Samsung's response to HLP4663 audio sync issue

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

In spite of all the complaints about the Samsung audio sync issue, I bought
a HLP4663 at Circuit City after being assured the issue had been resolved.

It hasn't. Video and internal audio lag behind external stereo speakers on
non-HD signals. If I play internal and external speakers I get the echo
I've heard so much about.

Before taking it back I thought I would call Samsung. They told me they
have a new sound board that takes care of it and a tech would call me to
schedule a repair. This surprised me since I had heard Samsung
couldn't/wouldn't fix this problem. I will post a follow up after Samsung
calls me back (they said today).

Lew
18 answers Last reply
More about samsung response hlp4663 audio sync issue
  1. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 19:32:44 GMT, Lew wrote:

    > In spite of all the complaints about the Samsung audio sync issue, I bought
    > a HLP4663 at Circuit City after being assured the issue had been resolved.
    >
    > It hasn't. Video and internal audio lag behind external stereo speakers on
    > non-HD signals. If I play internal and external speakers I get the echo
    > I've heard so much about.
    >
    > Before taking it back I thought I would call Samsung. They told me they
    > have a new sound board that takes care of it and a tech would call me to
    > schedule a repair. This surprised me since I had heard Samsung
    > couldn't/wouldn't fix this problem. I will post a follow up after Samsung
    > calls me back (they said today).
    >
    > Lew

    Turns out I talked to Samsung's authorized repair facility in my area, not
    Samsung. Samsung told them: Internal audio is delayed to match video
    delay but external audio feed is NOT delayed. Samsung suggests buying a
    new surround sound system with audio delay built in. Translated, if your
    input signal is not HD or progressive scan, (in my case, non-HD Dish
    Network), you will have sync problems if you use an external audio source
    such as a stereo or home theater audio system unless your system has audio
    delay.

    For me, this is not an option, so it's back to Circuit City for the LG
    RU44SZ63D.

    Lew
  2. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    Lew wrote:
    > On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 19:32:44 GMT, Lew wrote:
    >
    >
    >>In spite of all the complaints about the Samsung audio sync issue, I bought
    >>a HLP4663 at Circuit City after being assured the issue had been resolved.
    >>
    >>It hasn't. Video and internal audio lag behind external stereo speakers on
    >>non-HD signals. If I play internal and external speakers I get the echo
    >>I've heard so much about.
    >>
    >>Before taking it back I thought I would call Samsung. They told me they
    >>have a new sound board that takes care of it and a tech would call me to
    >>schedule a repair. This surprised me since I had heard Samsung
    >>couldn't/wouldn't fix this problem. I will post a follow up after Samsung
    >>calls me back (they said today).
    >>
    >>Lew
    >
    >
    > Turns out I talked to Samsung's authorized repair facility in my area, not
    > Samsung. Samsung told them: Internal audio is delayed to match video
    > delay but external audio feed is NOT delayed. Samsung suggests buying a
    > new surround sound system with audio delay built in. Translated, if your
    > input signal is not HD or progressive scan, (in my case, non-HD Dish
    > Network), you will have sync problems if you use an external audio source
    > such as a stereo or home theater audio system unless your system has audio
    > delay.

    Samsung fixed my set for this problem. They replaced two boards and the
    problem disappeared. However, my set was an HLN, not an HLP. This fix
    is available under warranty to any owner - just call Samsung support.

    Keep in mind that there are many places along the transmission path
    where the audio and video can lose synchronization. It's quite possible
    that you are observing a problem that is already in the signal when it
    reaches you.

    In any event, good luck getting it straightened out. If it is in the
    original signal, a delay in your receiver is the only thing that will
    fix it. Buying a different set won't help.
  3. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    I've been considering the Samsung DLP's but if this audio delay problem
    really exists then I'm not about to replace my Yamaha 5.1 super sound
    system.
    I have DirecTV and use the pcm audio connection to the Yamaha. I like to run
    the TV speakers at the same time.

    Is this a problem with all hdtv's? Or just the Sammy's?

    Hal.

