Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Server - currently Celeron 1.8 -> what Xeon should I get?

Last response: in CPUs
Share
April 30, 2007 6:13:03 PM

The current machine is an old Compaq EXS 1.8 GHz with a RamBus 512 M RAM, and a hefty external raid system.

It was upto now just a file server, and IIS Server (static PHP) with some database aspects (MySQL).

I've noticed it bouncing off the CPU monitor quite a bit and we are looking at moving to SQL Server with some dot-net products (DotNetNuke, and a new commerce product also dot-net).

Most days we get 100+ hits and usually 10 page views. Expected goal of 200-300 hits a day with 15-20 page views.

Now we are looking at a Xeon system, and the first question is what level should we go with, as from what I understand the moterboard config has different levels (like 4 ram chips or 8 chips capacity). And thhe other is should I be looking at a high end Dual, or a low end quad (they are the same price).

Second question - The target OS is Windows 2000 Adv Server, so would it make sense to have 2, 4, or 8 gigs of Ram, with it.

And suggestions would be great as the price range varies greatly on these.

Cheers,
Quentin J Sarafinchan
www.TotalGarage.ca

More about : server celeron xeon

a b à CPUs
April 30, 2007 6:16:50 PM

Are you really looking for a Server or trying to plug your website?
April 30, 2007 6:25:01 PM

Why would I waste all my time asking about technical information with detailed information if I was plugging a web site. I always add the url on my tag line, and that was the only reference to it. I'd belabour the point but I am here for technical information not to discuss the merits of website promoting.

[no tag line so I don't offend people]
Related resources
April 30, 2007 6:30:22 PM

What kind of budget do you have? That level of traffic wouldn't require too hefty of a rig. I dare say any new dual-core desktop could easily handle that.
April 30, 2007 6:33:05 PM

I'm trying to keep the budget down if I can, say 2,500 cdn. but if necessary I'll move up. I'd rather do this and know it will work then go half-assed and have to spend more to patch my mistakes.

Quentin
a b à CPUs
April 30, 2007 6:51:11 PM

Quote:
I'm trying to keep the budget down if I can, say 2,500 cdn. but if necessary I'll move up. I'd rather do this and know it will work then go half-assed and have to spend more to patch my mistakes.

Quentin


Well honeslty your current server cannot really be upgraded. Or at least no upgrade that would be worth the cost and effort.

RDRAM isn't really used anymore.

You'd need a new Motherboard, new RAM and a new CPU (probably a new Case and Power supply as well). Considering the cost I'd probably suggest a Dual Core AMD Processor (Athlon64 X2). Something around a 3800+. It really depends on what RAID array you're using too. You might need a board with a 64bit PCI slot if your using SCSI RAID with a 64bit controller.

I'd also suggest about 1GB of PC2 5700 DDR Memory (2x512MB) and a solid Gigabyte or Asus AM2 socket motherboard.

Because your usage isn't extremely stressful you probably don't need to go Opteron or Xeon.

For those Curious..

Compaq EXS


What's New
NEW IntelÒ PentiumÒ 4 processor with 400MHz Front Side Bus
NEW IntelÒ 850 chipset
Non-ECC RDRAM
Enhanced Graphics
Easy Access Keyboard
Scroll Mouse
Suspend to RAM support

At A Glance

IntelÒ Pentium 4 (400MHz FSB) 1.3, 1.4 or 1.5 GHz processor and IntelÒ 850 chipset
256-KB integrated full speed L2 cache
High capacity Ultra ATA Quiet Seek and Idle hard drives with Drive Protection System
Five bays (three external, two internal)
Six slots (one AGP, five PCI)
NVIDIA GeForce2 GTS 32-MB or NVIDIA TNT2 Pro AGP graphics controller
Intel PRO/100+ Management Adapter with Wake-on-LAN and Alert-on-LAN support
Integrated SoundBlaster PCI 128 Audio Service-friendly design
Protected by Compaq Services, including a 3-1-1 limited warranty. Certain restrictions and exclusions apply.
a b à CPUs
April 30, 2007 7:26:03 PM

Here are some parts you might like. The motherboard comes with two 64-bit PCI slots.

Antec SLK1650 Mid-Tower Case w/350W PS - $64.95CDN
Asus M2N32-WS PRO NF590SLI AM2 ATX MB (SLI/Raid/GbE/FW/PCI-X) - $318.00CDN
AMD Athlon64 X2 3800+ AM2 Dual-Core 65W Processor - $99CDN
Kingston ValueRam 1GB DC PC2-5300 DDR2 Memory Kit - $73CDN
Asus Radeon AX300SE-X 128MB PCIe DH Video Card w/TV-OUT, Retail - $49CDN
2xSeagate 7200.10 320GB 7200RPM 16MB SATAII Hard Drive, 5Yr - $198.00

For a Sub Total of: $801.95 + tax (around 6% GST and 8% PST).

All prices taken from: ShopRBC

If you preffer Intel..

