calling (tin hat, ranter, delusional, paranoia) and simply say that my view is skewed and that is BAD.

Since you feel the urge to chime in pkellmey, I was having a laugh going over your posts; do you realize that you're a Microsoft FAN BOY? Your such a M$ FAN BOY that I'll bet you don't even know it! The majority of your posts absolve 100% of MS's ill will.

And seriously, if my post was a rant then your post is a rant too. Come to think of it, according to Bill Gates we are only "spider monkeys" so it makes sense that you would enjoy throwing fecal matter about. Oh, and it comes as no surprise that you work in IT yet you are not the only one w/ root.

Hugs & Kisses /NULL
Paragraph #1 in SUM... I let pkellmey know what I thought about his/her reply by listing the basics of what was high, medium and low from what I read in said reply.

Paragraph #2 in SUM... I let pkellmey know that his/her comment was a personal dig about me and that I re-read many of his/her posts and that my take on him/her is that he/she is a "M$ FANBOY"

Paragraph #3 in SUM... I let pkellmey know that his/her reply was complete "CR*P" and insulting too. Since "FECAL MATTER" is not a four letter word I elected to use it rather than "C*AP" since I don't choose to use offensive words. None the less it is an accurate statement. In the end I made a comment about ROOT and since he felt the need to let me and any other readers know that he is a PRO JOE ADMIN (as if to say that he is superior though he is most likely just an ass).

Hugs & Kisses /NULL
I think I'll go find th quote where you said that anyone can reply to anyone because this is a public forum. It came from your own SN. No one needs an invitation to speak about a topic. I don't need to be spoken to, to say my piece. The fact remains that you are ranting, he didn't make a personal attack on you, yet you are the first to respond with "M$ Fanboy insults." So, I'm not going to bother reading that long diatribe you call an explanation because the facts are as stated.
March 8, 2007 3:48:56 PM

Quote:
I think I'll go find th quote where you said that anyone can reply to anyone because this is a public forum. It came from your own SN. No one needs an invitation to speak about a topic. I don't need to be spoken to, to say my piece. The fact remains that you are ranting, he didn't make a personal attack on you, yet you are the first to respond with "M$ Fanboy insults." So, I'm not going to bother reading that long diatribe you call an explanation because the facts are as stated.
Gerrrrrrrrrrrrrrr grrrrrrrrrrrrr LOL Oh I know I will use the same words you do Ninja SHUT UP!
March 8, 2007 4:05:19 PM

How quaint. I'll leave you to your own devices. Maybe you'll come to your senses and not act like a fool when you've had time to cool off.
March 8, 2007 4:23:09 PM

Quote:
How quaint. I'll leave you to your own devices. Maybe you'll come to your senses and not act like a fool when you've had time to cool off.
Quaint? RoFLOL LOL A ha ha ahahahahahah. I thought you were a Ninja? How come I can see your posts?
March 9, 2007 9:39:13 PM

One general comment,

I'm not sure how windows activation got to be such a big issue or why apparently there seems to be such a big concern with illegal copies of windows. For the most part , you cant buy a computer without having a windows os already installed. Even if you buy the cheapest dell system --- the os is already installed --- why would anyone need to pirate it???. All of this seemed to originate from concerns with illegal copies of xp. My biggest problem with this is I'm not sure where this concern originates as most computers already have os installed when purchased; thereby negating the need to pirate. Is all of this pirating really occurring????? If it is occuring --- where are people getting all these cheap computers without the os????? Are dell purchasers also part of this piracy ring?????

If you can buy a computer cheaper than $350 with xp already on it --- why would you need to pirate it --- perhaps i'm missing something here???.
March 9, 2007 9:49:29 PM

Many of us build our own computer systems, so illegal copies become a big deal. It's also a factor when one upgrades from an existing XP system to Vista.
March 9, 2007 10:18:13 PM

exit2dos,

Did not consider custom builders such as yourself ---- guess this would be a big deal.

Do not believe it is issue with upgrades from existing xp system to vista as most existing xp computers are some what limited as to upgrading to vista (i wouldnt do it for any of my existing xp systems as do not believe they would run well under vista even if upgrade advisor said ok) -- Even if somebody gave me a free copy of vista to install on my existing xp machines --- i would not do it as I think its just more problems than its worth --- but this is just my opinion.

Still seems most people buy their systems from people like dell --- but maybe there is more people than i think that build their own systems.

