R600 Geared towards DX-10

[LordPope]

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=741&Itemid=1

pretty much what i thought.... people want to call the r600 a bust based on one sites tests what are dubious and no DX-10 scores in vista

If your buy vid cards like once every 2 years as i do.....you can see now important it is to know your vid card you buy today will have some power to run the dx10 games later...

 

[pauldh]

Anyone calling the R600 a bust over the DT benchmarks and rumors is silly IMO. But really IMO DX9 performance in todays games is probably more important than tomorrows DX10 games in Vista. I see your point, but the games that will convince us to go DX10/Vista are not here, and there will be GPU refreshes out by the time they are. Still if R600XT offers better DX9 performance now than the 8800GTS 640MB it could still be a good buy. If it then offers better DX10 performance than the 8800GTX it would end up being a very good buy. But it has to compete price/performance-wise right now or it's not going to earn much appeal.

 

[LordPope]

Anyone calling the R600 a bust over the DT benchmarks and rumors is silly IMO. But really IMO DX9 performance in todays games is probably more important than tomorrows DX10 games in Vista. I see your point, but the games that will convince us to go DX10/Vista are not here, and there will be GPU refreshes out by the time they are. Still if R600XT offers better DX9 performance now than the 8800GTS 640MB it could still be a good buy. If it then offers better DX10 performance than the 8800GTX it would end up being a very good buy. But it has to compete price/performance-wise right now or it's not going to earn much appeal.

myself... i will wait for the refresh...the r650 or g90

but still.... dx-10 performance is a factor ... imagine the person who gets 8800gtx thinking he will get top performance in crysis....based on dx-9 performance....and then the r600 core lays the smack down in it..

because we dont know... crysis may not be playable at top REZ with full eye candy on a 8800GTX but smooth on a 2900xt

 

[LAN_deRf_HA]

I think i'm going to get the 2900 xt if it really is as low as the gts in price, I don't expect its price to drop that much even when the xtx comes out. Hopefully it will really shine in directx 10.

 

[bruce555]

I'm not completly sure about that smack down because in their statement to the press "The 2900xt is won't be able to compete with the 8800 gtx" the end of that sentence would have went, "right now until DX10 comes out and we'll give it a 'smack down' "
MO

 

[bfellow]

Fudzilla is saying the 2600's are delayed till June because the A12 samples has various issues

 

[harmattan]

Anyone calling the R600 a bust over the DT benchmarks and rumors is silly IMO. But really IMO DX9 performance in todays games is probably more important than tomorrows DX10 games in Vista. I see your point, but the games that will convince us to go DX10/Vista are not here, and there will be GPU refreshes out by the time they are. Still if R600XT offers better DX9 performance now than the 8800GTS 640MB it could still be a good buy. If it then offers better DX10 performance than the 8800GTX it would end up being a very good buy. But it has to compete price/performance-wise right now or it's not going to earn much appeal.

I'd agree: even if the preliminary DT benches prove to be entirely accurate, R600 still performs between an 8800 GTS and 8800 GTX. AMD/ATI owns the $375 - $500 price segment in this case (I expect 2900XT will hover around $425-450, at least until late July). I don't really care if R600 performs better in DX10 since I'll be upgrading by the time the games become prevelent. Nonetheless, it's still pretty disappointing to see ATI release a card 6 months late that does not outperform G80.

 

[No1sFanboy]

but still.... dx-10 performance is a factor ... imagine the person who gets 8800gtx thinking he will get top performance in crysis....based on dx-9 performance....and then the r600 core lays the smack down in it..

Personally I knew buying the 8800gtx that DX10 performance is an unknown. Only because it stepped up as being a good card for everything I can play did I buy it. I'm guessing this is the common logic. Had the card been released as a so so performer on current titles with the promise of Dx10 performance then you could laugh at us for buying it.

My long term plan is simple, if it sucks at Dx10 I throw it in one of my older computers and buy again.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

But really IMO DX9 performance in todays games is probably more important than tomorrows DX10 games in Vista.