Antec SLK1650 Mid-Tower Case w/350W PS - $64.95CDN
Asus P5WDG2-WS Pro S775 i975X ATX Mainboard SATAII/Raid/CrossFire/GbE/PCI-X - $375.00CDN
Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 1.80GHz 2MB/800FSB Processor - $139.95CDN
Kingston ValueRam 1GB DC PC2-5300 DDR2 Memory Kit - $73CDN
Asus Radeon AX300SE-X 128MB PCIe DH Video Card w/TV-OUT, Retail - $49CDN
2xSeagate 7200.10 320GB 7200RPM 16MB SATAII Hard Drive, 5Yr - $198.00

For a Sub Total of: $899.90 + tax (around 6% GST and 8% PST).
April 30, 2007 7:30:43 PM

I should clarify that by upgrading the server, I'm replacing the entire box. Also since the bus structure has changed, I was looking at going with 2-300 GB drives mirrored, and use the raid system for the file system, backups, etc. The quest really started in earnest 2 weeks ago when I realized the memory ugrade expense and limitations of that unit.

The existing Raid is only 1TB using an external Promise Enclosure. but I know the scsi card is older, so either the scsi card needs to be upgraded as well, or I just use the raid as a secondary unit or I keep the entire unit as is as a secondary baby server.
a b à CPUs
April 30, 2007 7:34:53 PM

Post right above yours is what you should go for.

You can use your existing SCSI card, no problems. Also the board comes with gigabit Ethernet, firewire, PCI Express and PCI-X slots.

Supports IDE and SATA RAID 0,1,5 etc.
April 30, 2007 7:40:11 PM

ok dude, i'm not much of an expert on servers but i did alittle research and i found out that its all about the speed of the FSB so you'll have fast communication between the cup, ram and hard drives. heres what i cooked up.

ASUS P5B Deluxe ATX LGA775 Conroe P965 DDR2 2PCI-E16 PCI-E1 3PCI SATA2 DTS Sound 1394 Motherboard

XFX GeForce 8600 GT XXX 620MHZ 256MB 1.6GHZ DDR3 PCI-E Dual DVI-I HDTV Out DIRECTX10 Video

Thermaltake CL-P0114 Big Typhoon Copper Alum CPU Heatsinkfan 1300RPM 54.4CFM 16DBA LGA775 S939

Thermaltake Armor VA8003SWA Silver ATX 11X5.25 6X3.5INT No PS W/ Window And 25CM Fan

Enermax Galaxy 1000W Power Supply ATX V2.0 EPS12V RoHS 24PIN 135MM Fan Modular 4PCI-E

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Quad Core Processor LGA775 Kentsfield 2.40GHZ 1066FSB 8MB Retail Box

Mushkin EM PC2-6400 4GB 2X2GB DDR2-800 CL5-5-5 240PIN DIMM Dual Channel Memory Kit

Swiftech MCX159-CU Extreme Duty Chipset Heatsink for AMD & Intel Platform Motherboards


the total is $2,199.85 all from NCIX.

what i recommend is that with the processor i chose, you overclock it to 3.2 Ghz and you'll get a 1600Mhz Front Sid Bus. add to that the four cores and four gigs or ram and you've got a power house. i chose the Armor because of the large amount of room for hard drives and the extra 250mm side fan will keep everything nice and cool. the Swiftech cooler is to make sure to keep your north bridge cool under a 600Mhz overclock :D 

good luck man
April 30, 2007 7:43:04 PM

So is there any benefit to moving to a server style hardware? How would your recommendation compare to this system? (note I'd upgrade the hd's in it to 300's)

http://www.memoryexpress.com/index.php?PageTag=&page=fi...

And out of curiousity, how big of a difference is there performance wize between your suggested system and my current antiquated one?

Quentin
a b à CPUs
April 30, 2007 7:43:09 PM

Quote:
ok dude, i'm not much of an expert on servers but i did alittle research and i found out that its all about the speed of the FSB so you'll have fast communication between the cup, ram and hard drives. heres what i cooked up.

ASUS P5B Deluxe ATX LGA775 Conroe P965 DDR2 2PCI-E16 PCI-E1 3PCI SATA2 DTS Sound 1394 Motherboard

XFX GeForce 8600 GT XXX 620MHZ 256MB 1.6GHZ DDR3 PCI-E Dual DVI-I HDTV Out DIRECTX10 Video

Thermaltake CL-P0114 Big Typhoon Copper Alum CPU Heatsinkfan 1300RPM 54.4CFM 16DBA LGA775 S939

Thermaltake Armor VA8003SWA Silver ATX 11X5.25 6X3.5INT No PS W/ Window And 25CM Fan

Enermax Galaxy 1000W Power Supply ATX V2.0 EPS12V RoHS 24PIN 135MM Fan Modular 4PCI-E

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Quad Core Processor LGA775 Kentsfield 2.40GHZ 1066FSB 8MB Retail Box