I guess bigger issue in future could be people wanting illegal copies of the better versions of vista ---- there really wasnt any difference for me between running xp home or xp professional ---- but with all the new versions of vista ---- there could be some big differences that could cause some people to want or need to upgrade from vista home to vista ultimate or business. The heavy pricing structure between the versions and lack of features could cause a new demand in piracy??? --- just a thought
March 9, 2007 11:01:18 PM

As far as upgrades - I think this market is a lot bigger than you'd expect - nearly all of retail sales of Vista are probably from upgrade editions. Even a budget XP system can run Vista Home Basic. Many users have been waiting for Vista, and have top-of-the-line XP systems ready to upgrade.

I don't know if trying to upgrade one's version is much of a factor since you need the actual Windows DVD (Something vendor's such as Dell and HP no longer include) to install the new version. Granted, you could download a copy from a torrent sight - but it's seems more effort than what it's worth.
March 9, 2007 11:34:28 PM

exist2dos,

I recently bought two new computer with a free upgrade path to vista premium. I had planned to use these new versions in a vm under xp as I cannot afford to have vista as a primary operating system due the nature of my work applications. However, I do need to have access to vista in a vm so as to learn about it and see how some applications interact with it;however, I just learned I will need to purchase the full blown retail versions of vista ultimate and premium for each computer to use in a vm as eula does not allow cheaper versions to run in vm. It doesnt seem fair that microsoft should have me to rebuy the most expensive version of vista just because I dont want to install it as a host on each of the new pc's.

May seem off topic, but its things like this that drive me crazy with all the diiferent versions ---- just starting to learn restrictions as to different versions as some of these are more critical than you may think to end users. With xp pro and xp home, there was not a restriction to a particuliar use --- but think the new products are making new restrictions on the end use which we have yet to fully understand. I guess time will tell --- in the meantime i'm stuck with paying out some big bucks for the more expensive versions of vista just to use it in a vm
March 10, 2007 12:39:07 AM

Quote:
I'm not sure how windows activation got to be such a big issue or why apparently there seems to be such a big concern with illegal copies of windows.

My experience has been that small and medium sized businesses that don't even realize they are doing it are the worse culprits. I worked with a bank that put an OS image on over a 1,000 desktops not realizing that the PCs had no Windows license and that they only had a single corporate license for 5 user licenses - they thought Corporate meant the whole company had a license. I hadn't worked with them for more than a week and I quietly pointed out the issue to my manager - they looked into it and nearly fired the entire IT management over the project when they found out the costs they had to put out in 1 quarter to become legit. In the end, they simply told them not to do it in the future. I would believe that MS is looking for a way "to force" poorly trained IT people into compliance. The 1 or 2 users that break copyright is no big deal. Thousands at a time starts to become an issue. Too bad there is not a better way to target idiot department staff that we have probably all worked with at one time or another and not annoy people who are really trying to stay above the law.
March 10, 2007 2:05:02 AM

I wonder how wide spread the problem is in small or medium businesses as vista's high price may stop many businesses from upgrading there computers using there existing machines as microsoft has made vista to expensive. its not an option for my business as it is to costly and requires me to update all my hardware. It would seem the best bet would be not to upgrade - Of course your talking about businesses performing mass upgrades for existing desktops ----something that is very costly given vista's cost. Already, the Department of transportation has stated it will not upgrade any of its computers to vista negating ten's of thousands of upgrades because of the costs involved.

My main overall concern is that microsoft has made vista very expensive to the consumer and business user. Microsoft has also made the hardware very expensive because of drm requirements --- and this applies to business versions even though drm may not apply. Thus, the question is not necessarily a matter piracy, but the lock microsoft has on the pc market with regard to excessive pricing --- this is my concern.

I remember back in 1980's when dos was first on the market --- I would run out and buy every new version as it had something new --- price was not the issue as microsoft priced its upgrades very well back then. Not necessarily trying to argue that piracy is not problem, but am only saying that microsoft is overpricing its products in a country that heavily relies on the pc. Microsoft wields great power in the nations economy and can cause econonmic failure or prosperity of a number businesses across the country that rely on the pc. Microsoft over pricing its software and also increasing the cost of hardware (due to drm requirements) does not seem good for economic future of businesses that rely on the pc or the pc industry.
March 10, 2007 5:44:09 AM

'Cause he's sick. Can't you see his avatar is coughing? :lol: 

And on a sidenote, Vista Ultimate costs $199 for a legit copy. Even I could afford that with my vacation slush fund, and I'm a poor son of a gun.
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