    >
    > Turns out I talked to Samsung's authorized repair facility in my area, not
    > Samsung. Samsung told them: Internal audio is delayed to match video
    > delay but external audio feed is NOT delayed. Samsung suggests buying a
    > new surround sound system with audio delay built in. Translated, if your
    > input signal is not HD or progressive scan, (in my case, non-HD Dish
    > Network), you will have sync problems if you use an external audio source
    > such as a stereo or home theater audio system unless your system has audio
    > delay.
    >
    > For me, this is not an option, so it's back to Circuit City for the LG
    > RU44SZ63D.
    >
    > Lew
  4. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 01:06:59 GMT, Hal wrote:

    > I've been considering the Samsung DLP's but if this audio delay problem
    > really exists then I'm not about to replace my Yamaha 5.1 super sound
    > system.
    > I have DirecTV and use the pcm audio connection to the Yamaha. I like to run
    > the TV speakers at the same time.
    >
    > Is this a problem with all hdtv's? Or just the Sammy's?
    >
    > Hal.
    >
    >>
    >> Turns out I talked to Samsung's authorized repair facility in my area, not
    >> Samsung. Samsung told them: Internal audio is delayed to match video
    >> delay but external audio feed is NOT delayed. Samsung suggests buying a
    >> new surround sound system with audio delay built in. Translated, if your
    >> input signal is not HD or progressive scan, (in my case, non-HD Dish
    >> Network), you will have sync problems if you use an external audio source
    >> such as a stereo or home theater audio system unless your system has audio
    >> delay.
    >>
    >> For me, this is not an option, so it's back to Circuit City for the LG
    >> RU44SZ63D.
    >>
    >> Lew

    I think video lag is just a problem with DLP type HDTVs. With my system,
    when I run the TV speakers and my stereo, I get an echo. If what I was
    told today is correct, getting sound boards replaced won't solve the
    problem.

    This only happens on signals that have to be converted such as non-HD cable
    or satellite channels. HDTV channels and DVDs don't have a problem. Maybe
    my satellite/converter/stereo setup makes it worse. The tech who heard it
    over the phone said he hadn't heard an echo that bad.

    I haven't heard of any audio problems on other DLP brands. Maybe they
    compensate for the lag in a different way.

    Lew
  5. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 20:12:48 -0500, Jim Gilliland wrote:

    > Lew wrote:
    >> On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 19:32:44 GMT, Lew wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>In spite of all the complaints about the Samsung audio sync issue, I bought
    >>>a HLP4663 at Circuit City after being assured the issue had been resolved.
    >>>
    >>>It hasn't. Video and internal audio lag behind external stereo speakers on
    >>>non-HD signals. If I play internal and external speakers I get the echo
    >>>I've heard so much about.
    >>>
    >>>Before taking it back I thought I would call Samsung. They told me they
    >>>have a new sound board that takes care of it and a tech would call me to
    >>>schedule a repair. This surprised me since I had heard Samsung
    >>>couldn't/wouldn't fix this problem. I will post a follow up after Samsung
    >>>calls me back (they said today).
    >>>
    >>>Lew
    >>
    >>
    >> Turns out I talked to Samsung's authorized repair facility in my area, not
    >> Samsung. Samsung told them: Internal audio is delayed to match video
    >> delay but external audio feed is NOT delayed. Samsung suggests buying a
    >> new surround sound system with audio delay built in. Translated, if your
    >> input signal is not HD or progressive scan, (in my case, non-HD Dish
    >> Network), you will have sync problems if you use an external audio source
    >> such as a stereo or home theater audio system unless your system has audio
    >> delay.
    >
    > Samsung fixed my set for this problem. They replaced two boards and the
    > problem disappeared. However, my set was an HLN, not an HLP. This fix
    > is available under warranty to any owner - just call Samsung support.
    >
    > Keep in mind that there are many places along the transmission path
    > where the audio and video can lose synchronization. It's quite possible
    > that you are observing a problem that is already in the signal when it
    > reaches you.
    >
    > In any event, good luck getting it straightened out. If it is in the
    > original signal, a delay in your receiver is the only thing that will
    > fix it. Buying a different set won't help.

    I never had a sync problem with my old 26" TV and my stereo and they were
    hooked up exactly the same way.

    Samsung has offered to replace my sound boards even though they don't think
    it will help. Maybe I'll call them tomorrow and have them do it anyway.
    If it worked for you, maybe it will work for me. If it doesn't, I have 30
    days to take it back. Thanks for the input.