True as long as there isn't a way to express the benefit, then there essentially is no benefit of A>B.

that's one of the reasons I was thinkng there was no rush on the R600 for this very reason, with AMD hoping by now something would come along to show even the supposedly relatively weak HD2900XT as having a discernable benefit over the GTX. They may need to wait until 1-2 months into sales for that, which kinda sucks for AMD because it means less cards sold close to the launch premium price, and potentially a moving what would've been easy to sell as a $500 card at $400 instead.

I see your point, but the games that will convince us to go DX10/Vista are not here, and there will be GPU refreshes out by the time they are.

Well that depends, FSX should hit with SP1 before the end of June (unless there's another beta bug found [3rd Beta now]), and the Crysis demo is rumoured June/July, so that would be before a refresh from either, but maybe not enough to be 'conclusive' of anything for anyone.

Still if R600XT offers better DX9 performance now than the 8800GTS 640MB it could still be a good buy. If it then offers better DX10 performance than the 8800GTX it would end up being a very good buy. But it has to compete price/performance-wise right now or it's not going to earn much appeal.

Exactly, just look at the GF8600 series. And while I say it's over priced I think I look at it more knowledageably than many consumers, and still do give it credit for DX10, just no too much or too little IMO.

I suspect that by the time we know the better architecture, that the refresh will focus on fixing some of the flaws in the lesser one.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Fudzilla is saying the 2600's are delayed till June because the A12 samples has various issues

Don't see how that's relevant to the discussion.
Care to explain? :?:

 

[enewmen]

I'm also waiting for a refresh (r700, g90).
The road to DX10 and Vista 64 still seems rocky,
I expect those cards to have much higher performance and all ironed out.

I was really hoping the 2900XT is the next 9700 Pro. Just one more year :roll:

 

[pauldh]

True as long as there isn't a way to express the benefit, then there essentially is no benefit of A>B.

Yeah, and that's exactly the way I meant my comment to be taken. If it were September and we had a few big DX10 titles out, then Vista/DX10 performance would IMO be worth more than DX9 Win XP benchies.

As far as FSX, I guess it just doesn't appeal to me. But a Crysis demo that early is news to me. (sweet, it's good news too).

 

[warezme]

I'm not completly sure about that smack down because in their statement to the press "The 2900xt is won't be able to compete with the 8800 gtx" the end of that sentence would have went, "right now until DX10 comes out and we'll give it a 'smack down' "
MO

Uh, yea..., hate to break it to you fans but the 8800GTX is geared for DX10 also..., it just happens to do DX9 better than ATI. Its whole architecture was designed for DX10 just like 600...,

 

[Dahak]

It's only a matter of time till people realize that ATI is not full of s***,and can produce a video card capable of competeing directly with NVIDIA.And although DX9 performance is somewhat of a dissapointment,we really need DX10 games and benchies to truly put bothe cards through their paces.Then and only then will we have a true comparison.That my friends,is why I am waiting a few more months.

Dahak

AMD X2-4400+@2.6 TOLEDO
EVGA NF4 SLI MB
2X EVGA 7950GT KO IN SLI
4X 512MB CRUCIAL BALLISTIX DDR500
WD300GIG HD/SAMSUNG 250GIG HD
ACER 22IN WIDESCREEN LCD 1600X1200
THERMALTAKE TOUGHPOWER 850WATT PSU
COOLERMASTER MINI R120
3DMARK05 13,471

 

[bruce555]

bruce555 wrote:
I'm not completly sure about that smack down because in their statement to the press "The 2900xt is won't be able to compete with the 8800 gtx" the end of that sentence would have went, "right now until DX10 comes out and we'll give it a 'smack down' "
MO



Uh, yea..., hate to break it to you fans but the 8800GTX is geared for DX10 also..., it just happens to do DX9 better than ATI. Its whole architecture was designed for DX10 just like 600...,

I wasn't saying that the 8800 gtx sucked. Obviously look at my investment. All I was getting at in my statement was that ATI doesn't seem to have as much confidence as all the ATI fans that the 2900 xt will destroy in DX10.