Mushkin EM PC2-6400 4GB 2X2GB DDR2-800 CL5-5-5 240PIN DIMM Dual Channel Memory Kit

Swiftech MCX159-CU Extreme Duty Chipset Heatsink for AMD & Intel Platform Motherboards


the total is $2,199.85 all from NCIX.

what i recommend is that with the processor i chose, you overclock it to 3.2 Ghz and you'll get a 1600Mhz Front Sid Bus. add to that the four cores and four gigs or ram and you've got a power house. i chose the Armor because of the large amount of room for hard drives and the extra 250mm side fan will keep everything nice and cool. the Swiftech cooler is to make sure to keep your north bridge cool under a 600Mhz overclock :D 

good luck man


Nice gaming rig.. :p 
a b à CPUs
April 30, 2007 7:46:05 PM

Quote:
So is there any benefit to moving to a server style hardware? How would your recommendation compare to this system? (note I'd upgrade the hd's in it to 300's)

http://www.memoryexpress.com/index.php?PageTag=&page=fi...

And out of curiousity, how big of a difference is there performance wize between your suggested system and my current antiquated one?

Quentin


Very comparable...

Xeons are mean't, mainly to be used in multiple processor environment. It used to be they had larger Caches and more performance per clock then their desktop counterparts but that's really no longer the case. That's Xeon is actually a lot like a Core 2 Duo E6300.

Here's something that will trump that Server in performance yet cost less.

Antec SLK1650 Mid-Tower Case w/350W PS - $64.95
Asus P5WDG2-WS Pro S775 i975X ATX Mainboard SATAII/Raid/CrossFire/GbE/PCI-X - $375.00
Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 1.86GHz 2MB/1066FSB Processor - $209.95
Kingston ValueRam 2GB DC PC2-5300 DDR2 Memory Kit - $133.00
Asus Radeon AX300SE-X 128MB PCIe DH Video Card w/TV-OUT, Retail - $49.00
2xSeagate 7200.10 320GB 7200RPM 16MB SATAII Hard Drive, 5Yr - 198.00
LG GSA-H50N 18X DVD+/-RW Drive BEIGE, OEM - $41.00

Sub Total of $1070.90 CDN

BTW it also supports Dual 10/100/1000Mbps LAN
April 30, 2007 7:52:05 PM

And out of curiousity, how big of a difference is there performance wize between your suggested system and my current antiquated one?

And I guess I don't need to be looking at the upper end of the Xeon duals then. That will save me a lot of coin, especially if a desktop will suffice!
a b à CPUs
April 30, 2007 7:55:34 PM

Quote:
And out of curiousity, how big of a difference is there performance wize between your suggested system and my current antiquated one?

And I guess I don't need to be looking at the upper end of the Xeon duals then. That will save me a lot of coin, especially if a desktop will suffice!


You're looking at a non-comparable performance difference. Something like comparing the performance of a rocket powered card with that of a Pontiac Firefly.

I'm not exagerating either.

But it this way.. An Intel Pentium 4 1.8GHz is much faster then your Celeron, an Intel Pentium 4 with Two cores and clocked over 4GHz (two 4GHz cores) still doesn't match the power of the Core 2 Duo Processor I suggested.
April 30, 2007 8:02:41 PM

ok the ST1000I Series Server System is no where near the power of the one i built for you, how? heres how; dual core V.S. the Quad core, integrated VGA card V.S. 8600GTS!, 550watt "server"PSU V.S. enermax 1000Watt PSU, PC4200 2G DDR2 ECC Memory V.S. 4Gb of PC6400 memory. i didnt chose any hard drives cause i though u had some. heres my revised comp,

ASUS P5B Deluxe ATX LGA775 Conroe P965 DDR2 2PCI-E16 PCI-E1 3PCI SATA2 DTS Sound 1394 Motherboard

Thermaltake CL-P0114 Big Typhoon Copper Alum CPU Heatsinkfan 1300RPM 54.4CFM 16DBA LGA775 S939

Thermaltake Armor VA8003SWA Silver ATX 11X5.25 6X3.5INT No PS W/ Window And 25CM Fan

Enermax Galaxy 1000W Power Supply ATX V2.0 EPS12V RoHS 24PIN 135MM Fan Modular 4PCI-E

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Quad Core Processor LGA775 Kentsfield 2.40GHZ 1066FSB 8MB Retail Box

Mushkin EM PC2-6400 4GB 2X2GB DDR2-800 CL5-5-5 240PIN DIMM Dual Channel Memory Kit

Swiftech MCX159-CU Extreme Duty Chipset Heatsink for AMD & Intel Platform Motherboards

EVGA E-GEFORCE 8500 GT 450MHZ 256MB 128BIT DDR2 PCI-E Dual DVI-I HDTV Out DIRECTX10 Video Card

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB SATA2 3GB/S 7200RPM 16MB Cache NCQ Hard Drive x2 in RAID 1 or 0, which ever u want

Sony AW-Q170A DVD+RW 18X8X16 DVD-RW 18X6X16 DL 8X/4X IDE 2MB Black OEM W/O Software

this totals up to $2,403.50, still under budget.

if you wanted to save money, you could go for a dual core E6600( save 250 bucks) you'll get much higher performance then the ST1000I but no where near the power of the Q6600. i drooped the GFX card for a lower one because of the server application. the 1000 watt PSU i recommend stays for the ability to add more hard drives in the future with out a problem. if you don;t like the build i'm giving you, dont be shy to speak up.