    Lew
  6. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    "Lew" <notme@notmindspring.com> wrote in message
    news:13dk8aa4oj58k.mjcx73vq8b4z.dlg@40tude.net...
    > On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 20:12:48 -0500, Jim Gilliland wrote:
    >
    > > Lew wrote:
    > >> On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 19:32:44 GMT, Lew wrote:
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>>In spite of all the complaints about the Samsung audio sync issue, I
    bought
    > >>>a HLP4663 at Circuit City after being assured the issue had been
    resolved.
    > >>>
    > >>>It hasn't. Video and internal audio lag behind external stereo
    speakers on
    > >>>non-HD signals. If I play internal and external speakers I get the
    echo
    > >>>I've heard so much about.
    > >>>
    > >>>Before taking it back I thought I would call Samsung. They told me
    they
    > >>>have a new sound board that takes care of it and a tech would call me
    to
    > >>>schedule a repair. This surprised me since I had heard Samsung
    > >>>couldn't/wouldn't fix this problem. I will post a follow up after
    Samsung
    > >>>calls me back (they said today).
    > >>>
    > >>>Lew
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> Turns out I talked to Samsung's authorized repair facility in my area,
    not
    > >> Samsung. Samsung told them: Internal audio is delayed to match video
    > >> delay but external audio feed is NOT delayed. Samsung suggests buying
    a
    > >> new surround sound system with audio delay built in. Translated, if
    your
    > >> input signal is not HD or progressive scan, (in my case, non-HD Dish
    > >> Network), you will have sync problems if you use an external audio
    source
    > >> such as a stereo or home theater audio system unless your system has
    audio
    > >> delay.
    > >
    > > Samsung fixed my set for this problem. They replaced two boards and the
    > > problem disappeared. However, my set was an HLN, not an HLP. This fix
    > > is available under warranty to any owner - just call Samsung support.
    > >
    > > Keep in mind that there are many places along the transmission path
    > > where the audio and video can lose synchronization. It's quite possible
    > > that you are observing a problem that is already in the signal when it
    > > reaches you.
    > >
    > > In any event, good luck getting it straightened out. If it is in the
    > > original signal, a delay in your receiver is the only thing that will
    > > fix it. Buying a different set won't help.
    >
    > I never had a sync problem with my old 26" TV and my stereo and they were
    > hooked up exactly the same way.
    >
    > Samsung has offered to replace my sound boards even though they don't
    think
    > it will help. Maybe I'll call them tomorrow and have them do it anyway.
    > If it worked for you, maybe it will work for me. If it doesn't, I have 30
    > days to take it back. Thanks for the input.
    >
    > Lew

    Sound sync problems happen with many systems. The problem starts because of
    the difference in time between uncompressing DIGITAL video and audio. Since
    video takes much longer to uncompress due to it's complexity it takes longer
    to display. This was recognized when the HD standard was developed and HD
    transmitters delay the sound by a known number of ms and in the standard
    there is a known number of ms delay for the TV to delay the sound so that
    the sound and picture are in sync.

    If the Manufacturer uses a faster CPU/system for their decompression or
    manage to develop a faster algorithm they need to reduce the sound delay on
    their end and the converse is true. This is why most sound sync problems
    occur in the device that is uncompressing the HD signal i.e.: the set top
    box or cable box NOT the TV. Customer hear about the sound sync issue and
    assume it's the TV. So far, in my experience, most have been the cable box.

    Compounding the above is the difference in work that the digital board has
    to do with various inputs to buffer and process a signal. The Ant-in and
    composite video inputs require more work/time to display a picture than the
    component inputs do. So there is a difference in the time delay required
    for each input type. Samsung had a fixed delay on their early sets (HLN and
    early HLM) and had to release a new digital board that had adjustable sound
    delay. Later models (HLP) have this as a service adjustment of between 1-3
    ms The Set doesn't have different delay settings for each input type so
    there can be a slight defense in sync. We are talking about 1ms here. Only
    the most critical gamer with his face in the screen should be bothered by
    this. The simple cure is to use the component inputs for everything.
  7. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 06:07:26 -0500, Jeff Rigby wrote:

