The rise and fall of Hector's Reich

easyg

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Just for the heck of it, I decided to write a little op-ed type piece on AMD’s recent troubles. Please feel free to brutalize it :) Sorry, it's a little long....

“A lesson from history” – by EasyG

The fortunes of AMD in its struggle against Intel remind me not a little of the great German offensive against the Soviet Union in the summer of 1941: a military undertaking codenamed Operation Barbarossa. Leave to one side for a moment the ideological underpinnings of the Russo-German conflict, and what Barbarossa is illustrative of is the danger attendant upon a certain kind of success: of winning too much ground too quickly from a much larger opponent, while failing (or even having a plan) to deliver the knockout blow.

To begin with, Germany was a smaller country than the country it proposed to invade – smaller in terms of land area, population, manufacturing capacity, and the material resources available to it. What the Germans had on their side was technological superiority and a revolutionary tactical doctrine. It was the German belief in the technical superiority of their arms that led to the fateful decision to invade the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941.

In first phase of Barbarossa, the Germans quickly seized huge tracts of Soviet territory, while destroying literally hundreds of Russian formations in the process. The Soviets armies were caught by surprise, and were unable escape encirclement by the fast moving Panzer troops. They were systematically and ruthlessly destroyed. Land that had been Russian land for generations switched hands overnight. At their height, the Germans occupied a Soviet territory many times larger than Germany itself -- a jagged line from Leningrad in the north to Sebastopol in the south.

But there were troubling portent. At the beginning of the conflict, the German Panzers were undoubtedly superior to the Russian tanks. The correct employment of these technically superior tanks laid the foundations for the initial German successes. There were, however, rumors of new Russian models (T34 and KV) that would be more heavily armed and armored than any existing German models. The Germans, peculiarly convinced that the enemy would never emerge from his technological quagmire, were slow to respond with upgunned and more heavily armored models of their own.

Furthermore, the German were stretched across a long front hundreds of miles deep into Soviet territory. The German supply system threatened to buckle under the strain of supplying the Panzer divisions with the fuel, ammo, and material needed to wage war over so extended a territory. Besides for distance, there was the problem of integration. Simply put, the newly conquered territories could not be integrated into the German communications system overnight: it was no simple matter to ship a crate of 88mm ammunition from a factory in Munich to Smolensk in the war zone, as for one thing Russian and German trains ran on tracks of different gauges.

The German attack bogged down, and then in the winter of 1941 the Russians counter- attacked with devastating results. The Russians attacked en masse using their new tanks, and the situation which had existed in the summer of 1941 was now exactly reversed, with the Russians carrying the initiative and the Germans in a state of disorganization and disarray. Prior to the catastrophe, the best of the German battle commanders (Heinz Guderian ) had taken a cold hard look at the situation, and concluded the following:

1) the Germans had started the war by grossly underestimating the enemy’s vastly superior strategic reserves of men and material;
2) the Germans had also underestimated the Soviet capacity to adapt and to evolve, and indeed the Panzer armies had lost their initial technical superiority by not evolving themselves;
3) the Germans were extended over too long a front, which heightened the difficulties posed by points #1 and #2 above, as the Russians could attack with overwhelmingly superior forces at any point along that front with reasonable expectations of success

Guderian advocated limited strategic withdrawals to pre-selected positions chosen for their suitability for defensive warfare: a “shortening of lines,” or narrowing of the Russian offensive front, which at the same time would serve to relieve the strain to Germany’s over-extended systems of supply and command. He recognized that any decision to fight along an extended front served the Russians’ purpose while a shorter front blunted the Russian advantages in men, guns, and tanks. In a nutshell, Guderian argued that Germany would best be served by trading some land for some time, and that that time should be used to develop new weapons with which to continue the offensive under conditions more favorable to Germany.

In the end, though, Guderian was overruled by Hitler, who decided that Germany would not give up an inch of ground, but hold fast and “dig in.” This decision committed Germany to a war of attrition that it could not hope to win, since it meant squandering men and equipment in a fruitless attempt to hold on to exposed salients. The Germans would be slowly bled to death, and while the Russians would also bleed, attritional warfare suited the Russians since they had superior strategic resources with which to survive the bleeding out process.