P.S. if your stuck on Xenon and Core2Duo, there isnt a difference. both perform identically; only difference is that Xenons are batched higher meaning they and handle higher voltages. you wont have to worry about that.
a b à CPUs
April 30, 2007 8:06:11 PM

Quote:
ok the ST1000I Series Server System is no where near the power of the one i built for you, how? heres how; dual core V.S. the Quad core, integrated VGA card V.S. 8600GTS!, 550watt "server"PSU V.S. enermax 1000Watt PSU, PC4200 2G DDR2 ECC Memory V.S. 4Gb of PC6400 memory. i didnt chose any hard drives cause i though u had some. heres my revised comp,

ASUS P5B Deluxe ATX LGA775 Conroe P965 DDR2 2PCI-E16 PCI-E1 3PCI SATA2 DTS Sound 1394 Motherboard

Thermaltake CL-P0114 Big Typhoon Copper Alum CPU Heatsinkfan 1300RPM 54.4CFM 16DBA LGA775 S939

Thermaltake Armor VA8003SWA Silver ATX 11X5.25 6X3.5INT No PS W/ Window And 25CM Fan

Enermax Galaxy 1000W Power Supply ATX V2.0 EPS12V RoHS 24PIN 135MM Fan Modular 4PCI-E

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Quad Core Processor LGA775 Kentsfield 2.40GHZ 1066FSB 8MB Retail Box

Mushkin EM PC2-6400 4GB 2X2GB DDR2-800 CL5-5-5 240PIN DIMM Dual Channel Memory Kit

Swiftech MCX159-CU Extreme Duty Chipset Heatsink for AMD & Intel Platform Motherboards

EVGA E-GEFORCE 8500 GT 450MHZ 256MB 128BIT DDR2 PCI-E Dual DVI-I HDTV Out DIRECTX10 Video Card

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB SATA2 3GB/S 7200RPM 16MB Cache NCQ Hard Drive x2 in RAID 1 or 0, which ever u want

Sony AW-Q170A DVD+RW 18X8X16 DVD-RW 18X6X16 DL 8X/4X IDE 2MB Black OEM W/O Software

this totals up to $2,403.50, still under budget.

if you wanted to save money, you could go for a dual core E6600( save 250 bucks) you'll get much higher performance then the ST1000I but no where near the power of the Q6600. i drooped the GFX card for a lower one because of the server application. the 1000 watt PSU i recommend stays for the ability to add more hard drives in the future with out a problem. if you don;t like the build i'm giving you, dont be shy to speak up.

P.S. if your stuck on Xenon and Core2Duo, there isnt a difference. both perform identically; only difference is that Xenons are batched higher meaning they and handle higher voltages. you wont have to worry about that.


Why Quad Core?
Why 1000Watts Power Supply?
Why a Thermaltake fancy case?
Why PC2-6400 Memory when Server's aren't overclocked?
Why a huge Typhoon heatsink?
Why a Powerful Graphics Gaming card?

Why that setup for a webserver..lol.
April 30, 2007 8:12:11 PM

y? simple, as i stated i'm a n00b it this server stuff. when i hear server i think of a Mainframe or sumthing. so i see with your build recommendation a web server doesn't need much "power". ok man, i'm still for the 1000watt PSU for more storage but you know what work and what doesn't... :D  i tried :wink:
April 30, 2007 8:13:12 PM

Here is what I came up with that was similiar to your 2nd machine. What confuses me is why is a 2Mb cache MORE money then a 4Mb cache... did I mess up on any of the pieces? price was in the same range.