    <snip>


    >
    > Sound sync problems happen with many systems. The problem starts because of
    > the difference in time between uncompressing DIGITAL video and audio. Since
    > video takes much longer to uncompress due to it's complexity it takes longer
    > to display. This was recognized when the HD standard was developed and HD
    > transmitters delay the sound by a known number of ms and in the standard
    > there is a known number of ms delay for the TV to delay the sound so that
    > the sound and picture are in sync.
    >
    > If the Manufacturer uses a faster CPU/system for their decompression or
    > manage to develop a faster algorithm they need to reduce the sound delay on
    > their end and the converse is true. This is why most sound sync problems
    > occur in the device that is uncompressing the HD signal i.e.: the set top
    > box or cable box NOT the TV. Customer hear about the sound sync issue and
    > assume it's the TV. So far, in my experience, most have been the cable box.
    >
    > Compounding the above is the difference in work that the digital board has
    > to do with various inputs to buffer and process a signal. The Ant-in and
    > composite video inputs require more work/time to display a picture than the
    > component inputs do. So there is a difference in the time delay required
    > for each input type. Samsung had a fixed delay on their early sets (HLN and
    > early HLM) and had to release a new digital board that had adjustable sound
    > delay. Later models (HLP) have this as a service adjustment of between 1-3
    > ms The Set doesn't have different delay settings for each input type so
    > there can be a slight defense in sync. We are talking about 1ms here. Only
    > the most critical gamer with his face in the screen should be bothered by
    > this. The simple cure is to use the component inputs for everything.

    My problem isn't with different inputs. It's what the TV does with the
    sound after all that conversion. It sends a compensated (delayed) signal
    to the internal speakers but not to the external feed. When I'm watching
    Fox News with my stereo on, sometimes I notice the sound slightly before
    the lips move. When I have both stereo and TV speakers on, there is an
    echo. When just the TV speakers are on, I don't notice the sync problem.

    As for it being 1-3ms, I had the Samsung tech listening on the phone and he
    said the echo was quite noticable. I'm sure a lot has to do with my setup.
    My Dish receiver doesn't have component outs so I can't use component
    inputs.

    You're probably right about most people not being bothered. Last night my
    wife and son told me they loved the TV and didn't want me to take it back.
    The sync problem doesn't occur with my DVD player (DVI input) and watching
    movies is mostly when we use the stereo. I guess I'll keep it.
    Everything's going to be HD in a year or so anyway.

    Lew
  8. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    Lew wrote:
    >
    > My problem isn't with different inputs. It's what the TV does with the
    > sound after all that conversion. It sends a compensated (delayed) signal
    > to the internal speakers but not to the external feed. When I'm watching
    > Fox News with my stereo on, sometimes I notice the sound slightly before
    > the lips move. When I have both stereo and TV speakers on, there is an
    > echo. When just the TV speakers are on, I don't notice the sync problem.

    I wouldn't recommend running both sets of speakers at once. The sync
    issue is only one of many reasons not to do that. The speakers in my
    Samsung are never used. All sound comes through my 5.1 receiver.
  9. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    "Jim Gilliland" <usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote in message
    news:S96dnX2kSpuBcC3cRVn-ug@adelphia.com...
    > Lew wrote:
    >>
    >> My problem isn't with different inputs. It's what the TV does with the
    >> sound after all that conversion. It sends a compensated (delayed) signal
    >> to the internal speakers but not to the external feed. When I'm watching
    >> Fox News with my stereo on, sometimes I notice the sound slightly before
    >> the lips move. When I have both stereo and TV speakers on, there is an
    >> echo. When just the TV speakers are on, I don't notice the sync problem.
    >
    > I wouldn't recommend running both sets of speakers at once. The sync
    > issue is only one of many reasons not to do that. The speakers in my
    > Samsung are never used. All sound comes through my 5.1 receiver.

    I would like to see manufacturers offer HD monitors with no speakers. I
    think they would look better and would fit in smaller enclosures. One thing
    I like about the Sharp Aquos HD monitors is that the speakers can be
    removed.

    Ed
  10. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    In article <BdadnRacv7Hb1C3cRVn-ig@comcast.com> "Jeff Rigby" <jffg2@comcast.net> writes:

    > Samsung had a fixed delay on their early sets (HLN and
    >early HLM) and had to release a new digital board that had adjustable sound
    >delay. Later models (HLP) have this as a service adjustment of between 1-3
    >ms

    1 - 3 msec? That is equivalent to sitting 1.1 to 3.3 feet farther from the
    set. (The speed of sound in air is about 1100 feet per second in normal indoor
    conditions.)