Now flash forward to 2007: Germany’s situation on the Eastern Front in WWII is indeed uncannily similar to AMD’s situation today. AMD’s failure to correctly assess, and correctly prepare for, the logistical challenges attendant upon a deep and rapid penetration into a rival’s territory is reminiscent of Germany’s lack of strategic vision in preparing for Barbarossa. Hector Ruiz’s decision to hold on to market share at all costs, even at the expense of profitability, echoes the Hitlerian decision to hold onto every inch of captured territory regardless of consequences. And most importantly, AMD’s decision, much like Germany’s decision, to engage the enemy in a war of attrition could not have come at a worse time.

Perhaps there's still time for AMD take a lesson from Colonel General Guderian on the folly of wastefully expending resources in the stubborn attempt to defend territorial gains at any cost; and on the wisdom of coolly and judiciously trading territory for the time needed to retool, reequip, and ultimately resume the struggle against the old ideological adversary.
 

sickofsoyo

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well for one thing, the analogy is there. There is no reference to the Holocaust. He is just referring to the invasion of Russia by the Germans. He never said anything about jewish people or even hinted to anything like it. This is actually a good comparrison. The world war between semiconductor companies
 

slim142

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Just for the heck of it, I decided to write a little op-ed type piece on AMD’s recent troubles. Please feel free to brutalize it :) Sorry, it's a little long....

“A lesson from history” – by EasyG

The fortunes of AMD in its struggle against Intel remind me not a little of the great German offensive against the Soviet Union in the summer of 1941: a military undertaking codenamed Operation Barbarossa. Leave to one side for a moment the ideological underpinnings of the Russo-German conflict, and what Barbarossa is illustrative of is the danger attendant upon a certain kind of success: of winning too much ground too quickly from a much larger opponent, while failing (or even having a plan) to deliver the knockout blow.

To begin with, Germany was a smaller country than the country it proposed to invade – smaller in terms of land area, population, manufacturing capacity, and the material resources available to it. What the Germans had on their side was technological superiority and a revolutionary tactical doctrine. It was the German belief in the technical superiority of their arms that led to the fateful decision to invade the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941.

In first phase of Barbarossa, the Germans quickly seized huge tracts of Soviet territory, while destroying literally hundreds of Russian formations in the process. The Soviets armies were caught by surprise, and were unable escape encirclement by the fast moving Panzer troops. They were systematically and ruthlessly destroyed. Land that had been Russian land for generations switched hands overnight. At their height, the Germans occupied a Soviet territory many times larger than Germany itself -- a jagged line from Leningrad in the north to Sebastopol in the south.

But there were troubling portent. At the beginning of the conflict, the German Panzers were undoubtedly superior to the Russian tanks. The correct employment of these technically superior tanks laid the foundations for the initial German successes. There were, however, rumors of new Russian models (T34 and KV) that would be more heavily armed and armored than any existing German models. The Germans, peculiarly convinced that the enemy would never emerge from his technological quagmire, were slow to respond with upgunned and more heavily armored models of their own.

Furthermore, the German were stretched across a long front hundreds of miles deep into Soviet territory. The German supply system threatened to buckle under the strain of supplying the Panzer divisions with the fuel, ammo, and material needed to wage war over so extended a territory. Besides for distance, there was the problem of integration. Simply put, the newly conquered territories could not be integrated into the German communications system overnight: it was no simple matter to ship a crate of 88mm ammunition from a factory in Munich to Smolensk in the war zone, as for one thing Russian and German trains ran on tracks of different gauges.

The German attack bogged down, and then in the winter of 1941 the Russians counter- attacked with devastating results. The Russians attacked en masse using their new tanks, and the situation which had existed in the summer of 1941 was now exactly reversed, with the Russians carrying the initiative and the Germans in a state of disorganization and disarray. Prior to the catastrophe, the best of the German battle commanders (Heinz Guderian ) had taken a cold hard look at the situation, and concluded the following:

1) the Germans had started the war by grossly underestimating the enemy’s vastly superior strategic reserves of men and material;
2) the Germans had also underestimated the Soviet capacity to adapt and to evolve, and indeed the Panzer armies had lost their initial technical superiority by not evolving themselves;
3) the Germans were extended over too long a front, which heightened the difficulties posed by points #1 and #2 above, as the Russians could attack with overwhelmingly superior forces at any point along that front with reasonable expectations of success

Guderian advocated limited strategic withdrawals to pre-selected positions chosen for their suitability for defensive warfare: a “shortening of lines,” or narrowing of the Russian offensive front, which at the same time would serve to relieve the strain to Germany’s over-extended systems of supply and command. He recognized that any decision to fight along an extended front served the Russians’ purpose while a shorter front blunted the Russian advantages in men, guns, and tanks. In a nutshell, Guderian argued that Germany would best be served by trading some land for some time, and that that time should be used to develop new weapons with which to continue the offensive under conditions more favorable to Germany.