Processor : Intel Core™2 Duo Processor E6300 1.86GHz w/ 2MB Cache 1 $219.95 $219.95
CPU Heatsink / Fan : Intel Retail Heatsink and Fan 1 $0.00 $0.00
Motherboards : Asus P5W DH Deluxe w/ DualDDR2 800, 7.1 Audio, Dual GB Lan, 1394, Crossfire Dual PCI-E x16 1 $259.95 $259.95
Memory : Kingston 2GB PC2-5300 DDR2 SDRAM Kit (2 x 1GB) 1 $119.95 $119.95
Case : Antec Performance TX640B w/ 400W SmartPower 2.0 1 $124.95 $124.95
Power Supplies : Antec 400W SmartPower 2.0 Included with Case 1 $0.00 $0.00
Case Fans : Delta 60mm 38CFM High Speed Fan (AFB0612EH) 1 $14.95 $14.95
Hard Drives 1 : Seagate 320GB Barracuda 7200.10 SATA II w/ NCQ, 16MB Cache 1 $99.95 $99.95
Hard Drives 2 : Seagate 320GB Barracuda 7200.10 SATA II w/ NCQ, 16MB Cache 1 $99.95 $99.95
Optical Drive 1 : LG Super Multi DVD Writer 18x18x8 DVD +/-RW Dual-Layer w/ Lightscribe, Black (OEM) 1 $42.95 $42.95
Optical Drive 2 : None 0 $0.00 $0.00
Video Cards : Asus Extreme AX1550 256MB PCI-E w/ TV-Out, DVI 1 $99.95 $99.95
Monitors : None 0 $0.00 $0.00
Sound Cards : Onboard 8-Channel 7.1 Audio 1 $0.00 $0.00
Ethernet Cards : Onboard Dual 100/1000 Gigabit Lan 1 $0.00 $0.00
Operating System : None 0 $0.00 $0.00
Assembly : None 0 $0.00 $0.00
Warranty : None 0 $0.00 $0.00

Total: $1082.55
April 30, 2007 8:17:08 PM

good job man, i like. just one thing, go for the E6350, same clock speeds but larger cache. it will give extra 10% performance increase for the same price. good luck
a b à CPUs
April 30, 2007 8:18:49 PM

Quote:
Here is what I came up with that was similiar to your 2nd machine. What confuses me is why is a 2Mb cache MORE money then a 4Mb cache... did I mess up on any of the pieces? price was in the same range.


Processor : Intel Core™2 Duo Processor E6300 1.86GHz w/ 2MB Cache 1 $219.95 $219.95
CPU Heatsink / Fan : Intel Retail Heatsink and Fan 1 $0.00 $0.00
Motherboards : Asus P5W DH Deluxe w/ DualDDR2 800, 7.1 Audio, Dual GB Lan, 1394, Crossfire Dual PCI-E x16 1 $259.95 $259.95
Memory : Kingston 2GB PC2-5300 DDR2 SDRAM Kit (2 x 1GB) 1 $119.95 $119.95
Case : Antec Performance TX640B w/ 400W SmartPower 2.0 1 $124.95 $124.95
Power Supplies : Antec 400W SmartPower 2.0 Included with Case 1 $0.00 $0.00
Case Fans : Delta 60mm 38CFM High Speed Fan (AFB0612EH) 1 $14.95 $14.95
Hard Drives 1 : Seagate 320GB Barracuda 7200.10 SATA II w/ NCQ, 16MB Cache 1 $99.95 $99.95
Hard Drives 2 : Seagate 320GB Barracuda 7200.10 SATA II w/ NCQ, 16MB Cache 1 $99.95 $99.95
Optical Drive 1 : LG Super Multi DVD Writer 18x18x8 DVD +/-RW Dual-Layer w/ Lightscribe, Black (OEM) 1 $42.95 $42.95
Optical Drive 2 : None 0 $0.00 $0.00
Video Cards : Asus Extreme AX1550 256MB PCI-E w/ TV-Out, DVI 1 $99.95 $99.95
Monitors : None 0 $0.00 $0.00
Sound Cards : Onboard 8-Channel 7.1 Audio 1 $0.00 $0.00
Ethernet Cards : Onboard Dual 100/1000 Gigabit Lan 1 $0.00 $0.00
Operating System : None 0 $0.00 $0.00
Assembly : None 0 $0.00 $0.00
Warranty : None 0 $0.00 $0.00

Total: $1082.55

Only problem there is if your current SCSI card is PCI-X (64bit) then it won't work on that board.

PCI Express is not PCI-X. The two are VERY different.

Which is why I suggested the boards I did.. they have both slot types.

Basically same specs you posted but with this motherboard instead..
Asus P5WDG2-WS Pro S775 i975X ATX Mainboard SATAII/Raid/CrossFire/GbE/PCI-X would work.
April 30, 2007 8:19:25 PM

BTW, I'm not stuck on Intel, it just the one I became familiar with during this exploration excersize. My machines are actually a mix of both AMD and Intel, so it doesn't bother me to use what ever gives me the biggest bang for my buck.
April 30, 2007 8:22:14 PM

stay away from AMD, around same prices but with much less performance. E6350 will be a sweet chip, and when over clocked, u'll be able to host games(like i do, 2142) with out a blip.
a b à CPUs
April 30, 2007 8:22:33 PM

Quote:
BTW, I'm not stuck on Intel, it just the one I became familiar with during this exploration excersize. My machines are actually a mix of both AMD and Intel, so it doesn't bother me to use what ever gives me the biggest bang for my buck.


Then the Athlon64 X2 3800+ machine posted above would work best for the buck. You could even switch out the 1GB of RAM and replace it with 2GB's.