    Such a short delay would seem pretty worthless.

    Alan
  11. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    Any ideas which systems have this audio delay feature ?
    "Lew" <notme@notmindspring.com> wrote in message
    news:1szahl33yv5zu.nrhtifg993lb.dlg@40tude.net...
    > On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 01:06:59 GMT, Hal wrote:
    >
    >> I've been considering the Samsung DLP's but if this audio delay problem
    >> really exists then I'm not about to replace my Yamaha 5.1 super sound
    >> system.
    >> I have DirecTV and use the pcm audio connection to the Yamaha. I like to
    >> run
    >> the TV speakers at the same time.
    >>
    >> Is this a problem with all hdtv's? Or just the Sammy's?
    >>
    >> Hal.
    >>
    >>>
    >>> Turns out I talked to Samsung's authorized repair facility in my area,
    >>> not
    >>> Samsung. Samsung told them: Internal audio is delayed to match video
    >>> delay but external audio feed is NOT delayed. Samsung suggests buying a
    >>> new surround sound system with audio delay built in. Translated, if
    >>> your
    >>> input signal is not HD or progressive scan, (in my case, non-HD Dish
    >>> Network), you will have sync problems if you use an external audio
    >>> source
    >>> such as a stereo or home theater audio system unless your system has
    >>> audio
    >>> delay.
    >>>
    >>> For me, this is not an option, so it's back to Circuit City for the LG
    >>> RU44SZ63D.
    >>>
    >>> Lew
    >
    > I think video lag is just a problem with DLP type HDTVs. With my system,
    > when I run the TV speakers and my stereo, I get an echo. If what I was
    > told today is correct, getting sound boards replaced won't solve the
    > problem.
    >
    > This only happens on signals that have to be converted such as non-HD
    > cable
    > or satellite channels. HDTV channels and DVDs don't have a problem.
    > Maybe
    > my satellite/converter/stereo setup makes it worse. The tech who heard it
    > over the phone said he hadn't heard an echo that bad.
    >
    > I haven't heard of any audio problems on other DLP brands. Maybe they
    > compensate for the lag in a different way.
    >
    > Lew
  12. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    "Jim Gilliland" <usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote in message
    news:S96dnX2kSpuBcC3cRVn-ug@adelphia.com...
    > Lew wrote:
    >>
    >> My problem isn't with different inputs. It's what the TV does with the
    >> sound after all that conversion. It sends a compensated (delayed) signal
    >> to the internal speakers but not to the external feed. When I'm watching
    >> Fox News with my stereo on, sometimes I notice the sound slightly before
    >> the lips move. When I have both stereo and TV speakers on, there is an
    >> echo. When just the TV speakers are on, I don't notice the sync problem.
    >
    > I wouldn't recommend running both sets of speakers at once. The sync
    > issue is only one of many reasons not to do that. The speakers in my
    > Samsung are never used. All sound comes through my 5.1 receiver.

    That's true, but I think he was running both speakers just to help
    illustrate how out of sync one output was.

    Also, I'd say that for such a delay to be audible as such it would have to
    be a LOT more than 1-3ms. It's almost certainly at least in the tens of
    milliseconds, and probably well over 100ms (though I can't really say
    without hearing it myself). It's understandable that digital video
    processing and decompression takes some time, but overlooking that all the
    outputs should be synchronized with the video (and with each other) is the
    kind of dumb engineering mistake that kind of bothers people who have spent
    thousands of dollars on the product. :)
  13. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:47:21 GMT, Matthew Vaughan wrote:

    > "Jim Gilliland" <usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote in message
    > news:S96dnX2kSpuBcC3cRVn-ug@adelphia.com...
    >> Lew wrote:
    >>>
    >>> My problem isn't with different inputs. It's what the TV does with the
    >>> sound after all that conversion. It sends a compensated (delayed) signal
    >>> to the internal speakers but not to the external feed. When I'm watching
    >>> Fox News with my stereo on, sometimes I notice the sound slightly before
    >>> the lips move. When I have both stereo and TV speakers on, there is an
    >>> echo. When just the TV speakers are on, I don't notice the sync problem.
    >>
    >> I wouldn't recommend running both sets of speakers at once. The sync
    >> issue is only one of many reasons not to do that. The speakers in my
    >> Samsung are never used. All sound comes through my 5.1 receiver.
    >
    > That's true, but I think he was running both speakers just to help
    > illustrate how out of sync one output was.
    >
    > Also, I'd say that for such a delay to be audible as such it would have to
    > be a LOT more than 1-3ms. It's almost certainly at least in the tens of
    > milliseconds, and probably well over 100ms (though I can't really say
    > without hearing it myself). It's understandable that digital video
    > processing and decompression takes some time, but overlooking that all the
    > outputs should be synchronized with the video (and with each other) is the
    > kind of dumb engineering mistake that kind of bothers people who have spent
    > thousands of dollars on the product. :)