 

[xsamitt]

I'm also waiting for a refresh (r700, g90).
The road to DX10 and Vista 64 still seems rocky,
I expect those cards to have much higher performance and all ironed out.

I was really hoping the 2900XT is the next 9700 Pro. Just one more year :roll:

And I have been waiting for 2 years already.
Been busy though ..So it's all good.

 

[ninjaspa]

it's looking like the initial benches at launch won't do ati's latest efforts much justice in future proofing terms, and even if we could peer into the future of directX gaming, it's not too likely the 2900xt will surpass the 8800gtx; however the margins look to be mitigated by fall

 

[Glacier]

myself... i will wait for the refresh...the r650 or g90

I'm thinking about waiting for the refresh too, unless they actually make a 256-bit 8600. I might actually take a gamble on that card.

Edit: I first wrote 256MB 8600, don't ask me what I was thinking....

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Uh, yea..., hate to break it to you fans but the 8800GTX is geared for DX10 also..., it just happens to do DX9 better than ATI. Its whole architecture was designed for DX10 just like 600...,

We still don't know that yet, no more than you 'know' whether or not nV is better than AMD at DX9.

If we go by rumour and previews alone then the GTX is must faster at DX9, and the XTX is much faster at DX10. Oh and the GTX's geometry shaders are so weak as to make one of the FSX devs comment on how they will have to consider that weakness when making the DX10 SP1 version.

Personally I'll wait to see the finaly shipping product before determining what is what. I think that's usually the best plan, especially considering the number of underwhelming products lately.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

I'm thinking about waiting for the refresh too, unless they actually make a 256-bit 8600. I might actually take a gamble on that card.

IMO, if the HD2600 series or HD2900XL don't impress you for the money, then the best bet would be the GF8800GTS-320, unlikely to get such a good deal near-term, and long term you're just missing out on a good card, which you could easily sell and upgrade later.

 

[Arklon]

If we go by rumour and previews alone then the GTX is must faster at DX9, and the XTX is much faster at DX10. Oh and the GTX's geometry shaders are so weak as to make one of the FSX devs comment on how they will have to consider that weakness when making the DX10 SP1 version.

Can you link to that blog?

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

http://blogs.msdn.com/ptaylor/archive/2007/03/03/optimized-for-vista-does-not-mean-dx10.aspx

We really want to see final ATI hw and production quality NV and ATI drivers before we ship our DX10 support. Early tests on ATI hw show their geometry shader unit is much more performant than the GS unit on the NV hw. That could influence our feature plan."

So if you just go by rumours alone anyone who says the G80 owns in DX can equally understand that if M$ needs to 'rethink their feature plan to accomodate the G80's underperforming geometry shaders', that it may not be up to the task of one of the most important parts of DX10 and consider what that means to whom owns in DX10.

Like I said personally I'll wait until it matters, and until we have something more solid to go on before I declare winners/losers .

 

[baligavinod]

nice find...may be r600 was developed with just DX10 in mind...and g80 (though it is DX10 architecture) with more of DX9 in mind...

 

[IcY18]

And why not, nVidia was smart enough that they new if they could get something out there that was atleast dx10 compatible they could ride the dx10 wave, knowing full well they would have more than enough time before more than 1-2 dx10 games were even out.
On top of all that it just seemed to make sense that since it was dx10 compatible it would be an amazing dx9 card. Well what actually could hold true is that it is a fantastic dx9 card but slightly worse dx10 card. ATi on the other hand, typically slow with there releases, was not able to react fast enough like nV, because of this, they've been developing a very true dx10 card, so they keep delaying there new card, cause it underperforms in dx9 until we can get a very real dx10 benchmark because that is where this card should shine. Fortunately for nV they've had the time to watch the 8800GTX/s absolutely dominate the high end segment, and while all this is happening are developing a more "true" dx10 card.

 

[bydesign]

You want to ground that statement?