Still would offer a lot of omf for the buck. Core 2 Duo's are faster though.. so it really depends on what you want.
April 30, 2007 8:23:05 PM

How about this setup? Its got a good dual core CPU, 4GB of ddr3 ram, a decent gfx card, and 600GB of storage

AMD Opteron 1212 2Ghz Socket AM2 Dual-Core---------- $193
TYAN Socket AM2 nForce Professional 3400 ATX---------- $199
2GB (2x1GB) G.Skill DDR2 800mhz 5-5-5-15-------------- $104
2GB (2x1GB) G.Skill DDR2 800mhz 5-5-5-15-------------- $104
600GB (2x300GB) Western Digital Caviar SE 7.2K rpm--- $188
XFX nVidia GeForce 7600GT 256mb GDDR3---------------- $119
CODEGEN Rackmount Case---------------------------------- $65
OCZ GameXstream 700watt Power Supply----------------- $149

Total: $1121
a b à CPUs
April 30, 2007 8:25:34 PM

Quote:
How about this setup? Its got a good dual core CPU, 4GB of ddr3 ram, a decent gfx card, and 600GB of storage

AMD Opteron 1212 2Ghz Socket AM2 Dual-Core---------- $193
TYAN Socket AM2 nForce Professional 3400 ATX---------- $199
2GB (2x1GB) G.Skill DDR2 800mhz 5-5-5-15-------------- $104
2GB (2x1GB) G.Skill DDR2 800mhz 5-5-5-15-------------- $104
600GB (2x300GB) Western Digital Caviar SE 7.2K rpm--- $188
XFX nVidia GeForce 7600GT 256mb GDDR3---------------- $119
CODEGEN Rackmount Case---------------------------------- $65
OCZ GameXstream 700watt Power Supply----------------- $149

Total: $1121


Antec SLK1650 Mid-Tower Case w/350W PS - $64.95
Asus P5WDG2-WS Pro S775 i975X ATX Mainboard SATAII/Raid/CrossFire/GbE/PCI-X - $375.00
Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 1.86GHz 2MB/1066FSB Processor - $209.95
Kingston ValueRam 2GB DC PC2-5300 DDR2 Memory Kit - $133.00
Asus Radeon AX300SE-X 128MB PCIe DH Video Card w/TV-OUT, Retail - $49.00
2xSeagate 7200.10 320GB 7200RPM 16MB SATAII Hard Drive, 5Yr - 198.00
LG GSA-H50N 18X DVD+/-RW Drive BEIGE, OEM - $41.00

Sub Total of $1070.90 CDN

Would outperform it also take up less power.

Again why the high Powered Graphics cards. It's a webserver not a gaming rig.
a b à CPUs
April 30, 2007 8:35:50 PM

All you need far as a GPU is anything that isn't integrated really. You could even use a X300 really. The main thing you need for a server is a lot of RAM and storage space.
a b à CPUs
April 30, 2007 8:40:13 PM

That's why I recommended an x300..LMAO.
April 30, 2007 8:41:38 PM

Just to be clear, as evil said it doesn't need a rocket video card... and the othher critical aspect is that 90% of all web content in the new system will be stored in a SQL Server database, processed by dot-net and spit out by IIS. (currently 90% is static, but this is about to change).

HTH
Quentin
a b à CPUs
April 30, 2007 8:44:13 PM

Yep.. which is why I recommended Dual Core Processors and powerful RAM.

1-2GB should suffice considering you've been going on 512MB..lol. You're also not looking for a HUGE data crunching machine as per your posted needs.

So Quad Core is also out of the question.
April 30, 2007 8:55:05 PM

Well without the SQL Server on there running I'm at 440 MB used as a base. And I have had it up to over 1.0 GB last week before the rebuild. Problem was I had a wayward IExplore process that was consuming memory (virus I suspected). Still it still hit 700 Mb easily.... and I hate thrashing.....

btw have you ever *forced* to work on on older laptop 512 mg ram, but as a baseline you never go below 1gb.... Now this is suffering.....

Questions...
* max ram?
* max drives?
* max upgrad on cpu?

um... think thats all I care about ever maxing out.

Quentin
a b à CPUs
April 30, 2007 8:59:00 PM

Max CPU on the Intel Rig I posted would be currently the Intel Core 2 QX6800 (quad Core 2.93GHz each Core).

Max RAM would be 8GB.
April 30, 2007 9:08:31 PM

Should I take into consideration the new AMD quads that are supposed to be out later this year? would going with cheap AMD duals now and swapping to AMD Quads make sense for future upgradability or is this not really a factor?
a b à CPUs
April 30, 2007 9:09:19 PM

Quote:
Should I take into consideration the new AMD quads that are supposed to be out later this year? would going with cheap AMD duals now and swapping to AMD Quads make sense for future upgradability or is this not really a factor?