In the end, though, Guderian was overruled by Hitler, who decided that Germany would not give up an inch of ground, but hold fast and “dig in.” This decision committed Germany to a war of attrition that it could not hope to win, since it meant squandering men and equipment in a fruitless attempt to hold on to exposed salients. The Germans would be slowly bled to death, and while the Russians would also bleed, attritional warfare suited the Russians since they had superior strategic resources with which to survive the bleeding out process.

Now flash forward to 2007: Germany’s situation on the Eastern Front in WWII is indeed uncannily similar to AMD’s situation today. AMD’s failure to correctly assess, and correctly prepare for, the logistical challenges attendant upon a deep and rapid penetration into a rival’s territory is reminiscent of Germany’s lack of strategic vision in preparing for Barbarossa. Hector Ruiz’s decision to hold on to market share at all costs, even at the expense of profitability, echoes the Hitlerian decision to hold onto every inch of captured territory regardless of consequences. And most importantly, AMD’s decision, much like Germany’s decision, to engage the enemy in a war of attrition could not have come at a worse time.

Perhaps there's still time for AMD take a lesson from Colonel General Guderian on the folly of wastefully expending resources in the stubborn attempt to defend territorial gains at any cost; and on the wisdom of coolly and judiciously trading territory for the time needed to retool, reequip, and ultimately resume the struggle against the old ideological adversary.

Why did you have to compare such thing with AMD situations?

Whats the purpose of this? Most people know already where AMD is standing right now.
 

realzeus

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Excellent anaysis of the Eastern front strategic situation. When the T34 MBT and the JS1 and JS2 heavy BT came out it was clear that the Panzers had no chance whatsoever. Not to mention that a war of attrition against the soviets is like trying to bleed out Bill Gates. I can also see a clear parallel with the Intel-AMD situation. And in the end Intel will rule supreme; it's all but inevitable.
 

Glacier

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Whats the purpose of this? Most people know already where AMD is standing right now.

:D I'm guessing EasyG had too much free time, so this piece was written. Still, it is a nice piece of work. I'm afraid "Hector's Reich" will be over sooner than we think.
 

nruo

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and one more analogy :
the germans were able do develop new tanks (tigers) which on paper were superior to the newer soviet tanks (t34), but it was too late, and they didn't have the production capacity to produce enough of those to really affect the war. anyone said K10 ?
 

gr8mikey

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Good analogy to AMD's current predicament. I must admit that the parallels are somewhat striking.

I give you 5 stars for the very well thought out and well written perspective.
 

gr8mikey

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and one more analogy :
the germans were able do develop new tanks (tigers) which on paper were superior to the newer soviet tanks (t34), but it was too late, and they didn't have the production capacity to produce enough of those to really affect the war. anyone said K10 ?


Another excellent point. K10 looks great on paper but by most accounts is too little too late.
 

Mackle

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mine is a survivor of the Prescaust. 3.2 -> 3.6 on air with stock cooling, and only 48*

Thought I'd got my S478 Gallatin 3.4 to a stable 3.8something with 44°C idle, but running Company of Heroes makes it overheat after 30 minutes so had to drop it back down to 3.74 were it seems okay again.

If I had a better cooling solution I am sure I could do much better! :)


If the Gallatin normally runs a lot cooler than a Prescott, then just ignore me :lol:
 

corvetteguy

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I think this is a great anaolgy.

I also think it deserves a mention that the Russian casualties were something insane like 40:1 of the germans, and that the war cost the Russians 20 million people...
 

realzeus

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and one more analogy :
the germans were able do develop new tanks (tigers) which on paper were superior to the newer soviet tanks (t34), but it was too late, and they didn't have the production capacity to produce enough of those to really affect the war. anyone said K10 ?


Another excellent point. K10 looks great on paper but by most accounts is too little too late.