    Exactly my point. The thing that bothered me the most was Samsung's
    solution: buy a new home theater system with audio delay.

    Lew
  14. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    Somewhere around Fri, 10 Dec 2004 21:11:55 GMT, while reading
    alt.tv.tech.hdtv, I think I thought I saw this post from Lew
    <notme@notmindspring.com>:

    >On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:47:21 GMT, Matthew Vaughan wrote:
    >
    >> "Jim Gilliland" <usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote in message
    >> news:S96dnX2kSpuBcC3cRVn-ug@adelphia.com...
    >>> Lew wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> My problem isn't with different inputs. It's what the TV does with the
    >>>> sound after all that conversion. It sends a compensated (delayed) signal
    >>>> to the internal speakers but not to the external feed. When I'm watching
    >>>> Fox News with my stereo on, sometimes I notice the sound slightly before
    >>>> the lips move. When I have both stereo and TV speakers on, there is an
    >>>> echo. When just the TV speakers are on, I don't notice the sync problem.
    >>>
    >>> I wouldn't recommend running both sets of speakers at once. The sync
    >>> issue is only one of many reasons not to do that. The speakers in my
    >>> Samsung are never used. All sound comes through my 5.1 receiver.
    >>
    >> That's true, but I think he was running both speakers just to help
    >> illustrate how out of sync one output was.
    >>
    >> Also, I'd say that for such a delay to be audible as such it would have to
    >> be a LOT more than 1-3ms. It's almost certainly at least in the tens of
    >> milliseconds, and probably well over 100ms (though I can't really say
    >> without hearing it myself). It's understandable that digital video
    >> processing and decompression takes some time, but overlooking that all the
    >> outputs should be synchronized with the video (and with each other) is the
    >> kind of dumb engineering mistake that kind of bothers people who have spent
    >> thousands of dollars on the product. :)
    >
    >Exactly my point. The thing that bothered me the most was Samsung's
    >solution: buy a new home theater system with audio delay.
    >
    Maybe I missed something, but I seem to recall that the problem was when you
    split the audio and video before the Samsung ever gets it, so that the TV
    gets the video, and the stereo gets the audio. If so, there's no way to
    solve that problem without buying a system with delay.

    If you are looping the audio through the TV (which doesn't have digital
    audio inputs) then the TV could add a delay, although it would really need
    digital inputs, wouldn't it?

    With my HLP model, I only noticed a delay when the TV speakers are not
    muted, even though the volume was down all the way. When I muted the sound
    using the TV menu, I no longer noticed the delay, either from the TV output
    nor from the DVD.

    --
    Marty - mjf at leftcoast-usa.com
    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...
    well, I have others." - Groucho Marx
  15. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 00:59:48 GMT, Marty wrote:

    <snip>

    > Maybe I missed something, but I seem to recall that the problem was when you
    > split the audio and video before the Samsung ever gets it, so that the TV
    > gets the video, and the stereo gets the audio. If so, there's no way to
    > solve that problem without buying a system with delay.
    >
    > If you are looping the audio through the TV (which doesn't have digital
    > audio inputs) then the TV could add a delay, although it would really need
    > digital inputs, wouldn't it?
    >
    > With my HLP model, I only noticed a delay when the TV speakers are not
    > muted, even though the volume was down all the way. When I muted the sound
    > using the TV menu, I no longer noticed the delay, either from the TV output
    > nor from the DVD.

    I never split the audio before the Samsung gets it. I have, however,
    sometimes turned it down instead of muting it using the TV menu (my
    universal remote can't access the menu). After reading your response, I
    tried internal muting/turning down the TV speakers.

    You appear to be right. There is a slight sync problem with it turned down
    and none with it muted. The times I noticed were probably when the
    internal speakers were just turned down. I don't know what's happening
    technically, but it's as if the audio delay switches to the audio out when
    you mute the speakers this way.