Honestly, I wouldn't factor it in.. because factoring in probabilities and the unknown can lead to dissapointments.
April 30, 2007 9:19:55 PM

So to recap:

Antec SLK1650 Mid-Tower Case w/350W PS - $64.95CDN
Asus M2N32-WS PRO NF590SLI AM2 ATX MB (SLI/Raid/GbE/FW/PCI-X) - $318.00CDN
AMD Athlon64 X2 3800+ AM2 Dual-Core 65W Processor - $99CDN
Kingston ValueRam 1GB DC PC2-5300 DDR2 Memory Kit - $73CDN
Asus Radeon AX300SE-X 128MB PCIe DH Video Card w/TV-OUT, Retail - $49CDN
2xSeagate 7200.10 320GB 7200RPM 16MB SATAII Hard Drive, 5Yr - $198.00

or

Antec SLK1650 Mid-Tower Case w/350W PS - $64.95
Asus P5WDG2-WS Pro S775 i975X ATX Mainboard SATAII/Raid/CrossFire/GbE/PCI-X - $375.00
Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 1.86GHz 2MB/1066FSB Processor - $209.95
Kingston ValueRam 2GB DC PC2-5300 DDR2 Memory Kit - $133.00
Asus Radeon AX300SE-X 128MB PCIe DH Video Card w/TV-OUT, Retail - $49.00
2xSeagate 7200.10 320GB 7200RPM 16MB SATAII Hard Drive, 5Yr - 198.00
LG GSA-H50N 18X DVD+/-RW Drive BEIGE, OEM - $41.00

Max 8Mb Ram.
Max CPU on the Intel Rig I posted would be currently the Intel Core 2 QX6800 (quad Core 2.93GHz each Core).

Are these still similiar machines?
Why is the Intel using a 2mb vs a 4mb cache?
April 30, 2007 9:20:27 PM

A couple of thoughts... one if you are going to use a single CPU, I don't see much of an advantage (in your budget range) to getting a Xeon.

Applications where i would look at a Xeon are:
1) Dual CPU
2) Need for other Server features not easily available on standard desktops
a) SAS drives
b) High redundancy (power supplies,lan, etc)
c) High memory capacity (think 16 GB or more)

Looking at these requirements will blow your budget though, so I rather suspect you are just as well using a standard desktop with extra memory and drives (and a RAID card probably). I haven't seen a compelling reason to choose a Xeon over say a Q6600 as far as a processor to processor comparison.
a c 102 à CPUs
May 1, 2007 2:59:38 AM

Agreed. Servers don't have 8600GTs and NEVER overclock.
May 1, 2007 3:32:46 AM

Quote:
Agreed. Servers don't have 8600GTs and NEVER overclock.


What Ever!! MY server will have three HD2900XTs and 8Gb of Dominator Ram with watercooling and ubersupergloss paint and a couple of processors here and there and 5.1 surround sound and sound sensitive neon lights and a disco ball, and OVERCLOCK like no tomorrow!!!!!!
a c 102 à CPUs
May 1, 2007 4:04:17 AM

Good one.
May 1, 2007 4:11:15 AM

A previous poster said to avoid integrated graphics, and I'm wondering why. I get the feeling that this server is only going to be connected to a monitor for installation and maintenance tasks. From what I've read, most higher-end server boards have integrated video.

To the OP: I think any of the systems that have been sugested - the lowest of which was the X2 3800+, would easily handle the task you're looking at. The 3800+ should give you 3-3.5 times as much compute power as your current system. I have to think that where you want to spend the money is on hard drives/controller and memory, but it sounds like getting 2GB now with the option to add more later would be fine for you.

Rather than buying into massive overkill, I'd recommend getting the AMD X2 system and spending what's left over from your budget on other things that will improve your serving business, like a good UPS if you don't have power backup in place. Since the server will be running constantly, make sure you get a good PSU with active power factor correction and a high (80% or better) effiiciency rating. The electricity savings in the long run will more than pay for the expense of the better PSU.
a c 102 à CPUs
May 1, 2007 4:28:06 AM

Quote:
A previous poster said to avoid integrated graphics, and I'm wondering why. I get the feeling that this server is only going to be connected to a monitor for installation and maintenance tasks. From what I've read, most higher-end server boards have integrated video.


You're correct. Many are run headless and administered over ssh, VNC, or RDP and only have a monitor and keyboard attached for installation.

Quote:
To the OP: I think any of the systems that have been sugested - the lowest of which was the X2 3800+, would easily handle the task you're looking at. The 3800+ should give you 3-3.5 times as much compute power as your current system. I have to think that where you want to spend the money is on hard drives/controller and memory, but it sounds like getting 2GB now with the option to add more later would be fine for you.

Rather than buying into massive overkill, I'd recommend getting the AMD X2 system and spending what's left over from your budget on other things that will improve your serving business, like a good UPS if you don't have power backup in place. Since the server will be running constantly, make sure you get a good PSU with active power factor correction and a high (80% or better) effiiciency rating. The electricity savings in the long run will more than pay for the expense of the better PSU.


