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x1650 vs. x1950

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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April 28, 2007 12:52:39 PM

Last question I ask regarding this, I apologise massively but I'm ready to order a new graphics card and can't decide which one is best to get for my circumstances.

x1650: Around £70 including P&P, a bit better than my 6800 maybe.

x1950: Around £135 including P&P, a lot better than my 6800, but I'm worried my AMD Barton 2500+ and 1GB RAM won't let me get anywhere near enough of it, and I'll probably get a new PC in the forseeable future.

Or I could always pickup a cheap second hand 6800 GT off eBay which would probably be cheaper than the two and still a bit better than my current card :)  I should probably also note I'm upgrading because I have to (this card makes funny noises), not because the 6800 doesn't do what I need it to :) 

More about : x1650 x1950

April 28, 2007 3:09:38 PM

Yup, I think I might go for the x1650, just tried to sort my CPU cooling issues out without any luck at all, even without overclocking it it's running at 57 degrees and all I have open is Firefox! :/ 
April 28, 2007 3:16:44 PM

I think the X1650 is a better buy for your PC.
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April 28, 2007 4:24:10 PM

Almost certain I'll go with the x1650 thinking about it now :) 

I know Tacos, it's been running like this for ages without any crashes whatsoever, but I've no idea what to do to bring the temperature down, I've just tried re-applying the thermal paste without any luck at all.

The CPU looks in pretty bad shape though, it has the chip on the die (or whatever it's called) and one of the four corner pads has broken away a bit too, I assume both are a result of me struggling with this absolutely ridiculous heat sink that's almost impossible to put on easily. It's running at 62 degrees now though and all I'm doing is watching a video ;_;
April 28, 2007 4:31:48 PM

The heatsink I have is fine I think, it wasn't particularly expensive but I've been reading some reviews of it recently and people have reported very good things, with a setup the same as mine it runs the CPU generally below 40 degrees so I guess the problem is with my CPU itself, and to get another one is going to cost £40 and there's no guarantee it's going to be any better than the one already have since they don't make them new any more :( 
April 28, 2007 4:37:04 PM

Yeah, I'm probably going to get a new PC within the next six months ago, in fact I was very close to buying one today but decided I don't really need one just yet :)  Worst case scenario is the chip fries and I have to buy a new one which wouldn't be a massive problem, unless it can take the motherboard with it? I don't know how to explain it, but I don't think it'd be a good idea to buy a new CPU because this one is getting too hot if the absolute worst case scenario is to just buy a new PC anyway :) 
April 28, 2007 4:49:26 PM

I would also go with the 1650 xt card. It's a pretty decent mid card and there is no need really to invest in a better GPU if you're thinking about an upgrade in the short term.
April 28, 2007 4:58:36 PM

Good call, huge thanks once again for all of your replies btw guys, especially Tacos, really appreciate it. :) 
April 28, 2007 7:09:59 PM

Quote:
Antec Solo Quiet Mini Tower Case - Piano Black/Silver - No PSU ... £45.49
LG GSA-H42NBAL 18x DVD±RW/RAM Black - Bare drive ... £15.99
Maxtor STM3320820AS 320gb 7200RPM SATAII 8MB Cache - OEM ... £42.54
EVGA 8800GTS SuperClocked 320MB DDR3 DVI PCI-E ... £169.99
Corsair HX Series 620W Modular PSU - ATX12V v2.2 APFC ... £83.97
Crucial 2GB kit (1GBx2) DDR2 PC2-5300 CL=5 UNBUFFERED NON-ECC DDR2-667 1.8V ... £55.31
Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 1.86ghz Socket 775 FSB800 2MB Cache Retail Boxed Processor ... £63.88
Asus P5B Deluxe WIFI Socket 775 Core 2 Duo P965 FSB1066 DDR2 SATA Audio ATX ... £96.90

Cart Total: £574.07

;_;

Plus VAT and shipping of course, but still hella tempting. Oh, and £10 off using Google checkout lolz.

Must... resist... ;_;
April 28, 2007 9:25:09 PM

Yeah, I don't think there's anywhere near as much difference between the AMD and Intel chips as some people like to make out (usually Intel fanboys ;p) but the C2D does edge it slightly which is enough to mean my new PC will probably be one of those, but we'll see :)  Think I'll stick with this one for now!
May 2, 2007 5:41:10 PM

Just got my new card, w00t! Running quite well I think, going to try some games etc now and see how it performs.

One final question; can anyone recommend some software to control the fans speeds etc? I haven't tried the ATI control panel 'cos I've heard bad things and generally don't like 'bloated' software so it'd be great if there was a decent/lightweight program that'd sort the fan speeds. Cheers!
May 3, 2007 8:57:16 AM

Brilliant cheers, I think I'll go with ATI Tool because my case fan already runs very quietly, and my CPU fan has it's own hardware fan speed control thing. ATI Tool looks neat!

One thing I'm having issues with at the moment is the performance of the card. I didn't have time last night to do any proper tests but the things I did try were massively disappointing.

I ran Aquamark as a basic performance test; my 6800 (Asus V9999) got a score of ~46xx and my new x1650 only got a score of ~37xx. No problem I thought, maybe it's just that particular software, so I loaded up Half-Life 2 - exactly the same problems. It actually runs worse than my old card which makes no sense at all.