    If you read my previous posts, you'll see that Samsung Tech Support told me
    something different. I knew not to listen to both internal and external
    speakers but didn't think about the difference between turning down and
    internally muting the internal speakers until your post. Thanks. It was
    the only problem I had with an otherwise excellent TV.

    Lew
  16. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    In article <1bih7f796l4x9$.ih6i74tttylg.dlg@40tude.net>,
    notme@notmindspring.com says...
    > On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:47:21 GMT, Matthew Vaughan wrote:
    >
    > > "Jim Gilliland" <usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote in message
    > > news:S96dnX2kSpuBcC3cRVn-ug@adelphia.com...
    > >> Lew wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>> My problem isn't with different inputs. It's what the TV does with the
    > >>> sound after all that conversion. It sends a compensated (delayed) signal
    > >>> to the internal speakers but not to the external feed. When I'm watching
    > >>> Fox News with my stereo on, sometimes I notice the sound slightly before
    > >>> the lips move. When I have both stereo and TV speakers on, there is an
    > >>> echo. When just the TV speakers are on, I don't notice the sync problem.
    > >>
    > >> I wouldn't recommend running both sets of speakers at once. The sync
    > >> issue is only one of many reasons not to do that. The speakers in my
    > >> Samsung are never used. All sound comes through my 5.1 receiver.
    > >
    > > That's true, but I think he was running both speakers just to help
    > > illustrate how out of sync one output was.
    > >
    > > Also, I'd say that for such a delay to be audible as such it would have to
    > > be a LOT more than 1-3ms. It's almost certainly at least in the tens of
    > > milliseconds, and probably well over 100ms (though I can't really say
    > > without hearing it myself). It's understandable that digital video
    > > processing and decompression takes some time, but overlooking that all the
    > > outputs should be synchronized with the video (and with each other) is the
    > > kind of dumb engineering mistake that kind of bothers people who have spent
    > > thousands of dollars on the product. :)
    >
    > Exactly my point. The thing that bothered me the most was Samsung's
    > solution: buy a new home theater system with audio delay.

    What else can they suggest? If you are going to split the audio from the
    video *before* it goes into the TV how the hell are they supposed to
    solve the problem that your audio processor is faster than the video
    processor? They -can't- make the TV faster, and they can't touch the
    audio channel at all to slow it down, because you split it off.

    The only solution is to delay the audio, and that can only be done by
    the audio hardware.
  17. Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

    Somewhere around Sat, 11 Dec 2004 05:37:03 GMT, while reading
    alt.tv.tech.hdtv, I think I thought I saw this post from Lew
    <notme@notmindspring.com>:

    >>
    >> With my HLP model, I only noticed a delay when the TV speakers are not
    >> muted, even though the volume was down all the way. When I muted the sound
    >> using the TV menu, I no longer noticed the delay, either from the TV output
    >> nor from the DVD.
    >
    >I never split the audio before the Samsung gets it. I have, however,
    >sometimes turned it down instead of muting it using the TV menu (my
    >universal remote can't access the menu). After reading your response, I
    >tried internal muting/turning down the TV speakers.
    >
    >You appear to be right. There is a slight sync problem with it turned down
    >and none with it muted. The times I noticed were probably when the
    >internal speakers were just turned down. I don't know what's happening
    >technically, but it's as if the audio delay switches to the audio out when
    >you mute the speakers this way.
    >
    >If you read my previous posts, you'll see that Samsung Tech Support told me
    >something different. I knew not to listen to both internal and external
    >speakers but didn't think about the difference between turning down and
    >internally muting the internal speakers until your post. Thanks. It was
    >the only problem I had with an otherwise excellent TV.
    >

    Sorry for the delay (rimshot) in responding, I've been sick.

    Glad I was able to help you solve the problem; I'm not sure how I came upon
    the solution, but I probably read it somewhere, possibly in the manual.

    --
    Marty - mjf at leftcoast-usa.com
    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...
    well, I have others." - Groucho Marx
  18. I gues the best way to resolve this problem would be for the TV manufacturers to introduce an audio I/O with a variable delay so that the piece of equipment that causes the problem has the facility to fix it built in.
Ask a new question

Read More

HDTV Audio Samsung Home Theatre