A good PSU is a must, so is a UPS. So is a spare HDD for your system if a disk dies.
May 1, 2007 4:52:29 AM

Quote:
A previous poster said to avoid integrated graphics, and I'm wondering why. I get the feeling that this server is only going to be connected to a monitor for installation and maintenance tasks. From what I've read, most higher-end server boards have integrated video.


You're correct. Many are run headless and administered over ssh, VNC, or RDP and only have a monitor and keyboard attached for installation.

True, however, most use a discrete IGP, often the same ancient ATI Rage as found on the mobo in my sig. It has its own ram (8 MB), and doesn't communicate with the system memory. That's a big difference as compared to today's desktop IGPs...

Why has no one mentioned registered memory? If this is a server where up-time matters, you're gonna want registered ram.
May 1, 2007 5:04:04 AM

Quote:
Why has no one mentioned registered memory? If this is a server where up-time matters, you're gonna want registered ram.


Why is thiis the case? I'm not familiar with registered memory. I've been aware of it's existance, but not what it's benefits are. Friends of mine and myself have had desktop-based servers running 24/7 for very long periods without so much as a reboot. One of my friends crossed the year mark a couple months ago. All this was with regular DDR or DDR2 memory.
May 1, 2007 5:39:34 AM

a
Quote:
Why has no one mentioned registered memory? If this is a server where up-time matters, you're gonna want registered ram.


Why is this the case? I'm not familiar with registered memory. I've been aware of it's existence, but not what it's benefits are. Friends of mine and myself have had desktop-based servers running 24/7 for very long periods without so much as a reboot. One of my friends crossed the year mark a couple months ago. All this was with regular DDR or DDR2 memory.

Ah, I misspoke a bit, when I mentioned registered, I should have also stated ECC, as they are not the same thing, although commonly found together on memory modules. The whole "registered" part of memory is to be able to use many sticks of ram on the mobo without over taxing the voltage supplied by the memory controller, explaining why mobos with 8 or so memory slots almost always require registered (aka buffered) memory.

As for the ECC part, non-ecc memory cannot correct any errors that may arise (soft errors) in the reading/writing of information. ECC typically can correct 1 bit errors and detect 2 bit. Although non-ECC modules really only throw an error every once in a blue moon, over a prolonged period of time the culmination these soft errors can amount to an OS crash. Once again, this is all pretty relative, but you won't find many super computers or massive web server cluster using anything but ECC memory for a reason.
May 1, 2007 1:08:24 PM

If you're going to be using a lot of hard drives I would suggest getting a decent size case with plenty of drive bays and which also takes loads of 120mm fans. The large fans help to cool the system easily and quietly.
You don't need a Server case but a good quality MIDI tower would suffice. The only one I've used recently is an Antec P180 which I can highly recommend. It's fairly expensive and doesn't come with a power supply so you can choose your own.
Ignore the people suggesting 500W+ power supplies, they are a little one track minded. A Core 2 Duo system at 3 GHz with 1 drive and an entry level GPU consumes ~150W at load. That's 150W AC which equates to ~120W DC; power supplies are rated for DC output. Seasonic S12s have served me well recently and you can buy a 430W version fairly cheaply.
a b à CPUs
May 1, 2007 1:11:19 PM

I suggested avoiding integrated because I'm used to desktops where an integrated GPU can use up to 384MB of system RAM. I didn't realize that a good server mobo had dedicated VRAM.
May 1, 2007 2:18:09 PM

Quote:
I suggested avoiding integrated because I'm used to desktops where an integrated GPU can use up to 384MB of system RAM.

You can usually set the limit in the BIOS to much lower than this. Also, if you aren't playing games surely the system will use hardly any RAM for graphics!
May 1, 2007 3:24:44 PM

Thanks for all thhe input! I purchased a e6700 last nigth (best within the price range) the next jump was almost double for the Q6600 so I didn't feel it was justified. I know its bigger then necessary but should last me a little longer (I hope) before the next required upgrade/replacement.

I also went with 2GB of ram as they didn't have any 4gb sticks and I really didn't need thhe extra right now (i hope).

and I also got 2 - 500 gig drives for mirroring. and a 1100 va UPs as I had a little extra coin and it sure won't hurt to have. But I still need to get a replacement hard drive.

So last night I put it all together, took for ever, but I don't build machines for a living. Still was fun.

So now I have hardware issues / OS install issues... perhaps a new thread would be best for that. (check for new thread).
May 1, 2007 4:31:31 PM

If you start a new thread on that, put up a link here.

For the RAM: by 2GB do you mean 2x1GB? I ask because you said you didn't get 4GB because they didn't have any 4GB sticks, which made me think you're looking to use just one DIMM for now. There is a performance boost using dual-channel configuration, which requires two sticks of RAM, generally a matched pair but I've heard the newer chipsets are pretty good at getting dual-channel to work with assymetrical DIMMs.
!