As I know tanks very well, I can concur that the Tiger was bigger and had greater armour than the T34 but it was not a T34 competitor, rather a Joseph Stalin 1 & 2 (henceforth JS1&2) competitor. The T34 was a main battle tank that had great mobility and firepower and was tactically used to overrun Vermacht troops with rapid advancements. It was not inferior to the Tiger I/II variants though as its greater mobility and low slung design made it a very difficult target. Moreover, the Tiger family had issues with their front engine configuration and the combustion of petrol that led to burnt Tigers even with relatively slight hits. The JS series though (renamed after Stalin's death as the T10) was a different beast altogether. Huge (the Tiger which was the war's 2nd largest tank was like a toy compared to it) and with unmatched armour and firepower the JS was a real behemoth that scared off enemy Panzers (by the way, Panzer means ''Tank'' in German and is not the codename of a certain type of tank). As it was slow and unmanouverable though it actually contributed to the Soviet triumph much less than the smaller but ultimately brilliant T34. These from an ex tank squad commander. :)

As for the processors... it's like that... the K10 (Tiger) is in all probability going to be inferior to the Pernyn (JS) but it is the smaller and nimbler C2S (T34) that will win the game with its massive market share.

Cheers.
 

r0x0r

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So after the war Germany rebuilt and became one of the world's largest economies.

Now compare modern day Germany to modern day Russia...
 

realzeus

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I think this is a great anaolgy.

I also think it deserves a mention that the Russian casualties were something insane like 40:1 of the germans, and that the war cost the Russians 20 million people...


Quite right so. Only that 14 million of them were civilians killed either by the Germans or by the NKVD (KGB's predecessor) or by starvation. As for the kill ratio it has to do with Stalin's initial numbness and later on with his insistence to keep doing things his way instead of the Generals' (a.k.a. the right) way. I can go on for hours regarding the missutilisation of Divisions and the bleeding of reserves, good think they had a lot of those. When he eventually let General Zukov (heralded as the greatest military genious of the war, even above Romel and Monty) run the show (even though Stalin remained the Generalissimo - the supreme commander) things changed dramatically.
 

turpit

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it deserves to be brutalized. AMD didnt kill 6 million jews. This is a bogus comparison at best. I couldnt read it all. The first paragraph killed it for me.

Vern, the russians under Stalin, the USs ally in WWII killed 12 million Jews, but history is writen by the victor, and the US gov couldnt publically condem russia as it did germany that would have been rather hypocritical.
 

sailer

Splendid
Its a good overall analogy, leaving out the politics of the matter, but you did leave out a couple things. Russia was helped immensely by imported military equipment from the U.S. and the air war made a dramactic turn as U.S. provided fighter planes replaced the Russian fighters, thus helping to cut the supply lines of the Germans. Like so many things in war. Its rarely any single thing, be it tanks or whatever, that turn the tide, but a combination of things which make the victory.

That said, I think AMD took on too big an enemy and at the same time counted too much on future products like the R600 series video cards and the K10 processors, neither of which has yet seen the light of day after months of waiting.
 

sailer

Splendid
AMD tried to grab too much too quickly, and p!ssed off a giant....

Toyota is a great example of how it should be done.... and I only use this because i have read other commentary from finanical analysts along this lines....

That reminds me of the quote of Admiral Yamamoto following the Pearl Harbor attack, "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve". AMD, with its lawsuit against Intel and other provocations did indeed awaken the sleeping giant of Intel.
 

realzeus

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Its a good overall analogy, leaving out tha politics of the matter, but you did leave out a couple things. Russia was helped immensely by imported military equipment from the U.S. and the air war made a dramactic turn as U.S. provided fighter planes replaced the Russian fighters, thus helping to cut the supply lines of the Germans. Like so many things in war. Its rarley any single thing, be it tanks or whatever, that turn the tide, but a combination of things which make the victory.

That said, I think AMD took on too big an enemy and at the same time counted too much on future products like the R600 series video cards and the K10 processors, neither of which has yet seen the light of day after months of waiting.



True. Then again Hitler outfoxed Stalin and despite the Molotov-Riebentrop agreement he attacked the USSR, an act you could argue as a snicky one. So it's fair game I guess since the Red Army was totally unprepared for war.
 

corvetteguy

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Its a good overall analogy, leaving out tha politics of the matter, but you did leave out a couple things. Russia was helped immensely by imported military equipment from the U.S. and the air war made a dramactic turn as U.S. provided fighter planes replaced the Russian fighters, thus helping to cut the supply lines of the Germans. Like so many things in war. Its rarley any single thing, be it tanks or whatever, that turn the tide, but a combination of things which make the victory.