In the benchmarks I was reading the x1650 (256mb DDR3) came out above the 6800GT almost every time, and as far as I know the 6800GT was a fair bit better than my old card (128mb DDR) so this should be even better again. I installed the latest drivers from the ATI website from the start so I don't think it's a driver issue. :( 
May 3, 2007 10:14:59 AM

It seems like newer cards offload more onto the CPU for some reason. If I were recommending a card for you to buy, I'd have recommended an 8800GTS. Best bang for the buck IMO. Right now there really isn't that big of need to buy another card, and by the time someone feels a need to upgrade there will be better and cheaper cards. My X1950GT is clocked higher than my old ATI X1900 AIW card was, but the X1950GT got worse benchmarks. I was confused as well, and the only possible explanation is that it's more CPU dependent or the drivers suck.
May 3, 2007 11:51:55 AM

Damn, that sucks. My CPU is dire so I guess that'd explain it. I would of got a 8800GTS for sure if my motherboard supported PCI-E :( 
May 3, 2007 1:20:47 PM

Thinking about it though, surely it should run at least as fast as my old card? Like I said, in every benchmark I've seen it's come out considerably ahead, surely my CPU wouldn't cripple it that much?
May 3, 2007 2:18:39 PM

I dunno, what kind of difference are we talking about? I was getting a couple of hundred lower in 3DMark when I "upgraded" to my X1950GT. I believe the 8600 and 8500's are designed for video in an older system or for newer non-gaming systems. They call them "mid-ranged" but really I think they're next generation low-range cards and the 8800's are more the midranged. We should see continually dropping prices to where the 8800's run for under $200 within a year hopefully.
May 3, 2007 2:44:09 PM

Quote:
My X1950GT is clocked higher than my old ATI X1900 AIW card was, but the X1950GT got worse benchmarks. I was confused as well, and the only possible explanation is that it's more CPU dependent or the drivers suck.


Those two cards don't have the same GPU, dude.

The explanation is that the X1950 GT (and X1950 PRO) has 32 pixel shaders, and the X1900 AIW has 48 pixel shaders... you downgraded to the GT.

You'd have gotten much better performance by simply overclocking that X1900 AIW card. It would have scaled nicely with all that sweet shader power.

Ask us before upgrading to your next card! A better card should never decrease in performance, at worst if the CPU is bottlenecking the performance gains will be smaller compared to a faster CPU... worst case scenario, if the game is completely CPU bottlenecked, the framerates will stay the same. But they shouldn't go down... :) 
May 3, 2007 2:57:04 PM

lol, that was a bad move :p 
May 3, 2007 4:24:52 PM

Hmm, I see, cheers. Still a bit confused by all of this though, I thought this x1650 was supposed to be competing with the 7600? It really, really should smash my vanilla 6800 :( 
May 3, 2007 4:41:27 PM

Majorly disappointed with this card based on first impressions really, the fan actually sounds awful at low speeds (like a low pitched drone noise) and the next speed up sounds like an incredibly noisy CD drive. And that's discounting the fact it seems to really underperform compared to my old (apparently very) inferior card!

Even ATI tool screwed up, I set to find the maximum GPU/MEM speeds and it was pushing the limits up, there were heaps of artefacts on the screen at one point but just said "no errors" and kept on going 'til the card temporarily died and I had to restart the computer :/ 
May 3, 2007 9:00:09 PM

Quote:
My X1950GT is clocked higher than my old ATI X1900 AIW card was, but the X1950GT got worse benchmarks. I was confused as well, and the only possible explanation is that it's more CPU dependent or the drivers suck.


Those two cards don't have the same GPU, dude.

The explanation is that the X1950 GT (and X1950 PRO) has 32 pixel shaders, and the X1900 AIW has 48 pixel shaders... you downgraded to the GT.

You'd have gotten much better performance by simply overclocking that X1900 AIW card. It would have scaled nicely with all that sweet shader power.

Ask us before upgrading to your next card! A better card should never decrease in performance, at worst if the CPU is bottlenecking the performance gains will be smaller compared to a faster CPU... worst case scenario, if the game is completely CPU bottlenecked, the framerates will stay the same. But they shouldn't go down... :) 

Ahh, that explains it. Interesting because I made posts asking about this before but all the "experts" on here either didn't bother looking into my problem before replying or really had no idea. Still, I sold my X1900 AIW for quite a bit more than what I paid for it, and bought the X1950GT for not too much. I plan on upgrading it to an 8800GTS sometime anyway.
May 3, 2007 9:00:57 PM

Actually seems to be alright now thanks after I've had a play around with it! Was tempted by an x1950 but really no point since I'll be moving to a PCI-E system sometime soonish.

ATI Tool really is a lovely piece of kit though, I had my eyes firmly set on a 8800 as my next card but I think I'll wait and see what ATI produce just so I can use this software! It took me a little while to find the options I was after, but now it's overclocked to 695 for the GPU core and 859 for the memory, that's after dropping it quite a bit from what ATI tool said was the maximum, and it's running at a fairly decent temperature and without any artifacts at all, even after running the artefact test for a good few minutes.

Most importantly I've changed the fan speeds too, basically any temperature below 63 degrees and it'll run at 43% which is lovely and quiet, and anything above that it really kicks in quite heavily so when I'm playing games the temperature shouldn't get very high at all, after just running all of these overclock tests it never went above 68 degrees, I've just finished and it's shot straight back down to 58 degrees and is running very quietly as I'm posting this.

No idea still what the performance will be like, I assume I'll see quite a considerable difference though since I'm running it at much higher speeds now, either way it's very quiet, it's over clocked well and I've suddenly gone from hating this card to actually rather liking it in the space of around 10 minutes, gotta love that ATI Tool!
May 3, 2007 9:18:11 PM

ATI tool will work with nVidia cards too. :wink:
May 4, 2007 7:44:44 AM

Oh, neat! :)  thanks
May 4, 2007 1:56:38 PM

Quote:
Interesting because I made posts asking about this before but all the "experts" on here either didn't bother looking into my problem before replying or really had no idea.


Sorry mate, I must have missed that one. :) 

Well, the 8800 will serve you well, for sure.
!