That said, I think AMD took on too big an enemy and at the same time counted too much on future products like the R600 series video cards and the K10 processors, neither of which has yet seen the light of day after months of waiting.



True. Then again Hitler outfoxed Stalin and despite the Molotov-Riebentrop agreement he attacked the USSR, an act you could argue as a snicky one. So it's fair game I guess since the Red Army was totally unprepared for war.

Well, they both signed that treaty intending to break it, so Stalin was just a little slow.
 

Ranman68k

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Perhaps there's still time for AMD take a lesson from Colonel General Guderian on the folly of wastefully expending resources in the stubborn attempt to defend territorial gains at any cost; and on the wisdom of coolly and judiciously trading territory for the time needed to retool, reequip, and ultimately resume the struggle against the old ideological adversary.

What exactly is AMD wastingfully expending its resources on currently? Is it not trying to develop and deploy its next CPU architecture -- K10? What else would you have AMD spend its resources on?

Now AMD may be making little to no profit on its current line of K8 CPUs. Why? What other choice do they have? Who is going to buy an overpriced CPU? Should AMD just put them on a shelf and take a tax write-off? That is a sure fire way to give even more territory to the competitor. If AMD had not dropped its prices, then everyone would be jumping ship to the competition's platform. As long as people are buying AMD CPUs and respective platforms (even at a heavily discounted price) then when the new CPUs "finally" arrive... maybe... just maybe... they will have a base of users ready for upgrades.

Otherwise... Pretty good analogy.
 

Viperabyss

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and one more analogy :
the germans were able do develop new tanks (tigers) which on paper were superior to the newer soviet tanks (t34), but it was too late, and they didn't have the production capacity to produce enough of those to really affect the war. anyone said K10 ?


Another excellent point. K10 looks great on paper but by most accounts is too little too late.


As I know tanks very well, I can concur that the Tiger was bigger and had greater armour than the T34 but it was not a T34 competitor, rather a Joseph Stalin 1 & 2 (henceforth JS1&2) competitor. The T34 was a main battle tank that had great mobility and firepower and was tactically used to overrun Vermacht troops with rapid advancements. It was not inferior to the Tiger I/II variants though as its greater mobility and low slung design made it a very difficult target. Moreover, the Tiger family had issues with their front engine configuration and the combustion of petrol that led to burnt Tigers even with relatively slight hits. The JS series though (renamed after Stalin's death as the T10) was a different beast altogether. Huge (the Tiger which was the war's 2nd largest tank was like a toy compared to it) and with unmatched armour and firepower the JS was a real behemoth that scared off enemy Panzers (by the way, Panzer means ''Tank'' in German and is not the codename of a certain type of tank). As it was slow and unmanouverable though it actually contributed to the Soviet triumph much less than the smaller but ultimately brilliant T34. These from an ex tank squad commander. :)

As for the processors... it's like that... the K10 (Tiger) is in all probability going to be inferior to the Pernyn (JS) but it is the smaller and nimbler C2S (T34) that will win the game with its massive market share.

Cheers.
I would agree with you.
Tiger is although known for its heavy armor and armament, it is also well-known for its mechanical breakdowns. After the Battle of the Buldge, most Tigers were being used as defensive turrets, rather than offensive tanks.

In this case, K10 will be utterly formidable. However, it'll also suffer from heat / power consumption problems. It is probably the reason why AMD will only clock them as high as 2.6Ghz (2.5 Ghz for this year).

It also means that K10 will only serve as the flotation device for AMD, rather than an offensive punch to take back the market share.

EDIT: No offense to anyone, but I would really hope K10 will come out better than we're predicting. We really need competition in this industry. :p
 

captain_triton

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I think its a petty asasociation for the atrocities commited by the hitler regime. And I think nazis would rather kill alot of AMD non arians than use their tech.

I wouldnt compare Intel to Hitlers riech and theres alot more similarities in the conquest for control. I just think its in bad taste for the horrific things done by the german government at the time.

An emotional opinion that can be argued against. Everyone remembers Hitler as being evil but frankly, Stalin did just as bad if not worse in many cases.

A very well written essay by the way. Maybe someone should send it to this Henrich guy and perhaps he can learn from history and change his strategy accordingly.